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Author Topic: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded  (Read 93662 times)
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« Reply #555 on: March 01, 2019, 05:55:10 PM »

The Knight Greaves close the gap, but the Silver Greaves are... kinda pointless in my opinion. Jonin gets absolutely nothing from their Mercury Boost, and General would rather have the Knight Greaves. I guess Paladin benefits from them, but honestly why even bother with Paladin in this mod? Not to mention, both Warlord and Destroyer would much rather have Ninja Sandals for higher Unleash Rates.

Though for the sake of elemental power balance, I suppose that there really isn't much to be done here.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:16:37 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #556 on: March 02, 2019, 12:30:46 AM »

Hey there! I've been keeping track of all the work done in this website and, honestly, you guys are amazing.. From Rolina to Atrius and everyone else, thank you for keeping Golden Sun alive. I love this patch (this is my fav to be honest, I can't play vanilla anymore hehe) and I'm happy you keep updating it. I must confess I still do some tweaks for my gameplays (I hate it that items like Douse Drop and Frost Jewel become obsolete later on and you can't even remove them from inventory, for example). So I just turn them into some items that bestows useful battle psyenergies that I design myself (e.g. turning Douse Drop into Regen Drop, item that bestows the Regeneration psynergy).

Well, sorry for overextending myself. Your patch is great, congratulations. Keep it up.
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« Reply #557 on: March 02, 2019, 04:34:52 AM »

So now that I've reached the Western Sea and did some Sequence Breaking by going to Contigo first to empty out all of my Game Tickets, I have a couple things:

  • Golden Boots are now the 3rd Worst boots (Turtle and Leather Boots being the two worst). As I've stated a few times now, Luck just isn't worth investing in until you can break 40 Luck, which can only be feasibly reached by Angel Mia with all the Luck Boosting Mercury Djinn, Psychic Circlet, and Clotho's Distaff. This kinda defeats any reason to bother with activating the Thieves' Bonus Event back in TBS for a Password Transfer. On the flipside, the Fur Boots are now actually useful thanks to the HP Boost.
  • Brilliant Circlet and Floral Dress are direct downgrades from the Astral Circlet and Cocktail Dress respectively. the Brilliant Circlet only adds one singular point of Luck over the Astral Circlet and lacks the MaxPP Bonus. Floral Dress' effect is just awful garbage. Why bother with Sleep when Stun exists? Cocktail Dress effortlessly beats out the Floral Dress. This is a pretty considerable problem since the defense bonus from either armor piece isn't enough to justify losing the extra MaxPP from either previous piece.
  • What is Elementalist's Role? Incantrix and Fateweaver are strong Offensive Mages with some good supportive capabilities, but I can't tell if Elementalist is supposed to fall under the same vein or have a different role.
  • I know that MT Heals had their PP Cost drastically boosted and the healing boost from elemental power was nerfed to weaken Dual-Wishing Teams, however, with both nerfs in effect, Dual-Wishing is honestly kind of pressured on to the party. One Wisher will quickly deplete their PP Pool, and likely won't be able to heal enough HP when fighting bosses such as Doom Dragon or Dullahan. I think un-nerfing the healing bonus from Elemental Power will help alleviate the pressure to use Dual-Wishing, since it will better allow for one Wisher with encouraged smarter healing (as opposed to simply spamming MT Heals).

And here's a few ideas I've come up with:

  • Would it be possible to have the Douse Drop and Frost Jewel to bestow their entire Psynergy Lines, like the Sand Prince and Snow Queen Jewels in Dark Dawn? These would make them much more useful in TBS as it gives everyone but Mia a Base Damage Mercury Option they wouldn't normally have in a good number of their classes.
  • Give Jenna's Heretic a Venus Fume Psynergy and swap Punji with the Jupiter Psynergy closest in base power. This would give the Ker's Weight purpose and thus make sense for a Cursed Mage Build.
  • This is a pretty big one, but I thought about how to make the Rising Mace and the Silver Greaves more useful since Paladin/Holy Knight aren't worth using. The solution I came up with was scrapping Paladin/Holy Knight altogether and crafting Mage Classes to replace them. Since Jenna gets a Warrior Class in Valkyrie, I figured why not give a Mage Class to the guys? Paladin could be replaced by a Mercury Fateweaver with a Mercury Fume, Plasma, and Heal/Wish/Boon. Holy Knight could be replaced with a Mercury Heretic, with Mercury Fume, Tornado/Plasma, and Gaia/Punji. Naturally, these classes would likely have the lowest attack, defense, and HP multipliers of the tri-elemental classes, but boast the highest PP, Ward, and possibly Luck. This way they're not stepping on the toes of the Hybrid Classes, since those will be more durable and more versatile than a purely caster class.

That's about all I could think of for now. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on these.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, I just remembered that I found this weird text glitch. Sheba still changes to the Tamer class just fine when equipping it, and it only happens when she changes to Tamer specifically. I don't think I've seen this happen with her other classes, though. It's a minor and kinda funny glitch, so no worries if you can't fix it.


* Golden Sun TLA Reloaded V1.73a-0000.jpg (84.28 KB, 480x320 - viewed 28 times.)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:46:50 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #558 on: March 02, 2019, 07:55:13 PM »

Wind Seer:
You've been asking for a Venus Hagbone Mace to have extra Venus Power, but there already is Tungsten Mace (Crafted from Golem Core) that has 15  Venus Power, over Hagbone's 12 Jupiter Power. It does have lower atk (129 vs 143) but if you want it for casting it's good.

You don't like Paladin/Holy knight and I agree, persolnaly, I don't want to use them, but I don't think they are bad classes, they fit their theme very nicely. Also think that Cal rates Def and HP way higher than you or I do, and that is likely not going to change. I think the main issue with these classes is that there isn't really a place where they shine because all the enemies are similarly affected by physical attacks and psynergy attacks; If there was a boss (pre-reunion) that had UBER defense and low resistances (kinda like FF Flans) then you would want to have the guys heal and the girls be in offensive classes with Fume/ Punishment. Thing is if this boss was after reunion, you would probably go full mages.
Other than this you would need some boss with really high atk-based MT (high enough that it makes the mages die in one turn) so that you go full warriors with 2 of them wishing, but that would probably be hard to make work.
Still, it's not a bad strategy to have one of your double Wishing come from a low speed unit, since that way you would heal some of the damage the boss did in this turn, which could save someone. Ex: If the boss does 400dmg three times, its really significant if all of that comes at once (1200 would kill most) or it there is a wish in between (-400-400+500-400=700 final).

I agree that Golden Boots are underwhelming if you compare them to end-game gear, but since you get them so early in the game maybe we should be comparing them to the other alternatives available at that moment? It will be a strict upgrade for anyone using Leather Boots and will remain so through all Eastern Sea up until Contigo. Still, I don't agree that Luck is meaningless unless its capped and it's not true only Angel Mia can reach said cap.

On the Circlets and Dresses I agree completely.
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« Reply #559 on: March 02, 2019, 08:19:47 PM »

The Tungsten Mace is a bit too weak for my liking, but since the Knight Greaves give +10 Venus Power, I'm willing to let go of an Endgame Venus Mace.

The Paladin/Holy Knight aren't bad classes, per se, however they certainly are the least useful of the classes available to the Warriors. Due to how fast Attack scales upwards, Defense is kind of moot, and the rising number of Base Damage attacks the further you go in the game also renders Defense pointless. HP also scales up absurdly fast, which kind of make High HP Classes a bit redundant since they'll have super high HP regardless of their class.

A lot of the boots have been adjusted to where only the Monster Drop Boots/Shoes can be considered "endgame", so the Golden Boots are very lackluster of the available boots before the Ninja Sandals and Knight & Silver Greaves are available. It's not exactly any strong point to be better than the Leather or Turtle Boots, especially considering the steps you need to take to unlock the Golden Boots.

Angel Mia is really the only one who will hit 40Luck at a reasonable level. At Lv.42, I just barely broke 40Luck with the aforementioned Djinn Set-up and equipment, whereas other characters would likely have to abandon some very strong endgame gear to come close to 40 Luck around that same level. 15 Luck on my Cursed Fury Ivan and Cursed Guardian Jenna was plenty enough for all of endgame.

EDIT:
To clarify what I mean by "defense being moot" in regards to the super fast Attack scaling, I never really found any reason to care about defense past getting the most recent armor piece, up until 300 Defense. Once you hit 300, it becomes more of a question of "which pieces of armor help boost my offense?" rather than "which pieces of armor give the highest yields of bulk?"

I don't know the damage formula, but I don't think defense has enough weight to really be worth investing past 300 or even using a Tank Class past that 300 benchmark. Not to mention it's often times better to go balls to the walls with offense to clear out the random encounters before they do too much damage to the party.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 11:21:52 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #560 on: March 06, 2019, 10:13:20 AM »

Quote
Golden Boots
It has a niche. Sounds good enough to me.

Quote
Brilliant Circlet and Floral Dress are direct downgrades from the Astral Circlet and Cocktail Dress respectively.
Astral Circlet doesn't add Luck. Floral Dress has always been the "dud" of the Lemurian fountain.

Quote
What is Elementalist's Role?
Elementalist is a Fateweaver toned down offensively with better support. It's the venus child of fateweaver and pure mage. AKA the best i could came up with for a venus mage bound to GS1.

Quote
I think un-nerfing the healing bonus from Elemental Power
I changed my mind three times while writing this answer. First was no cause i want elemental bonuses to be the same for offense and healing, then yes cause offense has the pp multiplier to compensate, then no again cause this would give an unfair and unfixable advantage to classes with less elements.

Quote
Would it be possible to have the Douse Drop and Frost Jewel to bestow their entire Psynergy Lines
impossible

Quote
Give Jenna's Heretic a Venus Fume Psynergy and swap Punji with the Jupiter Psynergy closest in base power. This would give the Ker's Weight purpose and thus make sense for a Cursed Mage Build.
Heretic is the jupiter tri-elemental.

Quote
since Paladin/Holy Knight aren't worth using.
You say that, also i'd rather boost Paladin and Holy Knight than scrap them, seeing how unique they are.


Quote
Oh yeah, I just remembered that I found this weird text glitch. Sheba still changes to the Tamer class just fine when equipping it, and it only happens when she changes to Tamer specifically.
Pics don't help me... i need details to replicare that. How many and which types of djinn did she have equipped?

Quote
Angel Mia is really the only one who will hit 40Luck
I'm assuming you know this false cause any other caster with access to a 130% Luck class can do the same.

Quote
I don't know the damage formula, but I don't think defense has enough weight to really be worth investing past 300 or even using a Tank Class past that 300 benchmark
There are no benchmarks in the damage formula. It's just a subtraction.

Quote
clear out the random encounters
why would you care about them? literally anything works... it's against bosses that you have to actually think about your class/gear setup
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« Reply #561 on: March 06, 2019, 04:27:45 PM »

It has a niche. Sounds good enough to me.
a niche one would rarely use. Its previous niche of being part of an HP Regen Tank armor set was honestly more useful, in my opinion.

Quote
Astral Circlet doesn't add Luck. Floral Dress has always been the "dud" of the Lemurian fountain.
That's my bad with the Astral Circlet, but it doesn't change the fact that the Brilliant Circlet is a direct downgrade, especially considering it comes right after a Boss where the luck boost might actually be useful. Not to mention that simply brushing aside the Floral Dress' blindingly obvious flaw like that just seems lazy to me.

Quote
I changed my mind three times while writing this answer. First was no cause i want elemental bonuses to be the same for offense and healing, then yes cause offense has the pp multiplier to compensate, then no again cause this would give an unfair and unfixable advantage to classes with less elements.
That would honestly benefit them, since it would give more reason to use Dual and Mono-Elemental classes instead of just slapping on tri-elemental classes.

Quote
Heretic is the jupiter tri-elemental.
The Ker's Weight really doesn't have much use on Guardian by being Cursed, when Guardian would want PP Regen instead of Cursed Gear. And as it stands, Guardian is the only one who benefits from it. Un-cursing it and making the Lachesis' Rule or the Atropis' Rod the Cursed Staff is really the only course of action I can think of to make Ker's Weight worth using, given the current classes.

Quote
You say that, also i'd rather boost Paladin and Holy Knight than scrap them, seeing how unique they are.
Considering that defense doesn't have enough weight for the ~30 defense loss going from Chaos Lord to Jonin to mean anything, Paladin's/Holy Knight's tanky roles don't have much use. Not to mention, like I said earlier, high HP classes are kind of redundant what with how high HP skyrockets. If you want these classes to be relevant, then I suggest nerfing everyone's overall HP scores and tweaking the damage formula so a 30 Defense loss does have a significant impact.


Quote
Pics don't help me... i need details to replicare that. How many and which types of djinn did she have equipped?
Given that she's a Savant, and I stated that I took that after "sequence breaking" and going straight to Contigo after Lemuria, I was hoping it was obvious she had 7 Mercury Djinn.

Quote
There are no benchmarks in the damage formula. It's just a subtraction.
300 Defense is about where endgame randoms deal less than 200 damage with normal attacks (if I remember right), and given how absurdly high your HP scores will be at that point (800-900+), anything dealing less than 200 to the party isn't worth caring about.

Quote
why would you care about them? literally anything works... it's against bosses that you have to actually think about your class/gear setup
Considering random encounters can actually kill you if you're careless or force you to deplete huge amounts of PP, you'll tend to favor classes that can deal with random encounters quickly. Against most bosses, any extra defense past 300 or so is moot either due to the bosses having sky high attack scores, or due to them using base damage attacks. Again, tweaking the damage formula so defense actually does matter past 300 or so, or simply giving higher defense to armors and the character's innate defense scores, will easily change this matter.

EDIT:
I'm looking at v1.73a via Atrius' editor, and holy moley are these modifier values right? for example, it shows Archon with 390% HP, 330%Atk, 330%Agility, 300%MaxPP, 300%Defense, and 200% Luck.

are all of these blank slots shown able to be filled? because if so, then there's plenty of room for new items, some psynergies, and maybe like one or two classes. I personally would like to see the 50PP Recovery item from Dark Dawn to show up here and be buyable, so we have a reason to actually use the money we get (along with Mountain Waters being buyable in the Eastern Sea).
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:57:50 PM by Average Wind Seer » Logged
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« Reply #562 on: March 07, 2019, 12:23:06 AM »

you need to halve them. or just look at the class doc.
as for items/psy, i lack icons. for classes, just no. we already discussed the 4th item class
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« Reply #563 on: March 07, 2019, 02:05:00 AM »

I really don't care about a 4th Item Class at this point. I was just noting that given the number of blank slots, there's room for one or maybe two classes.

aren't Punishment, Heal, and Boon recolors of pre-existing icons? (Ray line flipped upside-down, Wish/Aura, and Cure/Ply respectively) If so, couldn't you recolor some other item icon (like maybe the Mint item?) for an equivalent to Dark Dawn's Ginseng? Having something to bridge the gap between Mountain Waters and Psy Crystals, like Corn did for Herbs and Nuts, would be very nice, especially if we can freely buy them.
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« Reply #564 on: March 08, 2019, 11:46:10 PM »

aren't Punishment, Heal, and Boon recolors of pre-existing icons?
No recolors. I have a fixed number of slots, each different icons takes 1 (can easily be seen from the editor).
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« Reply #565 on: March 11, 2019, 01:25:05 AM »

hey so I've got a weird question. i experienced something.... odd. i apologies in advance if its a dumb question lmao. its not a problem it just confused the hell out of me so i literally made an account to ask this question lmfao! it bothered me that much yes! :P not sure if its hack related or base game related but 2 of the djinnis had swapped locations for me. to be specific Mud Venus Djinni and Chill Mercury Djinni in the lost age. Chill Mercury Djinni is supposed to be encountered on the world map in southern gondowan and Mud Venus Djinni in gabomba catacombs. but i encountered Mud Venus Djinni on the over-world instead in Chills Mercury Djinni location, and Chill in Muds location. did you swap them around in the hack or is that something that can happen in the base game if you go djinni hunting as soon as you get to gondowan? i'm not crazy i sware! lmao i looked up 20 million different guides and found screenshots of Chill being encountered in southern gondowan. I've played through both games an uncountable amount of times and I've never seen this before so i naturally assumed it was hack related. if its base game related its such a minor thing that i would wager people just simply haven't noticed this happening before. and i'm curious what the point of such a thing would even be if its hack related. again i know this is a weird question but its bothering me lots and making me feel like I've gone mad or something :P Lmao

by the way you've done an excellent job with this, really spiced up the games and after 50 billion playthroughs it was sorely needed for me :P thanks loads!
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« Reply #566 on: March 11, 2019, 01:59:36 AM »

Hack related

http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2779.msg47868;topicseen#msg47868
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Djinn:
Mud and Chill swapped places
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Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
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Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

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« Reply #567 on: March 11, 2019, 02:06:35 AM »


ahh thanks okay. i'm not crazy after all!! :P lol probably should read through all these pages first before making that comment but thats such an odd thing to change. i'm curious what the reasoning behind it is
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« Reply #568 on: March 11, 2019, 02:12:22 AM »

I used the search feature to find that post, by the way. (Use the search feature while in this topic so you only get results from this topic.)

Also, the swap is mentioned in the first post of this topic too. (Missed it at first.)

Quote
Early Game Djinn Imbalance
When Piers joins you end up with 2/3/3/5 Ve/Ma/Ju/Me Djinns. Swapping Mud with Chill changes the distribution to a much more manageable 3/3/3/4.


Trivia/FYI:
I see the grammar error is common...

Djinni = singular
Djinn = plural

And the game always starts the word with a capital letter.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 02:17:48 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #569 on: March 11, 2019, 02:24:32 AM »

I used the search feature to find that post, by the way. (Use the search feature while in this topic so you only get results from this topic.)

Also, the swap is mentioned in the first post of this topic too. (Missed it at first.)

Quote
Early Game Djinn Imbalance
When Piers joins you end up with 2/3/3/5 Ve/Ma/Ju/Me Djinns. Swapping Mud with Chill changes the distribution to a much more manageable 3/3/3/4.


Trivia/FYI:
I see the grammar error is common...

Djinni = singular
Djinn = plural

And the game always starts the word with a capital letter.

ahh okay yeah that makes a tonne of sense actually i was always bothered by that in the base game thanks (: hopefully i wont have any other dumb questions lol but if i do ill make sure to use search first :P and i always thought the plural AND singular of Djinni was just.... Djinni :P good to know lol :P not that it matters a whole lot lmao.
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Cbox
March 04, 2019, 08:45:44 PM
Fox: Aw.  I kind of want to suggest dressing up in a banana costume.  No wait, that's a bad idea.
March 04, 2019, 04:24:10 AM
Average Wind Seer: *angry gorilla noises that roughly translates to "Stay the [redacted] off my island and don't touch my [redacted] bananas"*
March 04, 2019, 03:06:07 AM
Fox: Gosh. This is like playing whack-a-mole! What's taking you so long with the bananas?! :D
February 28, 2019, 10:20:28 PM
Fox: And that other guy I thought for sure I saw a moment ago.... maybe he left again.
February 28, 2019, 10:16:29 PM
Fox: :O Wha-? I guess you didn't bring an army? If you plan on bringing a bunch, I would have suggested recruiting more people. Like me.
February 28, 2019, 09:57:15 PM
Average Wind Seer: I just reached the Island, but I'm planning on getting as many bananas as I ca- OH GOD!!! OH NO HE'S GOT ME!!! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!! AAAAAAHHH!!! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOO-!! *angry gorilla noises are heard as audio fades to static*
February 28, 2019, 09:13:45 PM
Fox: Huh. I didn't know you like going on adventures, that sounds interesting. How many bananas are you bringing?
February 28, 2019, 02:32:28 AM
Average Wind Seer: a brilliant plan. I'll go get the bananas from that seemingly uninhabited island with a large sign with the letters "D.K." written on it
February 28, 2019, 02:19:23 AM
Fox: I have an idea. If it turns out they love bananas, we can get some more as bait to keep them here?
February 27, 2019, 03:00:14 AM
Average Wind Seer: They consumed so much of the banana that only the essence of the peel remained TT^TT
February 27, 2019, 02:17:50 AM
FoxYou don't see it in the trash can over there?  Maybe that was someone else's.  .... Wait, Essence of Banana Peel?
February 27, 2019, 12:06:56 AM
Average Wind Seer: nope, that's just Essence of Banana Peel that they left behind :(
February 26, 2019, 11:39:52 PM
Fox: That's unfortunate.  I think they left the peeling for you.  :/
February 23, 2019, 05:18:08 AM
Average Wind Seer: .... yes.... I was gonna eat that banana....
February 23, 2019, 02:47:39 AM
Fox: steal*
February 23, 2019, 02:47:31 AM
Fox: Did they still your banana?
February 22, 2019, 02:32:19 AM
Average Wind Seer: hecc my ba- oh snap there they go :/
February 21, 2019, 10:14:10 PM
Fox: Shh... Don't scare them away.
February 21, 2019, 07:20:30 AM
Average Wind Seer: shocking, isn't it
February 21, 2019, 07:06:58 AM
Luna_blade: holy moley 4 users online

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