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Author Topic: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded  (Read 135795 times)
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I need saves to test encounters in GS Reloaded!

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« Reply #495 on: February 13, 2019, 04:54:43 PM »

Quote
Golden Boots. What happened to them? They have lower defense value than the Safety Boots
Quote
Guardian Ring is kind of moot
My bad. Forgot to edit the safety boots and guardian ring. The former should have 4 defense, the ring should boost hp by 5

Quote
Aqua Jellies on Piers' Boat are honestly too strong
minibosses, can't be compared to random encounters

Quote
Aqua Hydra is too RNG based. If it uses Raging Tides twice in the same turn
The chance of that happening is 2.56%

As for item classes, i might have found the solution: multiple copies of the current tiers to allow a different djinn progression.

With only 3 more slots i can allow item classes to grow by adding a new element per tier instead of keeping everything balanced.
For example the Necromancer with an elemental progression of Wind -> Fire -> Earth -> Water will require:

0-0-0-0 for base tier as usual
3-3-0-0 jupiter and fire for the first tier
3-3-3-0 jupiter fire earth for the second
3-3-3-3 everything for max as usual

In addition to the usual 1-1-1-1 and 2-2-2-2 for tier 1 and 2

This means that the first tier can be accessed by jenna and sheba just like a dual elemental class (basically an item based inquisitor line for both)
While second tier can be accessed by jenna sheba or felix just like a tri elemental class (heretic/ninja line for jenna/felix, no equivalent for sheba as 3 mars 3 venus doesn't exist for her)
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« Reply #496 on: February 13, 2019, 05:08:21 PM »

Yikes. RNG really wasn't in my favor against the Aqua Hydra, since it used Raging Tides three times in a row.

Huh. that's an interesting way to solve it, but it works. It'll be super nice to be able to use the Item Classes and still have a "full" party before Isaac's gang shows up.
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« Reply #497 on: February 13, 2019, 10:34:30 PM »

v1.73a (TLA only) is UP

Changelog:
Fixed Safety boots and Guardian Ring
Added elemental progression for item classes

What is elemental progression:
In addition to the usual djinn setup for item classes, it is also possible to go to a higher tier by giving 3 djinn of a certain element instead of the usual method of adding 1 djinn for each element

The elemental progression for the item classes are:

Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

As usual tier 0 doesn't require any djinn.
To go to to the first tier, you need 3 elemental levels on the first 2 elements of the progression.
For the second tier you need to add 3 djinn of the third element.
The last tier, as usual requires 3 el. levels on each element.

There is also another copy of tier 1 that is a copy of tier 2 with 1 el.level less for each element to ease the downgrade when summoning, cause for example if necromage ivan (3 earth 3 fire djinn) were to unleash a single fire djinn it would plummet immediately to tier 0 without this "special" tier.
It also allows characters of the third element to access the first tier by having 2 djinn each of the first 2 elements.

Why all this: cause it will be easier to use item classes in the midgame, since they are literally dual classes for tier 1 and tri-elemental classes for tier 2

This might sound convoluted but just looking at the elemental levels from the editor will explain better than i ever could.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 01:46:05 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #498 on: February 14, 2019, 12:48:42 AM »

Oh boy I'm loving this new Class LOL. The Tamer's Whip only works correctly for Sheba, oddly.

Guardian Ring still boosts Luck, but by +5 this time.

I'm not entirely sure what's happening in the 3rd screenshot, to be honest lol


* Golden Sun TLA Reloaded V1.73-0000.jpg (70.66 KB, 480x320 - viewed 144 times.)

* Golden Sun TLA Reloaded V1.73-0003.jpg (39.47 KB, 480x320 - viewed 152 times.)

* Golden Sun TLA Reloaded V1.73-0000 (1).jpg (96.7 KB, 480x320 - viewed 160 times.)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:52:14 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #499 on: February 14, 2019, 12:58:01 AM »

... are you sure you patched a clean rom?
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« Reply #500 on: February 14, 2019, 01:02:59 AM »

I patched over the previous version, which I hope is clean enough. I tried it on an untouched version to make sure it didn't have the same issue Version 1.73 had the first time it was put up, but didn't really do anything from there.

Pierrot works as intended and promotes to the 2nd Tier with 3 Djinn. The Safety Boots now give +4 Defense instead of +5, as intended. And like I said, Tamer's Whip works properly, but only for Sheba.
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« Reply #501 on: February 14, 2019, 01:12:27 AM »

I patched over the previous version
NEVER EVER do that. Clean = vanilla. This is 100% the reason why the guardian ring grants Luck +5 instead of hp+5.

Quote
The Tamer's Whip only works correctly for Sheba, oddly.
Also, please, you need to report issues better. Setting the clean rom issue aside (which is by far the most important thing), that line and the random screen with piers on a NPC class don't help at all.
1) Which djinn setup?
2) Does it happen with other classes and other items?
3) What did you do and what you were expecting? As in: situation before, situation after and how the after is different from the outcome you were expecting
4) Are you sure you understood the elemental progression correctly? (aka read the post with the changelog again)

All these questions need some kind of answer. Especially 3), since that's how every bug should be reported, not only class related ones
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #502 on: February 14, 2019, 01:34:37 AM »

Piers and Jenna are stuck with NPC unless I give them the standard 1 of each non-Mercury/Mars Djinn respectively. Felix escapes NPC with Jupiter Djinn, and Sheba with Venus Djinn (aside the standard way of promoting Item Classes).

Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.

I can't check with the Necronomicon right now, since I forgot to snag it before heading to Taopo, but I'll check it out later.

Oof... starting with a fresh ROM prolly means I gotta start AAALLLLL over again.... heck...

EDIT:
Never mind about starting all over. I figured out how to avoid that problem.

anyway, on to the Item Classes:
Pierrot for Felix, Jenna, and Piers is unchanged, only promoting to Jester with the same Djinn combos listed above. Sheba can promote to Jester with 2 Mercury + 2 Mars, but not with 3 Mercury or 3 Mars.

Trainer's Whip actually works now.
Piers promotes to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter, along with standard distribution for Item Classes.
Jenna only promotes to Wild Tamer with the standard distribution for Item Classes
Felix promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Jupiter, 2 Mercury + 2 Jupiter, and standard Item Class distribution.
Sheba promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Venus, 2 Venus + 2 Mercury, and standard Item Class Distribution.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:12:48 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #503 on: February 14, 2019, 02:32:03 AM »

Everything works as intended

Quote
In addition to the usual djinn setup for item classes, it is also possible to go to a higher tier by giving 3 djinn of a certain element instead of the usual method of adding 1 djinn for each element

The elemental progression for the item classes are:

Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

As usual tier 0 doesn't require any djinn.
To go to to the first tier, you need 3 elemental levels on the first 2 elements of the progression.
For the second tier you need to add 3 djinn of the third element.
The last tier, as usual requires 3 el. levels on each element.

From the bolded parts you can see the elements are specific, that's why i listed the progression for each class. You can't give 3 djinn of a random element and expect it to work.
To go up to tier one it's either 1-1-1-1 (the usual) or the new 3-3-0-0 or 2-2-2-0, where those numbers are the elemental levels for the elements in the same order as the progression for that class.

Long story short:
Quote
1) Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
2) Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
3) Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
4) Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
1) is obvious, as the requirement is 0-0-0-0
2) True for felix (earth is 4th), false for sheba. She can use 2-2-2-0 cause wind is third in the progression.
3) and 4) work as intended cause fire and water are first and second in the progression.

Jenna and Garet can't use elemental progression for Tamer cause Fire is the last element of the progression. The same will happen for Felix in Pierrot, or for Mia with the Necronomicon.

Also, to see the numbers and have a better understanding of the whole thing, use the editor as suggested in the post with the changelog. I can't stress this enough.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:43:33 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #504 on: February 14, 2019, 02:40:34 AM »

Alrighty. Though I find it odd that some promotions to Tier 2 happen with a combination of 2 Djinn of the first two elements in the Elemental Progression (e.g. Piers to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter), when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.

I don't know if the editor would work on mobile, and my access to a PC is inconsistent at best. Trial and Error along with actually getting the items is my best way of figuring things out, until I get my own PC.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:42:08 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #505 on: February 14, 2019, 02:44:44 AM »

when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.
Not at all. Elemental level =/= djinn. Each character starts with an elemental level of 5 in his own element.

Be sure to read again the other posts cause i probably edited them after you already answered.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 02:52:17 AM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #506 on: February 14, 2019, 02:50:56 AM »

Djinn add Elemental Levels though, right? because of that, I always figured they were synonymous in regards to classes.

either way, it doesn't really explain how 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter + 5 Mercury resulted in Tamer promoting to Wild Tamer.

EDIT
i'm an idiot and just now started reading posts you edited lol

Things make sense now. Thank you for being patient with my dumb butt and explaining it clearly. Happy
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:00:07 AM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #507 on: February 14, 2019, 10:56:56 AM »

Hello all!! I'm new here. I've been playing this mod for quite some time now and I've loved it you've done a wonderful job, congratulations! I'm currently entering the Western Sea. I have some really minor things to point out that could be fixed (I'm playing 1.71a so some of this may have already been changed, but it didn't look that way in the patch notes (I was going to comment on using Mud being too strong tho)):

  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not Sad I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  Jupiter marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  Mercury resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 Mercury Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; Jupiter resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus. It only becomes important in Jupiter Lighthouse, but by that point we've got better equipment, don't we? A possible fix for this could be to give the Hat some Agillity, since it can be used by everyone you can stick it on whoever is lagging behind. The Vest could have it's effect made stronger either by healing ~500 ST or 200 MT, or it could work like the Dragon Helm (I loved that one), instead of being an on-use healing bestowing a psynergy, either something offensive like Thunder Card or keep the ST healing
  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  Mars Resist +15  Mars Power +2PPrec).
  • I really liked your fix for Golden Boots to be +8 def +5 HPrec since they where way overpowered in vanilla, though I see that is gone in the latest patch to instead boost Luck. Is your intention to make them not-endgame-material? Are Dragon Boots strictly defensively superior now?
  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
I belive that's all for now. Thank you for making this wonderful game even more wonderful! Joy Joy
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« Reply #508 on: February 14, 2019, 02:57:13 PM »

Hello there, Maixpotter!
I can answer some of the things you mentioned.

  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not Sad I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor. You can also guesstimate where they're found by looking at their "levels" within his Monster Drop Changelog, and keeping the Order of Progression in mind (Piers' Boat -> Shrine of the Sea God -> Taopo Swamp -> Aqua Rock -> Gaia Rock -> Ankohl Ruins -> Treasure Island -> Tundaria Tower -> Champa -> Poseidon).

  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  Jupiter marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)

  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  Mercury resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 Mercury Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; Jupiter resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus.
I have the very same issues with the craftables. Tear Stone has very good options, with the Circlet being the least useful. the Stardust only has two good items, with the Stardust Ring not being valuable enough to warrant getting, and the Comet Mace just flat out being garbage. Meanwhile the Sylph Feather's items just aren't really worthwhile, with the Sylph Rapier only worth using if you're using Jenna as a Valkyrie.

  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  Mars Resist +15  Mars Power +2PPrec).
This isn't too different from the standard Lemuria/Tolbi Springs, honestly. They had plenty of trash items with a small pool of worthwhile items. Though the Floral Dress is the noteworthy stinker, since the previous Dress-Piece (Cocktail Dress) is FAR superior with its sizable MaxPP boost.

  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.

I hope I was able to help clear things up Happy

EDIT:
I checked the Spirit Ring and Stardust Rings to see if their value changed, but nope. Spirit Ring got a barely noticeable buff, so it's still just as valuable as before. Meanwhile the Stardust Ring is unchanged, meaning it's still trash.


* Golden Sun - The Broken Seal [patched]-0000.jpg (89.41 KB, 480x320 - viewed 133 times.)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:24:15 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #509 on: February 14, 2019, 03:56:13 PM »

Hi hi, thank you, you cleared up many things Happy

All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor.
Oh, nice. Guess I'll have to learn how to use that Happy Sweat Drop

Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)
Wow, I never knew this. That's cool.

This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.
Ohh, so it sends you to the last Sanctum you visited? I guess its there to escape from trap bugs. So it can be abused, right? for example I go to Yallam to forge something then save and through this I'll be back in the sactum in the Western Sea instantly?

Thanks a lot!!
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August 15, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Fox: Golden Sun Slacking Community = I like that, Misery! Perfect April Fools joke?
August 13, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey Atrius, long time no see!
August 12, 2019, 11:37:45 PM
Fox: (Someone else discovered that, not me.)
August 12, 2019, 11:33:42 PM
Fox: So um. It looks like abilties in the class editor are being put back in as a byte for GS1?
August 12, 2019, 08:02:58 PM
Fox: Also, it seems most of us have moved to the Discord. In case if you were wondering where the forums activity went. Maybe come by and check it out. But it is just a suggestion, you don't have to.
August 12, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Fox: I figured that was a possibility. If you are guesting, it is hard to know how frequently you check back. It's great to hear from you, though. :)   What have you been up to?  Is Forgotten Dreams still being worked on, or has that been cancelled? (I'd guess you don't have much time for it. It's been years since we've last heard about it.)
August 12, 2019, 12:48:12 AM
KingAmiti: Still great work Atrius :)
August 11, 2019, 06:45:03 PM
Atrius: This place was a HUGE part of my life, and even though I don't have the time that it really deserves to take care of it, I will love it forever, and never forget about it..
August 11, 2019, 05:16:34 PM
Atrius: If anyone wants to make a replacement site then go for it.  Although I plan to keep this place up for the foreseeable future, it isn't really maintained anymore.
August 11, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
Atrius: Sometimes he comes by and looks around without logging in.
August 08, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
Fox: Does Atrius still come here? He hasn't logged in since last year. Maybe it is time to create a replacement site so we can have our full encyclopedia... Then again, I'm too lazy. Especially to get all that done by myself. :/
July 06, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Salanewt: Oh, yeah there isn't an animation overhaul for GS1 sadly.
July 03, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
ryancaesar12345: GS2 Animation Overhaul w/ Baseline  ips patch in golden sun 1?
July 03, 2019, 12:03:06 AM
Salanewt: There actually is a Jupiter revive... if you're using the Animation Overhaul patch. I think Caledor made a standalone patch for GS1 too, but you'd have to ask him.
July 02, 2019, 07:34:13 AM
Fox: So like... (just a thought)...  If we designed a script to compare times for speedrunning something... goalChance represents stability (I think?) ; If it is 100%, answer results in infinite, which means you can't have 100% stability. (Meaning you'd basically be skipping all item drops/etc.) 
July 02, 2019, 07:06:08 AM
Fox: (I still want to make sure the equation is correct, though... as it did include some guessing.)
July 02, 2019, 07:04:47 AM
Fox: Was thinking .... tosses = ln(1-goalChance) / ln(1-chance) = "chance" being a single-toss percentage probability (0.00 - 1.00) , goal chance being if you did more tosses...   So that's an interesting logarithm.  Just came up with it after some research/thinking... and could maybe be useful for general use.
June 25, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
ryancaesar12345: jupiter revive animation any?
June 24, 2019, 08:05:17 AM
Fox: Such a patch would mean you need to be careful with item drops, coins, exp, etc. Because those things would then no longer be an infinite supply.  Whether or not one uses it depends on what they want to do with it.
June 24, 2019, 07:55:01 AM
Fox: (High enough being based on the area you are in.)

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