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Started by Baransu, 06, April, 2017, 09:14:15 AM

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Baransu

I haven't quite figured out Camelot's approach to things as yet but there's definitely some sort of general pattern that they tend to take when balancing out spells. For example the 3rd stage spells in the Growth/Blast/Douse/Slash lines all cap out at around 110-120 power and have roughly the same PP costs and the same goes for Plasma, Cool and Beam all capping out at around 170-180 power on their last spells. Spell levels also seem to be fairly consistent between the classes too since you can basically expect every class with the Volcano line to learn it at around levels 8, 22 and 48 respectively.

There's definitely going to be case by case thing since stuff like Ply would be learnt earlier in say the Water Seer line compared to the Swordsman line. But I definitely think that keeping spells around the same general range within their respective tiers and spreading them out accordingly would help sort out the problem a bit. For example one mage would have Prism and another could have Cool which are both T3 spell lines, and while they'd both hover around the same basic power values for the first two tiers, the one with Prism would win out at the end since Cool trades its power for range at the last step.

I definitely do agree with you about the enemy group size being a problem since GS doesn't really take advantage of the enemy size cap outside of cases where the boss or whoever could call for reinforcements which is probably why increasing it is probably a good idea.

leaf

Remember the sprite limit exists. You can only have up to 6 small enemies on screen at once, and medium enemies count as two small enemies. This isn't a game balance limit, but rather a hardware limit.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

I like your strategy!

Also, pretty much what leaf said. From what we understand we have the following limits:
6 small
3 medium (1 medium = 2 small as seen in the Star Magician fight)
1 large/double with 1 small (at least based on a battle I tried to make with a Kraken and two Cuttle enemies).

It might be possible to have four medium enemies if they are encountered before you have a full party, although I am not sure if anyone has tested that before.


This is something I want to look into someday so we have a better understanding of it, but for now I have other goals that are more important so... yeah. :P
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Baransu

I wasn't really intending on reaching the hardware caps on the enemy groups although it is good to know what they are. My plan was to basically increase the variance in enemies that show up in random encounters so players would get a chance to properly take advantage of the higher range spells.

On that note after taking a look at the spell damage range in vanilla, it seems like there's a spell damage variance of about 5-10 in the lower tiers and 10-20 in the higher ones. The middle tier is kind of all over the place since the upgrades don't really follow a regular pattern so certain spell series get a huge power jump (most notably Whirlwind).

It would probably be fairer to group them up like this for the first step
Quake, Flare, etc: 20-25
Froth, Spire, etc: 30-35
Gaia, Volcano, etc: 40-45
Fume, etc: 50

I haven't quite figured out the pattern yet when it comes to going from stuff like say Quake to Earthquake or Earthquake to Quake Sphere but it shouldn't be too hard providing that I stick to the pattern that Camelot seems to use.

Salanewt

#44
Okay, my last exam is done so...

Just to make sure, the main bug is related to text right? Did you use two different buff effects between the first two pictures? Do any of them work correctly or did I mess all four of them up?

Edit: I can double check the duration code after I fix the text issue.


Edit 2: So I just tested effects 39 and 41; 39 (debuff) seems to work fine while 41 (the buff) shows it as a negative value. I don't think it should take too long for me to fix it.

Edit 3: Though, I'm also not seeing what the issue is in the code which is weird. It might be an issue with how I have the instructions maybe? I'll let you know later.


Edit 4: Looks like bad calculations, so I'll fix the remaining two effects and update the patch.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Salanewt

#45
So, an update: I completely forgot that the version of VBA I use has an error and actually swaps the labels for two instructions, so my code was showing the right calculation but it was actually messing up. That has been fixed, so now I'm just going to double check the recovery stuff and update the patch. Shouldn't take too long if all goes well!

Edit: I just tested and it seemed to end after a few turns sometimes, so it's not really out of the ordinary but I can look around a bit longer just to be sure.

Edit 2: As far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with the code that defines ailment recovery rates. The Intellect debuffs should have a base 30% chance to recover on any round, just like the Attack debuffs. I guess it's time to update the patch so the text bugs are no longer present! I also attached it to this post so you don't have to hunt it down in the downloads section. :p
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Baransu

Thanks a lot for the help, although the problem seems to have appeared again with effect 40.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#47
The instruction at 08121596 should probably be sub r1, r1, r3. (Is only messed up for effect 40?)

The error was: sub r1, r3, r1 (That would be fine with buffs... and it seems the effect 39 debuff has it already corrected to sub r1,r1, r3.)
difference = current - previous (Where current is smaller than previous in the event of debuffs. ... Imagine: 2-3 = Oh wait, it is always negative.... :D)


Thought:  It almost feels like there could have been a universal buff/debuff calculation formula to simplify things a bit. (Probably also helps with bug testing in the long run as well?)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Salanewt

Oops, I forgot about that error; fixed!
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?