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Author Topic: Golden Sun The Lost Age Editor Open Sourced (Dev alpha v0.5 download inside)  (Read 34415 times)
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« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2015, 07:14:53 PM »

I'd pick C# myself. Could be nice picking up a widely used language like that, and I could even apply it to M&L hacking someday.

But of course, it would be also cool to at least add some basic things to the GM version sooner or later. At least until everything else is added to the other.
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« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2015, 07:39:40 PM »

Cool. I guess C# it is, then? (Over Java, Python, etc.)
@M&L hacking: If you remember, I actually already started that... (I called it Checkpoint #1, because it was my early attempts at moving the Yoshi Magic VB project to C#.) Now, I reckon if we get REAL lucky, we could have Golden Sun and M&L in the same project. (In the beginning, I might have them separate, but I guess it depends on how many shared resources there are? --  Things like OAM format, BG format, assembly, etc. )

@GM: I agree with that too, because the transition would take quite some time, but I believe it will be worth it.


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« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:36:32 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2015, 08:47:14 PM »

Okay then, I put it on 4shared for a little while.
http://www.4shared.com/rar/3SLG1rtkba/GM8.html
(beware that you need an account for 4shared!)
(also, there are decompilers in the GM folder and GM itself has some extensions)

It be nice to see a new version of the editor.
GM isn't necessarily slower, it just not made for editors and indeed, the DLL thing is not fast at all.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:49:49 PM by Luna_blade, Reason: also » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2015, 09:02:45 PM »

Quote
It be nice to see a new version of the editor.

Quote
GM isn't necessarily slower, it just not made for editors and indeed, the DLL thing is not fast at all.
Um? I'd say stay away from both of them when possible.
I believe the reason to use the DLL was to get access to the fast I/O  data loading method, thingy...? (The editor uses it to decompress the map data to make the ~7 files in Temp, but when it goes to load & display the map with that data, it does not... unfortunately. But if it did, I predict you wouldn't need the box that pops up on loading a map. -- The slow byte by byte loading method would also be slow in .NET as well.)

But anyway, I think DLLs are best when you have more than one executable application needing to access the same library of functions.(?)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 09:13:40 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2015, 10:16:55 PM »

Haha, well, thanks for uploading that Luna! The major downside is it's telling me I have to use 8.1, and I think I may also have to grab the Pro version if I'm remembering the last time I tried Lite 8.1. Oh well, I'll just think of some other ideas for polishing the editor up in the meantime.
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« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2015, 10:20:47 PM »

Maybe you could get lucky and they might have 8.1 Pro on for a sale. It's still not super cheap, but I got it at somewhere around 50-60% of its normal price? Supposedly it includes the ability to publish to Mac, but it requires you to have a Mac on the same local network or something and I haven't been able to figure out how to make it work at all.
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« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2015, 07:09:00 AM »

Haha, well, thanks for uploading that Luna! The major downside is it's telling me I have to use 8.1, and I think I may also have to grab the Pro version if I'm remembering the last time I tried Lite 8.1. Oh well, I'll just think of some other ideas for polishing the editor up in the meantime.
Which version of GSE do you try to open? It works fine when I 0.5.
And which GameMaker.exe do you use?
IIRC, you need to execute GameMaker(2).exe which is bigger.

Quote
But anyway, I think DLLs are best when you have more than one executable application needing to access the same library of functions.(?)
Getting a bit off topic, but I also think it's for structure and saving memory space. However, most computer have plenty of memory space, on the other hand, new mobile phone and tablets don't.
But yeah, sometimes it is not quite as handy as they thought it would be.
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« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2015, 12:41:30 PM »

Quote
Which version of GSE do you try to open? It works fine when I 0.5.
And which GameMaker.exe do you use?
IIRC, you need to execute GameMaker(2).exe which is bigger.
I get the feeling he's trying to use my version, which likely requires a later version than Atrius's original source.

Quote
Getting a bit off topic, but I also think it's for structure and saving memory space. However, most computer have plenty of memory space, on the other hand, new mobile phone and tablets don't.
But yeah, sometimes it is not quite as handy as they thought it would be.
@Saving memory space: While that was sort of my point about having multiple EXEs access the DLL instead of duplicating code across them... Would it be possible to hook up some memory chips in that case? (Ex: Like a thumb drive for extra ROM memory, etc.) ; If you're a huge gamer and developer using lots of big apps and stuff, I'd reckon DLLs would not be enough to keep you from needing something like that? (I'd say graphics can easily take up more room than code, especially if they're HD/high quality.) -- One thing though, I wonder if accesses made to the thumb drive would be slower than the hard drive? (Most likely? But just how much slower? I might google some time?)

And yes, getting a bit off-topic... But I can say that I already started with the new C# GS editor... Or well, it's so early, it's better I not say anything in fear that it might get delayed for years without work... but the point is I'm at least thinking about it at the minimum. -- And that I'm still thinking about the main form being the Map Viewer/Editor, with sub-editors that pop up on separate forms for everything else.... (Think of it like Lunar Magic.)

--

I want to thank you for that download as well... The ol' Studio is too messed up for me to use. (The updater keeps resetting... aka:closing and opening. It's like it only works on the first use or something?)
Now I guess I can work on copying/pasting code... (As soon as I figure out which snippets I want.)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 05:07:08 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2015, 03:08:25 AM »

Jamie: Nuts to buying it, lol. I might as well learn a programming language and start from scratch at that point, especially since I can do a lot of it on my own already.

Luna & Fox (8/8.1): Interesting... Yeah, I think I ran the wrong .exe and I also tried opening the Teawater map version, which is based on 8.1.

And awesome stuff. It looks like you might be doing the bulk of it for a bit then; going to try to pick up a language between the busy periods of my schedule.
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« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2015, 04:54:24 AM »

I like that we are discussing this.

In a way, I'm somewhat convinced moving to another language like C# or Java is probably the way to go...?
As long as these are true:
-GML and C# have similarities in languages in that you use { }, etc.
-If you can port to Linux/Mac/etc.. using (http://www.mono-project.com/ ???) that's great. - Googling, I found this http://www.drdobbs.com/windows/c-and-nets-sudden-ubiquity/240169282 ... (Posted Nov. 2014) Maybe it is interesting?
-Game Maker seems to be CPU-intensive, I reckon we could solve that problem. Game Maker also has a poor user-interface in my opinion.
-I know how to do fast IO-data loading in C#/Java, where-as Game Maker may require the DLL.
-
We discussed changing languages before.  Two years ago.  Forgive me if I lack faith in swapping to another language.  Let's stick with this, and just switch to Open GS when it's done.
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Today at 03:06:05 AM
Rolina: Once I'm done with data collection, I'll post a summary of my findings, and will begin by proposing a set of modification categories and their associated values.  Problem is, it'll use my system, so I'll need those more familiar with the two casting systems (MPP and INT) to translate the intent of the modifers properly.
Today at 03:03:18 AM
Rolina: ---extra turn, it's good now because of my proper hard mode" nonsense method of fixing the lower difficulty curve of the games.  I think the first thing to look at is the Size and Type of enemies.  A small plantoid should have substancially different than a medium goblinoid, imo.  Especially when you start factoring in other modifiers, such as body shape, the role in combat, monster tier level, and even manual tweaking.  Sometimes, a turtle just needs that extra 10% defense to really make sense.
Today at 02:59:39 AM
Rolina: Yeah.  I was getting data so I can use the trendlines as a basis for an enemy creator using my system.  As it turns out, it may turn into a tool for the GSHC before then just to get some consistant statistical variatino added in.  Between that and your AI project, we could probably do a lot to help with widening the scope of enemies in the game.  Could lead to a proper increase in difficulty that has nothing to do with something simple like "so guys I upped theier stats and gave them all an---
Today at 01:53:24 AM
Lord Squirtle: The "lack of enemy variation" part specifically.
Today at 01:49:27 AM
Lord Squirtle: Lol, that's starting to sound like one of the reasons why I'm planning an AI overhaul.
Today at 12:32:55 AM
Rolina: I thing it goes a long way to explaiing why battles are on the easier side - just a pure lack of enemy variation.  When the big bad dragon shares the same statistical layout as a freaking grub with a stick... well, I figure something should be done about that.  Luckily, we're here to correct such lazy design.
Today at 12:30:41 AM
Rolina: And PP is even worse.  It looks like it's completely divorced from level for most monsters, with them gaining PP based on what and how many spells they have on their movset, usually around 20 for most non-damaging spells.
Today at 12:29:30 AM
Rolina: Been doing some data collectino with enemy stats.  Less than a fifth of the way through so far, and.... well, from the trends I've been noticing, the results look kinda... depressing.  Most monsters seem to follow the same statistical trends, regardless of what type of creature it is.  Could be a bird, a beast, or a freaking turtle - the ratio of Health, Attack, Defense, and Agility appears to be following the same ratios.
Yesterday at 11:36:37 PM
Fox: Sounds like you got what I got way back?  Guess that means the error's still there.
Yesterday at 09:43:50 PM
Caledor: Menu Box patchs for TLA is up. sadly i got an error after uploading so i tried again without checking and now there are 2 patches. If someone could delete the second one i'd appreciate it.
Yesterday at 12:17:52 AM
Fox: (e.g. The process of reomving, replacing, adding, and/or moving around current ability effects to other index numbers.... ETC.)
Yesterday at 12:15:33 AM
Fox: Or an Ability Effect editor, even.... But I imagine most of those would involve have patches applied to help with compatibility, and what not.?
Yesterday at 12:10:36 AM
Fox: Hm. Oh! Did Atrius's Editor contain code from the April Fools version? Might be cool to have that, I'm guessing? - And yes, tools... even specific feature tools... Like an Intellect Editor, maybe.... If it was practical. (Not saying doable, but practical.)
April 26, 2017, 11:58:08 PM
Lord Squirtle: And yeah, "far less user-friendly" as an argument relies on the current lack of tools that could make using that easier.
April 26, 2017, 11:57:26 PM
Lord Squirtle: Since the GS editor is actually slower than using a hex editor is when it comes to classes, especially if you are mostly copying or tweaking existing classes to make full lines for them.
April 26, 2017, 11:56:18 PM
Lord Squirtle: Well I mean, it's the kind of effect that could easily be applied to a number of abilities if one wants. Having to open up a hex editor to use it for each of those abilities would take some time, and wouldn't really be as worthwhile as it can be for classes.
April 26, 2017, 11:50:27 PM
Fox: Far less user-friendly? Hm? I would say it depends on the tools/and such... For example, still haven't gotten my Exporter project done....
April 26, 2017, 10:07:39 PM
Lord Squirtle: But what I was thinking of doing with the unused effects was figuring out which ones are still available and combining them; averaging out the differences between each one so they make up for the ones that are missing.
April 26, 2017, 10:05:36 PM
Lord Squirtle: I may consider moving the effects to the end of the effect list, since I moved the pointer table and added some empty space on the end. My main concern with that is that it would be far less user friendly.
April 26, 2017, 08:06:20 PM
Fox: Heh... Starting to make me want to add the Ability Editor to my own Editor now... So I can do that, and have chance values listed for each and every one. (So it is more specific than Atrius's editor.)

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