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Author Topic: Golden Sun Empires - system development thread  (Read 17002 times)
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Rolina
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« on: July 12, 2010, 08:46:24 PM »

I'll be doing this in a series of posts, rather than all together.

Stats:

HP: Health Points.  Reflects physical condition.  At 100%, unit is completely undamaged.  At 0%, unit is wounded beyond the ability to battle, and falls unconscious.  If driven to -50%, unit dies.  If unit is a player (read: forum member), then unit is captured if driven to -15% in the attack that knocks them unconscious (any excess damage is ignored, intent to capture must be called).  Physicals have a higher growth rate.
PP: Psynergy Points.  Reflects the energy of the character.  At 100%, character is full on energy.  At 0%, character is exhausted, can no longer cast, and a noticeable loss of combat ability occurs.  Value cannot go below 0%.  Mysticals have a higher growth rate.
Attack: Physical strength.  Augmented by equipment, mainly weapons.  This determines the power of physical blows and EPAs.  Physicals have a higher growth rate.
Defense: Physical defense.  Augmented by equipment, mainly armor.  This determines the resistance to physical blows and EPAs.  Physicals  have a higher growth rate.
Mind: Psynergy power.  Augmented by equipment, mainly weapons.  This determines the power of spells.  Mysticals have a higher growth rate.
Will: Psynergy resistance.  Augmented by equipment, mainly armor.  This determines the resistance to spells.  Mysticals have a higher growth rate.
Luck: Ailment resistance.  Lowers the chance of ailments hitting their mark.  Static value, does not grow at level up. Luck will likely not be used.

Though Agility was a stat in the original games, it cannot be accurately recreated in an RP, so it is left out.

So, let's look at an example:

HP: 75/75
 PP: 50/50
ATK: 13
DEF: 7
MND: 20
WIL: 9


Look at the above layout.  This character/creature would probably be primarily a caster, as they have a higher unmodified Mind than Attack.  They take more damage from physical blows, but less from psynergy  Their luck means that 4 is subtracted from the chance for ailments to land.  More on this will be explained later.

These values are also modified by various other factors, such as djinn and equipment.  When added to the natural stats, you get the character's Adjusted Stats.


As we all know, a big part of golden sun had to do with classes.  While a character may have a certain stat layout, it wasn't natural stats alone that caused them to stand out from one another - it was the classes that did that.  What made Jenna different from Garet?  It wasn't so much stats as it was her class - put them both as unarmed berserkers, and they'll be very similar statistically.  But in their base classes, they were quite different.  It's class and the multipliers that come with it that ultimately set characters apart.  Although NPC units and Creatures will have the NPC class, and thus have 100% multiplier in everything (read:  Stats are unchanged), player characters are different.  Think of the PCs as being like the Hero Units.  A lowly mook solder may be easy to take down, but approaching Role would be like going after Lu Bu in a Dynasty Warriors game (okay, FINE, I'll settle for Nene from Samurai Warriors instead...) - she's NOT going to go down in one or two hits, and she's gonna hit quite hard, just as it would be quite a bit harder to take down any player character.

Players have 610 points to distribute between the various stats.  There are limits to this, of course.  No value can be above 140, nor below 60.  For ease of use, values must be multiples of five.  These points will translate to a multiplier for those stats.  For example:  A physical fighter may opt to have the following layout:

 HP: 115
 PP:  85
ATK: 115
DEF: 125
MND:  80
WIL:  90


Total points spent is 610, and no value is above 140 or below 60.  As such, this is a valid class.  What needs to be done next?  Well, apply it to the adjusted stats, of course!  These are multiplier values, so a value of 115 multiplies a value by 1.15.  So if the Adjusted Value for their HP was 172, their final value is 198 (197.8 rounded to the nearest whole number).  For values less than 100, such as the PP value here, the effect is similar, but opposite.  The multiplier will actually lower the value.  For the above example, if they had an Adjusted PP value of 68, then they'd have a final PP value of 58 (57.8 rounded to the nearest whole number).  In this way, the class modifiers work exactly how they do in the original games.


This is basically stats in a nutshell.  To recap:

Stats = (Base + Equipment + Djinn) * Class.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 04:21:09 AM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 09:36:58 PM »

Equipment:  equipment is determined NOT by clan, but rather by the physique of the character.  The oft-mentioned Build.

Builds come in four varieties separated by two categories:

Physicals:  These are primarily physical fighters
  • Warrior:  Axes, Swords, Blades, Maces, Heavy Armor.  Warriors opt for sheer force, preferring to have overwhelming attack power above all else.
  • Fighter:  Spears, Swords, Blades, Scythes, Heavy Armor.  Fighters opt more for skill.  They fight with a bit more prudence, rather than just force alone.
Mysticals:  These fight primarily with psynergy rather than with force of arms
  • Spellblade:  Blades, Scythes, Staffs, Ankhs, Mage Robes.  Spellblades focus their minds to overcome the challenge of casting powerful spells on the move.
  • Pure Mage:  Scythes, Maces, Staffs, Ankhs, Mage Robes.  Pure Mages focus purely on exerting their will upon the elements, bending them to their command.
All characters can use Light Clothes, only Males can use Male-only gear, only Females can use Female-only gear.

When creating their persona, they chose one of these four types of builds.  You can have a Pure Mage in the Venus Clan, or a Warrior in the Jupiter Clan.  It's up to how you want to play your character.  Now, as for the weapons themselves -

Axes:  Axes have superior attack power to all other weapons, but are a bit unwieldy when it comes to spells.  Has a negative effect on spells.  (Attack value:  120%, Defense Value -20%, Panel Range = 1)
Spears:  Spears have a higher range of attack, but spells lose a little bit of power as they travel through them.  (Attack value:  100%, Will Value -10%, Panel Range = 2)
Swords:  Swords (AKA Long Swords) are the basic weapon of the physical fighter.  Well balanced, has neither positive nor negative effect on spells.  (Attack value: 100%, Mind value: 0%, Panel Range = 1)
Blades:  Blades (AKA Light Blades) are lighter than Swords, and less powerful.  However, they do have an ability to channel psynergy.  (Attack value: 80%, Mind value: 20%)
Scythes:  Scythes have a longer reach than most weapons, and though less wieldy as a weapon, it possesses an ability to channel psynergy.  (Attack value 70%, Defense value: 20%, Panel Range = 2)
Maces:  Maces and Hammers are capable of both physical and psynergetic attacks.  (Attack value 70%, Mind value 30%, Panel Range = 1)
Ankhs:  Ankhs are a variation of Staffs designed to deflect spells, rather than to purely empower them.  (Attack value 50%, Mind value 20%, Will value 30%, Panel Range = 1)
Staffs:  Staffs are weapons designed specifically to empower psynergy.  They lack physical might, but more than make up for it with their ability to amplify psynergy. (Attack value 50%, Mind value = 50%, Panel Range = 1)

Furthermore, clan Leadership may have unique weapon types.  This is limited to the top two positions within a clan, and these artifacts are passed on from one leader to the next.  It's recommended that clan leaders create one Physical oriented weapon and one Psynergy oriented weapon, as it's unlikely that the leader would always be a certain type of build.  For example:  Role, leader of the Jupiter Clan, is a Pure Mage whom wields a Spellbook.  However, Hoopa, her sucessor, is a Warrior, and has no use for a spellbook.  Rather, a Halberd suits him better.  Clans must agree upon the physical and magical equipment for both the clan leader and second in command, and must submit them to Charon for approval.  Stat ratio must equal 100% at the end.  Each additional panel of range lowers that required ratio by 10 (both Spears and Scythes above have a total of 90, rather than 100 like the rest).  It IS possible to have 0 Panel reach for an additional 10 in the ratio, but note that physical attacks of any kind become impossible as a result (INCLUDING unleashes, even those that use Mind as their basis of power).  Should they run out of PP, they will be forced to either take a turn to switch weapons, or retreat from battle.

The actual values of a weapon depend on the weapon itself.  An equally powered Sword and Blade don't have the same stats.  If the Sword has +10 Attack, +0 Mind, the Blade has +8 Attack, +2 Mind.  The absolute maximum value for weapons is 200, meaning the max values for weapons PERIOD is:

Axe:  240 Attack, -40 Defense
Spear:  200 Attack, -20 Will, two panel reach
Sword:  200 Attack
Blade:  160 Attack, 40 Mind
Scythe:  140 Attack, 40 Defense, two panel reach
Mace:  140 Attack, 60 Mind
Ankh:  100 Attack, 40 Mind, 60 Will
Staff:  100 Attack, 100 Mind

Stats are subject to change for balancing purposes.

Now, equipment isn't all weapons.

Heavy Armor:  Includes Helmets, Armor, and Shields.  High physical defense, low psynergy defense.  (80% Defense, 20% Will)
Light Clothes:  Includes Hats/Crowns, Clothes, and Gloves.  Balance of physical and psynergy defense.  (60% Defense, 40% Will)
Mage Robes:  Includes Circlets, Robes/Gowns, and Armlets.  High psynergy defense, low physical defense.  (40% Defense, 60% Will)

Other pieces of equipment include Legwear (boots, Shoes, Sandals, etc..), Rings (exactly what it says on the tin), and Undershirts (ditto).  Though not bound by build these pieces of equipment have their own unique properties.

Unlike weapons, clans do not have unique armors for their leaders.  HOWEVER, they are welcome to create legwear, rings, and undershirts unique to their clan.  For example, Salanewt may create a Venusian Ring for his clan, and with the approval of Charon, it will become available as an exclusive piece of equipment for the Venus clan to purchase if they wish to do so.

Artifacts and their effects will be discussed in another post.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:33:06 AM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 11:04:42 PM »

Spells vs EPAs.

In the old games, Spells were the poor man's attempt at an EPA.  In other words:  Poor mage classes, they can't hold a candle to the physical ones.  Needless to say:  NOT COOL.  Instead, for the purposes here in the RP, and so that mages don't become worthless here, base damage no longer exists.  Instead, Mind and Will were created as a form of Psynergy attack and defense.

You may notice above that the boosts to Mind and Will aren't as high as the boosts to Attack and Defense.  There's a reason for this - if they were treated as truly equal, and staffs wound up being -20% Attack +120% Mind, there'd be a very high risk of spells becoming overpowered in the hands to mages due to their nature to have an area of effect.  As such, by using smaller numbers, it becomes easier to find a good balance of power.  Of course, there's another reason for this as well...

There are two types of damage:

Added Damage
Multiplier Damage

Added damage is primarily what you see in EPAs.  They empower the weapons with the elements, causing additional damage, and sometimes with additional or displaced range.  Occasionally you'll find a multiplier, but they tend to be rather expensive in comparison, but at higher levels they deal amazing damage.
Multiplier damage is primarily what you see in Spells.  They use a certain amount of the caster's power to inflict damage over an area.  There are some spell families which don't have an area of effect, though.  These can become quite potent in power, as they're focused on a single target.

Finally, we have the types of damage.  Physical and Psynergetic.

Physical damage comes in the forms of EPAs.  There are usually two stages of power for an EPA family, exceptions being for Multipliers, which only have one.  An example would be Ragnarok, which boosts power by 35, and increases their range of the attack by one panel (however, the area is still only a single target).  Odyssey, it's upgrade, boosts power by 90, and range of attack by 2 (area of effect is still a single target, though). The primary way for EPAs to get stronger is to equip a stronger weapon.

Psynergy damage comes in the form of spells.  Spell families have three stages of power.  For example, Flare may have a power of 0.4, range of 5, and AoE of 3.  Flare Wall may instead have a power of 0.8, range of 5, and AoE of 3.  Flare Storm's power futher increases to 1.2, while the other stats remain the same.  This number is the multiplier - you take the target's mind, multiply it by that value (in this case, 0.4 for Flare).  Primary way that spells increase damage is through higher versions, though the equipment bonuses surely don't hurt.

Finally, we also have the issue of Elemental Power and Resistance.  These are ADDITIONAL multipliers that must go through before defense is applied.

Members of a clan have a power and resistance setup that reflects their clan.  It can simply be put as this:

            ,-----------.
            | Pwr | Res |
,-----------|-----+-----|
| Innate    | 105 | 115 |
| Symbiotic |  80 |  85 |
| Neutral   |  70 |  75 |
| Opposed   |  50 |  55 |
`-----------------------'


These modifiers affect EPAs and Spells VERY differently.  EPAs, as their main power is physical might, are influenced less by this.  They are, as a result, much more consistent in damage.  On the other hand, as spells are the raw elements, they are heavily influenced by elemental power and resistance.  The damage varies widely, depending on the power of the caster and resistance of the target.

As a result, the damage would be:

Offensive stat for all checks is 100.
Defensive stat for all checks is 60.
Always checks Innate vs Opposed

Venus casting Ragnarok on a Jupiter target:  119 damage to single target
Venus casting Odyssey on a Jupiter target:  182 damage to single target
Mars casting Flare on a Mercury group:  18 damage to an AoE of 3 panels
Mars casting Flare Wall on a Mercury group:  79 damage to an AoE of 3 panels
Mars casting Flare Storm on a Mercury group:  140 damage to an AoE of 3 panels

How is this damage determined?

EPA attack power:  (Base + Boost)*(1+(User POW/400))
EPA defense : Defense * (1-(Target RES/400))

Spell attack power:  (Base * Multiplier)*(1+(User POW/200))
Spell defense:  Will * (1+(Target RES/200))

Damage is determined simply by Attack Power - Defense

Final damage is rounded to the nearest whole number.  Minimum damage upon hit is 1.


The actual values of spells and EPAs is subject to testing and change, of course.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:33:36 AM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 10:57:04 PM »

AoE Types

Just a dump for now - will elaborate upon later.

Melee Range 1 (ex: Attack with a Blade)


Melee Range 2 (ex: Attack with a Spear, Cast Ragnarok with a Blade)


Melee Range 3 (ex: Cast Ragnarok with a Spear, Odyssey with a Blade)


Melee Range 4 (ex: Cast Odyssey with a Spear)


Radial Area 1 (ex: Spire)


Radial Area 3 (ex: Quake)


Radial Area 5 (ex: Earthquake)


Radial Area 7 (ex: Quake Sphere)


Radial Area 9


Radial Area 11


Conical Area 3 (ex: Beam)


Conical Area 5 (ex: Cycle Beam)


Conical Area 7 (ex: Searing Beam)


Conical Area 9


Conical Area 11


Wide Area Single Target (ex: Fume)


Line of Sight area (ex: Fulminous Spark)




Damage Layout:


« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:55:16 PM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 10:59:38 PM »

Looks nice Role, but that almost exactly reminds me of Final Fantasy Tactics. Some of the same ranges are even used.

Anyway, this all looks too confusing to me, so good luck with it.

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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 11:01:59 PM »

Well, if you'll notice, I've been assuming that we're using the system that Leaf proposed.  Also:  Not just FF Tactics.  It's ALL SRPGs.  In fact, this isn't all of them, it's just the ones that don't displace the user. 

It may look confusing now, but that's because we don't know exactly where we're going with it yet.
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 11:04:13 PM »

Okay, sounds good.

Now, just to make sure, in which section(s) is this going?

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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 11:16:58 PM »

Oh wow, those are good.

Will there be any attacks that can hit in multiple directions at once, like the Flash attacks in Onimusha Tactics? Just askin'.
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 12:10:56 AM »

I'm still fleshing things out, so bear with me.  This was all on the micro scale, so I'm about to make a macro scale post now.

For the strategy/diplomacy phases, individuals move in groups called 'units'.

One Unit is group of 6 characters - 1 commander, 2 Lieutenants, and 3 generic officers.  For example:

Commander:  Role
Lieutenant:  Leaf
Lieutenant:  Generic Fighter
Officer:  Generic Warrior
Officer:  Generic Spellblade
Officer:  Generic Pure Mage

That would be the entire unit.  Troops are assumed to be there, fighting in other battles or something.  Only the six officers are actually sent into battle, though.  When the unit is sent into combat, they fight against the enemy unit.  That battle takes takes place in an SRPG like setting.  However...  Before we get to that, these various units are going to be place on the map!

I'm using a traditional risk map for now, so note that the actual map will be different.



Here, we can see that Role's, Hoopa's, Jamie's, and Salanewt's units have been placed in certain areas.  Though only the Unit commander is listed, each unit contains all the members of that unit.



Here, Role moves to attack Jamie's unit.  They go into the SRPG mode and until one either flees or is defeated, they'll duke it out.  Alternatively:  The battle will last a certain number of turns, then it'll be over.  However, keeping in mind strategy...



Hoopa, being on Role's side, and also bordering the territory held by Jamie, can launch a joint strike along with Role.  When this happens, three members of each unit are sent into battle to fight against Jamie, and because it's from two fronts, Jamie will have to endure the pincer formation, and will be at a disadvantage.  All is not lost, however...



After all, it's not like Salanewt will just let his buddy get attacked.  Should they be in trouble when they're attacked, or if an enemy tries to launch a pincer attack, Salanewt can come to the aid of Jamie, sending three of his units to join three of Jamie's.  If this is done to counter a pincer attack, the battle will commence like a normal battle, only with three member from each unit being present.  If it is to send aid to his buddy, three members form Salanewt's group will assist three members from Jamie's group.



Number of units and Generic Members

Because of the uneven number of members in the clans, the number of units is limited.  Though the number is not set at this moment, the clan with the largest number of members will not be able to have one unit for each member to lead.  Basically, expect Jamie and Salanewts units to not be totally full of Generics - rather, there will be one or two other members in their units, much like Role's unit above has Leaf in it.  Units will always have at least three generics in them, however.

If there is only the commander and his unit, then the commander controls the entire unit in battle.  If there's a commander and one other player (like in Role's group above), then each character controls two generics as well.  If there's three, then each character controls one generic as well as their own.  So, if the group becomes:

Commander: Role
Lieutenant: Leaf
Lieutenant: Hoopa
Generics x3

Then each person in that group will control a generic, thus evenly dividing control among the players.

Player character can only be placed in the Commander or Lieutenant position, the rest contain generic units.  Generic units CAN be placed as the Lieutenant or Commander, but player units take priority.  If a unit dies in combat, they stay dead, and the position in the unit does NOT get filled with another character, player or not.

As for the Generic Members themselves, there's four builds that they can have - the same four as the players.  Unlike the players, whom have classes, though, Generic units only have the NPC class.  They cannot be given djinni, either - those are player specific.  What spells a generic member knows depends on what clan they're in.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 12:40:38 AM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 03:08:05 AM »

Alright, here's my take on the World phase:

Movement is simultaneous. Each clan's actions are PM'd to charon or another willing third party, who posts the contents of the PMs, which can then be carried out on the forum. If any two factions land on the same location, a battle will begin. There would probably be something like a three day time limit on sending in actions, and if something is not sent by then, it is considered as passing on the ability to move that turn (although of course it would be encouraged to submit actions sooner). No more than 6 characters of any given faction can be moved into a space each turn, although if and when battle begins, the location they start out will be determined by which entrance they used to get to that location. To prevent complications, each unit can only move 1 space each turn.

The advantages of simultaneous movement over the turn-based world movement you were suggesting is that it enables for many more battles to occur at the same time. If world movement was turn-based, each clan would declare one or a couple battles they wanted to partake in, and that's all. With simultaneous movement, there could be battles involving every clan all over the map. Since there are several members in each clan, this wouldn't be overly stressful for one person having to manage a ton of battles, but it would allow the game to progress at a faster pace. It would also cut down on the time spent in the world phase overall. The downside is that if our third party is absent for any length of time, it will delay the game for however long they're gone.

---

I also have to say I'm now an advocate of having player characters respawn at their clan's "base," after a certain number of turns. Only generics are outright killed in combat. It carries the problem of the PCs becoming more disposable than the NPCs, but... that's the trade-off, I guess. I am utterly opposed to a capture system, which is just needlessly complicating things. I really would've liked to have avoided letting multiple commanders from the same clan partake in a battle, but venus's... existence... makes that difficult.

---

I have more to say on the finer details, but let's work our way down from the top, first.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 03:15:57 AM by leafgreen386 » Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 03:37:12 AM »

I've already expressed my disagreement in relying on a third party for more than just psynergy and equipment submission, but I'll go ahead and put it here:


There should be three phases, and this should be TURN BASED.  Three phases:

Council
Strategy
Battle
[Turn End]

Council basically has things like diplomacy, harvesting materials, Equipping units, etc... AC (Action Credits) is given to the clan in proportion to how many territories are under their control.  Different actions cost different amounts of AC.  Phase ends when either AC is depleted or when the clan agrees to end it.

Strategy is where you move around units and plan attacks.  Basically, this is your war council.  The clan gets together and decides how they want to move the units, and which ones they want to try and attack.  There are additional strategies that can be purchased for coins here, such as boosting the power of your units for a certain number of turns, or lowering the enemy's stats for a certain number of turns (coins are gained in the Council phase by doing certain actions).  What options you have depend on which territories are under your control (different territories give different options).

Battle is, well, the battle phase.  Lasts a certain number of turns - if they enemy is routed, the enemy unit is destroyed (Generics die, Player Characters leave to recover).  If that was the only unit in that territory, the territory becomes captured, and the unit that took it over moves into it.
Turn ends, and the next clan take their turn.


Leaf is right about the unfortunate need for some clan members to double up in a unit.  Since everyone flocks to Venus, unfortunately Venus isn't going to be able to have a unit for every member.  That's why I set up the means for Generic Member controls in my previous post.


I DO want to have the option to capture or convert enemy officers, without having to take out the enemy clan first.  Unfortunately, we can't agree on a method as to how (and apparently, IF...)
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 10:24:10 AM »

Okay, on this order of business, we're going to discuss stats.  JOY.

Okay, first off, there's three tiers of stat growths - they correspond to the movement range of a character.  This affects the character's build:

,--------------------------------------.
| Movement 3 | Movement 4 | Movement 5 |
|------------+------------+------------|
| Gladiator  | Warrior    | Brute      |
| Knight     | Fighter    | Scout      |
| Swordsage  | Spellblade | Ranger     |
| Grand Mage | Pure Mage  | Fwrd Mage  |
`--------------------------------------'


So, I bet you're thinking that:  "Huh, I see no reason why not to take the one with the most movement!"  Think again.  Builds with the MOV of 4 are the standard for each class.  MOV3 builds sacrifice one panel of movement in favor for increased stats, while MOV5 sacrifice stats for increased movement.

Another way to put this:

Movement 3:  Heavy Infantry.  Slow, but powerful.
Movement 4:  Light Infantry.  Balance of speed and power.
Movement 5:  Scouting Party.  Fast, but relatively weak.

Now then, each of these have a different amount of points to spend between their stats at various target levels.  These target levels are the same as those in the Golden Sun games.

        ,-----------------------------------------.
        | Lv01 | Lv19 | Lv39 | Lv59 | Lv79 | Lv99 |
,-------+------+------+------+------+------+------|
| MOV 3 |   90 |  500 |  910 | 1310 | 1705 | 2105 |
| MOV 4 |   85 |  465 |  855 | 1245 | 1635 | 2025 |
| MOV 5 |   80 |  430 |  800 | 1180 | 1565 | 1945 |
`-------------------------------------------------'


But wait!  Before you go spending, there's limits to how many points you can spend or not spend into any one stat!  You MUST fall within a certain range for each stat:

          ,-----------------------------------------.
          | Lv01 | Lv19 | Lv39 | Lv59 | Lv79 | Lv99 |
,---------+------+------+------+------+------+------|
| MHP Max |   33 |  185 |  345 |  505 |  665 |  825 |
| MHP Min |   28 |  142 |  262 |  382 |  502 |  662 |
}---------+------+------+------+------+------+------{
| MPP Max |   24 |  100 |  160 |  220 |  280 |  340 |
| MPP Min |   18 |   56 |   96 |  136 |  176 |  216 |
}---------+------+------+------+------+------+------{
| ATK Max |   13 |   89 |  169 |  249 |  329 |  409 |
| ATK Min |    8 |   65 |  125 |  185 |  245 |  305 |
}---------+------+------+------+------+------+------{
| DEF Max |    8 |   46 |   86 |  126 |  166 |  206 |
| DEF Min |    4 |   23 |   43 |   63 |   83 |  103 |
}---------+------+------+------+------+------+------{
| MND Max |   13 |   89 |  169 |  249 |  329 |  409 |
| MND Min |    8 |   65 |  125 |  185 |  245 |  305 |
}---------+------+------+------+------+------+------{
| WIL Max |    8 |   46 |   86 |  126 |  166 |  206 |
| WIL Min |    4 |   23 |   43 |   63 |   83 |  103 |
`---------------------------------------------------'


Note:  Until we figure out how we're going to approach psynergy, ALL these values are subject to change - particularly Mind and Will values.

This means that you can make your character like Garet - slow and strong, or like Ivan - fast, but frail.  There's many advantages and disadvantages for each.  Higher stats mean you're stronger, but the lower movement means you can't move far or fast at all.  Even worse, you'll have a hard time getting away from sticky situations.  While having a higher movement means you can get out of sticky situations and can move much much faster, you're going to be a bit more frail.  In the end, you'll need to choose whether to go for a heavy, balanced, or light version of your build.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 07:17:18 AM by Role » Logged

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Rolina
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 10:37:27 AM »

Examples of Stats and classes:

Name:  Role
Element:  Jupiter
Build:  Grand Mage (Maces, Scythes, Staffs, Ankhs, Clothing, Robes, -1 MOV penalty)
Class:  Student
Stat Targets:

       ,-----------------------------------.
       | MHP | MPP | ATK | DEF | MND | WIL |
,------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
| Lv00 |  30 |  24 |   9 |   6 |  13 |   8 |
| Lv19 | 164 |  95 |  74 |  37 |  89 |  41 |
| Lv39 | 302 | 160 | 142 |  67 | 164 |  75 |
| Lv59 | 437 | 220 | 204 |  95 | 246 | 108 |
| Lv79 | 575 | 278 | 264 | 122 | 324 | 142 |
| Lv99 | 715 | 336 | 326 | 154 | 398 | 176 |
`------------------------------------------'


Class Progression:

Student → Collegian → Graduate → Assistant → Scholar

            ,-----------------------------------------.
            | MHP% | MPP% | ATK% | DEF% | MND% | WIL% |
,-----------+------+------+------+------+------+------|
| Student   |  85% | 125% |  70% |  75% | 135% | 120% |
| Collegian | 100% | 135% |  80% |  85% | 150% | 130% |
| Graduate  | 110% | 150% |  90% |  95% | 160% | 145% |
| Assistant | 125% | 165% | 100% | 105% | 170% | 155% |
| Scholar   | 135% | 175% | 110% | 115% | 185% | 170% |
`-----------------------------------------------------'


Clan Rank:  Grand Overlady (Leader: +20% to all stats)

Let's assume we're doing a Level 1 game.  The stats become this:

Base:

HP:       37
PP:       28
Attack:   12
Defense:   8
Mind:     17
Will:     10
Movement:  3


After Class Modifications:

Tier 1 Play    Tier 2 Play    Tier 3 Play    Tier 4 Play    Tier 5 Play

HP:       31   HP:       37   HP:       41   HP:       46   HP:       50
PP:       35   PP:       37   PP:       42   PP:       46   PP:       50
Attack:    9   Attack:   10   Attack:   11   Attack:   12   Attack:   14
Defense:   6   Defense:   6   Defense:   7   Defense:   8   Defense:   9
Mind:     23   Mind:     26   Mind:     27   Mind:     29   Mind:     31
Will:     12   Will:     13   Will:     14   Will:     15   Will:     17
Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3

After applying Clan Rank Bonus:  (Leader Rank: +20% to all stats)

Tier 1 Play    Tier 2 Play    Tier 3 Play    Tier 4 Play    Tier 5 Play

HP:       38   HP:       44   HP:       49   HP:       56   HP:       60
PP:       42   PP:       45   PP:       50   PP:       55   PP:       58
Attack:   10   Attack:   12   Attack:   13   Attack:   15   Attack:   16
Defense:   7   Defense:   8   Defense:   9   Defense:  10   Defense:  11
Mind:     28   Mind:     31   Mind:     33   Mind:     35   Mind:     38
Will:     14   Will:     15   Will:     17   Will:     18   Will:     20
Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3   Movement:  3



Example 2:

Name:  Vorlan
Element:  Jupiter
Build:  Ranger (Blades, Scythes, Staffs, Ankhs, Mage Robes, +1 MOV)
Class:  Vagabond

       ,-----------------------------------.
       | MHP | MPP | ATK | DEF | MND | WIL |
,------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----|
| Lv00 |  29 |  20 |  10 |   5 |  11 |   5 |
| Lv19 | 149 |  72 |  72 |  27 |  82 |  28 |
| Lv39 | 289 | 118 | 135 |  49 | 157 |  52 |
| Lv59 | 430 | 166 | 199 |  72 | 235 |  78 |
| Lv79 | 577 | 243 | 250 |  98 | 287 | 110 |
| Lv99 | 715 | 300 | 310 | 116 | 380 | 124 |
`------------------------------------------'


Class Progression:

Vagabond → Wanderer→ Troubadour → Mystic → Esoteric

             ,-----------------------------------------.
             | MHP% | MPP% | ATK% | DEF% | MND% | WIL% |
,------------+------+------+------+------+------+------|
| Vagabond   | 140% | 110% |  80% |  70% | 140% |  70% |
| Wanderer   | 155% | 120% |  90% |  80% | 155% |  80% |
| Troubadour | 170% | 135% | 100% |  90% | 165% |  90% |
| Mystic     | 185% | 145% | 110% | 100% | 175% | 105% |
| Esoteric   | 200% | 160% | 120% | 110% | 185% | 115% |
`------------------------------------------------------'


Clan Rank:  Jupiter Adept (Member:  No modification)

Let's assume we're doing a Level 1 game.  The stats become this:

Base:

HP:       35
PP:       23
Attack:   13
Defense:   6
Mind:     15
Will:      6
Movement:  5


After Class Modifications:

Tier 1 Play    Tier 2 Play    Tier 3 Play    Tier 4 Play    Tier 5 Play

HP:       49   HP:       55   HP:       60   HP:       65   HP:       71
PP:       25   PP:       27   PP:       31   PP:       33   PP:       36
Attack:   11   Attack:   12   Attack:   13   Attack:   15   Attack:   16
Defense:   4   Defense:   5   Defense:   6   Defense:   6   Defense:   7
Mind:     21   Mind:     23   Mind:     24   Mind:     26   Mind:     27
Will:      4   Will:      5   Will:      6   Will:      7   Will:      7
Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5

After applying Clan Rank Bonus:  (Member Rank: No modifications)

Tier 1 Play    Tier 2 Play    Tier 3 Play    Tier 4 Play    Tier 5 Play

HP:       49   HP:       55   HP:       60   HP:       65   HP:       71
PP:       25   PP:       27   PP:       31   PP:       33   PP:       36
Attack:   11   Attack:   12   Attack:   13   Attack:   15   Attack:   16
Defense:   4   Defense:   5   Defense:   6   Defense:   6   Defense:   7
Mind:     21   Mind:     23   Mind:     24   Mind:     26   Mind:     27
Will:      4   Will:      5   Will:      6   Will:      7   Will:      7
Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5   Movement:  5


About Clan Rank Bonuses:  Clan Leaders get an additional 20% boost to their stats, Clan Seconds get an additional 10% boost.  When a power shift occurs, those no longer in power lose their clan rank bonus, and those who came to power gain their bonus.  After all, leaders shouldn't be that easy to defeat.  Generics, being, well, Generics, get a -10% modifier.  All other clan members have no modification.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:57:49 PM by Role » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 10:51:56 AM »

Level up formulas

This will NOT use chance for levelups.  You will ALWAYS hit your target stats.  There's a formula used here, one for each range:

Between 0 and 19:

Value = L0 Value + ((L19 Value - L0 Value) * (Level / 19))

Between 19 and 39:

Value = L19 Value + ((L39 Value - L19 Value) * ((Level - 19) / 20))

Between 39 and 59:

Value = L39 Value + ((L59 Value - L39 Value) * ((Level - 39) / 20))

Between 59 and 79:

Value = L59 Value + ((L79 Value - L59 Value) * ((Level - 59) / 20))

Between 79 and 99:

Value = L79 Value + ((L99 Value - L79 Value) * ((Level - 79) / 20))

Always always ALWAYS round numbers to the nearest whole number.  Assuming you're using MS Excel, this is easily done by selecting the cell you put the formula in and changing the data format to "Number" and change the number of decimal places down to 0.  It'll automatically round it to the nearest number if you do that.
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 11:20:15 AM »

Specifics on Class:

Being a bit more specific on classes, here's how it works:

As mentioned before, you have 610 points to spend.  You can do these in multiples of five, and cannot spend less than 60 in one stat or more than 140 in another stat.  When you class up, however, each value goes up by 10, and you get an additional 10 points to spend.  You can either put 10 more into HP (as was done in the original games), or split it up among any two stats, spending 5 instead of 10.  This means that at the final tier of your class, you cannot have ANY stat below 100, nor ANY stat above 200, except for HP, which has a limit of 220 instead.

Here's some pointers when making your class:

  • Don't neglect a stat too much.  Though you can have a minimum of 100% for a stat in your final tier, you will be at a severe disadvantage if that is the case.  Sometimes it's better to not go for the 200/220 in order to make sure your weaknesses aren't that crippling.
  • You may think minmaxing makes you really powerful, but in reality it makes you brittle.  Don't risk becoming worthless because you have no defense or no attack strength.
  • Obviously, you'll want a layout that benefits your build.  No point in having a low attack stat if you're a Warrior!
  • It is not uncommon for your build to reflect your stat growths.  Even the GS characters in the games had this going on with their base classes.
  • Keep in mind that you CANNOT CHANGE TO NON-BASE CLASSES.  You only have your base class for the sake of this game, so don't think you can change classes to cover weaknesses.
  • Also remember that it's not a very good idea to try and spend your points to make up for lower stats.  Starting min-maxed and ending well-rounded isn't as good as always being well rounded.
  • Spreadsheet programs like Microsoft Excel are your BEST FRIEND.  When making your class, plug the values into EXCEL first to make sure that you're not spending too many or too little points.
  • Finally, remember that these are still guidelines.  You don't have to follow them if you don't want to, but you may regret it if you don't.  Put a lot of thought into your character and make them exactly how you want them!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:41:34 AM by Role » Logged

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October 13, 2018, 03:23:06 AM
Salanewt: Updated it to provide more info that I forgot to mention.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:48 AM
Salanewt: I'm still trying to iron out IQ 2 but I'm pretty sure it's entirely random targeting.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:29 AM
Salanewt: Oh yeah, I posted some more info about enemy IQ.
October 12, 2018, 09:51:27 PM
FoxThe HTML5 project is too small to count
October 12, 2018, 06:19:48 AM
Luna_blade: there is jjppof's html5 project...
October 12, 2018, 06:19:17 AM
Luna_blade: Though Momo rings a bell it seems I came here after you left
October 11, 2018, 12:49:41 AM
Fox: (If that makes sense.)
October 11, 2018, 12:48:33 AM
Fox: Yeah, I guess so.  More just saying that's a good place to get answers to GS related questions at the moment.
October 11, 2018, 12:42:28 AM
Crystal Sonata: I did before, but I guess I could try it again
October 11, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
Fox: Not much at the moment. This forum seems pretty quiet. Perhaps you'd be interested in joining the Discord for GSHC that seems to have more activity?
October 10, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Crystal Sonata: Any projects going on? I need a distraction from the daily grind and I'm interested in hacking GS again.
October 10, 2018, 10:02:53 PM
Fox: Thanks, and good to see you too!
October 10, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Fox: A few people I'm sure... Most likely the regulars of the past. Such as Atrius, Charon, Role, Salanewt....
October 10, 2018, 03:11:17 AM
Crystal Sonata: I find myself wondering who still remembers me here. Obvs you do (Good to see ya Tea)
October 10, 2018, 12:46:11 AM
Fox: On second thought, it might be because you haven't posted much as Crystal Sonata.
October 10, 2018, 12:41:12 AM
Fox: And your intro isn't that bad. - I imagine most people would say the same about theirs?
October 10, 2018, 12:39:39 AM
Fox: :O - You've been gone so long, I think I forgot you were Momo.  Interesting.
October 09, 2018, 10:23:39 PM
Crystal Sonata: I just revisited my dark past on here and ouch. Someone delete that introduction thread please, the cringe.
October 09, 2018, 08:26:11 AM
Crystal Sonata: Aaaaand, she re-appears yet again. My life keeps dragging me away from the internet sadly.
October 01, 2018, 01:27:50 PM
Luna_blade: haha oof.

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