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Author Topic: [RELEASE] Golden Sun Reloaded  (Read 267663 times)
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« Reply #760 on: 10, July, 2020, 07:09:46 AM »

That's fair and sound. Other random ideas I've had, which I am aware will have a significant impact on gameplay / difficulty:

- Regarding information on weapons: Are the element indicators (Venus Mercury Mars Jupiter) treated like a character in-game? Can they be added to the names of weapons without causing bugs? For example "Venus Gaia Blade"

- The last tier of non-artifact equipment (Great Sword etc.) is available fairly mid-way through TLA, in fact right after getting Piers's boat. This means that from that point onwards all equipment upgrades are from artifacts. Would it be possible to add larger gaps to the non-artifact equipment so that Long Sword, Battle Mace etc. become available after the reunion with stats and coin cost that match artifact equipment at that point?

- Slightly tied to the above, coins lose their "role" as a resource that we have manage and make choices about how we spend it fairly midway through the game too, since we no longer spend them on anything other than sleeping at the inn, rebuying a piece of equipment or for crafting items in Yallam. There are 2 ways to extend their significance: (a) increase buy value of all items or (b) reduce sell value of all items.

- Is there a way to know what item is going to be crafted from the blacksmith in Yallam without having to go out to the world then return and talk to his wife (and of course without viewing the emulator memory :p )? I am not asking fpr RNG manipulation to always get a desired item, simply an indicator of what he's going to create since we know that the item is decided the exact moment we hand over the material.

- In v1.77 patch notes you mention that you have reduced average grouping of enemies by 0.10 in the part before getting Piers. Is it possible to add a Psynergy / Item that does the opposite, ie. one which dynamically increases average grouping of enemies, based on if the player wants to use it? Or is it something static? Similarly, is there a way to implement a Lure psynergy, one which has the same effect as Lure Cap, without having to "sacrifice" a helmet spot for it?
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« Reply #761 on: 10, July, 2020, 07:55:46 PM »

-I don't think you can add anything in the names or descriptions without it backfiring somewhere. The only reasonable solution would be to make all artifact weapons have the same attribute as their unleash so that you can check it in the status -> equipment page, which I am not against. But I agree with Caledor, there's a lot of information that you would want to know about the equipment and you can't get all of it in game, so you always end up going to the docs anyway. Besides, how often do you rely on unleashes before end-game? When is risking a 30% unleash better than casting an EPA or Djinn?

- About the coins issue, Caledor has said in the past that increasing the buy prince is not a good solution since you sell them back eventually and get most of the gold back, because sell price is 75% of buy price. I don't know if this percentage can be lowered, getting it to 60% would make coins a far more valuable resource, but it would mostly make the beginning and mid game more challenging, once you stop buying regular equipment and start finding lots of artifact gear you just stop spending.

- AFAIK Lure can´t be made into a psynergy because the effect on the Lure Hat is picked from a completely different list than utility psynergy. After reunion you can wear the Lure Hat on some back party member to increase the encounters without losing gear on the front party. The only way to implement it before reunion would be to give that same effect to some other piece of gear, though that would make the Lure Hat not really worth sending over
« Last Edit: 10, July, 2020, 07:57:33 PM by Maxipotter » Logged
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« Reply #762 on: 11, July, 2020, 03:06:20 PM »

I noticed that Nurse's Cap can be used out of combat, to heal a party member for 70hp, but Spirit Ring (heals group for 80hp) cannot. Could Spirit Ring be changed to work out of combat too?
I will check about the behaviour of the rest of on-use items as I acquire them.

-=EDIT=-
I just reached Poseidon, and I'm stuck again. Being the first boss that acts 3x per turn, it's natural that incoming damage should be approximately 50% higher than the previous boss (Avimander), but there's another factor that makes him unfair.
The unfairness comes from the fact that he often uses Ocean Fist as 2nd action to bring a party member to 1HP, then follow up with Watery Grave or Typhoon Blow as 3rd action to kill that member. There could be a way to prevent that if we could reliably have an AoE healer who is very slow so as to heal between 2nd and 3rd actions, but the slowest I have available is Felix at slightly over 120 Agility with 4 Mercury djinn on and Turtle Boots, which makes him act between 1st and 2nd of Poseidon's actions.
Alternatively, Poseidon could be given higher Agility so that it is possible to get a character to act between his 2nd and 3rd actions.

-=2nd EDIT=-
Poseidon has access to Ply Well to heal for 250HP, but Orochi has access to Potent Cure for 567HP. At the same time Orochi is fought 2-4 levels lower, and also has 30HP/round regen. Maybe give Poseidon Pure Ply?

-=3rd EDIT=-
Poseidon't Counterrush is not a priority action? I got to use Trident and Serpent Fume on him before he used it.

-=4th EDIT=-
Poseidon down. 3rd boss in a row where in order to defeat I had to spam Summons. Psynergy and Unleashes still do not reach the effectiveness of Summons.
« Last Edit: 13, July, 2020, 12:20:21 PM by Dark Mits » Logged
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« Reply #763 on: 13, July, 2020, 06:59:39 PM »

WOW, you beat Poseidon in Hard Mode? Kudos to you! That guy would stomp most players.
Giving him Pure Ply might be a bit too much. Imagine him healing 750+ on action. One cast is enough to cover most or all of your damage that turn and get 2 more attacks on your guys, also with 3 actions that's potentially 2250+ on one turn O_O Unless it's a very rare cast, I don't know the % rates

About on-use items, Spirit Ring used to be super OP since it healed for 160hp party wide and if used out of combat it would never break, so Caledor nerfed the healing and the out of combat use, it's still a useful item though. The same thing happens with the Unicorn Ring. I don't know why some on-use items break if used out of combat and some don't, that might be a bug on the base game that we can't fix with our editor. If they were usable out of combat it would make their respective psynergies useless.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-

Considering you go there (or at least you can go there) right after reunion, don't you think the second half of Treasure Island's loot is overtuned? I mean, Iris Robe, Caladbolg, Triton's Ward, Clotho's Distaff, Dark Matter. It's all stronger than what you get in Magma Rock or Mars Tower even though you can get it first. And the enemies there are not so hard that you should first go do Mars Lighthouse either, I could farm them with my lvl 31 Isaac's party getting the Djinn kill on everyone in the second turn and using the second party only for heals.

It should either:
a) Have weaker loot more in line with Magma Rock and Mars Lighthouse, move the better pieces to Mars Lighthouse or other endgame dungeons
or
b) Have way stronger enemies that prevent you from going there (or at least makes it somewhat harder)


Maybe the balancing philosophy post-reunion needs to be addressed. Before reunion balancing most fight to last 2-3 turns is good, because if they were longer you'd run out of PP early and wouldn't be able to complete the dungeon. However post-reunion you get a lot of benefits
Spoiler for Hidden:
not just 4 more characters, but new loot options and more importantly Djinn reserves that allow you to have the front 4 in their ideal classes for mobs and the back 4 in any less-than-ideal class that can heal. The back party recovers PP passively from walking and PP/t from gear, and group-wide heals affect all 8 out of combat
Fights should be more challenging (4~ turns) that way you are swapping regularly. Else you just forget the other party even exists and go on playing with your favourite 4
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« Reply #764 on: 13, July, 2020, 09:46:33 PM »

WOW, you beat Poseidon in Hard Mode? Kudos to you! That guy would stomp most players.
Yes, the tactic was:
1) Start with 2 djinn of each element (and on each character) on standby so as to have 4 rank-2 summons available at the start: 2x Megaera, 1x Ramses, 1x Nereid. Nereid was summoned by Felix (Class: Fearless for Wish) to buff Wish for a few rounds, Ramses by Jenna (Class: Master Miko for Heal Well) to buff Heal Well for the same reason.
2) On each subsequent round have Sheba use a Fire Djinn (Kindle / Reflux / Spark) and Piers a Jupiter Djinn (Ether / Haze).
3) Summon Megaera with Jenna if she doesn't need to heal (Jenna has always first action on every turn) or with Sheba if she needed. Even after Poseidon's Break it was good 700+ damage.
4) Felix Wish Well on every round
5) Piers would take up summoning Megaera if the other 2 couldn't or if not enough Djinn on standby then cast Nature Boon on most wounded member.
6) Break the above actions if anyone needs to revived (Sheba, Felix and Jenna all have Reviving Psynergy and Piers holds all Waters of Life). I had about 10-12 deaths during combat.
7) Characters at lvl31. I know that it is higher than expected. I'd say that being 10%-20% ahead in levels compared to Normal Mode is a good enough guideline for Hard Mode for early-mid game, especially when that allows you to unlock the next rank of Psynergy.

Giving him Pure Ply might be a bit too much. Imagine him healing 750+ on action. One cast is enough to cover most or all of your damage that turn and get 2 more attacks on your guys, also with 3 actions that's potentially 2250+ on one turn O_O Unless it's a very rare cast, I don't know the % rates
This is true, especially since he casts Ply Well a lot more often than Orochi casts Potent Cure. I also don't know if it's part of the AI or again RNG being RNG, but Ply Well was only used as 3rd action in a turn, similar to how Break was only used as 3rd action, so that limits Poseidon to max of 250HP/round.

About on-use items, Spirit Ring used to be super OP since it healed for 160hp party wide and if used out of combat it would never break, so Caledor nerfed the healing and the out of combat use, it's still a useful item though. The same thing happens with the Unicorn Ring. I don't know why some on-use items break if used out of combat and some don't, that might be a bug on the base game that we can't fix with our editor. If they were usable out of combat it would make their respective psynergies useless.
That explains it then. So far I like using Nurse's Cap when out of combat, even if it means "saving" only 20PP worth of healing till it breaks (about 4-8 uses). Healing Ring seems to break after 2-4 uses when used in combat, but that's still 1000HP+ total party recovered per repair (about 70-100PP)
My general way of thinking is that items are supposed to be (weaker) substitutes of magic that have 0 resource cost but limited number of uses plus additional cost which acts as money sink, and also take up inventory space (which then forces the player to decide what items to purchase and at what quantity).


Regarding Treasure Isle, I vote for
Quote
b) Have way stronger enemies that prevent you from going there (or at least makes it somewhat harder)
Star Magician has the fame of being the easiest of the secret bosses, but that could be "fixed" with the random encounters "softening" the party up a bit before the actual encounter.

Maybe the balancing philosophy post-reunion needs to be addressed. Before reunion balancing most fight to last 2-3 turns is good, because if they were longer you'd run out of PP early and wouldn't be able to complete the dungeon.
I disagree here. The buff to PP-recovery djinn in combination with PP-recovery on items means that PP is no limitation in the long run. To bring again my above example, for Hard Mode Poseidon I didn't have to use any Psy Crystals or even Mountain Waters; Felix who acted as the main healer has Luna Shield for +4 PP-recov, and Piers was using Ether on cooldown on Felix for about 53PP every 3 rounds. With my current PP pool of 165, that's 30+ rounds before Felix runs dry if spamming Wish Well every round, and for quite a few rounds Felix did something else (like use Wish instead of Wish Well, use Shade, use a summon or simply use his Healing Ring as a substitute of Wish)
Also, when I completed Reloaded mod v1.74 less than 2 months ago on Normal Mode, I mentioned that PP was never a limitation after the Reunion exactly because of insane PP-recovery on healers from both equipment and from djinn; the only difficulty stemmed from not being instakilled.

However post-reunion you get a lot of benefits
Spoiler for Hidden:
not just 4 more characters, but new loot options and more importantly Djinn reserves that allow you to have the front 4 in their ideal classes for mobs and the back 4 in any less-than-ideal class that can heal. The back party recovers PP passively from walking and PP/t from gear, and group-wide heals affect all 8 out of combat
Fights should be more challenging (4~ turns) that way you are swapping regularly. Else you just forget the other party even exists and go on playing with your favourite 4
This is exactly my observation as well. PP-regen is so abundant that I remember spending it all while hovering on the ship so as to start at 0, then entering Mars Lighthouse and simply walking back and forth to force encounters. The front party (in monoclasses) would use autoattacks, djinn and summons, and the back party would just heal out-of-combat. Total group PP was going up after every fight because more PP was recovered than spent. I think Mia had something like +16PP/round, Jenna +12PP/round and Sheba +8PP/round?
Giving more HP to enemies is definitely one way to tackle this and possibly the best one that would not break the balance between classes, especially between Weapon-unleashers and Psynergy-users. I prefer the solution of more simultaneous enemies, to promote the use of more expensive AoE Psynergy, but I realize that there are technical limitations.
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« Reply #765 on: 14, July, 2020, 08:03:15 AM »

This may be a minor bug: After acquiring Grind and entering the West sea, I immediately went to the shallow patch abit to the east of Tundaria Tower. The reward has been changed to 500 coins (intentionally I guess), but if I press A again, I get the text "Felix found a ???" instead of the usual fluff text. I attach screenshot.


* Felix found a nothing.bmp (112.55 KB, 240x160 - viewed 37 times.)
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« Reply #766 on: 16, July, 2020, 12:08:12 AM »

Star Magician has the fame of being the easiest of the secret bosses, but that could be "fixed" with the random encounters "softening" the party up a bit before the actual encounter.
Well, you can always run around in the room before him to regain PP, since it doesn't have random encounters.  Happy

I disagree here. The buff to PP-recovery djinn in combination with PP-recovery on items means that PP is no limitation in the long run. To bring again my above example, for Hard Mode Poseidon I didn't have to use any Psy Crystals or even Mountain Waters; Felix who acted as the main healer has Luna Shield for +4 PP-recov, and Piers was using Ether on cooldown on Felix for about 53PP every 3 rounds. With my current PP pool of 165, that's 30+ rounds before Felix runs dry if spamming Wish Well every round, and for quite a few rounds Felix did something else (like use Wish instead of Wish Well, use Shade, use a summon or simply use his Healing Ring as a substitute of Wish)
You finding a specific strategy that allows you to recover PP constantly through a battle is, I think, good design and good thinking on your part. IMO most boss fights are really well balanced.
My main concern was with dungeons and random encounters. I meant the dungeon difficulty before reunion was OK (and I was thinking before Lemuria, since I was overleveled after that and that may be the reason post Lemuria felt easy to me). Yampi Desert, Air's Rock and Kibombo Mountains + Gabomba are spot on

Also, when I completed Reloaded mod v1.74 less than 2 months ago on Normal Mode, I mentioned that PP was never a limitation after the Reunion exactly because of insane PP-recovery on healers from both equipment and from djinn; the only difficulty stemmed from not being instakilled.
We agree, post Reunion dungeons become trivial and PP is not an issue. If fights were longer you would probably need to heal during the fight and it would overall drain your PP more than you recover. Ideally you should be reaching the Psynergy Stones or the end of the dungeons with pretty much no PP (at the intended lvls, obviously if I am overleveled that's my fault).
In Treasure Island 2nd half I was with lvl 31 Isaac party killing every encounter in 2 turns without ever falling below 75% PP and I wasn't even geared optimally for that. So that's a problem.  Sad

I prefer the solution of more simultaneous enemies, to promote the use of more expensive AoE Psynergy, but I realize that there are technical limitations.
Yeah, I'd love to see more 4 and even 5 enemy fights, but that might not be doable. There's a bunch of stuff I would love to change, but most are impossible to mod and the ones that are possible are changes so big I'm sure Caledor wouldn't agree. It's his property after all, so he gets the final call.  Sweat Drop
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« Reply #767 on: 16, July, 2020, 08:57:06 PM »

It's been a busy week. catching up:

Quote
Are the element indicators (Venus Mercury Mars Jupiter) treated like a character in-game?
Nope, that's something i would've used btw.

Quote
- The last tier of non-artifact equipment (Great Sword etc.) is available fairly mid-way through TLA, in fact right after getting Piers's boat. This means that from that point onwards all equipment upgrades are from artifacts. Would it be possible to add larger gaps to the non-artifact equipment so that Long Sword, Battle Mace etc. become available after the reunion with stats and coin cost that match artifact equipment at that point?

I think the game is so packed with stuff that you don't really need much more. Actually there's so much i could easily afford the luxury of moving some to the end game (phaeton blade).

Quote
Slightly tied to the above, coins lose their "role" as a resource that we have manage
c) drop/chest items cost down to single digit or something like that. If we really want that it's the only way. 75% sell value is a huge wall to overcome.

Quote
Is there a way to know what item is going to be crafted from the blacksmith [...] (and of course without viewing the emulator memory :p )
Emulator memory :P

Quote
AFAIK Lure can´t be made into a psynergy because the effect on the Lure Hat is picked from a completely different list than utility psynergy
^^^

Quote
Useable items out of combat
Note to self: check behavior of those items. Spirit ring was removed because it'd never break when used out of combat IIRC. Any item that does the same must follow suit.

Quote
Considering you go there (or at least you can go there) right after reunion, don't you think the second half of Treasure Island's loot is overtuned?
Probably. But i've also run out of places to put endgame stuff. I literally had to pull new enemies out of thin air only to give them the added items as drops before. And "balancing" random encounters post reunion is a bit of an extreme issue. I either ignore it cause you can still only deploy 4 people at the same time, or double all enemy stats cause you have a backup party.

Quote
This may be a minor bug: After acquiring Grind and entering the West sea, I immediately went to the shallow patch abit to the east of Tundaria Tower. The reward has been changed to 500 coins (intentionally I guess), but if I press A again, I get the text "Felix found a ???" instead of the usual fluff text. I attach screenshot.
100% intentional (remember the moving phaeton to endgame thing i meantioned earlier, it's related to that), but the display issue is also 100% a bug. Note to self: check.

Quote
Yeah, I'd love to see more 4 and even 5 enemy fights, but that might not be doable
In the latest patch i had to decrease the size of some enemy groups cause they glitch in a all warrior party comp. It's literally the gba running out of RAM to manage all those sprites, cause warrior sprites are bigger than mages + ivan.


EDIT: 900th post!  Revive
« Last Edit: 16, July, 2020, 09:03:15 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #768 on: 17, July, 2020, 09:17:22 AM »

Well, you can always run around in the room before him to regain PP, since it doesn't have random encounters.  Happy
True. In fact I used this trick a lot during my first Reloaded run on Normal mode, and I also (ab)used it in Hard Mode especially after finding the trick with Avoid. I do want to do a run where I impose this artificial rule for extra challenge (no running around in no-encounter areas and no using Avoid for PP regen)

You finding a specific strategy that allows you to recover PP constantly through a battle is, I think, good design and good thinking on your part. IMO most boss fights are really well balanced.
My main concern was with dungeons and random encounters. I meant the dungeon difficulty before reunion was OK (and I was thinking before Lemuria, since I was overleveled after that and that may be the reason post Lemuria felt easy to me). Yampi Desert, Air's Rock and Kibombo Mountains + Gabomba are spot on
I would say the strategy worked for Poseidon because he is weak to Mars. At the same time, it was pure luck that I got Luna Shield from one of the available Star Dusts, but even without it I could easily replace one unleash of Ether with use of Psynergy Crystal. The same strategy would not work for Avimander with equally good results or other bosses that require more turns before the djinn can complete a cycle of Unleash->Summon->Recover.

We agree, post Reunion dungeons become trivial and PP is not an issue. If fights were longer you would probably need to heal during the fight and it would overall drain your PP more than you recover. Ideally you should be reaching the Psynergy Stones or the end of the dungeons with pretty much no PP (at the intended lvls, obviously if I am overleveled that's my fault).
In Treasure Island 2nd half I was with lvl 31 Isaac party killing every encounter in 2 turns without ever falling below 75% PP and I wasn't even geared optimally for that. So that's a problem.  Sad
After reunion PP recovery can be so high, especially on the back party with stacking PP-recov equipment, that longer battles can "backfire" and provide even higher PP recovery. I can't check yet because my current save file is right before Moapa, but I think I am not exaggerating that it might be possible to have +30PP/round in the back party (and even higher with end-game equipment). If the front party does not need to use more than that every round, it means that you can have another new way of recovering PP: Initiate a battle, leave only 1 enemy alive, then have everyone in the front party Defend and heal any incoming damage until the back party gets back to full PP. While spending 50PP or more per round is normal for end-game boss fights (Pure Wish covers that on its own), in random encounters we generally do not need to deal with so frequent AoE healing.

c) drop/chest items cost down to single digit or something like that. If we really want that it's the only way. 75% sell value is a huge wall to overcome.
While on the topic, I noticed that the enemy "Slayer" near Gondowan Settlement drops only 21 coins when defeated. This was in vanilla too, and I guess it's an oversight from Camelot. Is it possible to tweak the coins dropped from enemies? I believe a simple reduction of 20% for enemies after getting Piers would impact our wallets quite significantly and make us have to choose what item to prioritize when visiting a new shop instead of buying everything.
For my current Hard Mode run, I had to actually choose what to buy at Naribwe because I did not have enough for more than 1 item. I also had to choose what to pick right after defeating Aqua Hydra because many shops became available at the same time (Champa, Izumo, Apojii Islands, Yallam). Right now I am at Moapa, overleveled of course at lvl33, and I have 120k coins.

I know I sound like a broken record and that I've become annoying, but I will blame again the abundance of PP-recovery options. If they were not as numerous and powerful, we would have to resort to items in order to conserve PP for offense or more HP-recov/round. This means there would exist a coin sink. I actually did this for the entire part from Madra till Kibombo Statue.
a) A stack of Herbs is 360coins and restores 1500HP, which is approximately 18x Boons or about 54PP.
b) A stack of Corns is 1200coins and restores 3000HP, which is approximately 30x-32x Boons (because of higher HP per PP as element value rises) or about 95PP.
c) A stack of Nuts is 3600coins and restores 6000HP, which is approximately 60x Boons or about 180PP.
d) A stack of Vials is 9000coins and restores 10500HP, which is approximately 90x Boons or about 270PP.

The cost of 1 stack of the above items is comparable to that of buying a new weapon at the appropriate levels. But the key is how important PP is at the point of the game where the use of the aformentioned item is "needed".
a) At Air's Rock, the group of 3 (I assume Piers is not present) should have about 150PP-200PP total. One stack of Herbs is almost a 25%-30% "boost" to starting PP, which can help significantly until the party reaches the small Psynergy Stone as they enter inner Air Rock and/or the large stone deep in the dungeon. Giving all 4 members a full stack (which is costly for this level) is like giving double starting PP. This is very important because there is no way to actively recover PP.
b) At Kibombo Mountain, the group of 3 should have about 250PP-300PP total. With Piers the group could reach about 400PP. One stack of corns is about 25% extra PP again, which is again of good use because Kibombo Mountain and Statue could be considered 1 large dungeon (there is no Inn between them). Similarly to above, giving 3 members a full stack of Corn a very good buff to the available PP pool. But now the group also has Ether to continually recover PP, and a few Mountain Waters.
c) At Eastern Sea dungeons, a total PP pool of about 500PP-700PP is expected. Again, a stack of Nuts is ~25% buff, and the only expected continuous source of PP is Ether (I assume the player does not receive any PP-recov equipment from Sunshine).
d) When starting Western Sea content, the group should have around 800PP-900PP. Vials are starting out strong even though expensive. But the group now has both Ether and, through active player decisions, over 10PP/round (currently at Moapa I have +17PP/round). With 10PP/round, 30 rounds of combat are enough to provide the equivalent PP that a stack of Vials helps to conserve.
e) After the reunion, PP recovery from equipment and djinn overshadows starting PP. At 30PP/round from equipment and at least another possible average 20PP/round from Ether, Aroma and Ember, the party of 8 would gain in 20 rounds 1000PP. That is achieved by starting 10 random fights and have them last 3 rounds. Even if we assume that every fight is 2 rounds (which means PP recovery activates once per combat), 20 fights bring the same result. I expect that a full run of Mars Lighthouse should be about 50-100 fights, depending on luck. As long as Pure Wish (or equivalent rank 3 AoE healing) is not required every round, the outcome is PP-positive for the party. Vials are no longer of use and can be safely vendored or discarded.

TLDR: Nerfing PP-recovery options would also automatically make coin a more limiting resource.

Probably. But i've also run out of places to put endgame stuff. I literally had to pull new enemies out of thin air only to give them the added items as drops before. And "balancing" random encounters post reunion is a bit of an extreme issue. I either ignore it cause you can still only deploy 4 people at the same time, or double all enemy stats cause you have a backup party.
Only HP please  Sad Enemies deal enough damage as they are.
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« Reply #769 on: 17, July, 2020, 05:29:32 PM »

Quote
And "balancing" random encounters post reunion is a bit of an extreme issue. I either ignore it cause you can still only deploy 4 people at the same time, or double all enemy stats cause you have a backup party.
Probably doubling all stats would make it too hard. I would double HP on all post-reunion and maybe increase Agi in some (~50%) and then check how that goes, probably damage still needs to be increased on some endgame enemies, but I wouldn't change it without first trying those other changes. I agree it IS a bit extreme, but otherwise it is just too straightforward and easy.
I think this also would be a nice indirect buff to Ailments. What's the use of sleep or stun or poison when you can kill your enemies before they can attack you? However if the fights were longer it would be more worthwhile.

Quote
In the latest patch i had to decrease the size of some enemy groups cause they glitch in a all warrior party comp. It's literally the gba running out of RAM to manage all those sprites, cause warrior sprites are bigger than mages + ivan.
Figures. That's a pity, but it can't be helped

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900th post!
WOW Congrats!

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I can't check yet because my current save file is right before Moapa, but I think I am not exaggerating that it might be possible to have +30PP/round in the back party (and even higher with end-game equipment)
If you go for the absolute maximum PP/t equipment on a back party of 2 warriors and 2 mages just at reunion you would take:

Warriors:
2x Luna Shield (4PP/t)
2x Crown of Glory (6PP/t)

Mages:
2x Dragon Robe (2PP/t)
1x Spirit Gloves (3PP/t)
2x Mythril Circlet (8PP/t)

So in total that's 43PP/t thought that's min-maxing, maybe don't use that number for balancing.
The same in endgame gear would be:

Warriors:
2x Cosmos Shield (10PP/t)
2x Crown of Glory (6PP/t) Though Millenium Helm (50 max PP) may be better considering class multipliers and passive walking recovery

Mages:
1x Iris Robe (5PP/t)
1x Dragon Robe (2PP/t)
1x Spirit Gloves (3PP/t)
2x Psychic Circlet (12PP/t)

Any:
1x Golden Shirt (3PP/t)
1x Iridial Ring (5PP/t)

For a total of 74PP/t This, again is strict min-maxing.

Quote
in random encounters we generally do not need to deal with so frequent AoE healing.
Quote
Enemies deal enough damage as they are.
Pick one :P

Quote
Initiate a battle, leave only 1 enemy alive, then have everyone in the front party Defend and heal any incoming damage until the back party gets back to full PP
Well, that's a broken strat surely, but I don't think that's something balance should be involved in, it's not something most people playing would do. You exploiting that is entirely on you. If we are going for broken strats there's also the out-of-combat heal efficiency one: Put all djinn on standby except the healer's (all if using items), heal the lower total HPs due to class multipliers and then Set all djinn again to get 100% HP with cheaper heals.
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« Reply #770 on: 17, July, 2020, 08:31:03 PM »

Equipment stuff
Thank you for laying out the data, and also for providing the information on how to create a broken party! Turns out the situation can be even more skewed in favor of the min-maxer. However, this also means that the player can select another piece of equipment with higher HP or armor or element boost instead of PP recovery.

Quote
in random encounters we generally do not need to deal with so frequent AoE healing.
Quote
Enemies deal enough damage as they are.
Pick one :P
I indeed should have clarified that; my point is that damage in random encounters is not high, it's spiky.

Random encounter enemies still have the potential to kill a party member, without use of Condemn-like abilities or Forceful fists followed by a simple attack, especially Ivan/Sheba with less than 5 djinni active, if they all focus on that party member. It is also often that 2 party members are hit and below 50% hp, while the other 2 members are at full. The player has the option to multitarget heal every turn to prevent such an accidental death, but that means that in most cases at least 50% of its healing would go to waste. It's like using Spark Plasma for single target damage because it's the highest damage ability on that character, when it would make more sense to instead buff your other characters with specialized single-target abilities (or debuff the enemy).

Boss encounters are different. While bosses also have strong single-target attacks, they tend to use AoE attacks more often instead, and this means that damage is spread out. They are kind of balanced around Wish / Wish Well / Pure Wish every turn (or every 2nd turn), with a second member providing additional single-target (or multitarget) healing if needed.

There is indeed the tactic to overcome this by having the 4 durable characters at the front (Isaac, Felix, Garet, Piers). You know what, I think I will try it!

Well, that's a broken strat surely, but I don't think that's something balance should be involved in, it's not something most people playing would do. You exploiting that is entirely on you. If we are going for broken strats there's also the out-of-combat heal efficiency one: Put all djinn on standby except the healer's (all if using items), heal the lower total HPs due to class multipliers and then Set all djinn again to get 100% HP with cheaper heals.
I am not going to lie, the only reason I do not do that is because of laziness. At the same time PP is not so restrictive so as to necessitate it. If I had to look out for my PP, I would definitely have used that strategy too.
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« Reply #771 on: 17, July, 2020, 10:51:45 PM »

Jeez, I don't think I've been gone that long but it's crazy to see these conversations taking place!

Anyone starting a TLA 1.78 run. I'm not really going to focus on balance suggestions this time (I've done that enough lol) But I'll look out for bugs and oddities. Of course I'll speak my mind if I feel strongly about anything as always.  Happy

I'll try to keep up with this more often so I don't have a 5 page backlog to read next time haha.
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« Reply #772 on: 17, July, 2020, 11:20:47 PM »

The more people in the discussion the better!

Update on v1.78: Moapa down.
After a couple rounds, Moapa was using Defense as one of his actions on 2 out of 3 turns. Possibly on more turns, but Ulysses's stun prevented him from doing so? It seems to be connected to him using Mist Potion. Maybe the AI tries to make him use Mist Potion every time he is on low HP, but it fails due to limited items and falls back on Defend?
At the same time, Petra did not work on him any time.

Strategy:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Strategy revolved around utilizing Ulysses on a character with good Ailment bonus, so as to have as many as 3 out of 4 enemy actions wasted. Piers was spamming Gel on Moapa to remove his Attack buff, and throwing the occasional Shade, to get the 2 Mercury djinn on standby. Sheba was similarily using Reflux and Kindle.
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« Reply #773 on: 24, July, 2020, 09:07:47 PM »

Hello!! I already played this mod several times and I just wanted to say that I adore it. I love the variety of things that were added and the challenge that the game poses (the only thing that I consider a bit difficult is the stretch from the Gondowan cliffs and the ship, but I love the rest of the game). Now I'm replaying TBS, trying to get all the equipment before Deadbeard  Joy
If something is misspelled, I apologize, my native language is Spanish and although I read English well, writing is a bit complicated
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« Reply #774 on: 24, July, 2020, 09:39:09 PM »

Your English is wonderful.  You would have me fooled.  There may be a few very minor things like commas, but that's normal/everyone messes those up from time to time (including me)... and is most likely acceptable informally.

Quote
I already played this mod several times, and I just wanted to say that I adore it.
(Example - Connecting two sentences uses a comma and conjunction word.  Edit: Or alternately, a semi-colon. (;))


And I like how this is the only real active topic on this forum. :D :D.... What if we name this site to... Golden Sun Reloaded Community
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« Reply #775 on: 25, July, 2020, 07:09:49 PM »

Updating progress... Just killed the Double Dragons, after a few flukes where my main healer (Felix as Protector) would be stunned before firing off Pure Wish.
Smaller dragon using Djinnfest 4 times in 2 rounds made me chuckle.
I am not entirely sure, but Agatio-dragon may be facing the same issue of running out of PP in long fight as Deadbeard did in TBS before the change to 0-cost abilities. The combat lasted over 40 rounds, and in the final 10+ rounds he only used normal Attack, Stun Muscle and Cage, no other ability. Both dragons were normally recoving 4PP/t as in vanilla. I expect that Karst-dragon would face similar issue if she survives long enough in combat.

Strategy
Spoiler for Hidden:
Pretty straightforward. Front team Isaac 39, Felix 40, Piers 39, Garet 38.
Isaac kept himself buffed with Bravery and spammed attack for Armageddon (...wasn't this Megiddo?)
Felix was the healer - alternating between Potent Cure or Pure Wish depending on what was needed
Piers summoner/djinn user: Shade, Eddy
Garet djinn user: Flash, Kite, Breath, Ether, Haze, Lull
Back party would replace Garet near the start of the combat 1-by-1 for "summon rushing" regardless of element. Due to Hardmode, enemies seem to have almost 10k hp (or maybe more?) so even Meteor from Piers was outdamaging Armageddon.
First focused on Karst since she's the more annoying one.

-=EDIT=-
Again I found something that I was not aware of! In the room with the gauntlet where you have to pound the pillars to reach the exit before the big dragon head is lit and fires you back and off the edge, once the gauntlet has started it is not allowed to save. I attach screenshot.

-=EDIT 2=-
The currently "broken" build of extreme PP/t actually works. In fact it's so plentiful, that after every fight I just alternate between Jenna and Mia (both in back party) and spam 3-4 expensive party heals to heal the front party even if only member needs healing for only 30HP. They never go out of PP.
Similarly, I have made Isaac a "broken" autoattacker. With Warrior's Helm (+8 crit), Aegis Shield (+15 Crit), Valkyrie Mail (+20 Crit) and Hyper Boots (+4 Crit), I get 4 out of 5 autoattacks as Armageddon. Checking the equipment sheet, it seems that max possible is actually 100% without cursed equipment. (Valkyrie Mail, Riot Gloves, Mithril Helm, Casual Shirt, Ninja Sandals, Sol Ring).
Again similarly for ailments, the max seems to be +42% (Demon Mail, Terror Shield, Alastor's Hood, Angel's Ring)

-=EDIT 3=-
I noticed that Apollo's Axe unleash is Mars element, but the orbs that spawn have yellow hue as if it's Venus. I don't know if this is intentional, an oversight, or if it worked like that in vanilla too.


* No time for Saving Progress!.bmp (112.55 KB, 240x160 - viewed 26 times.)
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« Reply #776 on: 26, July, 2020, 12:16:06 AM »

Speaking of broken strategies, I have one. Idea

If you're exploring a dangerous zone (Example: Western/Eastern Sea areas you are supposed to visit at a higher level) you can save and restart after every combat.

That way you always attack first and therefore you can easily escape   Mercury Djinni

I used that strategy when I went to the Venus Lighthouse at level 20 to get the Gaia blade before exploring the pirate island  Sweat Drop
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« Reply #777 on: 26, July, 2020, 11:12:44 AM »

Speaking of broken strategies, I have one. Idea
If you're exploring a dangerous zone (Example: Western/Eastern Sea areas you are supposed to visit at a higher level) you can save and restart after every combat.
That way you always attack first and therefore you can easily escape   Mercury Djinni
I didn't want to admit it. I have been abusing this trick as well. It works on djinn too, but not on Mimics and bosses. Similarly I have been resetting every time when Sunshine wouldn't give me the item I wanted.

-=EDIT=-
In order to prevent spamming, I am editing this post.
The Bombanders in Anemos Sanctum use Eruption instead of Pyroclasm. I don't know if it's intended or not, since they already use Supernova which is rank 3 Psynergy.
Also the triple enemy encounters are evil >.<
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« Reply #778 on: 28, July, 2020, 06:11:21 PM »

Quote
I used that strategy when I went to the Venus Lighthouse at level 20 to get the Gaia blade before exploring the pirate island  Sweat Drop
How did you even get to Venus at level 20?! You should be like 30 by then  Exclamation

I used the save and restart one only for Djinn that would escape. Since most of them can no longer do so in the newest patch I don't think I'll ever do it again lol
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« Reply #779 on: 02, August, 2020, 10:47:14 AM »

Moving ahead... I'm currently stuck at the optional bosses. Here are some notes:

- Balrog may also be suffering from the similar "I'm out of PP in long combats" syndrome. There is a point where he stops using Supernova and instead spams Stun Jip.
- I am unable to beat him so far only and only because at some point he will manage to get Coatlicue going on him. Over 20 tries so far, and in at least 5 of them, while he was below 30% hp (I know because Coatlicue restored some 9800hp to him instead of "recovered to full"), he did 2 Djinn Stuns and Coatlicue in a row. It will be hard managing the party so that at no point will I have more than a total of 3 Mercury or Jupiter Djinn at the front. I would go as far as propose that Coatlicue should get a hard 999hp per round cap.
    -- Note to self: Next playthough do not pick up any Summon tablets until Balrog is defeated.
- I noticed something weird with the Attack stat. Balrog has high enough that any changes to it (Megaera, Blunt etc.) should be in intervals of 118/119. But Summoning Magaera once buffs him only by around 50, I assume because it reaches the ceiling of 999. But if I use Blunt on him, it doesn't reduce it by 118 as it should, but by only that amount of 50. Further Blunts normally reduce it by 118 (and Eclipse by 237 or so). Does the game allow stats to go over 999, but only visually caps them?

- Star Magician is even harder (and I love this!), but not because of his own abilities. Rather, a combination of Refresh Ball + Guardian Ball basically "nullifies" all damage done and reverts damage done so far. At some point he had 2x Refresh + 2x Guardian Balls. ...Yeah, I was unable to kill any of them.
- Guardian's Ball ability "Harden" seems to have some weird rules. Sometimes is acts as having higher priority, being used before abilities like Ground, Petra, Flash etc., and other times it acts as having normal priority.
- Thunder Balls sometimes use Spark Plasma while other times they use Shine Plasma.
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