Dark dawn has plenty of useless things.
That feather. I understand that was the whole point of the quest, but once you get it its useless.
Sveta's sniff psynergy. You actually use it once in the whole game.
Points of no return. This is just self explanitory. And why can't you get freeroam once you beat the game?
The return of star magician. Excuse me, GHOST of star magician. I killed him 30 years ago, why do I have to do it again? Why didn't any of the other bosses come back? I wold have been glad to fight sentinel or valukar again.
Feel free to add any useless thing in DD, I'm sure I missed some.
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Sveta's sniff psynergy. You actually use it once in the whole game.
Twice, actually. Once in the ruins where you first meet her, and the other is to get to the Apollo Sanctum.
Really... I don't remember the apollo.
It's at the end of the Apollo Path, before Apollo Sanctum Gate.
Wait, isn't the time at Apollo the only time you ever use it? I actually had to use Insight there because I forgot the spell even existed...
Well, I think it's the only time you have to use it. Technically you're "supposed" to use it when you get sveta the first time, but that time you could easily get through just with some small trial and error (no more than you would have to on any other level, anyway). There are probably some other times in the game where it does something useless, but it's not exactly a spell that I spammed constantly hoping to find something.
You know... I'll bet that puzzle at the very end of the game is the whole reason the insight psynergy even exists lol
Possibly. Still, I think that when we make our hacks we should try and keep this in mind - perhaps have a cutoff point. Ask yourself "How many times am I going to have them use this spell?" If it's below... say, 10, cut the spell from the game entirely, or simply make it a secondary trait of an already-existing spell.
Another thing... can't this be added to the "lessons we learned from dark dawn" thread?
QuoteAnother thing... can't this be added to the "lessons we learned from dark dawn" thread?
No it can't, because this is complaining, not learning.
And that thread is complaining disguised as lessons learned. Basically, it's "things you hated about dark dawn".
Well this is something useless I didn't really hate for a while. The amount of time it takes to use Psynergy compared to the old games. Mind Read: half a second and you're in their head. Spirit Sense takes far to long for what it does. Same with Search compared to Reveal.
The 3 second gap for the new version of Reveal was completely unnecessary, and it was disappointing how underimplemented it was in comparison to the previous 2 games.
There's also the fact that seeing the unseen and the powers of prophesy were specifically stated in previous games to fall under the realm of Jupiter. Having Venus, it's elemental opposite, able to do this flies in the face of established canon.
Spirit sense.. A mind read late in the game??? And no animals to use it on??? how stupid!
Quote from: Role on 10, September, 2011, 02:28:25 AM
There's also the fact that seeing the unseen and the powers of prophesy were specifically stated in previous games to fall under the realm of Jupiter. Having Venus, it's elemental opposite, able to do this flies in the face of established canon.
This is definitely one of the weirder things. As well as Karis not being able to read minds, despite almost every Jupiter Adept in other games seemingly being able to. (I know she said she didn't 'inherit' the power, but that seems like an excuse for not programming mind read data in the early game.)
And of course, Jupiter suddenly having the second most powerful healing psynergy.
Umm, I'm probably wrong, but didn't she say at some point she didn't WANT to learn the power?
As in she made no effort to learn it...
Actually, based on what we've seen of Jupiter healing, that would make Mars the second most powerful healing element (assuming its single-target is proportionately powerful to its multi-target), Jupiter third place, and Venus dead last.
And I've a theory about the Third Eye: It and the other two Eyes (First Eye, probably Mars, and Second Eye, otherwise known as the Insight Glass) were gifts from Jupiter Clan to the other three Clans, in exchange for some service. They each provide whichever one of Jupiter's sight-related powers matches best with the other element: Venus can see the unseen, Mercury can see solutions (a variation of the power of prophecy), and I'm not sure what Mars would do. This also meshes with Karis' absurd theory that their ancestors put the Insight Glass in the temple KNOWING that it would be found by Ayuthay. If her theory is correct, those who put the Insight Glass there had the power of prophecy, meaning they were Jupiter Adepts, or that they had friends who were Jupiter Adepts.
@Frog: Yes, that's what I'd say as well, but the use of the word "inherit" implies that she actually CANNOT learn it. Which is impossible in-canon, as the first GS already states that Mind Read is available to all Jupiter Adepts, as is Reveal and the power of prophecy.
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@Frog: Yes, that's what I'd say as well, but the use of the word "inherit" implies that she actually CANNOT learn it. Which is impossible in-canon, as the first GS already states that Mind Read is available to all Jupiter Adepts, as is Reveal and the power of prophecy.
So, if all wind users can read minds, see the unseen and predict the future, why can't Karis?
Well reveal had to be taught in both gba games, so that line about inheritting mind reading aside, she simply never learnt, or wanted to learn.
(Ivan's a lazy dad.)
She does talk quite a bit about the dark side of all those powers in the game, so it's not really a suprise she never decided to learn them.
I recall it being explained that the ability to read minds was like a double edged blade or something, so she opted not to learn it because of that.
But seriously, she must be an abnormal teenager if she thinks that it wouldn't be a cool ability. I mean, Mind Read is an awesome ability!
QuoteShe does talk quite a bit about the dark side of all those powers in the game, so it's not really a suprise she never decided to learn them.
Well, I suppose so... But still, she could exercise some self control and still learn it.
Apparently she doesn't want to be looked down on for having the ability.
Yeah she said her dad found it as a double-edged sword so he probably didn't want Karis to learn it
@Salanewt: However everyone saw what happened to Nyunpa, he could read minds without effort, and so could Sweta's dad... Both paid the price. Mind-Read is actually quite dangerous because it takes quite some skill to not succumb to such an ability. Nyunpa said that he was subdued by her( Ice queen's) will, and Sweta was terribly affected by the emotions when her spirit-sense auto-activated. So being around people with forceful wills and powerflu emotions could rend mind readers mad
Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 16, September, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
Actually, based on what we've seen of Jupiter healing, that would make Mars the second most powerful healing element (assuming its single-target is proportionately powerful to its multi-target), Jupiter third place, and Venus dead last.
And I've a theory about the Third Eye: It and the other two Eyes (First Eye, probably Mars, and Second Eye, otherwise known as the Insight Glass) were gifts from Jupiter Clan to the other three Clans, in exchange for some service. They each provide whichever one of Jupiter's sight-related powers matches best with the other element: Venus can see the unseen, Mercury can see solutions (a variation of the power of prophecy), and I'm not sure what Mars would do. This also meshes with Karis' absurd theory that their ancestors put the Insight Glass in the temple KNOWING that it would be found by Ayuthay. If her theory is correct, those who put the Insight Glass there had the power of prophecy, meaning they were Jupiter Adepts, or that they had friends who were Jupiter Adepts.
@Frog: Yes, that's what I'd say as well, but the use of the word "inherit" implies that she actually CANNOT learn it. Which is impossible in-canon, as the first GS already states that Mind Read is available to all Jupiter Adepts, as is Reveal and the power of prophecy.
That could work, but I read it as being the person's literal third eye, already having two. I still think it's related to the Cloud Brand though.
And while Reveal was taught to both the Jupiter adepts in TBS and TLA, Hama said it could be learned by adepts on their own, which would imply that Blaze, Sand and Parch could as well. Otherwise, Air's Rock was a bit of a waste, especially since they apparently turn into volcanoes once used.
Quote from: MegaDarkNero on 16, September, 2011, 12:28:11 PM
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@Frog: Yes, that's what I'd say as well, but the use of the word "inherit" implies that she actually CANNOT learn it. Which is impossible in-canon, as the first GS already states that Mind Read is available to all Jupiter Adepts, as is Reveal and the power of prophecy.
So, if all wind users can read minds, see the unseen and predict the future, why can't Karis?
Actually, it was already implied that not all were. In fact, even before DD, I said that as an adept, even though I'm a Jovian, I do not have innate Mind Read. I do have an innate reveal, but not mind read. This is something perfectly fine - but giving those powers to another element, when they're specifically said to be signatures of Jupiter.
It makes sense for not every adept of an element to share traits of that element - by the same logic you guys used, every single Venusian is a Squire, no questions asked. Clearly, that's not the case.
Correction: That's something YOU said, not something in-canon. Also, they specifically state that Mind Read is AVAILABLE to all Jupiter Adepts. They don't specifically HAVE to learn it, but it's an option. I suppose some people could have it naturally (like Ivan seems to have known it automatically), but there's never a Jupiter Adept that CAN'T learn it.
An option, but not something natural. Not something innate. That's what I just said. It falls under the realm of Jupiter - so any can learn it. However, it makes more sense if not everyone knows it innately. For some, it could be what they learn at Air's Rock. Maybe others are taught.
But doesn't Air's Rock say it teaches the power to Reveal the unseen or something like that? I suppose it could change depending on the adept. It always seemed like Jupiter adepts learned Mind Read naturally, like Venus adepts learned Move. Then again, Himi didn't inherit Move, despite both Susa and Kushinada being able to use the technique.
Do children of adepts develop psynergy regardless of whether they are exposed to psynergy stones in their youth?
Air's Rock only teaches reveal, as stated by Maha in Garoh.
Yes, children of Adepts will always have Psynergy.
They always have psynergy, but that psynergy manifests itself in different ways between adepts. For example: Jenna and Garet. Both are Mars adepts, but the psynergy that's natural to them (base class psynergy) is quite different.
But would either of them have been as powerful living in, say, Kalay, without having ever been exposed to a psynergy stone as Ivan likely was? Would Maha have been more powerful if he'd been closer to Air's Rock as Sheba thought, or did he inherit a power cap from his parents?
Please explain what you meant a bit better, I don't quite understand the question. After all, Ivan was born with the blood of the anemos in his veins, and in a town not only near the anemos sanctum, but not far from the Jupiter Lighthouse as well...
I don't remember any large psynergy stones in Lemuria, yet they seem to have one of the largest populations of adepts in the GS world.
Lemuria had Alchemy still unbound, according to Kraden, so they didn't need the stones to give them access to the power of Alchemy, and therefore psynergy.
@Role, I basically meant, would Ivan have been less powerful if he'd been born far away from the lighthouse, or would he be the same strength due to his lineage.
That... hasn't been explained well enough, unfortunately. I wouldn't be able to tell you.
Oh well. Here's something else useless: any mention of Mercury in the Konpa ruins. There's no water based room in there, despite the claim that it honours all four elements.
Easy answer is easy: It's in the path Rief and Nowell took.
I.e: a puddle which could have formed accidentally.
If I could find an AR code to jump up there, I could find out what treasure is up there (yest, there is a visible treasure chest near the edge) and where it leads.
Actually, there is a Mercury section in there... Sort of. The room seems to be blocked with too much rubble to be able to enter though.
As for the chest, it could be a decoration like the puddle. Good luck looking into it though.
I'm pretty sure you can get that chest by using Grip on a few pillars to the left of where you get the Jupiter djinni. There's a psy crystal in it I think.
One more weird thing about dark dawn is that the Luna tower, Apollo lens, alchemy forge and well are all said to be machines built during the "ancient time". How could that get unnoticed in the previous golden sun games or did they just suddenly pop out within the thirdthy years.
Umm yeah, that's exactly what happened.
The golden sun event shook and cracked the world open, shifting continents and revealing long lost buried structures.
Aye, that's specifically said in DD, Kuroshi. That's not a point of contention, that's actually something that kinda works for it. Another counter would be that many of these places, such as Ayuthay, did exist, but weren't important to the story in the GBA games, and thus weren't in it. I mean, hell - look at how much empty space was in TLA. Do you really think there's only a couple settlements across an entire continent?
Likely, only the ones important to the main quest and sidequests were in the game.
That's what bothers me about Golden Sun though - TLA and TBS felt so well 'fleshed-out' that, now they're having to introduce more stuff, they both feel far more empty. I don't know about you, but it feels really disappointing to find out that, even though you can explore the entire world, you can't truly see everything because "it's not related to the plot".
I've probably said this before but if so I would like to repeat; it feels as though the first 2 games were rushed out without any real thought of what came after.
In short, DD makes all 3 games feel shoddily made.
Umm, those two felt empty from the start, especially TLA. One of the larger complaints about TLA was how empty the world was.
Another thing is that weird is that, it is impossible for a race of beast men to develope in Morgal in such a short time when the only town of beast men was Garoh and its it's quite disappointing that we can't visit the old towns like Bilbin, Vault, Imil or Kalay. By the way, where on earth is Kalay!! Did it like got seep rated from Angara. And who is Garet's wife? :?:
The werewolves of Garoh aren't beastmen, though. They're actual werewolves, while the beastmen are constantly in animal form, with an even more animalistic form. Assumedly, the beastmen would've lived in Morgal forest or something.
Something odd tells me that Garet and his spouse broke up, and he gets custody because she doesn't want him? Either that, or he doesn't find women appealing enough; we may never know.
And yeah. Personally, I kind of hate the new furry empire Beastmen, as the way that they were introduced was kind of lazy; people grew fur. If they were a tribe of people seeking refuge in a forest, then that could have been cool enough, but...
There is also a flaw in the story. Once you defeat the Tuaparang soldiers, you could actually still go back to Isaac's place. They could have simply went there and get help from Isaac or Garet. (Although that would be like totally ignoring the fact that Rief's life was at stake) :sad:
Aye, notice the name Morgall. Remove an R. Mogall. There you go! You know their origins!
QuoteSomething odd tells me that Garet and his spouse broke up, and he gets custody because she doesn't want him? Either that, or he doesn't find women appealing enough; we may never know.
If Tyrell's and Karis' mums aren't in the fourth game, they're most likely dead. Same with Nowell's and Rief's dad. Cause we ALL know who their other parent is, but not what they look like now.
...Um, no? By that logic, only Isaac, Garet, and Kraden are alive, because they're the only ones who actually appear in the game.
Just because they're not seen doesn't mean they don't exist.
Quote from: MegaDarkNero on 08, November, 2011, 07:13:31 AM
QuoteSomething odd tells me that Garet and his spouse broke up, and he gets custody because she doesn't want him? Either that, or he doesn't find women appealing enough; we may never know.
If Tyrell's and Karis' mums aren't in the fourth game, they're most likely dead. Same with Nowell's and Rief's dad. Cause we ALL know who their other parent is, but not what they look like now.
Who would that be? Felix needs a clone for the next game so it can't be him. If it's Piers, then it makes him less of a dirty old man I guess. Karis' mother is probably someone from Contigo or Kalay. There's no rule saying that the new characters have to have two previously playable parents.
Quote from: Durza on 08, November, 2011, 11:22:12 AM
Quote from: MegaDarkNero on 08, November, 2011, 07:13:31 AM
QuoteSomething odd tells me that Garet and his spouse broke up, and he gets custody because she doesn't want him? Either that, or he doesn't find women appealing enough; we may never know.
If Tyrell's and Karis' mums aren't in the fourth game, they're most likely dead. Same with Nowell's and Rief's dad. Cause we ALL know who their other parent is, but not what they look like now.
Who would that be? Felix needs a clone for the next game so it can't be him. If it's Piers, then it makes him less of a dirty old man I guess. Karis' mother is probably someone from Contigo or Kalay. There's no rule saying that the new characters have to have two previously playable parents.
What I meant when I said that is, I was talking about how we don't know Karis', Terry's and Riefs other parent. Like who Karis'and Tyrell's mum is, and Riefs dad. When I said "Cause we ALL know who their other parent is, but not what they look like now" I was talking about the PCs from the previous games, the Warriors of Vale.
That's just it - we don't yet know who they are. That doesn't mean you should write them off for dead, though. To be honest, that wouldn't make too much sense for GS, at least not to me.