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Golden Sun Hacking Community > The Editor > Golden Sun Hacking > Topic: Three Ideas for Balancing Summons
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Fionordequester

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« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2017, 10:02:26 PM »
Quote from: Rolina on August 13, 2017, 09:44:15 PM
Whereas I fundamentally disagree - if a reward is useless, then it's not a worthy reward, especially if the price of the reward is facing a boss as cheap as Dullahan.  Why bother fighting it?  Once you know how pointless the reward is, then there's no point in even bothering unless you're doing a completionist run.  Might as well have been given a crumpled piece of paper saying "you beat dullahan, good for you", since that would be equally as useful as a reward.

Exactly.  It'd be like how Deadbeard's Demon Mail is like, the most worthless thing ever (and is, in fact, actually detrimental, since Elemental resistance trumps raw Defense).
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2017, 08:28:41 AM »
Considering the whole point of beating bonus bosses for many people is to say they did it, I think it's fine. The reward is knowing that you were able to beat the game's superboss, which is honestly a better reward than *any* item you could give the player at that point. Something awesome but impractical is *preferable* for this kind of situation, since the player isn't going to have anything left to use it on anyway.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
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[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
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[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Rolina
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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2017, 10:56:59 AM »
Eh, easiest thing to do is make Iris useful - a 6-7 djinn cost Iris does that.  At double the cost, it's pointless.
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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2017, 10:25:27 PM »
No, the "easiest thing to do" is to leave it exactly as it is. Too many designers get worked up about giving every possible quest a gameplay-related reward. Sometimes, it's better to give the player a reward in the form of feedback - a cool cinematic, some story, etc, rather than something that directly impacts the gameplay. In a lot of cases, this feedback reward is more valuable to a player than getting a new shiny weapon. For many players, Iris is just that - it's a cool cinematic with an "apparently" broken effect.

And for the small segment of the playerbase that manages to beat Dullahan but somehow falters on the Doom Dragon, it's very practical to summon using your second party. If you put the djinn on standby beforehand, you can turn 1 Iris after a wipe. It's conventionally more useful than any other 7+ djinn summon in the game.
Logged
Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
View Profile
Rolina
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Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2017, 08:58:25 AM »
We're just not going to agree on this then.
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Fionordequester

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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2017, 04:29:16 PM »
I actually agree with Rolina on this...but it's not terribly important either way.  Endgame rewards liek those are such a minor part of the game, that's it's like "oh well".
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Golden Sun Hacking Community > The Editor > Golden Sun Hacking > Topic: Three Ideas for Balancing Summons
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