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Suggestion for the Editor

Started by Menaus, 06, January, 2010, 12:39:27 AM

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Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#200
QuoteI didn't know that Atrius quit working on the gs editor, shame cause I really enjoyed using version 0.4. (:
Yeah, I believe he's making his own game now, which should feature an editor. Some of the topics around GSHC talk about this, in case you are wondering. I think his project was called Forgotten Dreams.

QuoteAlso how stable is version 0.5? I read that it is open source, but are there any bugs or such?
Yes, there were some bugs, and that's what my Teawater version was for. It was an attempt at fixing some of the bugs. (Maybe not every one of them?, but...) All changes I made were listed in a changelog.txt, I believe.


Quote from: GSTLA Editor 0.5Also what does it do better than version 0.4?
That's wroth using it for example?
Sprite Editing in the Sprite Editor.... and 0.5 also has the Data Viewer.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#201
Nope.  Atrius or Overlord Kain has to do it.  The staff have been the only ones to have that privileges ever since GSHC started, I believe.  If it had been in the Clan sections, then I think the leaders could do something as well... (There are some extra options near Quote and Modify when one has the privileges. They are called "Remove" and "Split Topic") UNFORTUNATELY, even in my Venus Clan forum, I don't have the privileges for the sub-forums, but for the base clan, I do.


For what regular members can do, just remember this:

You can edit your forum posts.
You cannot delete your forum posts.

You cannot edit your cbox posts.
You cannot delete your cbox posts.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

MaxiPower

Using the editor and it is crashing a lot lately. Downloaded the version with the map editor in it? Is their a way to delegate more CPU or ram to it to increase stability.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#203
Hm.. The Map Editor version by me was kind of messed up, and I'm sorry about that. In fact, needing more CPU should be unnecessary if the Editor is recoded in a better way. Directly loading/writing data to files byte by byte  ( which is without the IO mass-reading function ) is extremely slow, anyway... , and drawing stuff to the screen can be slow too, if done over-and-over, if I recall.

Anyway, one suggestion I have for the Editor is to have a Patch & Upload button.
@Uploading: The point of having this is so you don't have to select the file again in the upload process... That, and it's like ~2 clicks  or a keyboard combination away after an edit.  I'm guessing it would work a lot like a bot would work.  If you can't upload files as a Guest, then it may also require log-in information as well. (Whether that would be username/password or cookie is unknown.)

If I do ever manage to experiment with that, and get something working, it would also be cool to display the data on the page... as well as giving you a notice when you get a new message, etc. (Not sure. Could be just when a page is loaded from the site from doing something else...)

Another idea I had was to have a way to make a screenshot of the Editor for when you want to send in an error to the forums. It could also show a list of screenshots you made with VBA that match the file's name. ; Most of this isn't really needed, though, since Alt+Printscrn, and paint documents do wonders. However, automation is nice when you can get it.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Salanewt

#204
Just mulling over some ideas for how the editor could be improved without really adding or changing too much (italicized text = new feature):

Item:
Items;
- Expand item types to max (with text that says something like "*Patch*" to label things that do not exist by default)
- Added effect lists that can be expanded by users, maybe through Code Patches or something
- Text boxes beside "use" and "unleash" buttons, where IDs can be manually typed if the user knows them or use the buttons if they don't
- Expand number of icons in list, maybe through Code Patches
Shops;
- Expand shop types, either to max or through Code Patches
- Text boxes beside drop-down boxes, for IDs

Ability:
- Ability formula drop-down list expanded to allow for new formulas
- Ability effect, type boxes that can have their lists expanded by users, maybe through Code Patches or something
- Maybe the same thing for added utility effects
- Expand number of icons in list, maybe through Code Patches
- Text box beside animation drop-down, for IDs

Class:
- Typing stat multipliers in the class editor rather than selecting them from a box, especially since they cap at 255 anyway
- A second set of text boxes beside abilities in class editor, so one can just type the ID in if they know it or view the ability list if they don't (same with vulnerabilities)
- Some type of button that completely wipes out an individual class, excluding name
- Text box + button combo, where you enter a class ID into the box and hit the button to copy the current class data and paste it to the class that shares the ID; for example, being in class 1 and typing/hitting 5 will copy the data from 1 to 5

Djinn/Summons:
- Text boxes beside drop-down boxes, for IDs

Enemy:
Individual;
- Text boxes beside item, ability, loot drop-down boxes
- Expand attack pattern/AI list, whether through Code Patches or to max
- Text box that can change the enemy's element table, even if it doesn't allow for editing individual stats
Group;
- Text boxes beside enemy drop-down boxes, for IDs

Text:
- Ability to add or edit commands without being inconvenienced by compression format

Code Patches:
- Class Separation doesn't automatically "correct" Jenna and Piers' base classes if the box is unchecked (and also typo fixed); maybe a new box that actually does do this


Oh, and anything that is basically "text boxes beside drop-down" should have a small slash or equal sign between them to make it a little more obvious that they edit the same thing.

Can anyone else thing of other minor suggestions that could improve the editor? Mostly in the same vein as these ones of course.


Edit: Tweaked one of the bullets in the class portion. Much better idea than what was in there before.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#205
^Looking good.

QuoteCan anyone else thing of other minor suggestions that could improve the editor? Mostly in the same vein as these ones of course.
Code Patches change:
Although, I could argue that the Code Patches section should in fact have their features in the sub-editors that they belong... when possible. ? (That way, it is even more obvious to newbies that there is a toggle for something.)
Not sure, though...?

PC name limit = Party Editor
Class Separation patch = Class Editor
RNG fix = (Dunno?) (But maybe Code Patches could be renamed "Extras")

Forgery:
There's a table with the forge items and chance values... Could be added in the Items/Shops section.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Salanewt

Awesome, and a forge list would be a terrific addition. While we're on the subject of entirely new things...

PC Elemental Table, as a new tab in the party editor
Elemental Table, as a new tab in the enemy editor
Enemy IDs corrected to true values (base 8, since 0-7 are PC stuff)
Text boxes for enemy screams/sound effects, attack/jump heights, etc.
"NPC Class Specs" tab in enemy editor section, which is basically like a secondary enemy editor but for the first eight slots


Not sure how I feel about the code patches changes, but it could look nice if arranged well.


... Man, I wish the game maker stuff still worked on my laptop. Don't even know if I have it anymore.

Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#207
-Encounters/Battle Collections
-Price/formula editing for Sanctum/Inn stuff.
-

QuoteNot sure how I feel about the code patches changes, but it could look nice if arranged well.
Well, part of the suggestion was just in case it gets cluttered by all the "Expand list to this much" values, etc. - I feel like those should be mostly automated, though. Depending on if you click " - Add Item - " at the end of the list or not... Etc. (Or maybe right-clickable... in the case of a text box and the list size is greater than any index number you have used. Or something like that.. er.. Haven't thought about this much.)

Quote... Man, I wish the game maker stuff still worked on my laptop. Don't even know if I have it anymore.
:( I wish I could suggest something... Makes me think we still need to recode the editor in another language. (I have not tried doing it verbatim yet...  but you are welcome to.)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

MaxiPower

#208
Is there any point in the GBA editor now? OpenGoldenSun engine will render the editor obsolete as it will not be held down by the GBAs limitations providing he doesn't give up on it and doesn't release the code.

Salanewt

Eh... I'm not really big on fan games so much as seeing what I can do by directly changing an existing game's code. This is pretty much why I would rather toy around with ROMs directly than use fan engines, as I would just make a game from scratch if I wanted to make a new one altogether; the editor is a great little tool for helping me do this, and is pretty much the only reason I even came back to this hacking forum. The OpenGS thing is definitely pretty cool though, just not into it myself beyond getting ideas for what I could add via assembly.

So for the most part, the editor is great for my little hobby. It'll also help with Disco Sun, which will more or less be a culmination of a lot of the things I want to play with or have played with before.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#210
QuoteIs there any point in the GBA editor now? OpenGoldenSun engine will render the editor obsolete as it will not be held down by the GBAs limitations providing he doesn't give up on it and doesn't release the code.
I umm... sort of disagree about the Obsolete part. Because the GBA editor can educate people about what's possible in the original games. / And can help people who are hard-core/pure to the original to hack those games.

Even when OpenGS is done, I will still be interested in documenting the rest of Golden Sun. - From there, can't say what editor work I'd have a chance in doing. Although it is an interesting project, I feel it's too time consuming/valueless for it to be worth-while outside of experimentation hacks, and some data viewing/dumping.

@Salanewt: If the makers of Golden Sun ever mysteriously released their source code, would you ever choose to do your editing in that, instead of through the compiled code? (Sure the compiled code is interesting to learn about at first, until you get bored, and then productivity decreases.) - I'm going to take a guess and say maybe not, but I just want to be sure.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

MaxiPower

Obsolete is kinda the wrong word, Its just that there has been so little progress in the editor and then OpenGS comes along from outa nowhere and continually posts updates that surpass what I ever expected possible from a "Fan Game" to the point were it seems indistinguishable from the real thing. I'm all for the official Editor but lets face it, as it stands now, it will never be completed.  Lord Squrtle is Sala? lol I hate when people change their names, I thought you left ages ago lol!

Salanewt

Yeah, I definitely see what you mean there. The editor hasn't been updated much, though we have actually done a lot of research and documented huge portions of GS2. Probably enough to make a mostly full hack by hand/hex editor, give or take a few things largely related to certain compression formats.

Also, hi! I am indeed Salanewt, but I may change my name again at some point. Either that or I'll do some Sonic '06 joke for a bit and then go back.

Fox: Hm... I'd be open to looking at it for comparisons, but probably not editing it.


And. To keep this on topic. It may take too much work to be worthwhile, but I like the idea of being able to create a "change dump" that temporarily gets uploaded to a certain page for a few hours or so that other people can download. Kind of like automatic patch uploads. Haven't put much more thought into that idea though.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#213
QuoteLord Squrtle is Sala? lol I hate when people change their names, I thought you left ages ago lol!
Oops! Looks like I spoiled it. :/ Heheh...

QuoteAlso, hi! I am indeed Salanewt, but I may change my name again at some point. Either that or I'll do some Sonic '06 joke for a bit and then go back.
I might change my name again as well. When I decide to what, and when I want to do it.

QuoteFox: Hm... I'd be open to looking at it for comparisons, but probably not editing it.
So it is as I thought. - If such source code was released in these days, and if it matched the compiled code quite neatly, chances are, that's when I'd stop documenting... Maybe, since like... all of it would be there, just without the address positions. - And if this had been released as open-source from the start andt had all the easy-editing capabilities, then I doubt an editor for GS by Atrius would have been made...?

"Change dump" = How exactly does that work? Do you mean just a temporary file for when you want to just hand the file to someone? (Kind of like what you would do when you have a bug in your ROM and need someone to look into it.)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Atrius (He/Him)

I don't think it really matters if the compiled code is the same as long as the gameplay/feel of the end product is the same.  Though I do have a pretty strict definition for "feeling" the same, the vast majority of fan games will never get something as basic in the engine as the collisions while walking around right.

The Open Source Golden Sun project is closer to what the original plan for the editor was anyway, I'd be pretty happy to see it reach a point that makes the editor obsolete.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

MaxiPower

#215
Quote from: Atrius on 13, April, 2015, 06:47:24 PM
I don't think it really matters if the compiled code is the same as long as the gameplay/feel of the end product is the same.  Though I do have a pretty strict definition for "feeling" the same, the vast majority of fan games will never get something as basic in the engine as the collisions while walking around right.

The Open Source Golden Sun project is closer to what the original plan for the editor was anyway, I'd be pretty happy to see it reach a point that makes the editor obsolete.

Agree with this 100%, From the first video of OpenGS, You could see he was trying to recreate it faithfully. I Got the same buzz of excitement as I did from when you first stepped onto the scene all those years ago. The movement looks spot on. that second delay just before Felix climbs the vine is true to the game, wee things like that he has captured perfectly. Its a pity you stopped your original idea but i'm thankful for the editor none the less. It was perfect in terms of presentation and ease of use, a blend of the two would be awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6gC4TfPou0 for the vine (5.23) :P


ThanatosTheDark

how bout a maximized view of the editor?
I am nothing more than a nothingness that never was.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Like the F4 key? (I believe it was...?) Or what I think you mean, which the C# editor would allow...
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

ThanatosTheDark

No. As far as I'm concerned, F4 is just a zoomed view. What I'm referring to is something more on the lines of a way to remove the scroll bars so more can be seen at once. This most noticeable in map editing.
I am nothing more than a nothingness that never was.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#219
QuoteOr what I think you mean, which the C# editor would allow...
So I guess I was correct.

By the way, I think you could modify Atrius's source to make the "room" larger, and more stuff would be displayed, I think.... (But as far as changing the window size with-in the app itself, I dunno....)

http://i.imgur.com/EwJGFEL.png = This is what one map looks like in my C# editor when maximized... (Minus taskbar...) However, the scrollbar is still there.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)