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Author Topic: Some Questions about Formulas  (Read 806 times)
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« on: March 23, 2019, 06:57:19 AM »

I was wondering about some odd details that I need to complete a spreadsheet I'm working on.  Sorry in advance if I accidentally break a rule here,  or posted in the wrong spot, or if these questions have been answered elsewhere in the forums.  I'm new here :s

1. For weapons that have multiple unleash effects, what are the exact probabilities for each?  I found Excalibur's probabilities on the wiki: 40% for 1x damage, and 60% for 3x damage.  Also found the probabilities for the Tisiphone Edge (30% for 1x, 20% for 2x, 50% for 3x).  What about the Masamune, Swift Sword, and Bandit's Sword?  Also, are those percentages rounded to a fraction out of 256?  I was also wondering the same thing regarding secondary effects of Djinn, like the chance for Gust to deal double damage.

2. I read in a post on Weapon Variabilities here that weapon effects have half the base% chance of working as dedicated spells, eg. Blinding Smog from the Righteous Mace would have half the base chance of causing Delusion as the spell Delude.  I assume that also applies to Djinn unleashes?  But what about things that don't have associated spells, like the health sapping of the Angelic Ankh, or the chance to halve agility from the Hestia Blade? (Actually, the Drain spell saps HP, but I couldn't find the probability for that.)

3. Is there a list of bosses with preset move orders?  The ones I've found so far were Saturos, Manticore, maybe Poseidon (I haven't tested that), Dullahan, and the first action of each phase of Doom Dragon (thanks to Plexa).  Are there any others?

4. Crit chance vs Unleash Chance:  The two seem to be used interchangeably elsewhere but in game they're two totally different effects.  How are the probabilities for crits dealt with, for enemies too?

Basically, I'm trying to make something where you can plug in a weapon, and some statistics, and have the spreadsheet tell you the average damage you would deal each attack, factoring in crit chance, unleash chance, average unleash multiplier, and relative power and attack.  I'm also making something where you can plug in a boss, and some statistics on a target, and see the probabilities of each move's effects activating on that target, as well as the average damage that target would take from each of the other moves, and the total average damage per turn.

Apologies again if these questions have already been answered somewhere else, or if I'm not supposed to have this many questions on one post... Thanks for any replies!
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 06:42:16 PM »

Hey there! I'll answer as best I can:

1. I'm not sure; this is just for Dark Dawn though, for the record.

2. Do you have a link for that? I ask because that doesn't feel accurate, but it's entirely possible we need to double check some code. I *think* it might actually be tied to ability formula used (Effect Only may have a higher rate?) but I'd have to verify that.

3. You should be able to check in the editor for that one; Poseidon and Dullahan have sequential patterns, but they are set up a bit differently than other enemies. Poseidon links to a second moveset that it draws from on every second turn, and Dullahan has a random starting point but otherwise chooses moves in a sequential order using three enemy slots. It also uses Defend occasionally, which is a bug with the AI that I haven't fully worked out yet (Defend is what the AI defaults to when it is unable to select a move).

4. Unleashes take precedence over everything else; crits come either after that, or after miss rates. Both critical and miss rates are 1/32 if I recall correctly, though crits are also boosted by crit-boosting gear (not only unleashes).


This spreadsheet project sure sounds interesting!

And it's not a problem at all! Ask away. :P
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2019, 08:58:16 PM »

Thank you again!

Um, yeah, on closer inspection, that Weapon Variabilities post was about suggested balancing things, not actual ingrained mechanics >~<

I only just learned about the editor from these forums, and it seems pretty darn kewl!  I read on the wiki that Dullahan also had a second moveset he draws from when his Psynergy is sealed.  I had to study that for the Dullahan Solo I made o3o.  I'll download the editor and try to figure stuff out I suppose ^-^

I take it that means that three independent random numbers are rolled: one for unleashes, one for crits, and one for missing?  Or do any of them share a random number?  That makes a lot of sense actually, since weapons with unleashes increase the BRN by 4 before landing a hit, although idk what that 4th RN is for.  I have a bunch of questions about RN too.  I would assume that the boost to crit chance from equipment is also additive, rather than multiplicative.  Also how much does Delusion affect the chance to miss?

I have a bunch of questions concerning battle mode too.  Should I make a new post or just have all the questions in this thread?  Btw, I read your master formula list from a while ago ^-^ It might be cool to include the formula for flee chance, some damage formulas, stat formulas, and BRN formulas maybe.
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2019, 02:58:46 PM »

Haha, yeah it's pretty neat! We've already talked about the Dullahan thing over Discord, but I'll reiterate here for anyone else who reads this topic:

Dullahan has a linked moveset that draws abilities from three enemies. When sealed, it will skip psynergy due to the way the AI works. It's not really a second move pool, so much as the game cutting some actions out under the right conditions (the same would happen in a hypothetical scenario where Dullahan has 0 PP). Action selection is also slightly bugged, because the way the AI is set up means that an enemy will always use Defend if it is unable to select a valid action within x number of code loops; this is why Dullahan sometimes uses Defend despite not having it in its move pool.


Critical boosts are indeed additive! I'm not sure how helpful I'd be about random number stuff though; you may have better luck asking someone from the speedrunning community.


As for battle mode, it's up to you! I can always answer questions over Discord, although we could use a topic that goes over some things too; I don't think a lot of people have given it much thought.

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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2019, 06:12:52 PM »

Quote
Critical boosts are indeed additive! I'm not sure how helpful I'd be about random number stuff though; you may have better luck asking someone from the speedrunning community.
All you have to do is put a breakpoint on the function, and see where it is called for all four times... Read the code there to see what it is. (Perhaps using the GS2 Documentation as a generic guide.)


I thought of the random +0 to +3 number... but I think he's referring to before that...  Maybe effect chance.
Too lazy to check right now.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 06:16:39 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 07:11:38 PM »

Lol, well I was mainly referring to this part:

Quote
I have a bunch of questions about RN too.

But yeah, that should help.
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June 17, 2019, 01:49:41 PM
Salanewt: Two weird posts about hacking in a week.
June 17, 2019, 04:34:53 AM
Salanewt: Lol.
June 16, 2019, 06:54:57 AM
Fox: This place is depressingly too quiet.
June 03, 2019, 07:55:18 PM
Fox: I wonder if Atrius would be interested in how my map editor would be shaping up... even if it is a bit.... messy.  - As for Textcomp being compatible with more games.... maybe some day = I would like to do that...., but it isn't on my priority list right now, unfortunately. :(   
May 29, 2019, 10:55:32 PM
KyleRunner: Fox, could you, please, make your Textcomp compatible with more games (Mario Golf and Tennis)? 
May 27, 2019, 10:10:08 PM
Caledor: I released a patch that does just that. It's in the download section
May 26, 2019, 04:47:43 AM
ryancaesar12345: and how to change a elemtal color like steam normal violet change to blue?
May 25, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
ryancaesar12345: i saw in reloaded too many icon replace or changes and shade and flash decrease block damage 60 and 90 to 50 and 60 i think summon % hp damage decrease class separation change the treasure items the effects are change 
May 25, 2019, 02:22:15 PM
Fox: Another thing about the Separation Patch and why we need PC based class type charts = With Atrius's patch = If you set all eLevels to 0, ... then when you get djinn of just one type, and each PC becomes something... well... Jenna/Piers would have the same base classes as Felix/Sheba... ... but this is concept-wise to show that something may be given up.....
May 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Fox: "overwritting it" I mean the data in the buffer... not the originally file you loaded. - That only ever gets overwriting via the Save/Save As buttons.)
May 25, 2019, 02:07:44 PM
Fox: That being said, any newer version made, won't necessarily be compatible to an older version of gsmagic. It all depends on what I do.
May 25, 2019, 02:04:52 PM
Fox: The way I have it now - there's a bit of a space limitation for world map editing... that if the data covers more than what it originally does, it will let you know... (Although, it may only tell you after already overwriting it.) - So I'll need to eventually do fixes for that. But as this is an experiment editor, I'm still willing to release partial completions at times... for sake of concept,
May 25, 2019, 01:59:36 PM
Fox: (The absolute latest version of my editor is WIP/has not been released.... and I was hoping to feature World Map tilemap editing.)
May 25, 2019, 01:55:00 PM
Fox: (Careful with some editors though.... as you'll need to understand GBA is little endian... so some hex editors might show the data as Big Endian.... basically little endian is reverse bytes. (so AA BB CC DD as 8-bit/bytes.... becomes DDCCBBAA as a 32-bit)
May 25, 2019, 01:51:30 PM
Fox: tla editor... bt rather... to google for a hex editor... such as HxD, Windhex, Hex Editor Neo, etc... and use that.... Or you could just do it in VBA's memory viewer for temporary edits. (You can still save the ROM section by saving a dump, and changing from .dmp to .gba, though... but that takes a bit to explain.)
May 25, 2019, 01:49:40 PM
Fox: I thought maybe I would need to clarify.  - gsmagic is my experiment editor.  It can be found on this forum. (e.g. http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2805.0 has it, but is not the latest version of my editor.) ; Those patches - applying them is for making them easier to edit via a hex editor.... Since originally it is done in assembly... a bit of a mess for editing.... , so those patches turn that data into table(s).... ; When I say "hex editor" = No, I don't mean to use the 
May 25, 2019, 01:27:51 PM
ryancaesar12345: i dont understand a thing simple success rate and simple summon  .ips files how to understand? by patch in original rom and view in gs tla editor?
May 25, 2019, 01:26:12 PM
ryancaesar12345: gsmagic? what is that and is that a editor where i can download that?
May 25, 2019, 01:03:43 PM
Fox: gsmagic only really supports GS2 (U) as well... While there is minor support for GS1 (Mainly to view maps), can't really say it counts yet.
May 25, 2019, 01:00:10 PM
Foxhttp://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=59 = And the Simple Summons thing... (Hex editor experience expected..) ... For all three of the hex editor experience stuff... I mean just basic knowledge should be enough to get by.

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