A present for Sala

[Rolina]

You assume we're using stars.  Please take a look at my 'essences' idea first.  The only thing that it looks like we're not using for sure is the Powerup Idea I originally had.

[Aile~♥]

Only question is, what's our excuse to include them? We still have to stay somewhat true to the Mario universe.

[Mion Sonozaki]

Why not use the star characters from the paper mario games? Or the Crystal Stars from PM2?
Something like those.

[Salanewt]

Before I go to do my assignment, and then afterwards start those portraits over again (sorry Lishy, my computer restarted before I saved them), could I please ask some of you to not think so much of Paper Mario when talking about this hack? I know that the Paper Mario games are really fun and I like where you are going with these ideas, but we need to come up with entirely new systems for almost every aspect of the game, aside from characters and locations of course (and by locations, I mean those which have appeared in more than one game, despite how much it may have changed (like Bowser's Castle, or Mario's House)). Well, if we want this to seem like a new series anyway.

For example... The Star Spirits are done with. One Paper Mario and a Mario Party is good enough for them. They should at most make a cameo appearance, or even just as an image seen in a remote area of the game. This means that we should stay away from Stars (or at least use them differently), and definitely not 7 (more or less, but not 7).

Leaf? Yeah, that formula is pretty good actually, and can probably be used or altered in another type of special attack.

Edit: Pressed an incorrect key, never managed to finish my post.

Have a nice day.

[leaf]

Well the reason I keep bringing up the 7 macguffins thing is because that whole trend started in SMRPG. If it was something that was specific to the paper mario series, I'd completely agree with you.

[Salanewt]

Well the reason I keep bringing up the 7 macguffins thing is because that whole trend started in SMRPG. If it was something that was specific to the paper mario series, I'd completely agree with you.

Oh yeah, it did start in Super Mario RPG, didn't it? Well, I still think that for a new spin-off hack, it should have a new system (one series and one other game used 7 as a significant number (4 out of 7 games), I think this hack should be a bit different (like five, or three?)). After all, the Paper Mario series were heavily imspired by Super Mario RPG, and the first Paper Mario was going to be named Super Mario RPG 2, but I think Square Enix made them change the name.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Yeah, it did.  I figure that the Koopa Kids are guarding the McGuffins you'll wind up needing to get into bowser's castle.

You don't know you'll need it, but you'll get more and more hints along the way that these are going to be needed to get in.  ...Heck, it could be their wands!

...Actually... You DO get the 7 wands... all the way back in SMB3.  So the 7 McGuffins is older than SMRPG... Even if it's a wee bit different than in the RPGs.


I'll edit in a comment about the Spirits if nothing is talked about in the Elements thread, haven't checked yet.  But remember, nobody said we couldn't add storyline specific things to this.  Hell, every Mario RPG has its own unique storyline things...

Edit:  Geez, nobody said a thing.  I'll post it here:

We'll have new characters, but not new Player Characters.  Heck, the kidnapping party in the story premise is made up of un-genericified Goombas and Koopa Troopas.  So... yeah, right there you've got new characters.

Anywho, Leaf seemed to suggest this in another thread:

Separate the Element System from the Djinn System.  That is to say:  Characters can use many different elemental attacks in all their classes.  The Djinn, however, will have a different function - powering up certain elements, and changing classes.  However, rather than having them be actual Elements, how about this:

Essences.  There'd be four essences, each responding to a type of classic RPG build.  Add more of that essence to make the character more like that build.  You could focus purely on one build type, or you could mix it up.  What element skills they know are independent of the essences, but some essences grant more of one element than another in the classes.

For the Essences, I've got Fighter, Defender, Magician, and Healer.  The four base classes of RPGs.

For classes, Fighter would have many different physical oriented skills of a variety of elements. Personalities of these types are often 'Fiery'
Defenders are mostly defensive, and have many buffs and stuff.  Defenders are typically the type to "Jump" to the rescue.
Magicians use mostly attack magic of many different elements.  Magicians are well known for their ability to "Zap" their opponents.
Healers use mostly healing, with some other stuff mixed in, of course.  Healers are known to be "Cool", calm, and collective...

So for it to work with GS's Element Level-based Class System, Fighters boost Fire, Defenders boost Jump, Magicians boost Shock, and Healers boost Ice - but none are restricted to said elements.  Many of the Defender's skills are non-elemental, for example.  Read:  I don't think buffs/debuffs should have an element... not like their effected by it, y'know?

Now, we could easily have this be the spirits of the Ancient Mushroom Kingdom that Mario and the others come across.  That is, the Mushroom Kingdom way back many thousands of years ago, before the Mushroom Kingdom had Mario and Luigi to help them.  It'd be little toad-doods with different gear reflecting their class. Or something.  The spirits of the ancient warriors who once protected the Mushroom Kingdom...  We could have some way that causes them to become unleashed upon the land, and want to help once again.  They can't affect the world and save a princess as spirits, though, so they lend their power to Mario and the others.

[Salanewt]

That is true about getting seven wands, but wasn't it optional if you got a Warp Whistle? With them, I think you only had to complete a few worlds. If you get two of these, you can jump all the way to world 7 (warp past World 1, then warp to World 7). This means that only three worlds were actually required (unless you decide to complete a fraction of World 2, then you only have to do 2.5 Worlds), unlike in the Mario RPGs. I do finally agree with the rest of you about using 7.

Storyline specific things seem like a good idea as well. After all, this is like a new hack/series... Which just gave me a good idea.

Will there be a sequel, and how long will this hack be? I figure that if the first Golden Sun can be combined with the second one, then we could have data/space for thousands of new ideas, as well as old concepts (not to mention just adding stuff as well, but then we get many more maps, and characters which are already prepared for us to edit, instead of making new ones). If this is too hard to do/will not be done for a while, then we could just hack both the first and second games. Not sure how we would be able to make the characters' stats guaranteed to carry over though.

Have a nice day.

[leaf]

Do we really wanna be thinking about a sequel before we've even started the first one? >_>

I think the answer to that is a resounding "no."

And role, I actually really like your idea about the essences, but it feels slightly out of place without a more sinister plot. Like... at least something as bad as the shadow queen in PM:TTYD or the dark star in BII, both of which involve ancient cataclysms (TTYD even goes so far as to have 4 heroes that were cursed when they sealed away the shadow queen). They need something that was relevant to them in the past for it to make sense for them to be helping you in the present. You still haven't answered me what you think of having two parts to the game, though. The first part being your minion plot, and the second part involving some item of great power, like how I outlined a few posts ago.

[Rolina]

Hmmm... Touche.  How about this then:  The whole issue with bowser gets resolved about 1/3-1/2 way through.  But, similar to SMRPG, a bunch of stuff happens and bowser's no longer the final boss.  Sort of.  And how did this happen?  Well, when they unsealed the spirits, they unsealed an evil one too.  Looks like those 'essences' were actually using themselves to seal away the great evil!

For lulz:  There's two evil spirits.  One possesses Daisy.  The other... Hmm... Maybe Bowser Jr. or something.  Bowser winds up on the other end of the stick - that is, the end he's not used to: Forced into doing their dirty work.  And since it's a Mario game, the punishment if he doesn't do it isn't death - it's something far worse, they've got dirt on him so bad, so unspeakable, that we can't even say what it is in the game (ongoing gag)!

This would also kill two birds with one stone - the essences would need to seal in the spirit again, so it'd give a good storyline excuse for them to poof away.

[Salanewt]

That seems like a good idea. When I get around to making a Daisy portrait, do you also want to see what a possessed Daisy might look like (probably a bit of a different outfit too though)? Not fully sure if it should be Bowser Jr. unless he looks like Dark Bowser from Bowser's Inside Story (then he would be awesome).

By the way, how many Kraden-like characters will there be? Basically, the ones who join you, even if they seem relatively useless.

Another new idea... We have established that some characters will get new abilities, and other characters might be able to learn the same abilities (like both Mario and Luigi can learn a Jump ability, for example). What if we can write scripts for abilities that make it so if a certain character uses said ability, then it is enhanced? For example, if both Mario and Luigi know Jump, then it will be enhanced for one of them, so the other character jumps higher or something?

Have a nice day.

Edit: Of course, that is just an example, since both Mario and Luigi normally jump the same height.

[Rolina]

What do you think elemental power does, Sala?

[Salanewt]

True, but I was also talking about the overworld. I suppose elemental affinity can be made to empower certain abilities on the overworld, but perhaps only at certain points during the story.

And... I currently have no more ideas (though I might think of one if I can find Scoot Bloop).

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Well, Defenders boost the power of jumps, Attackers boost Fire, Mages boost Shock, and Healers boost Ice... however, I figure that equipment would have a larger effect on the boosts.

Tanooki Suit (armor) - boosts Jump Power and Resist by 25 each, bestows Stone Guardian ability (raises DEF)
Penguin Suit (armor) - boosts Ice Power and Resist by 25 each, boosts AGL by 1.2x, bestows Ice Ball ability
Fire Flower (psy tool) - boosts Fire Power by 20, bestows Fire Ball ability
Propeller Hat (helm) - Boosts Jump Power by 20, bestows Spin Drop

Something like that.  I figure, given how pretty much any powerup can be equipped, those that can will boost elemental power and bestow something.  And why not include all known powerups?

[Salanewt]

I like that idea. We can even grab single use attack items if we want as well I suppose. Some more minor ideas for items...

Equip:

Cape (accessory) - boosts Jump Power by 20, bestows Glide.
Wing Cap (helmet) - boosts Jump Power and Restance by 15, bestows Fly.

Combat Item:

Koopa Shell - kicked at enemy for minor damage (similar attack to what a Koopa might have*).
Music Box - makes all opponents fall asleep (40-75% chance of working, either has to be decided or coded into the game).
Volt Shroom (edible) - enemies who attack you take damage, while you only take half (since they did not finish attacking you, but they did make contact*).

I also have another minor idea. Items can be combined to make other items (similar to the chefs from the Paper Mario games). For example, the Koopa Shell and the Volt Shroom can be combined for a Shell Shocker? Basically, this can be kicked, and it also deals Shock damage to the target (not to mention being a tiny bit stronger as well).

*1: If a Koopa uses this, there are two alternatives. A Koopa could either launch itself while in the shell so it can keep the shell, or it can kick its shell at the target (so it would not be vulnerable to things like Volt Shroom). The problem with the second one would be that the Koopa could lose the shell if it does this, so it will become a much more vulnerable Beach Koopa.

*2: This would not work for some enemies, mainly those with Shock affinity, as well as some enemies like Lava Drops or Podoboos (fire enemies who are compose almost entirely of Fire). This would also not work for ranged attacks, since the actual enemy is not touching you.


Have a nice day.

[leaf]

Well, in (almost?) all of the mario games where a koopa shell is used as an attacking item, it always bounces back after hitting an enemy. There's no reason a koopa shell has to be consumable.

[Salanewt]

That is true, and another reason why I type the two alterations of it (kick and come back + kick without coming back).

As for consumable or not... True enough. It could probably be a multiple use item, which reminds me... What happens again if an enemy uses a multiple use item? They can also use it again, right?

Alternatively, Green shell can go away (if player uses it), and Red shell can come back.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Koopa shell is a psynergy for me.  Thus my EPA ideas for mario.  Think about it... it makes an excellent epa.  Don't think it should be a consumable item or weapon, though.

[Salanewt]

I agree that it should not be a consumable item (since I changed my mind about that), but it would either be a reusable item, or an enemy only psynergy (or a bestowable psynergy, since Koopa Shell could work like a faraway hammer on the overworld).

Some ideas for abilities, and how they can be used on the overworld:

Grab/Pull: Grab or pull objects, such as a rope or a box. Can also be used to pick up smaller objects.
*Koopa Shell: Acts like Hammer, except it is ranged. Can only hit switches on the sides of an object (not on the ground) and hit low blocks.
*Fire (/Firehand/Fireball): Burn shrubs to reveal items/passageways, light candles to illuminate dark areas, can melt some ice structures.

* = Can also be used to initiate a battle, similar to Jump or Hammer.

I have ideas for more abilities, it is just that I can not quite think of how they could be used on the overworld over other abilities yet.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Sala... I just said it's an EPA.  Shell Strike is the koopa shell attack.  Lazy Shell is the Giant Koopa Shell attack.