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Pokémon!

Started by Ninja Steve, 02, January, 2010, 07:42:57 PM

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Rolina

I think that HM effects should have a separate category altogether.  Like, say...

Four Attack moves
Four Field moves

If you learn an attack move that has a field effect, it's automatically inserted into the field moves category (like Dig).  When you boot up an HM, you get the option of either it being an Attack Move or only a field move.  This way Flash can return to being an HM, yet still be useful.

Durza

Another option would be for gym badges to just let any pokémon who can learn the move use it in the field, like beating a the first gym allows you to Cut in the field as long as one of your pokémon is capable of learning the move, without having to waste one of your moves slots on a HM you only use to get a few items and shortcuts.
It's not a lie if you don't want to be believed. You're can't be wrong if you don't think you're right.

Aile~♥

Honestly, before they do anything radical like that, the most obvious fix is simply to let Pokémon forget HM moves the same way they would any other move. Since TMs aren't single use anymore and HMs haven't been since first gen, there's no reason for them not to do that. It's not like you can get stuck by forgetting an HM move and not being able to learn it again, after all.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Well, the method I suggested is meant to imply that.  What makes the HM an HM instead of a TM is that you can have it only be a field move instead of it having to be an attack move - a TM that has field use, on the other hand, takes up an attack slot (if there are no open field slots, you can choose if you want to delete one).

But seriously... Flash, but without the horrible attack move.  Useful.  As.  Hell.

Aile~♥

Flash could potentially be very useful in a battle, since it now has 100% accuracy. BrightPowder, Double Team x6, Mean Look, Flash x6, anyone? Plus Thunder Wave and/or Confuse Ray and/or Attract. Oh-hohohoho! *evil laugh*
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

I could see your point if it lowered accuracy by two stages, but the way I see it now is that it just feels like sand attack to me.  Double Team at least works against a team, but...

Aile~♥

That's because it IS a Sand-attack clone. But it's learned by more Pokémon than Sand-attack is, on account of being a TM, and at the very least its not Kinesis. (Like Flash and Sand-attack, but with only 85% accuracy.)
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

OmegaMinion

Alright, I was directed to this thread by Misery, and I admit, I have not played Pokemon X/Y, but from what I have seen, I do not think it is worth it, especially since every new pokemon game after Gen 2 started go downhill, in my opinion. Ruby,Emerald, and Sapphire were good, it was interesting to see the new graphical style, however, most of the pokemon designs did not sit right with me. Diamond&Pearl, was... well, ok, but did not change much in the way of gameplay, or graphics. Besides that, it sufferes from the same problem as Ruby, Heartgold&Soulsilver are awesome, it is a remake of my favorite pokemon game, Crystal. Black and White... it was just sad, I did not play much of it, and my brother seems to like it very much, The pokemon were horrible, ((EX: A trash bag pokemon, What were they thinking.)), and the graphics were not much better then Diamond&Pearl, and I hate the way they introduced 3-D into it. Pokemon X/Y looks to me like it will suffer from the same problems. ((Besides the point, I hate the 3ds and anything related to it))
I am The Overlord Of Fail, your argument is invalid. 
Not changing my sig untill ShellCore Command EP3 is made [7-26-2012]

Jiten

Quote from: Silverpine on 22, January, 2013, 04:06:11 AM
Cut 'Cut' out. Please. It has to go.

What's wrong with cut

Aile~♥

@OmegaMinion: Diamond and Pearl actually introduced a very important gameplay change by way of the physical/special split. This makes the mechanics behind the battles vastly more intuitive, as well as better-balanced overall with some exceptions. (Poor Sceptile...) And I like how Heartgold and Soulsilver are automatically awesome despite having all the same problems as Diamond and Pearl in that regard.

"EX: A trash bag pokemon. What were they thinking."

I'm sorry, but what does Grimer look like to you? What about Mr. Mime? Jynx? Magnemite? Voltorb? Gens I and II are not without their own faults in regards to Pokémon. Likewise, Gen V has its own share of cool Pokémon as well. Bisharp, Golurk, Braviary, Hydreigon, Snivy, Dewott, and Archeops, to name a few.

3rd Gen had quite a few Pokémon that were just "meh", but it also had some cooler designs, such as Mightyena, Kyogre, and the Eon duo. I personally like Gardevoir as well (and not for furry reasons or anything), but that one's rather iffy from the general fandom perspective.

Pokémon Black and White are well-liked for their story, which is also one of my favourite features of Pokémon Emerald and Pokémon Platinum.

Why do you hate the 3DS so much? Personally, I think the Circle Pad is a great control mechanism, even if it is stolen from the PSP, and the amount of games that are available via download as well as in-store is a great plus, as well.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

OmegaMinion

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 06, March, 2013, 07:26:01 PM
@OmegaMinion: Diamond and Pearl actually introduced a very important gameplay change by way of the physical/special split. This makes the mechanics behind the battles vastly more intuitive, as well as better-balanced overall with some exceptions. (Poor Sceptile...) And I like how Heartgold and Soulsilver are automatically awesome despite having all the same problems as Diamond and Pearl in that regard.

"EX: A trash bag pokemon. What were they thinking."

I'm sorry, but what does Grimer look like to you? What about Mr. Mime? Jynx? Magnemite? Voltorb? Gens I and II are not without their own faults in regards to Pokémon. Likewise, Gen V has its own share of cool Pokémon as well. Bisharp, Golurk, Braviary, Hydreigon, Snivy, Dewott, and Archeops, to name a few.

3rd Gen had quite a few Pokémon that were just "meh", but it also had some cooler designs, such as Mightyena, Kyogre, and the Eon duo. I personally like Gardevoir as well (and not for furry reasons or anything), but that one's rather iffy from the general fandom perspective.

Pokémon Black and White are well-liked for their story, which is also one of my favourite features of Pokémon Emerald and Pokémon Platinum.

Why do you hate the 3DS so much? Personally, I think the Circle Pad is a great control mechanism, even if it is stolen from the PSP, and the amount of games that are available via download as well as in-store is a great plus, as well.

On the topic of the pokemon you listed, Two of them I hate, Namely, Mr.Mime, And Jinx.  As for the problems with Gen II, I never said they are perfect, or even flawless. For example, Clefable, and it's evolution.
Now hold on, let me catch my breath, you think Gen V had any pokemon that are even passable?
... If I were to get into detail with how much I hate the 3-ds, I would he spending an hour on this post, Do not make me do that, Please.
I am The Overlord Of Fail, your argument is invalid. 
Not changing my sig untill ShellCore Command EP3 is made [7-26-2012]

Aile~♥

I do indeed believe that Gen V has a number of Pokémon that are cute and/or cool. Personally, I kind of like Mienfoo, and Axew is cute as well. Tirtouga's evolution (whose name I don't remember) isn't bad either in terms of appearance.

Also, if you hate Trubbish's evolutionary line so much, why is it then that you do not also hate Grimer, Magnemite, and Voltorb? What about Koffing and Weezing? It is the exact same thing. In regards to Mr. Mime and Jynx, I also raise you Lickitung, Magmar, and Electabuzz.

And, um... Clefable's evolution? Forgive me for pointing out that Clefable is the fully evolved version.

And again, I'll say that simply stating that you hate something proves nothing without logical argument. I did not ask to hear how much you hate the 3DS, only why you hate it.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Misery

@Omega: You mostly bring up the graphics and monster designs... there were always those you just didn't want to look at, to pretend they didn't exist. It's easy enough to do so - just don't use them. I personally feel that there's a lot more to the games than the monster designs, even if part of the experience kind of does hinge on them. The fifth gen IMO has a lot more bad ones than good ones, even if they also introduced a few personal favorites of mine... but I think the biggest blow is not being able to access the old crew until the game is practically over. Regardless, ditching the games on that basis alone is something I would consider a mistake.

@Jamie: You can't really argue for opinions, but I think I get what you're trying to say. I'd like to know too - what aspects of the game Omega doesn't like (the designs from what I can tell so far).

Keep in mind we're not trying to decide if Pokémon is good or bad, that's entirely up to personal preference. The only thing that can be said for a fact is that the franchise has been ridiculously successful.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 07, March, 2013, 09:45:45 AMAlso, if you hate Trubbish's evolutionary line so much, why is it then that you do not also hate Grimer, Magnemite, and Voltorb? What about Koffing and Weezing?
Maybe because they look pretty cool and don't have that derp face. It's only really Electrode that looks kind of funny.

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 07, March, 2013, 09:45:45 AM
And, um... Clefable's evolution? Forgive me for pointing out that Clefable is the fully evolved version.
Gonna jump in here and say that since this is the case, I think it's pretty safe to assume he meant Clefairy, and that you shouldn't nitpick so much.

Quote from: Ixion on 06, March, 2013, 04:40:17 PM
What's wrong with cut
Worthless "key" type move that takes a up a move slot and can't be removed freely. I didn't notice it being used very much in the later parts of the more recent games though.

OmegaMinion

Thank you, Misery, you have saved me from yelling Ranting typing at him some more.

And hold on, Cut? I see nothing wrong with cut. It is actually useful, provided you are fighting pokemon with at least 30 under your level.
I am The Overlord Of Fail, your argument is invalid. 
Not changing my sig untill ShellCore Command EP3 is made [7-26-2012]

Rolina

Quote from: Ixion on 06, March, 2013, 04:40:17 PM
Quote from: Silverpine on 22, January, 2013, 04:06:11 AM
Cut 'Cut' out. Please. It has to go.

What's wrong with cut
As of Gen V:

It's tackle, but with less accuracy, no added benefits (compared to slash and similar), and cannot be removed.  Why not just make it so that slash-type moves act as cut out of battle and call it a day?  Instead of cut, have one of those (maybe slash itself) just be an early TM, make it so that TMs cannot be dropped or sold, and create a key item for emergency escapes back to home (possibly at the cost of money, to prevent people from relying too much on it).  There, cut problem solved, in one of many different ways (other ways include making a separate movelist just for field effects).

Aile~♥

At the very least, you could make it possible to forget HM moves at will. And Cut could be given a slight power increase and an increased crit chance, which would at least give some benefit to actually using it early on.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

OmegaMinion

Wait. I though HMs could be deleted, TMs cannot, becasue they are only one use.
I am The Overlord Of Fail, your argument is invalid. 
Not changing my sig untill ShellCore Command EP3 is made [7-26-2012]

Aile~♥

TMs are multi-use in Gen V. Also, it's always been possible to overwrite a TM move, even if that's your only use of that TM. But HMs cannot be forgotten except by going to the Move Deleter, making them incredibly irritating, especially since they're typically fairly weak in combat.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Except in Gen I and maybe II, where there wasn't a move deleter.  You learned it permanently.

Aile~♥

In Gen I, the reason for that was that HMs were also single-use. Once you used an HM, that Pokémon was the only one on your team who could ever use it.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]