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Author Topic: Golden Sun Empires - system development thread  (Read 17815 times)
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Charon
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« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2010, 07:31:26 PM »

Then why did you guys act like that, getting all fired up and all?

I understand what you guys want to do, I'm setting up generic tools so you guys can use them instead of sticky threads, which would be a clunky way to do it. I'm playing a minimal role so that you guys can develop it, so I can take a backseat and preform administrator tasks with the custom profile fields so it's much easier to access and change information. The problem is is that the custom profile fields only allow Administrators the ability to edit them when not shown to the public, which is a difficult annoying thing to deal with.
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leaf
Potions class is starting
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« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2010, 08:42:26 PM »

Because, take it from us, it is extremely frustrating trying to work with someone when you're not on the same page. You were talking about stuff entirely unrelated to anything either of us were proposing.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Charon
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« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2010, 08:54:45 PM »

Although I should have honestly posted this in your thread, Leaf, because I had no idea it was going to be two games. Lol
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leaf
Potions class is starting
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« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2010, 09:26:15 PM »

To be fair, neither did we until a little less than a week ago.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Charon
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« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2010, 10:39:10 PM »

Hahaha, it seemed more like you were trying to form different details than two entirely different games.

Regardless, just let me know which fields you need from now on, and let me know if you want me to toggle it so that other members besides the administrators can change it. Also, I can help organize several new forums for you guys so you can do separate areas easier.
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leaf
Potions class is starting
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« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2010, 01:02:39 AM »

Quote
Hahaha, it seemed more like you were trying to form different details than two entirely different games.
Sorta. Originally we were just working on different details, but it turned out that the details we were working on weren't compatible with each other at all; we went about balancing combat in entirely different ways.

Quote
Regardless, just let me know which fields you need from now on, and let me know if you want me to toggle it so that other members besides the administrators can change it. Also, I can help organize several new forums for you guys so you can do separate areas easier.
That sounds good. I can't see us actually needing the profile fields for this, but getting the forums used for the games set up is gonna be pretty important.
Logged

Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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Rolina
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Jupiter Clan

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I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
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« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2010, 08:30:59 AM »

Well, for profiles and stuff, usually a sticky thread is all we need, and since we have the power to make those in our respective games, then I see no need there.  Subforums and the like may be needed, though, so we'll let you know if and when we need them.

Since Leaf's game is more SRPG-like, and mine tries its best to reflect golden sun, I'd that when it comes to the just-for-fun forum stats, we could easily apply my system to them.  I've spoke of this many times as to how to implement it - the only problem we'd come across is the minor bit of coding we'd need for the plug-and-play fields.  It's been so long since I've taken computer science, I doubt I'll be much help, and I'm sure Atrius'll not be too keen on it - he didn't like the idea of clans in the first place, after all.  Making a tool for "forum stats" I can't see him really getting motivated to do.

Anywho, here's the jist of what I'd like to see:

      CT1      CT2      CT3      CT4      CT5              Build             Djinn
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______            ______            ______
    |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|          |______|          |______|

     Max HP   Max PP   Attack  Defense    Mind     Will    Agility   Luck    Total
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L00 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L19 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L39 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L59 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L79 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
L99 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|

     Max HP   Max PP   Attack  Defense    Mind     Will    Agility   Luck    Total
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
CT1 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
CT2 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
CT3 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
CT4 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
     ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
CT5 |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______| |______|
              _______________                     _______________
       Clan: |_______________|        Clan Rank: |_______________|


Instructions:  Put the names of each Class Tier in the appropriate
field.  For example, Role's CT1 value is "Student".  Select the
build - this determines the stat targets for the Total's Auto-check
function, as well as the displayed build type and speed "stat".
Input how many djinn the character has (min is 0, max is 9).  This
determines which class tier will be displayed on the forums
(example: if Role has 4 djinn, then her Class Tier 3 name and stat
multipliers will be displayed in her stat spread).  Next, put the
stats for each value into the appropriate places - Max HP for Level
00 target, Max PP for Level 00 target, etc.  The totals will
automatically be calculated as you go, and will be displayed in Red
until the appropriate value for that build displayed.  If when all
of the values have been entered, one of the values is red, check
the values you entered for typos, and make sure you selected the
correct build.  If the value is the correct target value and is red,
that means that an illegal value was entered (above or below the max
allowed for a stat).  Find it, scold the person for trying to sneak
an illegal value in, then have them correct it.  If all is black,
all is good.  For the CT fields, insert the multipliers WITHOUT the
percent sign.  The Totals will turn red for the same reasons here -
either an illegal value was entered, or the totals do not add up to
the required values.  Finally after that, the field for clan rank
must be selected.  Choose from "Leader", "Second", "Member", and
"Unclanned".  These are not displayed in the stat layout (rather,
the Clan Position field does that well enough already.  No need for
redundancy), however they DO have an effect on the stats themselves.
Leaders have an additional 20% boost, Second-in-commands have an
additional 10%, members remain unmodified, and unclanned get a -10%
modifier, effectively becoming "generic".  NOTE: This is for FORUM
STATS ONLY - in my system they actually have no modification, and
instead are just thrown in as "mercenaries".

New notes as of edit:  Due to future changes, additional stats of
Agility and Luck are included.  There will also be a drop down menu
for choosing the clan (Deity, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, Unlcanned),
though this is optional.  It'd not toggle permissions, but I figure it may
grant a simple effect, like changing the image for their Online/Offline icon
or something.  However, one thing it WOULD do is change the selectable
options in the Clan Position field - the options would change to the two
clan positions (leader and second) for that clan - for an example, for
Jupiter, it'd be Grand Overlady (or Overlord if male) and Head Advisor.
The option option would be 'Clan Member'.  For unclanned, the only
option available is NPC.  These would determine stats just as described
above - Leader gets a +20%, Second gets a +10%, and NPCs get -10%.
A new option for Dieties would be present as well.  The two titles -
Creation God of Sol (+40% to all stats) and Trickster Goddess of Luna
(+30% to all stats).

From here, the only thing to determine is level - easily done by post count.
After that would be class, which would either be done by awards, submissions,
purchase, or however you plan to do it.  Basically, however you decide to hand
out djinn, that will determine the increase in the number of djinn.  They will
NOT increase stats, since it'd get too complicated (the same reason why there's
no equipment as well), but what you'd do is go and augment their djinn number
accordingly.  I figured Atrius and Charon would have an eternal 9 for their djinn
number, but for unclanned unfortunately there's no way for them to attain any
djinn.  Not like there exists a Saturn Element, after all.  That'd just be silly.


If you need any more explanation, I can try and do it.  But this is the gist of the tool that you'd use.  It'd take a LOT of manual entry out of it - especially if we can create a Post-to-experience thing to automatically level people up as they post.  That way, all you have to do is enter the initial values, and BAM, you're done!  You'd only go in to change the number of djinn or their clan rank.  That's it!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:47:05 AM by Role » Logged

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Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

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Coins: 10
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I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #67 on: August 24, 2010, 08:32:14 AM »

After thinking about things a bit, determining turn order and dealing with the ailments problem has come to make me realize that we may require the AGL and LUK stats to be involved.

I figured I'd do something simple for AGL - basically, the higher the AGL, the sooner you appear on the turn order.  You can't move more than once before someone with a lower AGL, but it does determine the order that people are allowed to move and attack.  Basically, it works like in Golden Sun, instead of pretty much every SRPG with an AGL stat out there.  Instead of having to keep track of things like 'how much time has passed vs how quickly their speed stat will let them act', simply determining who acts first is FAR easier to deal with.  It also allows for AGL boosting abilities, which would temporarily allow for altered turn order.

Again, just to clarify, a heavy unit will NOT be able to pile on the AGL to make up for a lack of movement - it just means they move first, not more often.  Even if you deploy a Tank before your Hummer, the Hummer's gonna get more ground.


Luck, unfortunately, looks like it'll be a necessary evil.  We simply CANNOT keep chance out of this and allow for Ailments to exist - and ailments make up a lot of strategy.  Unfortunately, it'll look like I may have to add Luck to offset the broken nature of guaranteed ailment lands.

I'm also considering adding in critical hits, as well as looking for other ways to improve physical combat.  As it stands now, though I really don't want to come up with an equipment system, I need some way to balance things at higher level play.  As it stands, psynergy improves with spells, but the physical blow's answer to better spells - better equipment - is absent.  What I may wind up doing is have additional stat boosts for higher levels and tiers of play - possibly 2 points for every level or something.  Not certain, but nothing a bit of testing won't solve.
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Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
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Coins: 10
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Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2011, 09:53:56 PM »

I still have my old system, by the way.  It's been tweaked a bit, and the stuff is a bit more advanced.  If y'all really want this to start up again, I can start working on bringing it back over.  However, it's not going to be a forum game - the goal will be to turn it into an actual, playable SRPG, and we'll definitely need atrius' help coding it.

Before I left and took the stuff with me earlier, he actually expressed interest into working on turning it into an actual game, so if y'all want to help me here, I'm more than willing to listen.  What I really need help on is people to help run formulas and make some art for it (Sprites, portraits, etc...).  So if you're willing to help out, let me know.  If I get enough support, I'll turn it into an official project.
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Emblems: Second in Command of Jupiter
Clan Position: Jovian Head Adviser
Posts: 437

« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2011, 10:00:44 PM »

Oh really!? Cool! I'll be glad to help with anything I can, but you'll have to tell me strictly what you want to do. In short, I'm at your disposal!
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"You seek the truth but are you able to handle it? What you find may not be what you expected... and it may ruin you in the end. Knowing that, will you continue onwards in your journey? Or will you give up and return to a life of apathy? The choice is yours..."
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Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 10
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2011, 10:09:49 PM »

Well, knowing what you're good at doing is important.  I don't wanna put you in an area you've got no expertise in, after all.
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Emblems: Second in Command of Jupiter
Clan Position: Jovian Head Adviser
Posts: 437

« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2011, 10:26:17 PM »

Hrm... depends. I'm pretty good at math, so I could do formulas, but I know nothing about them. I've done a little spriting, but i think the most I could do is make icons, not full blown character sprites. I've yet to do much in that area. Um... anything else I could do?
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"You seek the truth but are you able to handle it? What you find may not be what you expected... and it may ruin you in the end. Knowing that, will you continue onwards in your journey? Or will you give up and return to a life of apathy? The choice is yours..."
View Profile
Rolina
The Fulminous Witch
Jupiter Clan

Template maker turned lurker

Alchemist
*

Coins: 10
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
I am: wondering if we can get our clan position changed...
Clan Position: Grand Overlady of Jupiter
Posts: 6051

« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2011, 11:00:06 PM »

Well, as for formulas it's good that you're good at math.  Formulas right now mainly need testing so we can see across a variety of data how the end result will turn out.  If I can get some more people to get some numbers done, and we can share the XLS files to compare the results of the tests, it'll be a lot of help.

Once we've figured that out, we'll also need to start working on making generic units.  There will be 18 for each element to make, so that's 72 generic units to make, each separate from the others (a Jovian Warrior will have different stats and growths than the same unit in Venus, for example.  This gives clanless "mercenary units" a lot more to choose from instead of just unit type, element, and moveset, while making distinct differences in the Clanned Armies.

As for Fundaments, those will easily be handled by moveset.  Using the chart I have in the clan signups, we can easily just have the three types of specialists, as well as one generalist setup for each unit type.  Since I don't want 288 units with different stats, it'll just be the 72 units, each with four movesets to choose from.

I'm also thinking about having fundaments cause an effect on success and/or failure rate of actions.  A unit attacking another one with the same fundament has a very, VERY small drop in success rate in their action, while attacking the opposing element has a very, VERY small rise in success.  Neutral skillsets are unaffected, and generalist skillsets are less powerful, but have multiple fundamental skills.  The effect though is very minor, since the ELEMENTS are supposed to be the major factors in battle - so I'm thinking ±2.5% final success rate for the fundament check.  It'll be very minor, not enough to get in the way, but enough to acknowledge their existence, as well as have at least some influence.

Fundamental affinity will be tied to actual skills, though, so just a heads up to you guys in the fundamental clans - if you want to still be of that fundament, you'll want to have a skillset of that fundament.  And Charon... yeah, you make no sense in Sol.  Get the hell out, miss Trickster Goddess of LUNA.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 11:05:34 PM by Role » Logged

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Cbox
December 09, 2018, 07:43:31 PM
Fox: A banana for you, a banana for me, let's all open a banana and enjoy!
December 08, 2018, 09:48:52 PM
Drake baku: ba... ba.... bana.... bana.... banana.... nanananananananana..... and now back to doing normal, kinda
December 07, 2018, 05:43:02 PM
Luna_blade: Hey I forgot the christmas theme
November 29, 2018, 09:01:09 AM
zman9000: ded
November 19, 2018, 11:05:28 AM
Drake baku: Good day to ya all
October 30, 2018, 09:45:58 PM
Atrius: There used to be where I got the battle sprites for Kraden, but that site doesn't exist any more.
October 26, 2018, 01:31:40 PM
Infitek: Do you know if there any custom Alex battle sprites available on the internet ?
October 26, 2018, 01:31:01 PM
Infitek: Hey everyone
October 13, 2018, 03:23:06 AM
Salanewt: Updated it to provide more info that I forgot to mention.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:48 AM
Salanewt: I'm still trying to iron out IQ 2 but I'm pretty sure it's entirely random targeting.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:29 AM
Salanewt: Oh yeah, I posted some more info about enemy IQ.
October 12, 2018, 09:51:27 PM
FoxThe HTML5 project is too small to count
October 12, 2018, 06:19:48 AM
Luna_blade: there is jjppof's html5 project...
October 12, 2018, 06:19:17 AM
Luna_blade: Though Momo rings a bell it seems I came here after you left
October 11, 2018, 12:49:41 AM
Fox: (If that makes sense.)
October 11, 2018, 12:48:33 AM
Fox: Yeah, I guess so.  More just saying that's a good place to get answers to GS related questions at the moment.
October 11, 2018, 12:42:28 AM
Crystal Sonata: I did before, but I guess I could try it again
October 11, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
Fox: Not much at the moment. This forum seems pretty quiet. Perhaps you'd be interested in joining the Discord for GSHC that seems to have more activity?
October 10, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Crystal Sonata: Any projects going on? I need a distraction from the daily grind and I'm interested in hacking GS again.
October 10, 2018, 10:02:53 PM
Fox: Thanks, and good to see you too!

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