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Author Topic: Some Questions about Formulas  (Read 2147 times)
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« on: March 23, 2019, 06:57:19 AM »

I was wondering about some odd details that I need to complete a spreadsheet I'm working on.  Sorry in advance if I accidentally break a rule here,  or posted in the wrong spot, or if these questions have been answered elsewhere in the forums.  I'm new here :s

1. For weapons that have multiple unleash effects, what are the exact probabilities for each?  I found Excalibur's probabilities on the wiki: 40% for 1x damage, and 60% for 3x damage.  Also found the probabilities for the Tisiphone Edge (30% for 1x, 20% for 2x, 50% for 3x).  What about the Masamune, Swift Sword, and Bandit's Sword?  Also, are those percentages rounded to a fraction out of 256?  I was also wondering the same thing regarding secondary effects of Djinn, like the chance for Gust to deal double damage.

2. I read in a post on Weapon Variabilities here that weapon effects have half the base% chance of working as dedicated spells, eg. Blinding Smog from the Righteous Mace would have half the base chance of causing Delusion as the spell Delude.  I assume that also applies to Djinn unleashes?  But what about things that don't have associated spells, like the health sapping of the Angelic Ankh, or the chance to halve agility from the Hestia Blade? (Actually, the Drain spell saps HP, but I couldn't find the probability for that.)

3. Is there a list of bosses with preset move orders?  The ones I've found so far were Saturos, Manticore, maybe Poseidon (I haven't tested that), Dullahan, and the first action of each phase of Doom Dragon (thanks to Plexa).  Are there any others?

4. Crit chance vs Unleash Chance:  The two seem to be used interchangeably elsewhere but in game they're two totally different effects.  How are the probabilities for crits dealt with, for enemies too?

Basically, I'm trying to make something where you can plug in a weapon, and some statistics, and have the spreadsheet tell you the average damage you would deal each attack, factoring in crit chance, unleash chance, average unleash multiplier, and relative power and attack.  I'm also making something where you can plug in a boss, and some statistics on a target, and see the probabilities of each move's effects activating on that target, as well as the average damage that target would take from each of the other moves, and the total average damage per turn.

Apologies again if these questions have already been answered somewhere else, or if I'm not supposed to have this many questions on one post... Thanks for any replies!
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 06:42:16 PM »

Hey there! I'll answer as best I can:

1. I'm not sure; this is just for Dark Dawn though, for the record.

2. Do you have a link for that? I ask because that doesn't feel accurate, but it's entirely possible we need to double check some code. I *think* it might actually be tied to ability formula used (Effect Only may have a higher rate?) but I'd have to verify that.

3. You should be able to check in the editor for that one; Poseidon and Dullahan have sequential patterns, but they are set up a bit differently than other enemies. Poseidon links to a second moveset that it draws from on every second turn, and Dullahan has a random starting point but otherwise chooses moves in a sequential order using three enemy slots. It also uses Defend occasionally, which is a bug with the AI that I haven't fully worked out yet (Defend is what the AI defaults to when it is unable to select a move).

4. Unleashes take precedence over everything else; crits come either after that, or after miss rates. Both critical and miss rates are 1/32 if I recall correctly, though crits are also boosted by crit-boosting gear (not only unleashes).


This spreadsheet project sure sounds interesting!

And it's not a problem at all! Ask away. :P
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2019, 08:58:16 PM »

Thank you again!

Um, yeah, on closer inspection, that Weapon Variabilities post was about suggested balancing things, not actual ingrained mechanics >~<

I only just learned about the editor from these forums, and it seems pretty darn kewl!  I read on the wiki that Dullahan also had a second moveset he draws from when his Psynergy is sealed.  I had to study that for the Dullahan Solo I made o3o.  I'll download the editor and try to figure stuff out I suppose ^-^

I take it that means that three independent random numbers are rolled: one for unleashes, one for crits, and one for missing?  Or do any of them share a random number?  That makes a lot of sense actually, since weapons with unleashes increase the BRN by 4 before landing a hit, although idk what that 4th RN is for.  I have a bunch of questions about RN too.  I would assume that the boost to crit chance from equipment is also additive, rather than multiplicative.  Also how much does Delusion affect the chance to miss?

I have a bunch of questions concerning battle mode too.  Should I make a new post or just have all the questions in this thread?  Btw, I read your master formula list from a while ago ^-^ It might be cool to include the formula for flee chance, some damage formulas, stat formulas, and BRN formulas maybe.
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2019, 02:58:46 PM »

Haha, yeah it's pretty neat! We've already talked about the Dullahan thing over Discord, but I'll reiterate here for anyone else who reads this topic:

Dullahan has a linked moveset that draws abilities from three enemies. When sealed, it will skip psynergy due to the way the AI works. It's not really a second move pool, so much as the game cutting some actions out under the right conditions (the same would happen in a hypothetical scenario where Dullahan has 0 PP). Action selection is also slightly bugged, because the way the AI is set up means that an enemy will always use Defend if it is unable to select a valid action within x number of code loops; this is why Dullahan sometimes uses Defend despite not having it in its move pool.


Critical boosts are indeed additive! I'm not sure how helpful I'd be about random number stuff though; you may have better luck asking someone from the speedrunning community.


As for battle mode, it's up to you! I can always answer questions over Discord, although we could use a topic that goes over some things too; I don't think a lot of people have given it much thought.

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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2019, 06:12:52 PM »

Quote
Critical boosts are indeed additive! I'm not sure how helpful I'd be about random number stuff though; you may have better luck asking someone from the speedrunning community.
All you have to do is put a breakpoint on the function, and see where it is called for all four times... Read the code there to see what it is. (Perhaps using the GS2 Documentation as a generic guide.)


I thought of the random +0 to +3 number... but I think he's referring to before that...  Maybe effect chance.
Too lazy to check right now.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 06:16:39 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 07:11:38 PM »

Lol, well I was mainly referring to this part:

Quote
I have a bunch of questions about RN too.

But yeah, that should help.
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December 24, 2019, 09:33:09 PM
Fox: Even just plain Editor work can make some difference. = At least these forums are indexed on the Search engine. I was also curious about whether to um... go through all the topics on these forums and take all the important stuff out/placed into a folder for a bit of organization. Would be a bonus since if something ever happened to this forum, or if we ever wanted to start afresh again, it wouldn't be that difficult to do so.
December 24, 2019, 09:23:03 PM
Fox: One thing is for sure. This place has become completely dead. (Mostly because of Discord.)  = I don't think much will happen with this forum unless I, Salanewt, or someone else does a thing.
December 24, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Fox: Probably not?
December 24, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Luna_blade: I suppose this is the last Christmas of this forum? 
December 24, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
Luna_blade: Yay thanks for the coins
December 19, 2019, 04:39:45 AM
Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.
December 18, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Foreclosure: gsmagic is fine
December 17, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*
December 17, 2019, 05:35:04 PM
Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.
December 17, 2019, 05:12:55 PM
Fox: "Misc. GS Hacking" = That name looks odd, so I'd probably just go with "Golden Sun Hacking"
December 17, 2019, 05:08:05 PM
Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)
December 17, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)
December 17, 2019, 04:48:49 PM
Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.
December 17, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.
December 17, 2019, 04:40:26 PM
Fox: categories and/or forums
December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.
December 17, 2019, 04:33:03 PM
Fox: (I still think The Community section fits best at the bottom. =P)
December 15, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
Salanewt: Heya! I'm planning to get the demo up today, but if you can't wait then it's already available on the Discord.
December 15, 2019, 04:12:27 AM
Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)
December 15, 2019, 04:06:19 AM
Fox: I'd buy up all the stock for each item too... but man... I think I'm too lazy for that. =P
December 15, 2019, 04:01:24 AM
Fox: There we go. That should be all of them.
December 15, 2019, 03:25:32 AM
Fox: Duplicates will still show up as separate entries on the profile as well. Interestingly enough.
December 15, 2019, 03:18:25 AM
Fox: (Well, one of each badge, at least.)
December 15, 2019, 03:18:08 AM
Fox: Now I can buy up the whole shop. :3
December 14, 2019, 08:58:08 PM
Foreclosure: Guys, I really want to see the AI overhaul demo... please fast! :D hehehe
December 14, 2019, 08:57:33 PM
Foreclosure: I sent 2 thousand coins for ya bro
December 14, 2019, 01:31:38 AM
Fox: In my opinion, even with the old system where it was set up so you could only coin people once per hour... I think it would have been far more fair if we could have also coined ourselves hourly.... since people have favoritism for certain people.... I feel like that could mitigate it some. At least to get badges that people care about the most. - Unlimited coining sounds like a step further than that, which is interesting... :)
December 14, 2019, 01:12:00 AM
Fox: Do note, that people can't coin themselves... but I feel if you got someone who's willing to transfer the coins you give them back to you... it is as though you have that coin option on yourself anyway....
December 14, 2019, 01:07:29 AM
Fox: Go to any of my forum posts, look for where it says Coins... under that, you'll see [increase] , clicking that will give me coins. You won't lose anything for doing so. Click it as much as you like... Under that, you should see Send Money (a faster option if you got the coins). Use that link to transfer your coins to me of any amount you want. (e.g. Put in 2000, means I get 2000, you lose 2000... but if I've already given you 2000+, you don't really have to see it as actually losing anything.)
December 13, 2019, 03:42:39 PM
Foreclosure: How do I return favor, sir?

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