Golden Sun Hacking Community
February 20, 2020, 12:20:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home   Forum   DC Wiki Help Search Calendar Downloads Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Self introduction, new project in mind(Halp please)  (Read 10525 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Salanewt
His Sexiness
Global Moderator

Oh yeah, baby!

Prodigy
*

Coins: 200
Offline Offline

I am: A part of the organization of Cool Cats, but more of a dog person in reality.
Emblems: Have a nice day.
Posts: 4594

« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2017, 08:19:38 PM »

I would try giving you a fix for the heightened priority effect so you could give him a few abilities with it if it were GS2, but I don't think GS1 has anything like that to fix and adding it could take a lot of work. I'll be interested to see how you make use of his durability!
Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW

Novice Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 14

« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2017, 04:11:17 AM »

Currently looking for the section on GS 1 to get the resistance and power caps(I haven't had much time to study golden sun programming because of university, it's gone ballistic) party mechanics start in #08077000 for GS1, and 080ADA86  for GS 2. So now I have to trial and error until I find the value that reflects the cap? atleast the first clue is that it will be C8 (?) or 8C? since its reversed? it's what I understood from what Fox said D:

Well crap. I found the value. But it wasn't after I realized I had to equip and de-equip a modifier that surpassed the 200 mark to check. Kill me please. Re-starting.

00077AAC: surpassed the cap after switching it to FF, Wierd stuff happening though. Is this probably a return and not the actual amount of power or resist someone has?
The resulting damage does change...but the problem is that whenever you surpass the 200 mark, it automatically jumps to 255(my head hurts)
The whole 00077AA0 line actually has 2 more values of C8. My head hurts even further :(


Er....I woke up a little less tired today...The value seems to be #00077AC8 :D
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 02:46:37 PM by Manu » Logged
View Profile
Fox
Fox McCloud, the Hacking Doctor
Mercury Clan

Prodigy
*

Coins: 1000
Offline Offline

I am: certainly not a Gallant!
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 2468

« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2017, 03:33:30 PM »

Quote
party mechanics start in #08077000 for GS1, and 080ADA86  for GS 2.
Probably a typo, but GS2 Party Mechaincs is 080AD000....
But yes, you do have the right idea.

Quote
is that it will be C8 (?) or 8C? since its reversed?
If the cap is 200, it will be 0xC8....

Endian isn't about reversing the characters in the bytes themselves, but reversing the bytes for 16-bits and 32-bits.
For example, swapping 4 bytes into a 32-bit:
Big endian = 01 23 45 67 = 01234567 (Probably for Macs, etc.?)
Little endian = 01 23 45 67 = 67452301 (For Windows, GBA, DS, etc?)

I reckon if all you have is 8-bits to edit, endian likely doesn't matter?
But anyway, a little secret, but where you are editing is thumb code.... in case looking in VBA's Tools>Disassemble helps. (You may not understand it, but one step at a time should get you there like it does for me.)


Should be in this function: 08077428 = calcStats(pc) //Updates all stats?
Anytime the stats need updating (e.g. Equipping stuff/swapping djinn/etc.) This function may be called.... (Sometimes it may be called in other cases like to get the Increase by amounts/etc.... but that's another story.)
My GS1 Documentation isn't specific about what's in the function, but I imagine the cap is near the end.. . *scrolls down*...
There are a few "0xC8"... probably caps for different things.... things may look like:

@ 08077A9A:

if value < 0
{
    value = 0
}
if value > 200
{
    value = 200
}


...and again with a different value after....

@ 08077AAC = r12 = 0xC8... and this number is set to some things when value > 0xC8 ...

Conclusion: You may have to edit a few of these C8's to match. You are definitely in the right place, though.



--
Oh, and ...

I not sure if something about pastebin is messing with my browser or what... but can take some time to load.
https://pastebin.com/RmB0HRXp = My attempt at recoding Party Mechanics (GS2) in C++ that one time to be used with gbadevkit... However, at some point I found out about armips, so not so sure I'll continue this project or not. (Probably not if armips proves to be more than successful/etc.)
https://pastebin.com/WKDwPKtm - The extraction I was working on for armips. (Can't remember if this was the latest extraction or not. But is a WIP either way.)

« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 07:02:47 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
View Profile

I need saves to test encounters in GS Reloaded!

Excellent Member
****

Coins: 20
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 859

« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2017, 06:58:00 PM »

The resulting damage does change...but the problem is that whenever you surpass the 200 mark, it automatically jumps to 255(my head hurts)

I might know why this happens. intuitively, the cap is implemented like this:

- check if elemental value is higher than 200
- if yes, set it to 200.

If the only "200" you change is the second one, the result is what happened to you.

edit: fox said the same thing but was faster lol
Logged
View Profile

Novice Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 14

« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2017, 07:42:24 PM »

I did the change HxD, worked fine for power, i haven't had a chance to keep tinkering but I'll get there. Now I gotta think of how to assembe a countering mechanic for Garet or come up with a new idea, which scares me and excites me equally.


On a side note, I'd like to either implement Caledors' patch or intellect patch. Which one do you think will fit better? Taking in consideration that many items will have elemental power additions. Suggestions?
By the way thanks for the replies. Apreciate

 it.
Logged
View Profile

I need saves to test encounters in GS Reloaded!

Excellent Member
****

Coins: 20
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 859

« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2017, 08:09:07 PM »

On a side note, I'd like to either implement Caledors' patch or intellect patch. Which one do you think will fit better? Taking in consideration that many items will have elemental power additions. Suggestions?
By the way thanks for the replies. Apreciate it.

Rolina explained the ups and downs of both perfectly some posts ago. For reference:

Quote from: Rolina
There's also the spell damage problem, where Caledor and I like using Max PP as a source to reflect elemental power, while Leaf and Squirtle came up with an Intelligence stat approach.  Both approaches are completely valid, but leads to very different feeling games and different possibilities - Caldor's patch makes high PP characters powerful spellcasters while leaving Luck intact, while Squirtle's approach opens up the option for high PP characters who aren't big spellcasters, though at the cost of luck (magic knights are a more viable possibility here).

With Squirtle's you have a separate stat, which is the best for freedom but it costs you the Luck stat.
Mine doesn't have side effects but the "intellect" stat is tied to Max PP, making PP serve both as fuel and power.

Also don't know if you've noticed yet but i also implemented some sort of a "Magic Resistance" stat, which is tied to the character's Class.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 08:11:24 PM by Caledor » Logged
View Profile
Salanewt
His Sexiness
Global Moderator

Oh yeah, baby!

Prodigy
*

Coins: 200
Offline Offline

I am: A part of the organization of Cool Cats, but more of a dog person in reality.
Emblems: Have a nice day.
Posts: 4594

« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2017, 02:08:26 AM »

It really depends, as Rolina and Caledor have said.


The Intellect stat does come with ways to manipulate your "luck" despite not having an actual stat for it anymore. An item attribute allows you to give items an ailment resistance value (which is basically an item-dependent luck stat), and elemental levels also get added together into a pseudo luck stat as far as certain formulas are concerned so you could use that to your advantage when designing enemies. You also get a new damage formula to work with, allowing for Intellect-based multiplier spells. However, that means you need to use a hex editor and maybe another patch or two if you want to maximize its usefulness. I also only made one for GS2, and have no plans to make a patch for GS1 at this time.

Apparently I need to fix a couple minor bugs though, and when I get around to that then I also want to update enemy AI so enemies know how to use buffs and debuffs properly. It is still worth trying this one out if you decide to focus on GS2 and are fine with doing more hex editing, and when I finish my planned AI overhaul then I will likely make a version for this stat as well.


The Max PP one is more user friendly I would say, but your options for class/build differentiation are also limited somewhat (you can't really have a strong fighter with a good PP pool because then they can become a spellsword or even a mage instead). The same goes for enemies, meaning that it gets harder to design something like an endurance battle focused around spells if the caster's PP pool is supposed to be higher. Unless you just give them really weak spells that is. This does come with the added benefit of making classes like the Apprentice series more useful with minimal adjustment needed. Unlike the Intellect patch, there is a patch for GS2 and GS1 so you can actually use this if you want to hack both games.

I haven't actually tried this one so I can't give you any tips if you decide to use it, but it seems to get the job done if you want something easy that functions well and can be used in both games.


Maybe both? No lie, I would love to see how the two patches work with each other.
Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW

Novice Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 14

« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2017, 04:33:20 AM »

Thanks for the explanation, it was preety straight forward.
The proposal for Ivan still remains having an extra turn. I am thinking either give it to him via Jupiter based weapons or via a ring.
To keep the matter iconic, I was thinking it to be a ring found on the Kalay secret passage or dropped by the Toadonpa, since Ivan starts falling behind about in that point in terms of damage. But it's gonna be really hard in terms of balancing, because if Ivan gets an extra turn, he might be able to crush enemies with his psynergy. I might reduce his PP pool and make his class more bent towards dealing damage with his basic attack, but still have a fairly good alternative when it comes to casting spells, but I want that full magic-style to be set on Sheba. Think of it as the hard hitting mage that bursts through his mana but is not instantly useless when he runs out of it(?)

Many ideas on this future patch have the goal of separating Isaac from Felix and Sheba from Ivan, because they were way too much alike.
Originally the idea was to give Sheba another class tree, then I saw the class separation patch.
But I dont wanna get ahead of myself, I am on the mere beggining on TBS, I dont wanna think TLA just yet; However I must delve into TLA and try to figure our how Reflux works.
Items are gonna play a key part in this patch, such as the ''Hammet's Heirloom'' which is the extra turn ring idea I have for Ivan right now. In the meantime...Does anyone know how reflux work? lol, or where is it?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 04:36:18 AM by Manu » Logged
View Profile
leaf
Potions class is starting
Venus Clan

Death Eater+Grass Snake = Snake Eater? SNAAAAAAAKE

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1322

« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2017, 04:35:04 AM »

Quote
Maybe both? No lie, I would love to see how the two patches work with each other.
If they're even compatible together, you'd have to gut spell power across the board to keep it balanced. Having two sources of damage for spells but only one for physical attacks means that spells are going to scale quadratically while physical attacks only scale linearly.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
View Profile
Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 3
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2017, 05:35:11 AM »

Honestly, the way I personally want to do it just isn't possible in a GS hack - it's why I don't work on hacks of my own, but want to make a game separately.

I like the addition of two stats:  Casting and Warding.  These are used as Attack and Defense, but for pure spell attacks.
I want to have psynergy be affected by what weapons you have equipped.  
I want to change summons to be actual summons.  There would be a 'character slot' behind each character, and when they summon that slot is occupied by that summon for four turns.  Only one instance of a summon can be on the battle field at one time (multiple people cannot cast summons like Megaera at the same time).  Attempting to summon something already on the battlefield would result in the call not being answered, and the character be left with their turn wasted (not even defending).  If they drop to 0 HP when their summon is still on the field, the summon vanishes.  Humantype foes can summon as well, and some monster types.
I want to change how djinn work - to make a step in between the djinn and how many you can use.  This opens up the ability to swap out djinn as you need, while also helping to pace the game well.  Ideally, there'd be 4x the number of djinn, but you can only equip the same amount.
I'd like to have several more types of spells - Cover/Counter spells, Enchant spells, Shield spells, and reflect spells.
I've a variety of ailments I'd like to add, and several I'd like to make more powerful and useful.  Ideally, using ailments and debuffs should be just as viable as doing damage, and in some cases far more so.
I've got a lot of changes I'd like to do to enemies and their behaviors.  A lot of inspiration I have comes from D&D 4e, so I'd likely base enemy behaviors on the enemy types there.


@Quadratic Spells:  Leaf makes a good point here.  That's not likely going to be a good idea, unless you want to invert the relationship of physical and spell damage that exists now.  Ideally, they should be equal to one another overall, with some cases preferring physical damage and some preferring spell damage.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 05:37:01 AM by Rolina » Logged

View Profile WWW
Salanewt
His Sexiness
Global Moderator

Oh yeah, baby!

Prodigy
*

Coins: 200
Offline Offline

I am: A part of the organization of Cool Cats, but more of a dog person in reality.
Emblems: Have a nice day.
Posts: 4594

« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2017, 05:57:00 AM »

I mean I know it would be a bad idea but I still want to see it. :D


Reflux: I know a bit of how that works, although I can't remember the details 100%. It's treated as a status effect in character RAM in the same way that stun or delusion are, and has its own action type in the same way that defend, attack, and djinn use do. It also defines an ability to counter attacks with depending on whether a player character or monster has the effect, animation included.

#0812501E = Approximate location for setting Counter-Attack (Reflux) to 0 at the end of the round (I made a patch that removes this mechanic in favour of a turn countdown like other effects).
#08123C68 = Counterattack/Djinn Counter (x09), which is where things like ability ID are defined. It looks like I never added what little I found to the document either. Oops!

It has been a while since I looked into it, and I mostly did that because I was curious about a couple things that I haven't bothered to try coding yet. I'll be returning here pretty soon actually; I want to finish coding the counterattack rate item attribute and I want to make a working Reflect buff that will work the same way as Reflux.


Turn count: Sounds cool. I'm not sure how extra turns granted through gear use and Kite work together, so you may want to test that.
Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW
leaf
Potions class is starting
Venus Clan

Death Eater+Grass Snake = Snake Eater? SNAAAAAAAKE

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1322

« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2017, 08:09:39 AM »

Quote
The proposal for Ivan still remains having an extra turn. I am thinking either give it to him via Jupiter based weapons or via a ring.
Ring is less intrusive, and lets him share weapons with other characters. On the other hand, this also means he doesn't have a ring slot, so if you were planning on doing more with that slot, it would still be pretty invasive.

Personally, I dislike the idea of extra turns as an inherent character mechanic, simply because of how abusive it tends to be. It basically makes *anything* the class does razor sharp, and you end up needing to water it down just to keep it remotely balanced.

Imagine an item like this, that could be equipped by anyone:

Thieves' Ring
(Ring)
- Turns +1
- 0.5x Atk
- 0.8x Max HP
- 0.8x Max PP

Now, what kind of character would you place this on? You don't get much by spamming the attack command due to the halved atk. You could become a strategic nuker with double AOE psys, but you can't spam cast since you'll run out of PP too quickly, and the second turn would probably come late in the turn order anyway (so it wouldn't be that good for random encounters). So what do you do? Aha, you spam djinn and buffs! It carves out a niche for a character that can only do one thing, but they do it extremely well.

Note, however, since this ring can be equipped by anyone and it has some pretty severe drawbacks, it remains opt-in for the player. There's no clear "oh I definitely need to put this item on *this* character." They might still choose to just not use the item - that's important. GS's classes and itemization is built on the player being able to make characters do *almost* anything, but they tend to excel at certain roles more than others. If you give Ivan an exclusive ring that gives him an extra turn, you *cannot* balance it without pigeonholing him into one build path.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 09:45:29 AM by leaf » Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
View Profile
Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 3
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2017, 06:01:42 PM »

Geez, that seems made for summon spammers.  I think extra turns and turn restriction should be restricted to djinn-only effects, IMO.  Action economy is rather important, and these effects (kite, ground, etc) are powerful as hell.
Logged

View Profile WWW

Novice Member
*

Coins: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 14

« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2017, 06:09:10 PM »

I forgot to mention, Ivan is the only person who will be able to equip it. And summons WILL be nerfed. If not, removed.


Thanks mr Squirtle, I'll be texting you soon. :D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:23:27 PM by Manu » Logged
View Profile
leaf
Potions class is starting
Venus Clan

Death Eater+Grass Snake = Snake Eater? SNAAAAAAAKE

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1322

« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2017, 04:06:47 PM »

Quote
I forgot to mention, Ivan is the only person who will be able to equip it.

You didn't forget to mention it. I'm trying to tell you that it's not balanceable. The ring item I posted there pigeonholes a character into spamming djinn. They will do it *extremely* well, at the detriment of everything else - perhaps even to the point of being overpowered. But if you *don't* make them laser-focused on one task, the character becomes blatantly overpowered in *every* respect, rather than just the one.  The fact that even with the *massive* drawbacks it might still be too strong should tell you something here.

Limiting an item with that much power to a single character just serves to make that character mandatory in all parties, which defeats the original purpose of making all characters viable. Even if you *do* somehow manage to balance it, that character will be completely incapable of deviating from their expected build path, which limits options. Either way, player agency is taking a hit.

Quote
And summons WILL be nerfed. If not, removed.
Why bother hacking GS at all if you're just going to remove summons? Sure, they could use a nerf, but djinn and summons are core gameplay mechanics that define GS as a series. If you remove them, there's nothing left to make GS stand out from any other generic RPG.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 04:28:35 PM by leaf » Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
View Profile
Fox
Fox McCloud, the Hacking Doctor
Mercury Clan

Prodigy
*

Coins: 1000
Offline Offline

I am: certainly not a Gallant!
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 2468

« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2017, 06:56:31 PM »

It is basically "Easy mode"?

I wouldn't mind seeing breakable rings (or whatever) that upon use, give a one-time effect until repaired. That way, you only use them for bosses and such? But whether this is a good idea or not is up to who's making the system.
Ring ideas: (Applied on the following Round. , and then breaks 100% of the time.)
-Give two turns next round.
-Double a stat for one turn only...  per ring (Attack/Defense/Speed/Agility) (e.g. If ever say... Garet were to use the Attack Ring on himself, don't forget about Def Down spells on enemies.... and other buffs.)
Isaac Silly Garet, get Ivan to use it on you? Provided he survives this next attack. Then again, I guess that's where my Def Ring comes into play. But if I'm going to use the Def Ring, then maybe I should just use the Attack Ring on you instead. :P *Isaac uses Attack Ring on himself* Nevermind! This battle's all mine!

-Do what Summons does with HP % damage.... - Maybe 10% max HP damage.
-Fully heal and/or revive a character (Would be an idea, if there were no other ways to heal, ... )
-Ring of Wealth? (Only because RuneScape... :P) ... (Better drops/coins?/Double drop chance?/Receive double items...  I dunno... Could be too useful, or useless... Either way, who says we can't have a few easter eggs in my examples? By the way, Happy Easter! (Week early.)) ...

And make sure none of the rings are renewables so you can only use them max once a battle.... (And the breaking effect makes it so you can use it again after repairing, unlike consumable items where you can buy/get more... which would mean the ability to use more than one in a battle.)

(Not determining whether any of these are balanced or not atm.)

Whether certain rings are only usable by certain characters, or whether the effects are decided based on the character, who knows.... and that'd be going a few (unnecessary?) steps further than what silly idea I thought of...

And tell people to use these for "Easy mode" and not use these for Hard mode.. :P
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 08:17:08 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
View Profile
Salanewt
His Sexiness
Global Moderator

Oh yeah, baby!

Prodigy
*

Coins: 200
Offline Offline

I am: A part of the organization of Cool Cats, but more of a dog person in reality.
Emblems: Have a nice day.
Posts: 4594

« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2017, 08:53:05 PM »

I feel like the easiest way to attempt to balance an item granting extra turns would be to make it so the item also curses you and maybe makes you a little slower or weaker.

For reference:
- Curse blocks your ability to act 1/4 of the time.
- A second turn will only use half of your agility (plus RNG to randomize it slightly).

So I have three ring ideas that could theoretically work.

Ring Concept (A):
- Cursed; can be removed

- Turns +1
- 0.6x Agility
- 0.2x Luck

Ring Concept (B):
- Cursed; can be removed

- Turns +1
- 0.6x Max HP
- 0.6x Defence
- 0.6x Agility

Ring Concept (C):
- Cursed; can be removed

- Turns +1
- 0.6x Attack
- 0.6x Agility
- -75 Jupiter ePower


For each ring, while you will have more turns than you would without the ring on average, they become less reliable. The player will have to be careful when using them because certain strategies may fail, and sometimes it may fail Ivan entirely. Each ring also makes Ivan slower, so that it becomes harder to abuse the ring by acting before enemies do.

For Ring A, Ivan also becomes more susceptible to status ailments so he is easier to incapacitate, assuming enough enemies have status ailments to the point where this would be a real detriment. I would throw something else onto the ring but I can't think of anything in particular; maybe boosted encounter rate so wearing the ring is also more annoying?

For Ring B, Ivan also becomes physically weaker, which is helpful assuming that most enemies either remain physical fighters or at least retain a steady arsenal of physical attacks. He will be more susceptible to damage and be at greater risk of death.

For Ring C, Ivan also becomes less powerful. This will not only make it harder for him to abuse the unleash system by attacking constantly, but his dominant element will likely become his weakest one meaning that the player will want to experiment with djinn and the class system in order to keep him useful. This comes with the added benefit of discouraging djinn and summon abuse on him, or at the very least summon rushing.


I would personally vote for Ring C if based on vanilla GS, but the others could work as well depending on how you balance gameplay.


Edit: Something that might work for Ring A is to decrease critical/unleash rate, assuming you can enter negative numbers and have it work properly. That way it also becomes harder to abuse unleashes, although I still feel that Ring C would be the best of the three under normal circumstances.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 08:59:30 PM by Lord Squirtle » Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW
Fox
Fox McCloud, the Hacking Doctor
Mercury Clan

Prodigy
*

Coins: 1000
Offline Offline

I am: certainly not a Gallant!
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 2468

« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2017, 09:17:54 PM »

I get the feeling most of those turn the ring into Hard Mode... so basically the opposite extreme? (Esp. if the enemy does counter-strike.)

Or, put simply... Why not just a simple ~25% (?) chance to have a second turn? (But the second turn being weakened/etc.)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 09:23:08 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
View Profile
Salanewt
His Sexiness
Global Moderator

Oh yeah, baby!

Prodigy
*

Coins: 200
Offline Offline

I am: A part of the organization of Cool Cats, but more of a dog person in reality.
Emblems: Have a nice day.
Posts: 4594

« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2017, 03:17:09 AM »

I don't know, the extra turn bonus and the fact that curse isn't 50/50 or greater makes it feel like none of those would be hard mode.

The chance idea sounds okay enough, but I don't see how it's that different from the others aside from the second turn being even less reliable. Would you mind explaining it a bit more?
Logged

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?
View Profile WWW
Fox
Fox McCloud, the Hacking Doctor
Mercury Clan

Prodigy
*

Coins: 1000
Offline Offline

I am: certainly not a Gallant!
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 2468

« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2017, 04:26:13 AM »

I am not sure either... just I had this feeling... might have been because of how some things read out....
"The player will have to be careful when using them because certain strategies may fail"...
"maybe boosted encounter rate so wearing the ring is also more annoying?"

But a 20% extra damage at the cost of those? (Or maybe not 20% extra if Jupiter ePower kills it. .. Which in the case of Ivan, Jupiter would likely give him the best Attack rating originally? So what would it be in a different element with the proper djinn in comparison to best damage without the ring? ...  - And don't forget this is also replacing any other ring that could give a bonus.)  Hmmm.... I am not sure if it is worth it or not if you can't guarantee something you know you want to make sure happens... (You could lose both your turns, even.... if you're unlucky. - But mine makes sure you have at least one turn.) - The need to spend adequate (or more) time on experimenting and setting-up stuff to be able to make any decent use of an item (at all), contributes to a "Hard Mode" philosophy, in my opinion. (Not that it is actually Hard Mode, though.) ... - But again, as this is my thoughts on the surface, I would still need to do some real research/studying of that to know what my final/true opinion would be...

---

It's basically "The power of the ring has slowed down time enough to give you a chance to make a swift move." = Not enough time for a focused attacked, so therefore we can weaken it. Was possibly thinking 50% damage as an example, but I dunno. (So I estimate +1/8th average usefulness if assuming 25% chance? Considering possibly 10% chance, though.... After taking a look at current rings.)

In one way, I feel like if there was a reduction in Elemental powers... it should maybe be in the other three elements / With a possible increase for Jupiter. (Albeit, not much... +2? ... As a way of referencing "2 turns" in a silly way. But I'm not recommending this/depends.) Assuming that the ring is a Jupiter item. (Speed and extra turns I assume is Jupiter-like.)
In another way, drawing the power of Jupiter is more like using up ammunition. ... However, if such an item were usable by everyone, wouldn't this encourage giving it to the PC with the lowest Jupiter stat already? (Mercury PCs?)
It's possible the game itself may have a number of contradictions as well... so in actuality, you could do anything.


--
So are these the only Rings that don't break?
GS1: Cleric's Ring (Out of 7 rings)
GS2: Cleric's Ring, Guardian Ring (Out of 14 rings)

Only the Guardian Ring raises Defense (4), and none of them raise Attack.
All rings are equipable by everyone, and the "Break" rings seem to rely on a Use effect. The non-breakables have an equipped effect:
Cleric's Ring = Curse is removable
Guardian Ring = + Max HP 20

So is the Guardian Ring the best ring to wear?? ... Hm.

Just something to think about when making rings.

(Maybe the Double Turn ring is supposed to be an end-game item? No idea.)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 06:33:22 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
View Profile
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Cbox
February 17, 2020, 04:54:34 AM
Fox: I guess one thing this game has going for it is the Day and Night cycle.
February 17, 2020, 04:51:46 AM
Fox: Also, I noticed since the very beginning of the game, that usually the dresser drawers (whatever you call them) have items in them.
February 17, 2020, 04:48:20 AM
Fox: (And I only recently got Karn, the fourth PC.)
February 17, 2020, 04:36:01 AM
Fox: Was playing Breath of Fire I.... and I must say.... that game's pretty bland.... listening to the same songs basically everywhere... and multiple NPCs saying the exact same thing.  Most of it plays about the same... a maze with common useless items in chests, maybe you'll get one or two fine equipment, but yeah.  ... I want to check #II again later, the game I remember playing like... over a decade ago.
February 04, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Salanewt: We're more active on the Discord though.
February 04, 2020, 08:06:01 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey! It does, yeah.
February 02, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
Mastermind: holy crap this place still exists?
December 24, 2019, 09:33:09 PM
Fox: Even just plain Editor work can make some difference. = At least these forums are indexed on the Search engine. I was also curious about whether to um... go through all the topics on these forums and take all the important stuff out/placed into a folder for a bit of organization. Would be a bonus since if something ever happened to this forum, or if we ever wanted to start afresh again, it wouldn't be that difficult to do so.
December 24, 2019, 09:23:03 PM
Fox: One thing is for sure. This place has become completely dead. (Mostly because of Discord.)  = I don't think much will happen with this forum unless I, Salanewt, or someone else does a thing.
December 24, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Fox: Probably not?
December 24, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Luna_blade: I suppose this is the last Christmas of this forum? 
December 24, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
Luna_blade: Yay thanks for the coins
December 19, 2019, 04:39:45 AM
Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.
December 18, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Foreclosure: gsmagic is fine
December 17, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*
December 17, 2019, 05:35:04 PM
Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.
December 17, 2019, 05:12:55 PM
Fox: "Misc. GS Hacking" = That name looks odd, so I'd probably just go with "Golden Sun Hacking"
December 17, 2019, 05:08:05 PM
Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)
December 17, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)
December 17, 2019, 04:48:49 PM
Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.
December 17, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.
December 17, 2019, 04:40:26 PM
Fox: categories and/or forums
December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.
December 17, 2019, 04:33:03 PM
Fox: (I still think The Community section fits best at the bottom. =P)
December 15, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
Salanewt: Heya! I'm planning to get the demo up today, but if you can't wait then it's already available on the Discord.
December 15, 2019, 04:12:27 AM
Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)
December 15, 2019, 04:06:19 AM
Fox: I'd buy up all the stock for each item too... but man... I think I'm too lazy for that. =P
December 15, 2019, 04:01:24 AM
Fox: There we go. That should be all of them.
December 15, 2019, 03:25:32 AM
Fox: Duplicates will still show up as separate entries on the profile as well. Interestingly enough.
December 15, 2019, 03:18:25 AM
Fox: (Well, one of each badge, at least.)

Affiliates
Temple of Kraden Golden Sunrise
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.271 seconds with 22 queries.