I know that there's no news out about the pretty-much guaranteed sequel, but I've been thinking about a character line up that would allow a transfer of members from DD without giving a huge party.
1:Son of Felix and Sheba. Would finally give a long sword wielding Jupiter character, even if the tri-element classes would still be a hindrance for a physical battler.
2: Takeru. Probably comes with a Cloud Brand or gets it as part of the story later.
3: Nowell. Probably a healer, but since Piers is travelling with her and probably training her, she could get the Mariner class.
4: Fire adept... possibly from Prox if Felix lives there, which I'm thinking he might.
Then in transfer, you'd probably get Matthew, Tyrell and Karis, withRief if Kraden returns, or Amiti if they want to expand on his story, though since it's likely he's [spoiler]king of Ayuthay[/spoiler] he probably won't be an actual party member.
Alternatively, there's
1:Felix's Earth adept son, hopefully with a different base class to Matthew
2:Sheba's daughter, with Mind Read this time, not like Karis.
3:Nowell.
4:There aren't really many Mars adepts to pick from.
5:Takeru
6:The girl from Contigo in TLA
7:A Lemurian, possibly. Or one of Mia's apprentices.
Any other ideas?
That was a nice thought for a lineup.
I don't think that takeru would be a part of the team, more like a character that you help over and over again.
That baby in contigo would seem like someone reasonable, but that would mean that she would be just like eoleo(30 while helping 15-18 year olds.)
Maybe karst and agatio have a child, they die and felix raise it as his own with sheba.
There might be a point where you get someone from the original 8
I don't think they'd let you control anyone from the original 8. It was pretty clear in Dark Dawn that their quest was over and finished, and they that they wanted the next generation to take over.
I also find it unlikely that any unnamed Adepts from the original games would become party members.
To tell you the truth, I rather wonder if they're planning something more elaborate than TLA's dumping of TBS's party. It's possible that they introduce a completely new 8 for GS4 and then make a GS5 and maybe even GS6 which mix and match various members of the parties.
I think Durza is right about Amiti, but I suppose it isn't unthinkable that he might rejoin the party.
It still seems a bit irresponsible to just tell the new generation to take over, though, since the old characters are pretty much immortal. Who knows what Felix and Sheba are doing, and Piers is still roaming the sea. I think it's more like Isaac won't consider his quest finished until he returns to Sol Sanctum to see what's going on there, possibly returning the Mars power the Wise One gave him.
If they're using a completely new party, hopefully they'll all be available before the endgame.
why haven't I read this yet? I've been thinking the same things.
This is my idea for GS4 party, that it is.
1. Matthew.
2. Tyrell.
3. Ahri (Contigo baby).
4. Megan (that little girl in Imil).
5. Takeru (hopefully he'd be better than his sister).
6. Akafubu's kid.
7. A rogue Tuaparang.
8. Vande (that beastman musician in GS3 (the named one)).
Seems interesting, but it's also unlikely Karis wouldn't be there if the other two are. And you'd be starting the game on level 50+ if you did get those three. I would agree Takeru's likely to make an appearance if you get to use Piers' ship at all.
QuoteSeems interesting, but it's also unlikely Karis wouldn't be there if the other two are.
Well, I'm hoping for the same thing that happened to Jenna in GS1 to happen to Karis in GS4, that I am.
Karis' personality annoyed the HELL out of me, that it did.
And that's why I didn't include her.
I kind of got that at the start of the game. Not so much towards the end.
All the characters personalities annoyed the heck out of me, with the exceptions of Eoleo, Matthew, and (strangely enough) Kraden. Everyone else was really repetitive a lot of the time, taking the opportunity to point out things that everyone in the room already knew. Karis would've been a cool character if she weren't so repetitive. And Himi and Sveta don't have any personality whatsoever between the two of them.
Quote from: Tetsuya the Azure Blade on 06, February, 2012, 12:40:56 PM
This is my idea for GS4 party, that it is.
1. Matthew.
2. Tyrell.
3. Ahri (Contigo baby).
4. Megan (that little girl in Imil).
5. Takeru (hopefully he'd be better than his sister).
6. Akafubu's kid.
7. A rogue Tuaparang.
8. Vande (that beastman musician in GS3 (the named one)).
I don't want Matt and the others to return, for various reasons. The main one being that they'll have a level reset. "But Role, they could use transfer da--"TUA WARRIORS. Your whole party is level 99. There is no way we're having transfer data with that.
Here's my hope:
Takeru
New Proxian Guy
Felix and Sheba's Daughter
Nowell
The game starts with Felix, Piers, Felix's Daughter, and Nowell on Piers' ship. They're heading home, and the tutorial fights are on the ship. Felix's Daughter is the Squire of the bunch, Nowell is a badass Mercury Black Mage. Neither class has been seen before. You get there, meet Sheba find out about the events of DD, and find your own crisis you have to deal with. There's multiple directions you have to go, so Piers and Felix head one way, and they send you the other way. Sheba joins you during this time. When you get to the new area, crap hits the fan and you wind up having to do a bit of fighting. Sheba gets separated, but it turns out for the better, since you can split up and help more people. Before you get out, though, you face a boss, now without Sheba's back up. But not to fear, Takeru's coming to save the day! Together, with your new Warrior in tow, you kick @#$, take names, and move along your merry way. Not too much later, you meet a group of proxians. Stuff happens, and one of them joins you - a healer. You then proceed to play the rest of the game. Which is greater than half of it left - after all, you only have 2-3 djinn per person at this point!
Well yeah, but if they were to have a level reset, then I have a feeling that it would have something to do with that giant vortex that can be seen near the end of the credits. It could technically make sense, and it would make more sense than a data transfer at this point.
I'd prefer new characters to starting the game again with the same ones. And if there's no Karis, there's no base class multi healing, which would definitely be a good thing.
If they do pair up Felix and Sheba, would the home town be Prox or Lalivero? It'd be nice to have a legitimate reason to visit one of the lighthouses either way- Felix gets a letter from Isaac and goes to check the nearby lighthouse, cue tutorial. Don't ask me why, but I think Takeru will end up on Piers' ship with Nowell, but join either earlier or later for some reason.
Anyone think king Wo will make a reappearance by the way? And a save Isaac quest could be a good reason for meeting the Tuaprang.
I figured this would take place in the western ocean. They'd have some place in Hesperia, and you'd travel to prox over the course of the game. The game would focus on the events of Hesperia and Prox, though. No Atteka yet... I think we should have a game for each region, to help expand the geography. It'd be nice if it was a series of events, and the final game in this arc is what leads up to the Mourning Moon and the showdown with the Tuaparang leaders. It could use a character or two from each game, leveled down to fit the needs of the game. Matt would return for this one and lead them.
Until then, I don't wanna see Matt again. Let's get some new characters here.
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I don't think a data transfer is even possible. Think about TBS and TLA... When you finished TBS, it ended rather abruptly, and you were left with Clear Data. Dark Dawn doesn't do that. Secondly, I doubt any of the characters from Dark Dawn will actually make a reappearance. If they did, I'd be sorely disappointed. While I do believe that Nowell has a chance of showing up, I don't know. Dark Dawn was a fanservice game, and they will likely be paying attention to the fans yet again on what to do for the next game. I also don't see Takeru joining from the start, and this is why: When Takeru left home, he was already a warrior. By the time he managed to make it into a game, he would likely be too strong for a starting-level character.
Whoever Felix's kid is, they're definitely going to be in the game. However, I doubt Felix's kid is going to be a Jupiter Adept. More than likely, Felix's son will be to Felix what Matthew is to Isaac. Which is unfortunate, but nevertheless...
Also, about the thing about the Mourning Moon arriving... I'm pretty sure that already happened in Dark Dawn. I think number 4 will focus on stopping it.
Also, I'm seeing Light Adepts making a debut, somehow. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in the party. The likelihood of a Proxian character is also low, I think.
I see them repeating what Dark Dawn did... Felix's kid, Matthew's kid sister, Sheba's kid, and Piers' kid, possibly replaced by Nowell instead of him actually having a kid. As for the second party... I can see Takeru joining then, maybe even last. The Mars adept is probably going to come out of nowhere and surprise us all. As for the second party Jupiter Adept, I see it being Feizhi's kid. Hama's kid is a possibility, I suppose, but Feizhi gets less love and will probably be the dark horse in this case. The second Mercury adept will either be a Lemurian or a relative of Mia's.
As for the thing about being on the other side of Angara, ship-wise, I doubt it, because the likelihood of Takeru being on the other side is low. However, the ability to cross to the other side of Angara will probably be added. Also, I see Sunny reappearing to do the forging instead of Briggs' grandmother. Either Sunny or his kid, anyways.
I also see Sol Sanctum being the final dungeon somehow. Either Sol Sanctum or Luna Sanctum... There will probably be more alchemy machines left behind by the Jenei which will be necessary to enter Luna Sanctum... Can you tell I thought about all of this a lot after I finished Dark Dawn? Lol.
Felix and Sheba were "strongly hinted at", along with Isaac and Jenna. Odds are they'll be a victorious ship as well, thus why I said a Jovian Squire - mommy's element with daddy's build.
I am very much against light and dark adepts, personally.
If they repeat what they did in Dark Dawn, I'm done with the series. The sales figures alone should tell them we didn't like that approach.
I understand why you said it, Role, and I'm not discounting it. For all I know, we'll have another brother/sister mix. But I seriously doubt there will be a Jovian Squire.
Well, if Takeru is in the next game, and Camelot listens when they hear "Stick to four characters this time", that leads up to a Jovian child. Of course, for all we know, Takeru is the next MC...
Or heck, we could end up with a 16 member party too, if all goes well. I mean, with all that has happened so far, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens with the series...
But yeah, if all goes really well, then this Takeru ghost will be nothing more than an NPC - it might be best that way, considering their plan would likely involve having relatives of the original eight again.
Quote from: Salanewt on 08, February, 2012, 04:54:34 PM
Or heck, we could end up with a 16 member party too, if all goes well. I mean, with all that has happened so far, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens with the series...
But yeah, if all goes really well, then this Takeru ghost will be nothing more than an NPC - it might be best that way, considering their plan would likely involve having relatives of the original eight again.
@ NPC Takeru: Don't say that, Salsa! I'm hoping for a playable Takeru, that I am! I'd love for someone with a samurai base class to be a PC in a Goldensun game, that I would.
@16 person party: I was thinking that too, that I was!
I say we stick with twelve characters max, but if you did that it'd have to be a hundred hours long with a LOT less repetitiveness to get the characterization in there. Tales of Symphonia managed to pull off a large number of playable characters, but ONLY because it was very long and had voice acting, mid-battle chatter, and forty hours worth of sidequests.
After DD, I don't think that having that large a cast is a good thing in Camelot's hands, not yet at least. Maybe later, but at the moment...
Would you really want 4 people in each team who does... exactly the same thing? Until we get completely unique classes between teams, and crazy long stories to allow for characterization, I'm gonna pass on the whole 12-16 characters. 4 is Ideal to me, 8 is pushing it unless the latter four are already developed.
Er, the 16 character thing was actually more of a jab than anything else - obviously, in a game that only needs 4-8 characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to have 16.
But still, I'm hoping for the best. I've already blocked out most memories of Dark Dawn, I don't want to have to do that again. :happy:
Oh, okay, you scared me for a second there.
Of course, the sad thing... it took Dark Dawn to get me to change my mind... beforehand, I'd have been fine with 12... but afterwards, I cut down to 4, even changing how one of my hack ideas was going to be done in accordance with my new views.
I don't know why everyone seems to hate Dark Dawn so much. Okay, sure, they could've done a little better on the personalities and background stories for some of the characters. But they did a bunch of wonderful new twists... Every djinn looks unique, I'd say that's a step up. New utility psynergies... Mind Read and Reveal being redistributed was a bit weird... And they didn't really need Insight... But if you relax, stop worrying about the shortcomings it has, the game is fun, and that's what matters... Or am I weird for not caring?
Quote from: Kioll on 09, February, 2012, 11:50:27 AM
Or am I weird for not caring?
No, that you are not. Everyone else is weird for only accentuating the negative, that they are.
Sure, the plot was a piss pie (please do not ask me what a piss pie is, I just made it up, that I did.), and the bosses fought like retarded Chocobos, that they did. But it had cool music, weapon mastery, Crystalux, some new classes, and @#$%& slapping a bird god, that it did.
Even then, some of the pros that you listed help contribute to the cons.
New utilities - Some of them are just combined versions of those that we already had, and others are replacements. I guess Slap and Grip were okay, and Crush was a cool way of combining Burst and Pound. However, I didn't find most of them to be very memorable for some reason.
New summon - Is this the only one that we can have? I mean, a new summon would nice, but it was just a crappy chandelier from a television commercial.
Classes - I guess so, but weren't these ones exclusive to the new characters? The ones that I mostly kept in the back until they reached level 99, haha...
Djinn - Agreed, actually. That one was a nice little addition. They could have done a bit better with some of the designs, but that is just an opinionated statement.
Music - I might be the odd one in this case, but I thought that about 96% of the new audio was terrible. Keeping in mind, of course, that it takes a lot for me to actually like game audio to begin with. I tried, I turned the volume up sometimes... But no. It isn't enough for me, sadly.
Weapon mastery - Wow, I totally forgot about that! To be honest, I never even noticed it during the two times that I played the game. I mean, I vaguely understood that weapons got better the more you used them, but its not like the monsters were harder before the weapons were maxed out.
All in all, the game was actually kind of fun. There were plenty of new additions that were unique in a way. However, the bad things would be able to crush the good things to death because of how major they were in the game.
... And we are pretty far off the topic, oops. However, with all of the bad or poorly implemented things in this game in mind, my point still stands that it wouldn't be surprising if they were to have 16 characters or more join your party, but have roughly six of them of them join shortly before you fight the final boss. They might even have a usable Kraden. I hope I'm wrong though, because I still actually like the series despite all of the flaws of the third game. I am just trying to say that it might be best to keep our hopes down for GS4's roster.
QuoteNew summon - Is this the only one that we can have? I mean, a new summon would nice, but it was just a crappy chandelier from a television commercial.
No, he's a crappy dragon made from an even crappier chandelier, that he is!
QuoteThey might even have a usable Kraden.
Or, Kraden might actually be the man behind it all, and not Alex, that he may. I'd love to see a plot twist like that, where someone two generations of heroes have trusted thoughout three games turns out to be the real Big Bad, that I would.
And Alex is just a really manipulative Guile Hero, that he is.
QuoteKeeping in mind, of course, that it takes a lot for me to actually like game audio to begin with.
Aww, that's a shame, that it is. You not liking game music.
You guys may not have had to deal with it, but for us, we spent seven years wanting a new Golden Sun game. When it was announced, we were excited as freaking hell. When it came out... it couldn't hold a candle to the originals, and not out of nostalgia either (a large portion of us played the first two games right before we played DD). While DD did somethings right, it did a lot of them wrong.
Abilities remained broken, some got even worse. Some djinn were just... Chain? REALLY?
Classes didn't really get expanded at all. We've played those classes for 7 years! We really wanted new ones to play with... we got like, five. And a remix of a couple others.
Music... it just plain wasn't as good as the originals. The originals were mostly good, but in DD, it was hit and miss. Just didn't have the same quality, you know?
And then there's the big problem - they made this a fanservice game, rather than taking the direction they needed. Instead of expanding and refining the mechanics, they threw in a bunch of things to "appease" the fans... And it became a jumbled mess because of it. Hell, Eoleo fans have a right to be pissed - they get teased, then he joins at the end of the game... and is basically Tyrell with less equipment options. Himi... that was just a slap in the face!
And did you remember the particle and sound effects? No? Exactly. Part of what made TLA so great was the sheer impact you felt in battle! That was like... totally gone. While attacks were never actually weaker than in previous games, they sure felt weaker.
The thing is, while yes they tried to do a good job, they shouldn't have tried to "appeal to fans" so much as worked on making a good game. They dropped the ball, and people called them on it.
The biggest crime in many fans eyes, though, was introducing Light and Darkness as a thing. For seven years, they had been symbolic... and now suddenly they're a thing.... All the claims of "there's only four elements", of "light and dark psynergy doesn't exist, they fall under the thematics of other elements", etc just went moot. Some attacks and djinn now really don't make any sense being elemental since we have Light and Dark - they scream that they should be fundamental instead! It pretty much made a big mess over what had been established canon for years.
Now, some things they did right. Multiple unleashes per weapon, for example, helped to nerf the 99% unleash strategy. I liked how you didn't just get four people to fill out your eight, but rather it happened gradually (still, that could have been handled far better than it was). They also tried to be more efficient with psynergy - while the effort was good, the execution left much to be wanted, though.
QuoteHimi... that was just a slap in the face!
Or, a kick between the knees, that it felt to me.
QuoteClasses didn't really get expanded at all. We've played those classes for 7 years! We really wanted new ones to play with... we got like, five. And a remix of a couple others.
Yeah, that was kind of dumb, that it was.
QuotePart of what made TLA so great was the sheer impact you felt in battle!
Sheer Impact? Is that the tier 3 version of Impact? LOL JK. I saw an opporunity for a pun, and I took it, that I did.
No, that's the alt-tier2 version, where it boosts one character by 50%, instead of all characters by 12.5%. Branching spell paths for the win! :awesomesmiley:
Agreed on Psynergy effects. The little distort in the air before Starburst looked great, but the explosion(s) looked really bad. I loved the unleashes and other physical strikes, though. Most of them, anyway. Except for Thunderhead, Hurricane, Carpet Bomb, Odyssey, Undead Might, and Reigning Dragon.
Light Surge used to be one of my favorite unleashes... Now not only does it not make sense as a Jupiter attack anymore (now that Sol is a thing. >_>), but it's just soooooooo lame...
Also, what they did to the Plasma line was unforgivable. D:<
I think the plasma line still coulda looked cool if they put the flinch effects in the right place.
Though they did make Thor look even more badarse, that they did.
But, if they screw the pooch with Goldensun 4 like they did with Goldensun 3, then I'll quit being a Goldensun fan, that I will.
That's how I stopped being a Sonic fan, that it was. Well, that and the other fans.
It was the lack of impact for me. Now, imagine this re-work of the new plasma...
It has the pulsing ball thing that Plasma does in DD... but that ball condenses, then unleashes bolts in the area, having an almost rapid-fire impact sound as it explodes into electrical energy. Still has the same basis, but is more than just a pulsating... thing.
@Tetsuya: Agree, Thor looked badass. Most of the summons seemed to get upgrades, honestly.
Judgment would've been better with a 3-D world model below, rather than a 2-D cloud wall. Or if the explosion actually occurred below the cloud wall, so that the explosion looked more realistic, that would've worked too. And MEGIDDO NEEDED A UNIQUE ANIMATION WITH LESS FAKING.
And yeah, Plasma needed to actually explode outward, with a flinch from both the lightning impact and the lightning explosion.
QuoteIt has the pulsing ball thing that Plasma does in DD... but that ball condenses, then unleashes bolts in the area, having an almost rapid-fire impact sound as it explodes into electrical energy. Still has the same basis, but is more than just a pulsating... thing.
So, it'll be more like an Electropulse spell line, then?
So, something like this? Electropulse > Electrowave > Electroblast?
No. That's a version of DD's plasma line that actually has impact to it. Did you even read my post?
Evidently, he did not. Way to derail the conversation, Tetsuya.
One more problem of mine: what happened to Sentinel? He was definitely harder than that demon I think.
Anyway, in regards to the first Mars adept: couldn't it be a child of Felix? Have the fire skip a generation from his mother to his son/daughter. Though then they'd probably end up a Jenna clone.
What, the Ancient Devil, or the bunch of boring ogres? The AD was awesome, so I'm gonna disagree with you there, but I'd have loved Sentinel over those stupid ogre guys.
Quote from: Role on 10, February, 2012, 02:16:44 PM
What, the Ancient Devil, or the bunch of boring ogres? The AD was awesome, so I'm gonna disagree with you there, but I'd have loved Sentinel over those stupid ogre guys.
Yes, AD was awesome, that he was.
They should've kept Varukar, Valgar, Velcro or what ever his name was, aswell. That they should.
I don't know which of the two was worse, in the sense of being easy: Valukar or Team Ogre.
And I never really fought the other 'superbosses', because I quit playing after not being able to get the forging equips I wanted. I mean, if you people didn't like the forging method in TLA, I wonder what you people think about DD's. Because having to climb up and down that place... made me miss those times I used to breed for IVs. And it seemed like the odds of forging those zol boots was... 1 in 256, maybe?
Zol boots? I was half convinced they'd removed Excalibur it took me so many tries to get it.
Valukar wasn't supposed to be easy - he was specifically designed to rip the living daylights out of summon rushers. You try and summon rush the guy, and suddenly you're summon rushed.
Sure, his setup was a bit flawed and exploitable, but the premise was pretty nice. Most of the bonus bosses were supposed to attack specific strategies. Valukar killed summon rushers, and was supposed to be able to take down those who did djinn x4 → Summon... but was exploitable so it didn't quite work out right. Sentinel took down people who relied heavily on attack psynergy. Just one problem - psynergy is weak, so nobody used it anyways. Star Magician was designed to take down those who used unleash setups - it was the most popular setup, so he hurt like hell against most people (I always used an attack psynergy strategy against him instead - I wrecked his @#$%! >:D).
Dully was designed to attack those who weren't able to recognize patterns. He ruined EVERYONE... because the game didn't have much of any need for pattern recognition until then.
Zol boots were easy to get, you just probably had bad luck.
I got excalibur repeatedly when trying to get the Herculean Axe. Yes, I know the Herculean Axe has inferior unleashes. Screw that. It has a higher attack and Olympus Rage is kickass.
Also, what else are you gonna give Eoleo, amirite?
Thanks to the fact that he can't wield bows for some odd reason and the fact that there are no good endgame bows anyway, that's pretty much it.
Oh yeah, and Tyrell's jump attack animation looks stupid. Matthew's and Eoleo's are cool, though. Also, why do they not have a jump-shot animation for bows? They need one for Karis's Thunder Mine.
...That's because the people who use bows are Mages, and mages don't traditionally use EPAs, since those are fighter techniques. Again, more evidence that the overlap is probably a "good bad bug" or something like that.
Amiti has a fighter base class, and he uses bows. So there.
No he doesn't. He has Piers' class, but is very clearly a mage due to his build and alt-classes. The most he can get is 140% attack power. Eoleo laughs at his puny multipliers.
Just like everyone laughed at Piers, you mean? Also, I'm pretty sure his base stats are those of a fighter, rather than a mage.
That's because he's got a clone of Piers' class, Jamie. Also, his best stats are obtained by mage classes - the top symbiotic mage class has 140 attack, just like his base. He's not a fighter. Jenna was more of a fighter than him.
I said base stats, not the multipliers of his base class, Role.
Do you actually have stat targets for the guy yet? I'm fairly certain they're gonna be more mage like, fitting of his build rather than his base class.
One thing I noticed was that his PP was generally inferior to that of other mages, as was his Agility.
Unless you have hard data, the claim of "The RNG goddess hates your guts" can easily sum up why it's like that in your game.
Apparently I missed a lot of conversation, but I'll probably bow out of this topic after this...
Role, I remember the wait for Dark Dawn very well. I remember how I first found out about the Golden Sun series... And I played them again and again everytime I got ahold of them. And I would be doing the same with Dark Dawn if I had a DS right now... I understand that a lot of it wasn't the best, but it wasn't so horrible that it isn't fun.
As for the topic at hand, whoever they decide to put in the next game, I hope we get more new weapon types.
we might. one i'm sure they might put in, is that little baby in... um that one town near the Jupiter lighthouse that could use psynergy at like... a few weeks old. yeah, if your going to have a powerful Jupiter adapt go with the super kid.
the best we can hope for is Felix having a daughter that's Venus.
for mercury, i think we already met one in DD, Mia had two kids, both mercury. one was in dark dawn as a main, the other still could be.
as for characters...
I think the plot line will be at the same time as DD or it will start just after DD started, you will collect 4 or 5 members and then you will meet up with the first party, most likely just after DD ended. so you can expect Matthew, Karis, and Tirel... (spelling?) being in the second party. Amati could be their 4th but... meh.
now as for mars... thinking back I'm not to sure, could be some one new from two parents unrelated to the first games. but I'm betting on Feilx having two kids, one Venus, one Mars.
I'd say that Felix's kids being Jupiter and Mars would be a nice twist, providing Sheba's the mother. Then Takeru and Nowell make a full party and we'll see what happens with the others.
Quote from: Kioll on 13, February, 2012, 11:21:54 AM
Role, I remember the wait for Dark Dawn very well. I remember how I first found out about the Golden Sun series... And I played them again and again everytime I got ahold of them. And I would be doing the same with Dark Dawn if I had a DS right now... I understand that a lot of it wasn't the best, but it wasn't so horrible that it isn't fun.
Dark Dawn...
I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it. It was a lot of fun to play through. If you can just ignore how stupid the plot is, the game's world is very well designed. At the same time though, I cried a little inside because of how forgettable the game was, but most of all because it completely missed the point of being a sequel to the Lost Age. It would've been good if it was a stand-alone game, but then I'd probably never bothered to get it.
In the same manner, I cried a little inside when I realized the geeky boy would serve as that party's healer instead of the cute girl. We
better get Nowell in the party in the sequel. Good thing healing was completely unnecessary in DD so I could just stow away Rief in the back.
Rief isn't even an INTELLIGENT geek! If he was, I might forgive him for his squeaky voice. Oh, and Nowell bothers me just as much as Rief does because quite frankly, she's a jerk.
No more of a jerk than Karis was at times, in fairness.
Still i think what i said is very likely.
Quotewe might. one i'm sure they might put in, is that little baby in... um that one town near the Jupiter lighthouse that could use psynergy at like... a few weeks old. yeah, if your going to have a powerful Jupiter adapt go with the super kid.
Quotethe best we can hope for is Felix having a daughter that's Venus.
Quotefor mercury, i think we already met one in DD, Mia had two kids, both mercury. one was in dark dawn as a main, the other still could be.
most people don't remember the little Jupiter adapt from the lost age.
feilx is sure to have a kid involved in this.
and Mia did have two kids, only one was a main so far.
I'm just saying that these 3 I'm 99% sure they will be in the next game. they would be perfect. where the last adapt comes from, no one knows.
But I'd almost bet money on the above three making it in.
EDIT: if I actually had any money... >_>
@Kioll: I never said it wasn't fun. I said it was a huge letdown. Hell, it's almost one of those beat-it-and-forget-it kind of games - there's nowhere near the replay value compared to the first two games. It just doesn't compare. I never said it was a bad game, though.
@Zman: It's kind of hard imagining the mercury adept of the next game as not being Nowell after DD. I'm with agreement with you here. I will ask you to stop misspelling Adept, though. You've been corrected on that so many times it's not even funny. At least try, dood.
@Jamie: You're complaining that an apprentice isn't an expert magician here. Of course he's not. The fact that he was still learning I thought was a good thing for Rief - I just wish that he didn't just fade into the background after you reached the next town.
I thought Jamie was complaining that Rief didn't have the decency to know stuff after listening to Kraden talking for however long they were travelling together. How smart do you really need to be to see a broken circuit and fire... fire... into the flame shaped carving?
I think the problem was they had two 'smart people' dueling for that position. Karis is the smart chick, and tends to do most of the stuff. Rief is supposed to be the apprentice to Kraden, but never actually gets the chance to show it off. This is the fault of the game devs, not the characters themselves. Too many characters, not enough characterization. To make matters worse, few characters do more than just "fade into the background" soon after you get them. The only reason Amiti didn't was because he was so god damned annoying.
The only time I really got the annoying vibe from Amiti was at the end where he decided to just say my name instead of giving me support or help. And then I remembered all those other times where basically the same thing happened, but I was too caught up in mashing A to notice. Still, at least he didn't force me to do any tutorials.
My problem is: Rief has been hanging around a famed alchemist for the past several years. And he still comes up with c*** like "That sounds like something from a fairy tale!" in regards to Verity and *CENSORED*.
And the reason I liked Karis so much is because she pulls some VERY fancy-looking trigonometry in a matter of seconds when hunting for the Umbra Gear. Unfortunately, I don't know my trig very well yet, and I was too lazy to follow. Otherwise, we'd know if Karis was just BSing her way through, or if she was doing it properly.
Heck, by the end of the game even MATTHEW faded into the background! And he's the main character! A mostly silent protagonist, sure, but he does display emotion during the early stages.
Actually, if you don't just tap A rapidly at the very end of the game, you'll notice that some characters give some cool lines, such as Himi and Eoleo's "This is going to hurt..." "Everyone involved." And of course Matthew's swearing is pretty much unforgettable.
The 'This is going to hurt' line crops up with the Mountain Roc as well, doesn't it? I read all the dialogue on my first playthrough, but on the second it was just what came after the emoticon options and then it just got annoying. Holding B should have stayed an option. Isn't it cartography by the way? Trigonometry is mathematics.
@Durza: Mention Pirates and Trees around Amiti. I dare you. Watch him instantly become the most annoying prick in all of Weyard.
@Jamie: These are all issues in characterization, something DD suffered from horribly. You make a point with Matt too - this is why we shouldn't have silent protagonists.
Quote from: MiseryWe better get Nowell in the party in the sequel.
Pretty much this. Although, she and Takeru are the only ones I'll say are definetily going to be in GS4. Concerning other PCs, absolutely no idea. Don't know about Felix' kid(s), some Proxian guy, some recurring non-PC from previous games. It could be anything, really. I'm just not trying to get my expectations too high.
Quote from: DurzaIsn't it cartography by the way? Trigonometry is mathematics.
I think I should be able to answer you that... if I actually were able to have any recollection of that event. Ugh. ._.
Yeah, I used the wrong word there. I meant triangulation. /fail
You know, I don't really feel that Isaac and Felix were silent protagonist's. sure you really never heard/read thing's they've said, but apart from the yes and no, In GS1 Garet asks Isaac if he knows what that floating eye is. if you say yes Garet reply's "I know its a rock stupid!", as if Isaac said "Yes, its a rock".
And at the end of GS1 when they are all talking to Isaac, there is some conversation going on there.
As for Felix he was a bit more quiet, and after what he pulled on top of the Venus lighthouse I found it odd.
Now in dark dawn they straight out said Matthew was shy and didn't talk a lot. he was made a silent protagonist from the start, and if he's in the next game, he might still be some what silent.
Quote from: Role on 13, February, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
@Durza: Mention Pirates and Trees around Amiti. I dare you. Watch him instantly become the most annoying prick in all of Weyard.
Ah, yes. I forgot about that. The tree thing I forgave him for, considering they were giant talking trees and all, but yeah. The pirates... Then again, at least there was a tiny bit of drama in the party there, no matter how annoying it was. Pity that they never said anything more about it. On the other hand, it was a bit strange that Tyrell of all people called him out on basically saying 'I don't want to help the people that terrorise and pillage us' after getting regularly insulted by Karis.
This is mine.
1. Felix & Sheba's Jupiter Adept son.
(IDK if they got together, but no one's heard anything about them since about when GS2 ended, so who knows)
2. His Venus Adept sister.
3. Garet's little brother. (He'd be kinda fun to play as. But, what was his name again, anyway?)
4. Nowell.
If it's an 8 man party, this is what I think the 2nd party would be.
5. Takeru. (You can roast his sister on a spit for all I care. She's just...... Blah. Besides, the name Takeru just sounds awesome to me.)
6. A Fire Adept Martial Artist.
7. A Jupiter Adept that uses Crossbows as his main weapon.
8. I don't really know who this slot'd go to, but probably a Viking or someone like that.
Garet's little brother was named Aaron, as I recall. And yeah, he might be kinda fun to play as. He was a really fun character, too. Or maybe some people were just annoyed by him, IDK. Kay was certainly annoying though.
And I expect that Matthew, Karis, and Tyrell will be in your second party, though.
It would make sense for them to join you too, if looking at the cliffhanger ending and everything. If we do have those three, then I would expect one of Mia's kids to return as well. If they choose Norne, then Frost might make a comeback too.
I wouldn't want either Aaron or Kay to be playable, but it'd be nice if they showed up. I would prefer PCs from completely unknow lands, so no Felix's son/daughter/both, no Matthew, no Karis and no Tyrell. That way we'd possibly have new abilities, classes and stuff. But I really don't expect it to happen.
QuoteBesides, the name Takeru just sounds awesome to me.
When I first saw it, "Takeru" reminded me of a thieving bird for some reason. Maybe if I knew more japanese names that wouldn't have happened...
What about those kids that studied under Mia in GS1? I'm sure thatg they'd play some part in the story. Maybe you'd find Sheba and would have to track Felix down by going to most of the GS2 towns (Garoh, Mikasalla, Madra, etc) and get clues from people like Moapa and that guy's son that you helped (remember the starving kid in alhafra.)
Maybe we could get some temp party members like how Issac and Garet were in dark dawn. If there is a battle option, you could literally choose your ultimate team in thw battle lobby.
Here's a thought: What if they're planning a GS5 in the same storyline?
They jammed a whole lot of content into quite a small area in DD, and also tried to introduce as many new characters as possible. Why wouldn't they do the same again with GS4 - have some party members we already know, and fill up the other slots with new characters - and then connect GS3 and GS4 with GS5?
They can't just scrap the characters from DD but at the same time we're already expecting enough GS4 characters that there isn't much room for all-new characters. And it has been pointed out that 16 characters is a bit ridiculous.
Alternatively, they could be planning a completely new party system; rather than constantly having 8/16/etc. characters in the party, you might just have 4/8 characters constantly in the party with the other potential party members wandering off to a 'home' place which you would have to go to in order to swap them back in.
You know, for some reason I kind of hope that there's only four characters in this game - there is no second party. And not even 4, and then having four DD characters join, but just four period, like in TBS.
I kind of agree with that, they're far more likely to pull off an interesting game with four characters. If they can make 8 unique characters, or at least make some changes to the class system so everyone has their own purpose, I'm all for that. But judging from the past games, I don't think they will.
Well, I dunno, it's not quite the same as the usual criticism of dark dawn from me. Basically, I kinda wanna have a small group.
I'm not really try to bash Dark Dawn here, I'm saying what I'm saying because I think the Lost Age pulled it off pretty well. You get the last 4 characters at once, when the normal story is nearing its end, and it's when you start messing around with classes and equipment setups that it's interesting to have a lot of characters. It also had the item classes to open up even more class options.
But yes, being able to focus on a small group of characters is pretty nice.
In order to adequately pull off an 8-character party, you'd need 50 to 100 hours of gameplay, with at least 15 hours of cutscenes, would be my expectation. Mid-battle chatter and good-quality voice acting would also be practically a necessity.
ER, I'm trying to say that it's not from a gameplay standpoint I'm talking here, I didn't mean to imply that you were bashing Dark Dawn, just trying to say that I'm not. I don't know why, but I just have the urge to play a game with a small party for some reason.
Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 25, June, 2012, 10:19:56 PM
Mid-battle chatter and good-quality voice acting would also be practically a necessity.
Not in Golden Sun.
Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 25, June, 2012, 10:19:56 PM
In order to adequately pull off an 8-character party, you'd need 50 to 100 hours of gameplay, with at least 15 hours of cutscenes, would be my expectation. Mid-battle chatter and good-quality voice acting would also be practically a necessity.
I don't know, Jamie, it sounds like it'd be too much like Tales then.
Exactly, because to date the Tales series is the only one I know that has managed to give good characterisation to every member of an 8-character party. And I know you're just saying that to turn what I said earlier on my head.
The point is, you're going to need either lots of cutscenes or some other venue for dialogue (like, for example, mid-battle chatter) if you want all eight characters to get their screen time.
That said, mid-battle chatter of the magnitude done in the Tales series wouldn't work for Golden Sun, as it would get in the way of the battle interface and be really intrusive. Using it for plot-important battles, or when certain specific (usually plot-related) conditions are met, would work just fine.
...Final Fantasy games tend to get along just fine without skits or battle comments. There's more to characterization than just that, after all.
...Not sure if you watch this yet, but there's a show on Penny Arcade called Extra Credits. Check it out, it's got a ton of good advice for aspiring game developers. I also found out that I apparently don't want to be a developer. All the things I thought a developer does? Apparently, that's what a Game Producer does. Go figure.
You know, after thinking about how GS3 ended I'm betting GS4 is going to start off with Felix's kids and friends, they will journey and team up with the three main characters from GS3 and maybe one other. I'm sure its going to be 8 characters. And I'm sure one of them will be that wind adapt baby.
QuoteAnd I'm sure one of them will be that wind adept baby.
You mean Ahri?
Wait wait, did they give it a name in GS2? I didn't remember that. If so them most likely, but I'd go as far to say they use another name or give him a nickname, at least in the english version cause how do you even say Ahri...
Pronunciation: ah-ri. Seriously, it's not hard. Possibly pronounce the "r" like how the French or Japanese do.
well I'm not french or japanese nor is my spelling good enough for me to figure it out when i totally don't like the name.
I always figured it was Ah as in 'Ah, right', and ri pronounced like spree without the 'sp'. But it's seriously not any worse than some of the names. Even now I'm not sure how to pronounce Eoleo. But yeah, if you mind read
Also, if they have a proxian party member in GS4, d'you think they'll have a dragonform psynergy? I mean, it'd be awesome and all, but everyone in the first two games that turned into a dragon died pretty soon after unless they were refuelled by a lighthouse, so it wouldn't make all that much sense.
yeah that's right, everyone who turned into a dragon died or almost died. well subatomic-reconfiguration will to that to you even if it is sorta magic...
The only thing in the game powerful enough to do it successfully is the mars lighthouse and the Golden Sun. Guessing that Mars has the power of life or life's warmth which is why it healed them.
Though now that there is the golden sun maybe the transformation will work with out having the people die. Though the question is, will there be a golden sun in GS4?
the basically black hole that sucks in unlimited psynergy showed up at the location of the golden sun right? so golden sun has unlimited power, and the black hole thing sucks up an unlimited amount of power so what happens if they collide? or am I over thinking this too much?
Felix went away and going to Prox wouldn't be that strange would it? he sorta grew up there for 3 years. so Sheba might not be the only girl he could have ended up with.