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[RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded

Started by Caledor, 22, December, 2016, 03:56:07 PM

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Average Wind Seer

I patched over the previous version, which I hope is clean enough. I tried it on an untouched version to make sure it didn't have the same issue Version 1.73 had the first time it was put up, but didn't really do anything from there.

Pierrot works as intended and promotes to the 2nd Tier with 3 Djinn. The Safety Boots now give +4 Defense instead of +5, as intended. And like I said, Tamer's Whip works properly, but only for Sheba.

Caledor

#501
Quote from: Average Wind Seer on 13, February, 2019, 08:02:59 PM
I patched over the previous version
NEVER EVER do that. Clean = vanilla. This is 100% the reason why the guardian ring grants Luck +5 instead of hp+5.

QuoteThe Tamer's Whip only works correctly for Sheba, oddly.
Also, please, you need to report issues better. Setting the clean rom issue aside (which is by far the most important thing), that line and the random screen with piers on a NPC class don't help at all.
1) Which djinn setup?
2) Does it happen with other classes and other items?
3) What did you do and what you were expecting? As in: situation before, situation after and how the after is different from the outcome you were expecting
4) Are you sure you understood the elemental progression correctly? (aka read the post with the changelog again)

All these questions need some kind of answer. Especially 3), since that's how every bug should be reported, not only class related ones

Average Wind Seer

#502
Piers and Jenna are stuck with NPC unless I give them the standard 1 of each non-Mercury/Mars Djinn respectively. Felix escapes NPC with Jupiter Djinn, and Sheba with Venus Djinn (aside the standard way of promoting Item Classes).

Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.

I can't check with the Necronomicon right now, since I forgot to snag it before heading to Taopo, but I'll check it out later.

Oof... starting with a fresh ROM prolly means I gotta start AAALLLLL over again.... heck...

EDIT:
Never mind about starting all over. I figured out how to avoid that problem.

anyway, on to the Item Classes:
Pierrot for Felix, Jenna, and Piers is unchanged, only promoting to Jester with the same Djinn combos listed above. Sheba can promote to Jester with 2 Mercury + 2 Mars, but not with 3 Mercury or 3 Mars.

Trainer's Whip actually works now.
Piers promotes to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter, along with standard distribution for Item Classes.
Jenna only promotes to Wild Tamer with the standard distribution for Item Classes
Felix promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Jupiter, 2 Mercury + 2 Jupiter, and standard Item Class distribution.
Sheba promotes to Wild Tamer with 3 Venus, 2 Venus + 2 Mercury, and standard Item Class Distribution.

Caledor

#503
Everything works as intended

QuoteIn addition to the usual djinn setup for item classes, it is also possible to go to a higher tier by giving 3 djinn of a certain element instead of the usual method of adding 1 djinn for each element

The elemental progression for the item classes are:

Acrobat: Fire - Water - Wind - Earth
Dragontamer: Earth - Wind - Water - Fire
Necromancer: Wind - Fire - Earth - Water

As usual tier 0 doesn't require any djinn.
To go to to the first tier, you need 3 elemental levels on the first 2 elements of the progression.
For the second tier you need to add 3 djinn of the third element.
The last tier, as usual requires 3 el. levels on each element.

From the bolded parts you can see the elements are specific, that's why i listed the progression for each class. You can't give 3 djinn of a random element and expect it to work.
To go up to tier one it's either 1-1-1-1 (the usual) or the new 3-3-0-0 or 2-2-2-0, where those numbers are the elemental levels for the elements in the same order as the progression for that class.

Long story short:
Quote1) Pierrot works normally, and changes everyone to Pierrot as intended.
2) Sheba and Felix only promote to Jester with the standard Djinn Spread for Item Classes
3) Jenna promotes to Jester with 3 Mercury, 2 Mercury and 2 Jupiter, and standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
4) Piers promotes to Jester with 3 Mars, 2 Mars and 2 Jupiter, and the standard Djinn spread for Item Classes.
1) is obvious, as the requirement is 0-0-0-0
2) True for felix (earth is 4th), false for sheba. She can use 2-2-2-0 cause wind is third in the progression.
3) and 4) work as intended cause fire and water are first and second in the progression.

Jenna and Garet can't use elemental progression for Tamer cause Fire is the last element of the progression. The same will happen for Felix in Pierrot, or for Mia with the Necronomicon.

Also, to see the numbers and have a better understanding of the whole thing, use the editor as suggested in the post with the changelog. I can't stress this enough.

Average Wind Seer

#504
Alrighty. Though I find it odd that some promotions to Tier 2 happen with a combination of 2 Djinn of the first two elements in the Elemental Progression (e.g. Piers to Wild Tamer with 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter), when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.

I don't know if the editor would work on mobile, and my access to a PC is inconsistent at best. Trial and Error along with actually getting the items is my best way of figuring things out, until I get my own PC.

Caledor

#505
Quote from: Average Wind Seer on 13, February, 2019, 09:40:34 PM
when it's stated clearly that at least Djinn 3 of the first element in line are needed to promote to Tier 2.
Not at all. Elemental level =/= djinn. Each character starts with an elemental level of 5 in his own element.

Be sure to read again the other posts cause i probably edited them after you already answered.

Average Wind Seer

#506
Djinn add Elemental Levels though, right? because of that, I always figured they were synonymous in regards to classes.

either way, it doesn't really explain how 2 Venus + 2 Jupiter + 5 Mercury resulted in Tamer promoting to Wild Tamer.

EDIT
i'm an idiot and just now started reading posts you edited lol

Things make sense now. Thank you for being patient with my dumb butt and explaining it clearly. :happy:

Maxipotter

Hello all!! I'm new here. I've been playing this mod for quite some time now and I've loved it you've done a wonderful job, congratulations! I'm currently entering the Western Sea. I have some really minor things to point out that could be fixed (I'm playing 1.71a so some of this may have already been changed, but it didn't look that way in the patch notes (I was going to comment on using Mud being too strong tho)):


  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not :sad: I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  :JupiterStar: marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  :MercuryStar: resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 :MercuryStar: Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; :JupiterStar: resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus. It only becomes important in Jupiter Lighthouse, but by that point we've got better equipment, don't we? A possible fix for this could be to give the Hat some Agillity, since it can be used by everyone you can stick it on whoever is lagging behind. The Vest could have it's effect made stronger either by healing ~500 ST or 200 MT, or it could work like the Dragon Helm (I loved that one), instead of being an on-use healing bestowing a psynergy, either something offensive like Thunder Card or keep the ST healing
  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  :MarsStar: Resist +15  :MarsStar: Power +2PPrec).
  • I really liked your fix for Golden Boots to be +8 def +5 HPrec since they where way overpowered in vanilla, though I see that is gone in the latest patch to instead boost Luck. Is your intention to make them not-endgame-material? Are Dragon Boots strictly defensively superior now?
  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
I belive that's all for now. Thank you for making this wonderful game even more wonderful! :heart: :heart:

Average Wind Seer

#508
Hello there, Maixpotter!
I can answer some of the things you mentioned.

Quote from: Maxipotter on 14, February, 2019, 05:56:56 AM

  • It's a pity we don't get clear info on most of the changes you made to items, monsters and drops because then we can't plan confidently on what to farm. For example: you say Cerberus drop the Virtuous Armlet, but Cerberus didn't even exist in vanilla, we don't know where to go look for them. Or maybe we go to Treasure Isle wanting to farm Turtle Dragons for the Storm Gear you said, but there aren't any Turtle Dragons there, and instead we find monsters that weren't there before like those Crabs and Dirges and we don't really know if it's worth farming them or not :sad: I do realize making a full list of monsters-positions-drops is a lot of work and you have more important things to do. I'm just saying it's a pity
All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor. You can also guesstimate where they're found by looking at their "levels" within his Monster Drop Changelog, and keeping the Order of Progression in mind (Piers' Boat -> Shrine of the Sea God -> Taopo Swamp -> Aqua Rock -> Gaia Rock -> Ankohl Ruins -> Treasure Island -> Tundaria Tower -> Champa -> Poseidon).

Quote from: Maxipotter on 14, February, 2019, 05:56:56 AM
  • Some weapons, like the Lightning Sword and the Blow Mace (I think), have an elemental affinity on attacks besides the Unleash. Is it possible to put a  :JupiterStar: marker somewhere in the Attack +xx line to show this? Or do you think this distintion is irrelevant?
Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)

Quote from: Maxipotter on 14, February, 2019, 05:56:56 AM
  • The low-tier craftables are somewhat unbalanced with 2 or 3 things being really useless:
  • Tear Stone is in a pretty good place with Pure Bracelet being the most desirable but the other options are good as well Cloud Wand, Wish Well Ring and Pure Circlet's Mercury resist being useful in all the sea, Aqua Rock, Tundaria and Poseidon and the ring.
  • But with Stardust you have Planet Armor, Luna Shield being really dominant, then maybe Astral Circlet (If you don't care for the  :MercuryStar: resist. Though Clarity Circlet is more powerful for Jupiter), then Comet Mace isn't really worth it since it gets replaced fast and Stardust Ring is a joke. Maybe if Comet Mace had at least 10 :MercuryStar: Power it could be considered an upgrade for Arcanist Sheba over Cloud Wand. Stardust Ring would have to be pretty much reworked
  • Sylph Feather is also pretty awful with Aerial Gloves being REALLY good, then Sylph Rapier being good, and both Floating Hat and Faery Vest being really weak; :JupiterStar: resist is mostly useless in the Eastern Sea with imporant enemies being Mercury, and some Mars and Venus.
I have the very same issues with the craftables. Tear Stone has very good options, with the Circlet being the least useful. the Stardust only has two good items, with the Stardust Ring not being valuable enough to warrant getting, and the Comet Mace just flat out being garbage. Meanwhile the Sylph Feather's items just aren't really worthwhile, with the Sylph Rapier only worth using if you're using Jenna as a Valkyrie.

Quote from: Maxipotter on 14, February, 2019, 05:56:56 AM
  • Also something simillar happens in the Lemuria Spring: The Glory Crown (hat +35 Def +6PPrec) is way superior than Clarity Circlet (+31 Def +6 Luck) even though Circlets are supposed to have greater Def than hats and usually have +MaxPP or some element. Also the Wild Coat (Clothing +36 Def +35 Agi) is better than the Floral Dress (+35 Def Sleep-on-use) and both aren't really that good compared to the earlier Muni Robe (+32 Def +12 MaxHP +4HPrec) or the later Dragon Robe (+36 Def +30  :MarsStar: Resist +15  :MarsStar: Power +2PPrec).
This isn't too different from the standard Lemuria/Tolbi Springs, honestly. They had plenty of trash items with a small pool of worthwhile items. Though the Floral Dress is the noteworthy stinker, since the previous Dress-Piece (Cocktail Dress) is FAR superior with its sizable MaxPP boost.

Quote from: Maxipotter on 14, February, 2019, 05:56:56 AM
  • I saw Average Wind Seer talk about "Sanctum Warping" but I couldn't find anything about it in-game or in this topic. What is this?
This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.

I hope I was able to help clear things up :happy:

EDIT:
I checked the Spirit Ring and Stardust Rings to see if their value changed, but nope. Spirit Ring got a barely noticeable buff, so it's still just as valuable as before. Meanwhile the Stardust Ring is unchanged, meaning it's still trash.

Maxipotter

Hi hi, thank you, you cleared up many things :happy:

Quote from: Average Wind Seer on 14, February, 2019, 09:57:13 AM
All this can be found by using the Golden Sun Editor.
Oh, nice. Guess I'll have to learn how to use that :happy: :Sweat:

Quote from: Average Wind Seer on 14, February, 2019, 09:57:13 AM
Fun fact: this is noted. Go into the Status Menu and press A until it shows the characters Inventory. Weapons that change attacks to an Elemental Attack will display the respective Elemental Star (as noted in the screenshot below)
Wow, I never knew this. That's cool.

Quote from: Average Wind Seer on 14, February, 2019, 09:57:13 AM
This has always been a hidden feature within the game, long before Caledor began this project. To use it, you press L + Start as you press A to select the save file you want to play while in the Title Menu Screen.
Ohh, so it sends you to the last Sanctum you visited? I guess its there to escape from trap bugs. So it can be abused, right? for example I go to Yallam to forge something then save and through this I'll be back in the sactum in the Western Sea instantly?

Thanks a lot!!

Average Wind Seer

Actually, you'll be sent back to Yallam's Sanctum. It warps you to the Sanctum of the last TOWN you visited, not the last visited Sanctum. It's more of an Emergency Escape for when you're deep in a dungeon, Felix doesn't have enough PP to cast Retreat, and you desperately need to fall back and heal up at an Inn. Or, in my case, cut the return trip from Tundaria back to Champa after having to go back to Tundaria because I forgot to snag the Center Prong of the Trident when I was there the first time lol

Maxipotter

Ooh, bummer, that trip to Yallam is so long and boring. It's good to know anyways.
Thank you!

Average Wind Seer

Once you get the Teleport Jewel from Mars Lighthouse, you can simply cast Teleport to warp to Yallam and back to the Town closest to where you want to go. Unfortunately, it's unlocked so late in the game that it's kinda pointless. :sad:

I don't really see a way to fix this since adding a new Psynergy to do the same thing will become redundant once you get Teleport, and giving Teleport earlier would give players access to further inside the Islet Cave and inside Yampi Desert Cave, which they shouldn't be going to until the end of the game.

Average Wind Seer

#513
I forgot just how good this mod is.
Booting up Dark Dawn and seeing all the bland, same-y classes, and Karis' basic attack doing twice the amount of damage from her Psynergy (Freeze Prism and the strongest tier in Plasma) reminded me of just how good and wonderful the Reloaded Mod is :heart:

I honestly don't think I can ever go back to playing base Golden Sun ever again lol.

This latest update is amazing, since I can now actually use Item Classes without being down a party member. The only downside to using all 3 Item Classes at once is that Piers is my only means of AoE healing until Felix (using the Tamer's Whip) can summon the Treant monsters lol. Though I'm still going to use Valkyrie Jenna in this run, so Acrobat will eventually be put away. Super excited to experience her buffs!

EDIT:
Hey, uhhh quick question.
Is Call Zombie supposed to cost 20PP? I checked with an earlier version and Call Zombie only cost 5PP then.

Maxipotter

Well DD is really bad. I wouldn't replay it even if there was a mod like this one to fix all the battle issues. The story and mazes are just too dumb and half the characters aren't even likeable. I don't really know what they were thinking when they did that trainwreck. :sad:

I was thinking about how cool Shuriken is being a multi-target EPA and how it would be interesting to have variations of it for other characters or elements. I was also thinking about how Dragon Helm bestowing Fire Breath is a really nice effect but it hardly ever is a good choice since only the warrior-type can equip it and they don't benefit all that much from it with their low PP, and mars power and Fire Breath's hitting side targets for super low damage. Finally, I was thinking about an argument you had about Fire Breath having little place in the Acrobat´s psynergy pool.

All three of these can be easily fixed by making Fire Breath a range 3 multiplier psynergy (Like Shuriken) instead of a Base Damage (Diminishing): This gives Fire Breath a separate identity in the Acrobat set. This makes Acrobat a more viable option for Piers (which ties in nicely with water being the second element in the progression), as well as helping Jenna (and Ivan) with short swords in a fury-type set. And Dragon Helm is now a desirable piece for any warrior not running Shinobi.

What do you think?

Average Wind Seer

DD is a guilty pleasure of mine, tbh :no:
I just really enjoyed playing it so much to the point where it's my second most replayed game ever (Chrono Trigger takes first place on that record), and I even solo'd 99% of the game and superbosses with Karis (Chaos Chimera is too strong for Karis to handle by herself)

That's actually a really neat idea for Fire Breath. I think it'd also be really nice for Dragontamer's Salamander-line, since you're only gonna have your warriors use this class anyway.

Speaking of Warriors, I found myself barely ever making a dent in Felix's or Piers' PP Pools unless I used their PP for healing, meanwhile Sheba and Jenna burn through their much larger PP Pools at an astounding rate. I noticed this to be the case due to Felix's and Piers' classes have a LOT of low cost Psynergies (8-9PP per cast) during the midgame, whereas Jenna and Sheba need to be tossing out Psynergies costing at least 16PP a pop to clear out trash mobs with the same power as the boys using their EPAs or basic attacks. This PP disparity gets even worse when you factor in Felix and Piers having the Luna Shields available to them LONG before you find any PP-Regen equipment for either girl. It's weird seeing the Warriors having drastically better PP longevity in battle than the Mages.

Also the Comet Mace is unbelievably bad. There's literally zero reason for it to even be in the game as it is. I suggest either removing it or reworking it into a Western Sea Mace.

Minor note, but I think something screwy happened with Instant Death unleashes. Within the normal game, it checks to see if the Instant Death lands before doing a damage roll, as noted in the TBS screenshot from the vanilla game. In Reloaded, it rolls damage first, then rolls to see if Instant Death lands, as shown in TLA Reloaded screenshot. I used the Assassin's Blade for both screenshots, and Ivan's & Jenna's set-up doesn't matter because it always happens like this in Reloaded.

Maxipotter

Well, Karis is one of the more likeable characters, I prefer Amiti tho. But I only played through it once after having played these two many times and I just felt insulted at every step.

At first I thought about the Tamer, but I didn't think Caledor would agree to that since Tamers get ST and MT heals, revive, many diferent EPAs and impact, with their MT damage being their weak spot. If you also gave them good MT damage it might be a bit too much.

Other possibilities would be a Mercury Shuriken for Piers' Archon class (since it only has Froth and lacks MT healing, revive and impact). This is IMO Piers' worst tri-elemental class and this change would greatly benefit it. And MAYBE for Jenna's Valkyrie (Replacing Cutting Edge that is somewhat redundant having Waterspout) though she does have both revive and impact and various other utility psynergy :/ what would you need to give up in order to have MT EPA?

Average Wind Seer

#517
I agree about Tamer, though it also has the Blue Dragon Psynergy for wider MT Psynergy, while its Salamander line stays a 3 Target MT Psynergy (i think).

I have to disagree about Archon being Piers' worst Tri-Elemental Class (that title goes to his Venus Dragoon class). It succeeds where original Valkyrie failed, in that its support spells worked together to minimize incoming physical damage, while Original-Valkyrie just has Attack and Defense buffs which nearly all other classes could do better.

If I were to change anything on Archon, it would be swapping Froth for the Jupiter or Mars Psynergy that's a "stage above" it (e.g. Bolt being the lowest tier and Plasma being 3rd highest tier). Any changes to Valkyrie would be replacing Beam for Gaia, Prism, or Cool. Any "high tiered" Psynergy that isn't the incredibly lame and boring Beam psynergy and still fits the theming of this class.

also here's a pointless fun fact:
Not sure if this was the case in vanilla, but at the entrance screen to Tundaria Tower, you can jump that gap from either direction (as noted in the screenshots below). so much for the visual effect of an upward slope lol

Maxipotter

Well, Piers' Holy Knight, just as the others' Paladin, is pretty straightforward, a highly durable healer and it's better at that than any other: Piers' superior natural bulk and PP, slightly higher HP and PP multiplier while having the same def and wrd, higher natural  :MercuryStar: Power and access to Remedy and Break all make him better than Felix, Isaac or Garet at the job. Off course there isn't much reason to run this when a lower durably healer can give stronger heals with a larger PP pool and still manage to not die, right?

So the correct way to use Archon is to just cast Guard-Ward-Guard-Ward? If you ask me it's better to have the defensive buffs on different characters so that you can get your defenses up in half the time. I still think giving it Mercury Shuriken would be a good idea, of course changing Froth to something like Tornado would complement this change further.


Average Wind Seer

#519
Archon doesn't have Ward? it has Guard and Dull/Liquifier, so physical damage barely hurts. Holy Knight's flaw is that its speed score is absolutely abysmal with nothing to compensate for it. It also has Heal instead of Wish, so the higher Mercury Power doesn't really mean squat.

EDIT:
nevermind what I said about Archon not having Ward. I never used it from this Class, so I had forgotten it even had it. my bad lol :Sweat: