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Mario Sun Topic: Elements

Started by Rolina, 23, February, 2010, 01:08:46 PM

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Rolina

Okay, so we've got a bit of a debate here for the elements.

It boils down to:  I used precedent with SMRPG to give us the four elements:  Jump, Fire, Ice, and Shock
For the Djinn, I use powerups to replace them:  Propeller Shroom (Jump), Fire Flower (Fire), Ice Flower (Ice), Volt Shroom (Shock).  All of these are taken from Mario games, and it's the combination of powerups that give the new abilities.

Leaf came up with his own system...s.... Which one he wants to submit is up to him.  HOWEVER:  KEEP IT SHORT, SWEET, AND TO THE POINT.  No walls of text to explain yourself - if you have to explain, you fail.  Keep it simple and easy to read and understand, like mine.

Aile~♥

I actually pretty much agree with your ideas, only instead of the term "element" we use the term "type", because Jump isn't really an "element", it's more a style of attack, or "type".

Because we don't have "elements", we don't have "elemental power", we have "type affinity"; we don't have "elemental resistance", we have "type defence" (defence has an S for you American types).
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

#2
I agree with Jamie that they could be types. Also, "Non-elemental"/"No type" should be "Other" or "Other Type", since there are some characters and abilities which would not follow any of these, yet they exist (though they are very minor, like how Monty Mole is more like Earth or Ground type).

Have a nice day.

Edit: I just thought of something. Ice should be renamed to "Water", because Ice is a solid form of Water, yet this can also include aquatic enemy types to be affiliated with Ice (like Cheep Cheep and Blooper, while also allowing for enemies like Bumpties to share the same type).
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

leaf

Like I said in the other topic, I can accept those elements, but not that djinn replacement. Generic items should stay generic items. Stars (or some variant of stars) would be the ideal replacement, since they actually have precedent for bestowing new powers.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

Well, I thought of an alternative to items, but it still takes into consideration the types/elements (without star power). I would be interested if at least a few people would tell me how they like the idea.

This is all that I have for now.

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

My idea was that you use a combo of powerups to determine your class and skillset.  Also, Leaf, I think you've been limiting yourself to Mario RPGs.  I have not.  In another thread, you said that the Fire Flower has very little precedent, which made me go all: O.o

I mean... the Fire Flower's been there from the get go, along with the Super Mushroom and the 1Up Shroom.  You can't get more precedent than that, save the Hammer, which has been there from the original Donkey Kong game.

If we're not going to do powerups, then what?  Powerups made the most sense to me, personally, so...

leaf

It's not that fire flowers don't have precedent. It's that they don't have precedent as a powerup item in the mario RPG universe. I am indeed limiting myself to the mario RPGs, because they've set some important precedents for what to expect.

My suggestion was to use stars or something based on stars, which do have precedent for granting new powers in the mario RPG universe.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

#7
I myself suggest using an unused system, or a system which at least looks like it is unused. We can still keep the "element's", but we do not use items to determine which abilities we get, or which classes we have (I will get to my new alternative for classes in a minute).

I said a little bit of this in the other topic, but I want to add something new to it. There could be someone who can alter your "element" level of each character. This means that the total would always have to equal 5, unless you eat new items which permanently raise an elemental level. By changing your affinity, you can still access higher classes and alternate abilities (which means that element level will have to be changeable, in the way that HP or Attack can be changed with codes).

For example, if...

Before:
Mario = 3 Jump, 2 Fire
Luigi = 4 Jump, 1 Shock

Mario can digest an item to raise his Fire level, and Luigi can go to that person to change how his levels are assorted.

After:
Mario = 3 Jump, 3 Fire
Luigi = 3 Jump, 2 Shock


This might be a bit of work to make them like ordinary stats (yet not related to when you level up), but it would certainly help for strategy, as well as making other classes available for use.

Edit: New idea to add to this. There should be a maximum element level, like what would normally be your total level. To make your class lower, you would move the required levels into a new "Other" category, which acts more like a reserved, meaning that they do not count for your classes (you must always have a minumum though, and not all can be in the "Other" category).

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

Quote from: leafgreen386 on 24, February, 2010, 06:47:25 AM
It's not that fire flowers don't have precedent. It's that they don't have precedent as a powerup item in the mario RPG universe. I am indeed limiting myself to the mario RPGs, because they've set some important precedents for what to expect.

My suggestion was to use stars or something based on stars, which do have precedent for granting new powers in the mario RPG universe.
THERE'S your problem:  You're thinking strictly in the Mario RPGs.  I, however, am looking at ALL Mario games.  For example:  That EPA suggestion of mine in the original thread comes from a mix of Super Mario Strikers and the original SMRPG.  I'm including ALL Mario games, and I expect everyone else to as well, otherwise it's gonna be way too hard to pull this off without coming up with new characters, which I want to avoid.

Aile~♥

AVOID coming up with new characters? Are you mad?
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

New characters would at best work as NPCs, or as characters who you fight, but Role does have a point for not making new characters to be used by the player. After all, making new characters is more appropriate for when you are not making it based on something that already exists (or if the timeline is completely off, to the point where most of the original characters would be dead or not born yet (or when they are much younger/older)).

Unless Role means to avoid making new characters period? Well, we could have a few new characters, as long as they are NPCs (even if they are just minor, like Tayce T. played in Paper Mario).

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

leaf

We're not avoiding making new characters. We may avoid making new playable characters. But we're not avoiding making new characters. That would be ridiculous.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

I can agree with that (though my argument may not have been worded correctly at times). Anyway, I am in favour of adding new characters, as long as none of them are playable (unless they like Kraden, so they can still join you for certain reasons).

I also have an idea to make a character similar to the ones in the Paper Mario games, where they can create new items with some of the properties of the old items (a cook, who can bake up to two items to create a new item).

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

I see no reason to avoid making new player characters, so long as they're based on existing species in the Mario universe.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

We'll have new characters, but not new Player Characters.  Heck, the kidnapping party in the story premise is made up of un-genericified Goombas and Koopa Troopas.  So... yeah, right there you've got new characters.

Anywho, Leaf seemed to suggest this in another thread:

Separate the Element System from the Djinn System.  That is to say:  Characters can use many different elemental attacks in all their classes.  The Djinn, however, will have a different function - powering up certain elements, and changing classes.  However, rather than having them be actual Elements, how about this:

Essences.  There'd be four essences, each responding to a type of classic RPG build.  Add more of that essence to make the character more like that build.  You could focus purely on one build type, or you could mix it up.  What element skills they know are independent of the essences, but some essences grant more of one element than another in the classes.

For the Essences, I've got Fighter, Defender, Magician, and Healer.  The four base classes of RPGs.

For classes, Fighter would have many different physical oriented skills of a variety of elements. Personalities of these types are often 'Fiery'
Defenders are mostly defensive, and have many buffs and stuff.  Defenders are typically the type to "Jump" to the rescue.
Magicians use mostly attack magic of many different elements.  Magicians are well known for their ability to "Zap" their opponents.
Healers use mostly healing, with some other stuff mixed in, of course.  Healers are known to be "Cool", calm, and collective...

So for it to work with GS's Element Level-based Class System, Fighters boost Fire, Defenders boost Jump, Magicians boost Shock, and Healers boost Ice - but none are restricted to said elements.  Many of the Defender's skills are non-elemental, for example.  Read:  I don't think buffs/debuffs should have an element... not like their effected by it, y'know?