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Author Topic: [WIP] blanky's formulas  (Read 795 times)
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blanky-blank
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« on: October 18, 2018, 03:43:20 AM »

Currently laying some groundwork for a hack centered around improving replayability and the hard mode feature. It would probably take forever for me to actually finish a full hack, given my busy schedule, but I plan on implementing the features one by one and releasing mini-patches so that nothing goes to waste either way. (The semi-randomized enemy drops patch was the first of these mini-patches.)

But every hack needs a mechanical foundation. So basically I plan on overhauling a variety of formulas in the game to achieve a semblance of balance. Yes, more formula hacks seems redundant. Stay with me here. Note that these are, as of right now, all very rough drafts. I would love it if the community could give me feedback or ideas for better implementation.

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THE BASELINE
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HP & Atk stat growths are assumed similar to vanilla.
Def stat growth is assumed doubled from vanilla. (see:Physical damage)
Casting is a new stat. (see:"Magic" damage)
Agility is now capped at 255.
PP may or may not be reduced subjectively.

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Physical damage: [(Lv*8+Additive modifier)(Atk/Def)*Multiplicative modifiers]
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The italicized portion (Atk/Def) would be capped at a minimum of 0.5 and a maximum of 1.5. This formula shifts the value of the Defense stat so that it's every bit as good as attack, rectifying the obvious imbalance between the class multipliers for the two stats. Not counting modifiers like resistance the formula acts as follows:

--(~200) damage at level 50 if Atk/Def equals 0.5 or less
--(~400) damage at level 50 if Atk/Def equals 1.0
--(~600) damage at level 50 if Atk/Def equals 1.5 or greater

--(~396) damage at level 99 if Atk/Def equals 0.5 or less
--(~792) damage at level 99 if Atk/Def equals 1.0
--(~1184) damage at level 99 if Atk/Def equals 1.5 or greater

I got the idea of Atk/Def as an equalizer from the Pokemon damage formulas.

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"Magic" damage: [Base*Rand(1.0 to 1.25)*4(CurrentCastStat/MaxCastStat)*Modifiers]
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The italicized section is capped at a minimum of 1.0. CastStat refers to a new stat, similar to Intellect in Salanewt's patch. The idea here is that until you pass 25% of the max stat (so probably 250) the psynergy would do its base damage, modified only by a small amount of randomness (to make it feel less controllable than physical attacks). But after that it would gradually increase to its final damage of about 4*Base. Ignoring resistances a psynergy with a base power of 200 would act as follows:

--(200-250) damage at <250 CastStat
--(400-500) damage at ~500 CastStat
--(800-1000) damage at 999 CastStat

Keep in mind that base powers can be modified suitably. The goal here was just to implement scaling properly. I took inspiration from some of the newer Dragon Quest games for this formula, since they too once lacked a proper magic stat before adding one in.

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Healing: [Base*Modifier*(1+CurrentCastStat/MaxCastStat)]
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Yep. Scaled healing. Note that base powers would be modified properly to fit this model. The differences between Mercury and non-Mercury would also be less drastic, probably by substantially nerfing Mercury. It's okay for Mercury healing to be slightly stronger but it shouldn't render other healers inviable.

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Enemy stat growth: [Growth*Level(1+Level/100)]
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The section in italics is capped at 1.5. The idea here is to have every enemy's stats calculated and save those results to RAM instead of having fixed stats. Why bother? Because by adding subroutines for (level+a IF flag is set) you can have monsters that grow stronger as you progress through the plot AND that can scale properly for a New Game+ mode. Instead of vanilla's total cop out x1.5 Atk/HP mode.

Are you wondering what the italicized section is for? It's to simulate character growth. While you keep getting djinn and classing up, monsters don't get that luxury. So instead they're given a modifier based on their level that reaches 1.5 at level 50 and then stops. (This way monsters never become totally insurmountable after you STOP getting new djinn.)

Note that this could also save a few bytes in monster data (if those hardcore hackers really need them) because growth stats should never come close to the monster's original stats. This might also indirectly remove the caps from monster stats, depending on how it's coded. Not sure.

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Ailments
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Easy option: Simple Success Rates patch+Enemy Specific Immunities patch

New option: Give each monster a resilience stat (0-100). Change the status formula to (Base acc-Resilience). Which should save substantial space since that's a simple formula. And here's the fun part. Give every monster a "family" byte that determines which abilities they are and are not immune to. Families would be things like Boss, Dragon, Aquatic, etc.

And of course it would have the same benefits as the enemy specific immunities patch. Want a lightning unleash that always paralyzes flying enemies? Done. How about a bait item that distracts animal type enemies? Gotcha. A holy themed psynergy that instantly removes undead enemies from your sight? Say no more fam.

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Dodge rate: [Agility/(Level/20)=Dodge chance]
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This one's definitely a work in progress and may or may not see the light of day. The general assumptions are (A) dodge success will be checked BEFORE unleash rate so agile monsters can effectively dodge late game uses of the attack command, (B) items will be modified to restrict access to broken agility boosts in the early game, and (C) class modifiers for agility are kept modest, maybe even within a -20% to +20% margin.

The core goal here is to make agility just as worth optimizing as the other stats. Instead of just determining turn order, this change would allow players to toss some end-game agility focused gear on a Ninja and turn it into an honest to goodness dodge tank build.

A hard cap of perhaps 50% dodge rate is probably necessary. But these so called dodge tanks are still vulnerable to everything except normal attacks...unless I can set a value on the monster skill EPAs that allows them to skip to a dodge animation as well. No promises.

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Other changes
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Summons. Nerfing. Question is how. On Discord we discussed several options, from implementing a special meter, to inverting the damage formula so they only do their full damage to weakened enemies, to implementing a "disabled" mode for djinn instead of out of battle standby, to just reducing or flat out removing the HP modifier. It's hard to find an answer that feels right because summons are integral to the game but BROKEN AS THE GOLDEN GUN.

Personally I'm leaning toward the inverted damage formula, with a few modifications to allow summon rushing to still be an option without being THE option.

ELevels would probably be removed from all formulas, as it's otherwise wasted space on enemies. Ailment recovery might just be a set number of turns, or perhaps based on agility or the new casting stat. Dunno yet.

I might also add a formula that factors in both Atk and CastStat. This would be useful for a few things, like making maces and light swords that feel right on both melee and mage characters.

Last, and honestly least, I want to move the equipment calculations so that multipliers only apply to the character, not the equipment. The fact that Sol Blade can have anywhere from 160-340 attack depending on Felix/Isaac's class does not make sense to me. It's the same sword. Ancient magical swords of legend don't just randomly lose their sharpness because you happen to be holding a black book.

This is all I have for formula discussion at the moment. Please tell me about every mistake I made in my calculations and assumptions. Thank you.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:57:39 AM by blanky-blank » Logged
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September 10, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
Fox: Small corrections = If those images were uploaded via an account, you can still get them ... but Sept 16 is the last day.
September 10, 2019, 12:27:46 PM
Fox: I'm suprised many of the badges weren't put on the server... and now that tinypic has deleted them, they're gone forever. xD
September 05, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Frog: wow, it's nice to see this place is still around :o
September 05, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
Fox: "them" as in their posts.
September 05, 2019, 12:07:03 PM
Fox: As in... look at all those users.... paiseo, notto1122,    jirapon, pubg1, nutseo6.... All of them. Are spambots with Thai language in them. xD So many of them... and nothing productive coming from any of them.  I bet it's the same person.
September 04, 2019, 08:48:35 PM
Fox: Every post with Thai language in it. I'm going to immediately assume is spam. For now one, until proven otherwise. xD
August 22, 2019, 12:53:38 PM
Omx7: A shame that I only recently discovered this website. Hopefully, we see Golden Sun 4 in the near future.
August 15, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Fox: Golden Sun Slacking Community = I like that, Misery! Perfect April Fools joke?
August 13, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey Atrius, long time no see!
August 12, 2019, 11:37:45 PM
Fox: (Someone else discovered that, not me.)
August 12, 2019, 11:33:42 PM
Fox: So um. It looks like abilties in the class editor are being put back in as a byte for GS1?
August 12, 2019, 08:02:58 PM
Fox: Also, it seems most of us have moved to the Discord. In case if you were wondering where the forums activity went. Maybe come by and check it out. But it is just a suggestion, you don't have to.
August 12, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Fox: I figured that was a possibility. If you are guesting, it is hard to know how frequently you check back. It's great to hear from you, though. :)   What have you been up to?  Is Forgotten Dreams still being worked on, or has that been cancelled? (I'd guess you don't have much time for it. It's been years since we've last heard about it.)
August 12, 2019, 12:48:12 AM
KingAmiti: Still great work Atrius :)
August 11, 2019, 06:45:03 PM
Atrius: This place was a HUGE part of my life, and even though I don't have the time that it really deserves to take care of it, I will love it forever, and never forget about it..
August 11, 2019, 05:16:34 PM
Atrius: If anyone wants to make a replacement site then go for it.  Although I plan to keep this place up for the foreseeable future, it isn't really maintained anymore.
August 11, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
Atrius: Sometimes he comes by and looks around without logging in.
August 08, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
Fox: Does Atrius still come here? He hasn't logged in since last year. Maybe it is time to create a replacement site so we can have our full encyclopedia... Then again, I'm too lazy. Especially to get all that done by myself. :/
July 06, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Salanewt: Oh, yeah there isn't an animation overhaul for GS1 sadly.
July 03, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
ryancaesar12345: GS2 Animation Overhaul w/ Baseline  ips patch in golden sun 1?

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