Isaac in Super Smash Bros Brawl: How would he play?

[Shinigami]

Going back to the original subject:


I think...
Physics
He should be able to jump about as high as Link
Have a medium fast fall speed...
And a running speed slightly faster than Ike's.

Attacks/Moves
He should use his sword in a similar fashion to Ike, but much quicker and slightly less powerful.

I agree, he should use catch to grab enemies and pull towards him, or use it to pull himself towards the stage.

NeutralSpecial- Isaac casts PotentCure. He recovers damage at a rate of around 30% every 3 seconds continuously. The move is terminated when attacked or if the button is released. Isaac should have to rest for about 0.8s upon release. The animation should show a steady stream of golden sparks flowing inwards. Isaac should not have to rest if the move is stopped while he is in the air.

UpSpecial- Isaac casts Planetary. He jumps 2* his usual jump hight into the air and comes crashing down onto the stage at an angle, causing a large explosion on impact. His initial jump should be executed very quickly. This attack should do around 30% damage if the enemy in directly hit. If the enemy is hit in mid-air, they should be 'gathered' by the dragonlike cloud and continually receive around 2% damage(at a rate of 3* per second). The explosion should cause less damage as it spreads out, causing only about 6% damage at the sides. The explosion should spread in all directions, but not through the stage.The explosion should last for about 0.8s. He should stay at the impact point for about 0.5s before straitening up and continuing the fight.

DownSpecial- Isaac casts Teleport. He disappears of stage in a flash of multicolourd light and re-appears a(slightly further than metaknights DimensionalCape) distance away. He is, unlike metaknight, not able to perform an attack upon reappearance but should be able to continue the brawl without delay.

SideSpecial- Isaac casts Odyssey. He emits two rings of glowing blue light, which, upon striking an opponent, paralyze them temporarily. The rings themselves should have a rather short range. Once the rings have dissipated, Isaac executes two smoothly linked strikes, one from up two down and the other visa versa, upon which two small swords appear, orbiting Isaac once (one clockwise, the other counterclockwise) before disappearing. When striking the opponent, they stay at that position until the move is fully executed, pinning the enemy down at that point. Isaac then holds his sword pointing in the direction he is facing, the sword then begins to glow and is overlayed by the odyssey sword. He then rushes forwards at high speed and rams the sword into the enemy. The sequence should take slightly less than 2 second to execute and do around 75% damage.1 second should be taken up by the rings related part of the move. Isaac should have to rest for about 1 second afterwards.

DownSmash- Isaac casts QuakeSphere. He slams his now brown glowing sword into the ground, causing an eruption of stone spikes to spring up around him .The spikes are largest at the centre of the attack and get smaller as the attack spreads out. Damage should be similarly affected. The spikes shatter afterwards, sending shrapnel flying. Charging time greatly increases power, range and spikehight. The attack should do from 10%(lowest charge) to 45%(fully charged) damage.

SideSmash-Isaac casts QuickStrike. He propels himself forwards at blinding speed(slightly faster than marth's FS) and, upon contact with an opponent, slashes using his sword, leaving a streak of blue energy behind the sword. The player should be able to break this attack of at any moment by pressing the attack button. The attack should do around 15% to 30% damage, depending on charge. Isaac should be inactive for about 0.3s after the use of this attack, but only if the strike was actually performed. The actual strike should not be performed if the attack is broken off.

UpSmash- Isaac casts GrandGaia. A fissure opens underneath Isaac, and a blinding light is cast upwards. Flaming rocks of various sizes are then hurled through this fissure upwards. The rocks do damage based on size, with the largest ones doing 2*damage and the smallest only 0.5*. The attack should do around 10% to 30% damage depending on charge. The attack should also vary greatly in range depending on charge. The attack should last for about 2 seconds.

FINAL SMASH spoilers
[spoiler]CruelRuin (why didn't anyone think of this before?)
Isaac begins to glow with blinding light, raises his sword and summons the DOOM DRAGON
The doomdragon then Glows and raises to an off stage area(The camera follows) He/It(the DOOM DRAGON) then executes the CruelRuin battle animation(with, of course, way higher quality)
Around 10 rays of light are then seen crashing into and going through the stage at random, causing roughly 250% damage to anyone they hit. The actual attack has no launch power though. The DoomDragon then crashes into the stage in a similar way as the fusion dragon in golden sun crashes into your characters when using OuterSpace , this causes around 100% damage and launches anyone it touches with the power of a regular smash attack.[/spoiler]

Isaac's grab based attacks should be
GrabUp- He throws the character up and slashes at them with his sword, causing around 10% damage.
GrabDown- He slams the enemy into the floor, then violently stabs them through the chest and twists his blade(no gore/blood of course ), causing 20% to 30% damage.
GrabSide- Isaac releases the foe then follows with a powerful kick to their chest. Should do around 10% damage but launch the opponent strongly.
GrabAttack- Isaac repeatedly smashes the hilt of his sword against the opponents head, causing around 4% damage each time and eventually giving them a broken nose (not really )

I agree with the idea of giving him the Cloak effect while dodging.


PS: Any TLDR comments are not appreciated

These are only my suggestions, and I know I have written most of it as if I would gladly force these ideas onto everyone, but that is not my intention.

[Aile~♥]

Do you have ANY concept of balance? At ALL?

First off, no. Just, no. Odyssey: Final smash power right there.

Basically, his up-special could be teleport, but note that in GS Teleport takes rather a long time. In GS it takes two full seconds to leave your teleport point, and two full seconds to arrive at the destination. Basically, if you wanted to use it, you could give him a cursor to move around during the two-second startup, where he would arrive afterwards. Or, you could reduce it to about 1 second start-up and 1 second endlag.

Planetary: Much too powerful.

Potent Cure: No. Just... NO. Self-healing in smash = broken.

Alternate idea:

sidespecial would be Ragnarok, being chargeable and doing a maximum of probably 20% damage, due to the large area of effect. The more it's charged, the farther away from Isaac it hits.
Downspecial would be Quake. Starts at 1 hit, and can be charged for up to 4 hits. Each hit does 3% damage, and the final hit knocks enemies upward.
neutralspecial would probably be Spire or Gaia. Spire would hit directly in front of Isaac, normally dropping one spire on the target for 5% damage, with an accompanying sword strike for an additional 3%. Charging it would increase the damage of the sword strike, up to a maximum of 6%, and would increase the number of spires dropped, up to a maximum of 5. Gaia would hit on either side of Isaac, increasing in range when charged. Each individual rock would hit for 0-1% damage. Total damage uncharged would average about 3%, or 1% on an edge hit. Total damage fully charged would average about 9%, or 4% on an edge hit.
upspecial: Teleport, Planet Diver or Gaia would go here. Teleport would be like I described above. Planet Diver would send Isaac up about 1.5x his jump height, then he'd come down on an angle, blasting any in his path aside for high knockback (at the same angle Isaac's falling) for about 10% damage. Incidentally, this would be his fastest special, and his only non-chargeable special.

Grab damage: Way too high. Do you have any sense of scale at all? Pummel ought to do 1-2%, or maybe as much as 2-3%. Down throw ought to have, at max, damage of 15%. Side throw damage, at max, should be maybe as much as 9%, but probably closer to 5-7%. Up throw damage is good depending on knockback and speed. The faster or higher knockback the throw, the lower the damage.

[Charon]

I honestly feel that the majority of Isaac's attacks would be like a heavier, slower, stronger version of Marth's, excluding his specials. Up Special could be Planetary (weakened though), and Neutral could be a djinni unleash. Not sure what down or side would be.

His grabs would be similar to Marth, except heavier, slower and stronger as said above. All in all he'd be a heavier Marth. Which is why they probably didn't include him.

[Aile~♥]

Sure, his sword strikes would feel like a heavier Marth, but he would have all those spells.

That, and he'd probably be more inclined to use things other than his sword. Y'know, like punches and kicks. I mean, considering his battle stance, I'd expect that his basic attack combo would be a shoulder tackle into a kick into a sword strike. Or a shoulder tackle followed by two sword strikes. I mean, his left shoulder is already right out there, so a shoulder tackle is the fastest attack he could open with.

[Shinigami]

nope absolutely no sense of balance at all!

although I kind of agree with your point in self healing...


concerning the way too high power, I did include high inactivity time afterwards...


What did you think of the Cruel Ruin idea? good? bad? really bad?

[Aile~♥]

I suppose so, but... 75% damage? You could kill an enemy with one strike after that.

[Charon]

More like one strike and combo later...

[felixsrg]

Hai guis luk wut I foun.

What this is is just the Blue Alloy's model replaced with Isaac's.
I so love how that cape moves!



EDIT: I could have sworn I've posted more here..

Hey is my old Isaac project jeje

I didn't knew this thread existed, I'm still working on SSBB Isaac if you are interested, is just that I need a PSA hacker to start working in the sword and item glitch, I just can't find a person in the SSBB hacking forums which could be interested in Isaac, so the progress is slow.

[leaf]

Sword and item glitch? Are you sure that's a PSA-related problem? It doesn't sound like it. I consider myself pretty good with PSA, but I'm not so good with brawlbox (I use it primarily as an animation viewer...), and have never done vertexing or messing with models, really, so I don't think I could help... if you want help with coding the specials and stuff, though, I could probably do that.

[felixsrg]

I'm sure is a PSA problem, the only way Isaac can handle a sword is by replacing one of his graphic effects with a sword model (ie. beam sword) the glitch is that his sword is static in his hand, and it won't animate when he slashes (sometimes it just goes throug his body).

And the move Psynergy attack makes Isaac bones to move up for a sec.

[leaf]

Did you try tying the graphic effect to a different bone?

[Charon]

Yeah, it sounds like it isn't attached properly. Like as if it's attached to TopN.

(also, the video is really quite awesome, it seems like the animations are based off of Pit's?)

[Shinigami]

Fair point...
Do you think reflux is a good idea for the normal special?

[Charon]

Fair point...
Do you think reflux is a good idea for the normal special?

I think that'd be more akin to Marth's/Ike's down special, and it'd probably be a down special anyhow because usually down specials are abilities with unique effects (Fox/Falco/Wolf's reflector, Pit's Shield, Pokemon Trainer/Zelda ect. switching out...)

[felixsrg]

The sword is attached to the hand bone, the same Link uses for the sword glow.

The problem is, when Isaac slashes sometimes the sword goes into the wrong direction.