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Author Topic: Golden Sun Empires - system development thread  (Read 14894 times)
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Mastermind
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 05:28:24 PM »

Role, regarding your idea about the AoE, I think that a system this complicated might make it harder to join without feeling overwhelmed. Is there any way that this could be simplified?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 05:30:04 PM by Mastermind » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 06:36:44 PM »

I agree that we should be aiming to simplify things as much as possible, while still retaining depth.

I think even NPCs should get class bonuses. All PCs would get some additional stat bonus that sets them apart from the NPCs. I'm thinking +10% to all stats except HP, and +20% to HP. Clan leaders and clan seconds get a bigger bonus: +20% to all stats except HP for both, +50% to HP for a clan second, and +80% to HP for a clan leader.

Funny that it seems role and I disagree even on the best way to build a character. Unless we have different definitions of minimaxing. There's no reason for a mage to have anything except min atk, since it shouldn't ever be using its attack.

I'll comment more later.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 06:42:23 PM »

The statement about a mage is incorrect, at least at low levels. Low-level mages have too few spells to allow them to fight entirely with spells, forcing them to use physical combat.
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 07:46:06 PM »

Thanks for all the hard work guys. Role, feel free to edit the rules in the General section to fit these - I can't get on very much this week.
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2010, 09:18:15 PM »

While role may not have been very clear when she was laying out the stats and stuff, giving values for each level marker and all, we both agree that there should be no leveling up in this game. Due to the presence of generics, we would end up needing to manage hundreds of characters, which would be a mess. Not to mention how easily a character could become overpowered.

Where we disagree is that I think we should just worry about one medium-ish level, whereas role wants to make this playable for all levels. For how long this game is gonna take to complete, I don't see the point in worrying about other levels right now.

Also, I'd like to suggest that any time rounding is involved, it instead rounds down to the nearest whole number. I'm not sure if this is how GS worked, but I know it's how it works in most games. This also means no sneaking in free points with a 0.5 =p
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 12:02:25 AM »

Alright, I see. However, I'll still keep the Tiers but based on their stat totals rather than levels.

Hrm, I'm a bit worried about the AoE though. I want this to be something accessible to everyone, and perhaps that could be confusing. There may be a way to set it up with text rather than pictures though.

I'm digging the world map thing though. Perhaps we could have a forum for Wars and for the little 1-1 skirmishes?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 12:08:05 AM by Charon the Ferryman » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 12:30:22 AM »

The only thing confusing about AoE is that there are multiple kinds. If we just went with having range and splash, each with appropriate levels, it would be fine, I think.

Also, I'd like recommend the standard terminology:

Lv0 splash = 1 range psys
Lv1 splash = 3 range psys
Lv2 splash = 5 range psys
Lv3 splash = 7 range psys

Because it just doesn't make sense to refer to something as having 3 range when it hits 5 squares. Movement and attack range would be labeled similarly (in that case, lv0 would mean the square the character is standing on).

Not sure entirely what you meant by the wars and 1-1 skirmishes thing, though.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 12:36:33 AM »

I don't mind the ranges, but I'd rather have a battlefield set up in text, so everyone can try it. For example:

_ could symbolize empty space. The first letter of your name would be you (if there are two with the same letter, use lowercase, if further, use a colour). Like this:

_ _ _ C _ _ _

And then you could set up something like this:

_ _ _ C _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ L _ _ _


Then we could set up certain ranges like that. That way, people would just have to copy/paste/type to preform movements or show attacks. Of course, this wouldn't work so well in the wars, but we can come up with a system for that later.

Wars would be battles between the clan members over land - this way there would be an actual visual representation of the actual wars. 1-1 skirmishes would be simple battles between two people.
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 12:52:29 AM »

Eh... I think it'd be easier to just use images. Need to work in some kind of coordinate system, though...

I'm not entirely sure how the skirmishes would work out, but the SRPG part of this game should be very playable on its own, so I see no reason why not.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Charon
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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 01:02:31 AM »

The problem with images is that some people would not be able to edit the images. It's not pretty but it's more accessible.
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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2010, 01:05:32 AM »

Images are editable in paint lol
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 01:44:59 AM »

The only thing confusing about AoE is that there are multiple kinds. If we just went with having range and splash, each with appropriate levels, it would be fine, I think.

Also, I'd like recommend the standard terminology:

Lv0 splash = 1 range psys
Lv1 splash = 3 range psys
Lv2 splash = 5 range psys
Lv3 splash = 7 range psys

Because it just doesn't make sense to refer to something as having 3 range when it hits 5 squares. Movement and attack range would be labeled similarly (in that case, lv0 would mean the square the character is standing on).

Not sure entirely what you meant by the wars and 1-1 skirmishes thing, though.

Eeeeh... Not every psynergy can have the same area.  Beam, for instance, wouldn't have a "Splash" area... But that's a good start.

As for level ups - they don't happen.  Rather, everyone agrees on a level and tier of play - Level being the experience level (stats are easily adjusted by using the formula I provided), and Tier for Class Tier.  A Tier 1 game always has lower stats and weaker spells/skill than higher tier games.  Generally, the lower the tier, the simpler the game, the higher the tier, the more intense the game.
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« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2010, 12:01:02 PM »

The only problem without the tiers is simply that people in the game longer can purchase more djinn and items, and thus be stronger, thus giving them an unfair advantage over those just starting off. Even if we made all the items approx. the same power with different effects, djinn would still be able to screw things up. I don't like the idea of taking out the stat differences completely though, there's gotta be some swing into it. Perhaps the djinn can work like in Golden Sun, where when used they must be set in order to use them again, and in the meantime they lower the stats to the original values.

I still like Role's original range idea, but still not so big on the images. Let's see how it works out, I could easily be wrong.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 12:04:42 PM by Charon the Ferryman » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2010, 04:06:55 PM »

Quote
The only problem without the tiers is simply that people in the game longer can purchase more djinn and items, and thus be stronger, thus giving them an unfair advantage over those just starting off.

Looks like SOMEbody wasn't listening.  The things from the forum and things from the game are SEPARATE.  Levels are determined by agreement, not by forum levels.  What class tier people will be using is determined by mutual agreement, NOT by how many djinn you've acquired outside the game.  What the djinn are are even independent of the forum statistics.
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2010, 04:09:14 PM »

If possible, could you please summarize this entire thing in one paragraph? As far as I can tell... I can barely follow this thing. Is it a game or forum statistics?

Have a nice day.
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Cbox
January 17, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
KyleRunner: :D
January 16, 2018, 08:44:56 PM
Fox: I must say... life can be complicated..... when you have question(s) (via email) ... and it seems like they sort of get ignored. :D ; Fun, (And sometimes, a person may respond, and completely not answer the question.... so like... 3-person conversation.) Hahahaha!!
January 15, 2018, 07:26:16 PM
Fox: (path) 1 text=(address) char=(address) free=(address) ; << Well, closer to this... but yeah... even if I do choose to have defaults in the code, I could still use this method for overrides.
January 15, 2018, 07:24:28 PM
Fox: So like (path) 0 text=(address) char=(address) len=(number) ; (path) 1 free=(address) ; Or something. But that's just a quick example.
January 15, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
Fox: Hopefully. I was wanting to make it so you could put in the addresses/etc. as one of the arguments in the path. Hm?
January 15, 2018, 03:37:07 PM
KyleRunner: Nice! I hope you'll add compatibility with others games (GS1, Mario Golf and Tennis) soon.
January 14, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
Fox: Okay. Posted (in Downloads section) an initial cutdown version for now, for my text compressor. Basically to separate the code from my Editor for anyone who wants to mess with it. It only supports GS2, because I still didn't add the addresses/etc. for the other games.
January 14, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
Fox: Okay! Going to need to think how I want it to work. Initial thoughts is maybe have a number of arguments in the filepath thing. And have a number of shortcuts (files) to be used as examples. Assuming there are no problems.
January 14, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
KyleRunner: Well... I'm used to editing text ina a text editor, so... yes! Thanks in advance!
January 13, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
Fox: (Text editor = Text Document like notepad.)
January 13, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Fox: Would you prefer during the text editing in a text editor? (Like what gstoolkit lets you do?) I could probably make a separate tool or something to compress it.
January 13, 2018, 10:10:02 PM
KyleRunner: Ok. Once I finish my Lost Age translation, I'll try a Mario Golf one. Thanks. (But I'll need help).
January 13, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Fox: If you want to make it "permanent" (part of a hack), then you'd edit code in the ROM that writes to this location of the IDs you'd want to change. (You can find these locations by using a breakpoint debugger like SDL-H or no$gba.)
January 13, 2018, 10:00:11 PM
Fox: Reload/switch = Recommended to be done through Debug mode/warp menu, ofcourse... since doors seem to appear as if they were disabled? ; 03001238:01 and B+Start to get to warp menu.
January 13, 2018, 09:55:39 PM
Fox: @Kyle Runner = It might be, but you'd have to use the correct addresses for Mario Golf, rather than for GS2 as I have it right now. ; @raijinken = Yes. 02000454 = ID of leader. (Change this and reload/switch room you are in, enjoy.)
January 13, 2018, 02:23:29 PM
raijinken: Hey guys, is it possible to somehow change the lead character on the map? Was wondering. I remember there was a cheat to use Jenna, but what if I wanted Isaac, or Piers?
January 13, 2018, 02:10:03 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, Fox *
January 13, 2018, 02:09:37 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, is your text editor compatible with Mario Golf (GBA)?
January 11, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Fox: But if it isn't an oversight, I still can't imagine it being that useful.
January 11, 2018, 08:28:24 PM
Fox: part, ofcourse.

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