Well, as we can see, this site's purpose is... well, pretty much over. But nobody said that this has to be the end of the site - the purpose ends? Well, make a new one!
Now, here's the question - how should we change this? I know one site that was starting to die began to reimagine itself as an RP community... we could go that route. The ToK's general fansite option is an option, but I don't think we have the membership for that to succeed... Do you guys have any suggestions? Ideas? I've got a lot of memories of this place, and it'd be really sad to see it go... I'd rather us change focus rather than die off.
What I would like to see on this site is a whole entire guide on the data of the three games. Pretty much describing everything you could find in the data. Since this would be something pretty big, I would imagine it would look more formal if it was part of the main website.
For those who don't know, I've already been trying to understand the entire battle mechanics file of GS2 (http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=1632.msg36484#msg36484) I still have quite a way to go, though.
I have thought that Atrius's resign from the editor could eventually encourage others to be more willing to continue on with the editor. And having all this extra information might be a nice way to start. I generally feel that data research is easier than making the editor for them.
I'm also trying to imagine how the GS editor would look if each of the sub-editors icons were actually used for each of the code files instead. So basically, to get to the proper editor you're looking for, it may require choosing the correct icon, and then the specific editor you want from a list. There may be some exceptions like keeping the map editor for itself, though, but not sure. This was only a simple thought in trying to make the editor work in a similar order as to how the data displays it. However, I have not thought too much about it yet.
That's certainly not a bad idea, but looking at this site, I think that the Editor should become a side project. We're bleeding members and activity, and it's quite worrisome to be honest. As such, I think changing our focus, while still keeping that project active, would be a good idea for us to take.
Also, just to clarify... you're suggesting subdividing the editor into a bunch of different, specialized editors? Or did I get that wrong?
Everyone here on the site generally like the same things and think the same way (other then political issues)
We all like games and like the idea of editing them. And we tend to focus on entertainment type things in general.
since the site is already sorta about games why not have it focus games and hacking games, not just golden sun but others as well?
I know Salanewt works on those Mario and Luigi games another site and he's currently working on another game called "Sword of mana". (i know he left)
I know kain does live stream from time to time games he plays and he loves to talk about them almost as much as i like to talk about anime.
I know leaf experiments with music and game music from time to time
I know Charon does small animations and other art (i know she left)
and there are a bunch of others on the site that do some of the same things as well.
Why not switch the site's direction over too art and entertainment?
Then people can post any projects, be it a hack, a game, an animation or what ever and they can show off what they are working on, get help, and talk about new games and such. (and sure we do some of that stuff now, but the topics of those are all over the place and most are inactive or people left and took said project else where.)
This is what I generally meant.
(http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac208/charleysdrpepper/revampidea_zps9e84ce8a.png)
And the idea on allowing people add to the list if they create custom databases in the data themselves, etc. Hmm...
Ah, I see. I'd love to see some of the work you've done developing the editor to be released here, Tea.
We could go for an RP approach, the only issue is that GSAR and ToK already do just that (Although the latter is somewhat... Shall we say, "Questionable", when it comes to the subject of sanity?). I have actually been lurking on GSAR and have been considering joining, although this changes that a bit.
But, with Teawater's skills, all of this might not even be necessary in the first place.
I honestly don't believe the site's purpose is over. Big deal, Atrius isn't working on the Editor anymore. So what? The editor is still around. It's still usable. There are still hacks in progress and people out there who don't know how to hack yet who could use the Editor's help. Perhaps YOUR reason for being here is dying, but don't project that on the rest of us. I'd be rather upset to see this site shifting its focus away from what's going on already. I mean, after all, the entire reason I'm here is for the help of the closest thing on the net to experts on Golden Sun: the people who expertly hack it. Of course, until I get a couple more action sprites made of Jenna (i.e. pushing items, falling, etc.), I'm kinda stuck, but that's not the point. Sure, a bit of roleplay would be cool, but having it take over the site would feel awkward and I know I'd leave, since I'd feel too awkward to keep talking about my game. Then again, I doubt I'd join roleplaying on here anyways, because I tend not to RP on forums anyways, but still.
I can't say that the ToK really has an RP focus. That's one of the reasons I left there - they're more of a general fandom group with a very strange sense of humor and tons of in-jokes.
@Kioll: While this is true, what I'm really worried about is the fact that even long time regulars have been leaving the site altogether. He may not be working on the editor, but even before he stopped we were bleeding members. We need to expand our horizons. It's no fun having a ghost town of a community! There's many ways to do this, as pointed out. We can become an RP community, become a community that hacks more than just Golden Sun (Fire Emblem and Pokemon have editors for them, iirc, as does Mario World), and even become a more artistic site.
Don't just read my post and stop - Teawater and Zman made very good suggestions that would help the site become more active. It's not fair to them to ignore their suggestions like that.
Changing the sites direction: So it's not longer about hacking Golden Sun? Speak to Atrius about changing the name of the site then. Otherwise, I don't think you can make that call.
Changing it to RP: No offense but this is probably the dumbest suggestion I've heard. Changing the sites focus to RP isn't going to save it. You're going to ghost town it more than it already is.
QuoteI can't say that the ToK really has an RP focus. That's one of the reasons I left there
ONE of the reasons. I chuckled. But this isn't the time nor place.
Keeping the site about hacking Golden Sun but generalizing it with the editor being used as a tool, unless I'm mistaken, hasn't that always been the purpose?
I read their suggestions, Role. And I responded to them. Well, other than the hacking other things bit. Honestly, I wouldn't mind people hacking other things. But isn't that why we have a "general hacks" section? There would be no point in changing the community's focus. Adding new activities is the way to spice things up, not shifting the focus.
Yes, that has been the purpose. But look at how few of us are left. One by one, we'll be leaving until there's only a couple people left - we need to do something to bring in new blood. There's multiple ways of doing this - and the one I think has the best chance is to branch out.
Okay, I know I'm super new to this particular site, but I've been around some GS forums for a few years. I haven't been consistent, but I have noticed a general decline in activity (with the exception of the GS Tumblr community.) I guess a part of why this site is declining could be because this site has a specific interest that focuses on a specific game series. It's too niche, in in GS standards. But, please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions. I am aware that I am a new member.
I'm not sure if you guys would work as a Roleplaying community, at least right now. The last post in your Roleplaying section was in 2011, with the exception of the thread I created tonight. Even though I love roleplaying, I don't exactly feel like it's within your current interests as a group. Developing in that direction would be too big of a change, perhaps.
General community sites are good if you have consistent activity, lots of new content for people to get involved in, and a general sense of family or identity. I don't know you guys well enough to judge that, but I bet someone here could give a decent opinion.
A guide on the entire GS series sounds interesting, but what other places out there offer similar information, even if they're not altogether? Either way, compiling data for people who are into this sort of thing, like you guys, would be a great project to rally around. But, that takes a lot of time and people power. Do you have the current resources to keep this up as a group over a longer time than you anticipate? And, how do you expect this to attract new members? It seems that it would only bring in people who are looking for data, and not necessarily staying here for the people. You kinda need to build both and keep them growing together somehow.
Or, maybe I'm just rambling at 2am in the morning.
Um... wow...
You make a descent argument... hm...
I like your thoughts on this. Though keeping it a GS hacking site may be what we do I think we should rearrange the site a bit so its not just about hacking and has a fan section for game discussion. And we should be more open to other topics since it doesn't have to only focus on just golden sun 24/7 since there is only really so much you can talk about with 2 games and a sloppy 3rd.
So basically
expand on the Tech forum?
QuoteTech, Gaming and Entertainment
Discuss the latest in technology, gaming, or entertainment, or you could discuss older stuff too, it doesn't matter.
Well, this site is even called Golden Sun Hacking... personally, I think it should primarily be about hacking Golden Sun. And the people who are active here right now don't really come across to me as roleplaying people. Except maybe Role (duh).
The problem we're looking at if we want an active community based around that is, there are not enough people doing it. As of now, only Teawater is actually looking into the game's code. But I don't really see why this is a problem. Why does it have to be an active community? As far as I can see, that's not necessary to fulfill its intended purpose.
As for the editor, it has come a long way already. You can edit pretty much all existing values and all text, and the map code viewer is very powerful. What the editor really needs now is the ability to edit the actual maps, along with documentation on Golden Sun's scripting language. That, and preferrably some way to rewrite the text compression table, and figure out the remaining graphic compression routines (wait, hasn't Atrius done this already?)
I do have my own hack that I work with from time to time. I've also tried looking into the game's code a bit. I can do 6502/65c816 assembly, but the ARM opcodes have me stumped, even with Salanewt's reference list and the documentation on GBAtek. I can't seem to make any sense of the code I've seen so far, so clearly I'm missing something about how the commands are being used. I could probably figure it out eventually, but... it's a huge time sink and I'm not making much progress. Otherwise I might be able to contribute a bit more to this site.
And then there's the Community Hack, which was supposed to be the big thing for this site... which I think is dead in a sense. Not because Atrius stopped working with the editor, but because the community that wanted to make the hack in the first place simply isn't there anymore. Even if the community hack is finished now, it will never be what it was intended to be. I'll probably make a more official post about my thoughts on this later, it's something I've planned to do for quite a while.
QuoteWell, this site is even called Golden Sun Hacking... personally, I think it should primarily be about hacking Golden Sun. And the people who are active here right now don't really come across to me as roleplaying people. Except maybe Role (duh).
What's worse is that we have had an RP section for so long, and seeing as it has not been put to
much use by anyone recently, I doubt that it would be worth expanding that section anytime soon.
QuoteThe problem we're looking at if we want an active community based around that is, there are not enough people doing it. As of now, only Teawater is actually looking into the game's code. But I don't really see why this is a problem. Why does it have to be an active community? As far as I can see, that's not necessary to fulfill its intended purpose.
As for the editor, it has come a long way already. You can edit pretty much all existing values and all text, and the map code viewer is very powerful. What the editor really needs now is the ability to edit the actual maps, along with documentation on Golden Sun's scripting language. That, and preferrably some way to rewrite the text compression table, and figure out the remaining graphic compression routines (wait, hasn't Atrius done this already?)
I do have my own hack that I work with from time to time. I've also tried looking into the game's code a bit. I can do 6502/65c816 assembly, but the ARM opcodes have me stumped, even with Salanewt's reference list and the documentation on GBAtek. I can't seem to make any sense of the code I've seen so far, so clearly I'm missing something about how the commands are being used. I could probably figure it out eventually, but... it's a huge time sink and I'm not making much progress. Otherwise I might be able to contribute a bit more to this site.
Kind of depressing for me to be the only one, huh? ; I wouldn't quite say the Map Code Viewer is
very powerful, but I suppose it is well on its way. (I haven't advanced the feature yet, or anything, though.)
GBA Thumb is simple, but I suppose you only mean the ARM counterpart. Which makes some sense as well. Sometimes you'll even see them down in a 2-step process. (Much like having two thumb instructions.)
add r0, r1, r2 lsl r3
is the same as
lsl r0, r2, r3
add r0, r1, r0
r0 for lsl is a guess.
Which amounts to : r0 = r1 + (r2 << r3) ; if I recall correctly.
Ofcourse, there are many other things you should know about arm. Like if you have a 64-bit return, the result goes in two registers. (One for the most significant part, and the other for the least significant.)
How is it a problem? If it's not an active community, people lose interest and leave. Sala, for example. When we've only got one or two people left, then who is Teawater developing for? If Teawater is gonna take over development for the editor, which it looks like he's trying to do, the least we can do is make sure there's an active site to keep people here for when he makes releases.
Quote from: Rolina on 23, January, 2013, 08:41:39 AM
Sala, for example.
He didn't leave because of inactivity and lack of interest. He left because of school and the @#$% you did last April Fools Day.
Agreed. Sala's departure was not an activity thing. Honestly, anyone who cares about the editor enough will grab the next release of the editor, signed up or not. I mean it's not like you have to be registered to download it. I know from experience; I downloaded the editor THEN joined the site. That said, honestly, the only one clamoring for more activity is you, Role. I'm not saying more activity would be a bad thing. But if we force extra activity, then we'll end up doing more harm than good.
Quote from: Rolina on 23, January, 2013, 08:41:39 AMHow is it a problem? If it's not an active community, people lose interest and leave. Sala, for example. When we've only got one or two people left, then who is Teawater developing for? If Teawater is gonna take over development for the editor, which it looks like he's trying to do, the least we can do is make sure there's an active site to keep people here for when he makes releases.
If the site is to get more activity, I'd prefer it to be on the hacking/indie development side of things, since that feels more relevant to the site. But of course, a community is defined by its members, so I guess only time can tell what becomes of this site. Regarding hacking progress and development of the editor... I'm under the impression he does it because it's interesting. Isn't that the reason anyone would hack a game in the first place? At least I know I don't do it to be nice to people on the internet... however, improvements on the editor would be helpful to a lot of people. When that time comes, spread the news. But people who don't come here for stuff related to editing the GS games probably won't be eagerly awaiting a new editor release.
Quote from: Overlord Kain on 23, January, 2013, 10:43:24 AMQuote from: Rolina on 23, January, 2013, 08:41:39 AMSala, for example.
He didn't leave because of inactivity and lack of interest. He left because of school and the @#$% you did last April Fools Day.
We all have different priorities, and since he decided to leave entirely, clearly the other things in his life are more interesting than this site. I find it difficult to believe the time he spent here would cause him to do so poorly at school that it would cause him problems in life. I figure he just got bored with us all, and I can't blame him. He seemed to try to encourage people to do stuff all the time and hardly got any response at all.
Quote from: Teawater on 22, January, 2013, 07:04:31 PM
Kind of depressing for me to be the only one, huh? ; I wouldn't quite say the Map Code Viewer is very powerful, but I suppose it is well on its way. (I haven't advanced the feature yet, or anything, though.)
I guess it's powerful in the same way that a hex editor is powerful... it does show you all the code related to the particular map, which scripts are being used, which data is being loaded (and to some extent which routines are being called)... and also disassembles all the code on the map. shame it has no search function though.
QuoteGBA Thumb is simple, but I suppose you only mean the ARM counterpart. Which makes some sense as well. Sometimes you'll even see them down in a 2-step process. (Much like having two thumb instructions.)
Actually, I've probably only been looking at thumb code :Sweat:
I suppose it's simple
enough, but as if having 32-bit opcodes wasn't bad enough already, breaking down hex values to bit level to find out which particular flavor of an instruction I'm looking at, still not being entirely sure, and not having any context to what is being done after getting through a few instructions... it's kind of frustrating. But I suppose it's really the wrong way to go about it. It always seems like I'm starting in the wrong end...
Quoteadd r0, r1, r2 lsl r3
is the same as
lsl r0, r2, r3
add r0, r1, r0
r0 for lsl is a guess.
Which amounts to : r0 = r1 + (r2 << r3) ; if I recall correctly.
So, uh...
lsl r0, r2, r3 - shifts the bits in r2 left by the value in r3, and stores in r0?
add r0, r1, r0 - add r1 to r0 and store result in r0, I guess?
Yeah I know I said I could do assembly, but I don't exactly have a lot of experience with it :Sweat:
QuoteOfcourse, there are many other things you should know about arm. Like if you have a 64-bit return, the result goes in two registers. (One for the most significant part, and the other for the least significant.)
Umm, yeah. I hope I can get the basics of thumb down before I even have to deal with ARM code. I also can never seem to remember how GBA addresses work (as in which written address equals which physical address). But, let's not turn this thread into ASM discussion :Sweat:
I noticed there's a thread specifically for ASM questions... I might try to bug you about it later, if I find the motivation to look into it again.
Quote from: KiollI downloaded the editor THEN joined the site.
I believe I did the same thing back in 2009, if I remember correctly.
QuoteIf the site is to get more activity, I'd prefer it to be on the hacking/indie development side of things, since that feels more relevant to the site. But of course, a community is defined by its members, so I guess only time can tell what becomes of this site. Regarding hacking progress and development of the editor... I'm under the impression he does it because it's interesting. Isn't that the reason anyone would hack a game in the first place? At least I know I don't do it to be nice to people on the internet... however, improvements on the editor would be helpful to a lot of people. When that time comes, spread the news. But people who don't come here for stuff related to editing the GS games probably won't be eagerly awaiting a new editor release.
I'm not so sure an active site would make releases any faster unless the people in it were helping in the long run. (Hacking/logging information; adding to the editor; making suggestions; etc.)
And yes, researching data and coding is very interesting. But it is also very time consuming, which means that it gets boring, and this results in procrastination. And the same can apply with coding as well, except you are adding unexplained confusion when you get bugs you can't easily understand to the mix. (Much like that time I tried to add Keyboard Support.) In many cases, all this can pile up, til eventually, you end up quitting the project. (Especially when you find out that it's more to deal with than it is worth because of having better things to do.)
Now, having people here to use the editor is a nice encouragement, but sometimes, you just got to wonder if it is enough.
QuoteI suppose it's simple enough, but as if having 32-bit opcodes wasn't bad enough already, breaking down hex values to bit level to find out which particular flavor of an instruction I'm looking at, still not being entirely sure, and not having any context to what is being done after getting through a few instructions... it's kind of frustrating. But I suppose it's really the wrong way to go about it. It always seems like I'm starting in the wrong end...
If you ever plan on hacking DS, get use to seeing 32-bit code. ; I could go with a long tutorial, but I suppose it wouldn't help much if I didn't know which parts you actually needed help on.
-Find data based on what you are looking for (RAM/VRAM/PALETTE) If the value is to be in RAM (Ex: A Stat number) Use Search for cheats / RAM Search.
-You may want to find out how this data is affected, so you should use a debugger. (VBA-SDL-H) With a breakpoint write if looking for things like party data, etc.
-Sometimes, when scanning the code (In the case of breakpoint-write, scroll up), you can just look for ROM pointers, and research what those are if you don't feel like reading the assembly. Make sure not to scroll up too far, though, or you'll be looking at a different function. (Usually functions start with the push opcode, but they don't have to have one if they don't need one.) If you don't see any pointers, then you probably check the parent function. (The function that called the function you are looking at.) ; There are ways of finding the parent function, so it shouldn't be too difficult.
Pretty much, when reading the code, you must understand what the variables in the registers of the instruction you are looking at are- before you can understand the purpose of the instruction that is being executed.
Sometimes, you may not even need to check the assembly at all to find data that you are looking for. For example, for
uncompressed graphics, you can simply search for matching data in a Hex Editor.
Quotebreaking down hex values to bit level to find out which particular flavor of an instruction I'm looking at
Do you mean you aren't actually looking at the instructions themselves, but trying to convert the hex values instead? That seems to be a long way to go about it. Why not try using the GBA Dissassembler? (Tools => Dissassemble...) I probably should tell you that the map code is at 02008000.
QuoteUmm, yeah. I hope I can get the basics of thumb down before I even have to deal with ARM code. I also can never seem to remember how GBA addresses work (as in which written address equals which physical address). But, let's not turn this thread into ASM discussion
I noticed there's a thread specifically for ASM questions... I might try to bug you about it later, if I find the motivation to look into it again.
The addresses are read with ldr. ldr r#, [$########] (=$########) ; The address in the square brackets [ ] is where the value of the one in parenthesis ( ) is at. The parenthesis value should include the address of a database. And you aren't just limited to ROM pointers. RAM, VRAM, PALETTE, etc. are done the same way. ; Anyway, this puts the address in r#, you can then make any calculations you want to read/write to the specific data in the databases. After the calculations are made, we use another load (ldr/ldrh/ldrb/etc., depending on the datatype) to read the data. (Or if we are writing to RAM, str/strh/strb/etc.)
Okay, perhaps this shouldn't be an ASM thread. Anyway, the thread I made on ASM questions should be in General Hacking, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, here it is:
http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=966.0
Quote from: Teawater on 23, January, 2013, 05:13:48 PMI'm not so sure an active site would make releases any faster unless the people in it were helping in the long run. (Hacking/logging information; adding to the editor; making suggestions; etc.)
Probably not, but I never said it would.
QuoteAnd yes, researching data and coding is very interesting. But it is also very time consuming, which means that it gets boring, and this results in procrastination. And the same can apply with coding as well, except you are adding unexplained confusion when you get bugs you can't easily understand to the mix. (Much like that time I tried to add Keyboard Support.) In many cases, all this can pile up, til eventually, you end up quitting the project. (Especially when you find out that it's more to deal with than it is worth because of having better things to do.)
Tell me about it - looks like you just nailed the reason why I haven't made much progress.
Looks like you took the time to reply to all my questions anyway...
I'll take the replies to the appropriate thread :Sweat:
I agree with Misery on prefering the site to remain a GS hacking/indie game community. Even if we expand it as a general Golden Sun site there are already more active sites for that purpose, we'd be competing with established communities.
I definitely don't care for turning it into something it was never meant to be to begin with like an RP community. I doubt I would have any interest in it any more so it would get handed off too. Might as well just shut the site down, and open a different one.
Ultimately I would like to try to honor the wishes of the members, but in my case if GSHC dies as GSHC I'd be fine with it.
Well, that's the thing. Not everyone wishes for the site to die - some of us invested over three years of our lives here. We'd like to see it stick around a bit longer, even if that means we do things like make hacks for games other than golden sun.
Sites die eventually Role, no matter how popular or lively they are and no matter how much we love them. IMO it's amazing that a site lasts longer than a year. This site's been here for 3+ and I believe as long as activity is happening the site will remain. (Which btw, how many others are actually hacking and contributing data?)
I'm not doing this to sound rude but, unless you can get more people to work or get some kind of thing going, I don't see GSHC lasting much longer.
There may not be that many left who are interested in hacking the GS games, but I still think there's enough to form something that could be considered a community. When the site is no longer maintained, I suppose that's when it dies, but I hope nobody will try to kill it off as long as there is still interest.
This is the only site dedicated to researching and editing the GS games. If it were to try to do something else it would lose its purpose for existing, at least in my eyes. As Atrius already said, we'd be competing with better established communities. Even if the site disappears, neither its members nor their actions will (though several have already left, or otherwise ceased their activity). At the very least, I'd expect the most significant research data and documentation to be archived.
Right now, I say we keep on trucking forward. If we want to bring activity back to the site, I think the best way to do that is start coordinating efforts on our various projects. For instance, for those of us who have the time on our hands, some of us are working on rather large overall projects, such as my BYOND game, and possibly Role's signature thing. Things that could use extra hands. If we can start working together (like a good community should), we might be able to put some life back into this site. I know once I get more hands on my project I'll start updating information on it on here a lot more often, and this would be the first place I'd go looking for alpha and beta testers.
I didn't read every post word for word, but I got a good idea on each of them.
Personally, I like Tea's first post where he suggests branching from hacking to full information on the Golden Sun games. It might be worth it to spend some time building a section that acts as a database for all information on Golden Sun.
I myself don't like the idea of a RP forum, but that's just me. If others like the idea, I won't leave simply because of a topic change here. What I would like to see is more visitors. More content that matches what people google in combination with "Golden Sun" means more possible visits. More visits means more possible people joining our ranks. More people joining means more content and interest. It's a cycle that we ourselves have to start and keep going.
If I was any good at coding, I would be working on the editor, but my website coding is shoddy at best these days, and I've only ever attempted making a program once.....Bad experience. That said, I'm still very interested in seeing a complete editor, as well as seeing the Community Hack created.
I'm not an RPer, and I joined this site with the hopes to see Gs hacking progress. I hope GS hacking will continue to progress, and some of Teawater's work gives me hope! :)
personally, i love the sight. i regret having been gone for so long. i wish i had stayed. i dont want it to die at all. i had big plans for things here. i was hoping to get some of my friends in on the site. and why does it have to be a huge community. i see plenty of people. and y'all are all great people. if more people come then great, but im happy with the people here now. i dont do RP at all. never really tried it frankly, but i would prefer it stay hacking. i just think we can keep on going. who knows maybe there will be an upswing in GS fans.
and as for the community project, i wish it would keep going even if it didnt get to where we thought it would be. but i would be glad to hop on any hacking project and contribute what i can.
Clearly you guys are still hacking. And as an outsider, I'm glad you guys exist. So rock on.
If one was to think of how the site would change or evolve or whatever, clearly it'd just have to get better at doing what it does, and not try to be something it's not. A quick google search found that "the Golden Sun Adept's Refuge" already sprung up to do the other info/roleplay stuff some members talked about. So what are your coding related goals? I may not be here for much, but I can at least provide some conversation. And I'm genuinely interested.
As a hobbyist coder, I'd say people sometimes code in spurts. And spurts are easier to commit to than lifestyle choices. And I think stuff like Adept's Refuge is basically a lifestyle choice. I expect the reason "Sala" left was just because he (she?) realized he was too committed to this community--perhaps even too dependent on it, in terms of what he did on a daily basis (it's the same with anyone if they find themselves checking the same forum on a daily basis, or even multiple times a day). And so he freed himself (I apologize if I'm assuming too much. I mean to make general observations, and don't claim to know the specifics of you and your friends).
What I propose is that you make it ok and even EXPECTED that people only come to the site in X-month. So it's an intense, but limited commitment. There's a reason why we have that month where people are challenged to start and finish a novel; to code a game in XX-hours; to make a movie in XX-hours etc.
So... here's an idea. A sort of tradition you can do on Aprils' fool, or on Halloween, or some occasion when it's in season to play tricks. Make it an event where you go into a rom, and make one small but funny change. And include a tutorial on how to do it. This could result in a single blog post, or whatever. Better yet, a youtube vid. But essentially it's
(1) An excuse for people to tune in, once a year,
(2) where they'll see what you do, and be reminded of hacking,
(3) be shown how to do a simple hack.
So it's really just PR, and maybe you'll have a good time brainstorming what simple hack you want to do. And maybe people like Sala would feel just fine dropping back in for a little bit, just to say hi.
And if you have enough people who actually hack, eventually you could even make a challenge of this, to see who can provide the funniest hack. Because the goal is humor and "viewer's choice," one wouldn't even have to be a great hacker to compete. All you need is a quick way to show off your hack. And nowadays one could do this quickly and cheaply with a gif maker.
If by "you guys" you mean Teawater, then yeah...
And I guess I pick this up occasionally too, but even then I mostly work on my own projects and don't do much in the way of research.
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 01, January, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
I expect the reason "Sala" left was just because he (she?) realized he was too committed to this community--perhaps even too dependent on it, in terms of what he did on a daily basis (it's the same with anyone if they find themselves checking the same forum on a daily basis, or even multiple times a day). And so he freed himself (I apologize if I'm assuming too much. I mean to make general observations, and don't claim to know the specifics of you and your friends).
Salanewt (a guy, by the way), left for other reasons. As a person who considers himself in the know on this sort of thing, I will inform you that Sala left not because he felt trapped, but because he felt like he wasn't needed. Also, he was pushed away slightly, by who or what I won't say. Regardless, Sala still produces stuff that gets put up here occasionally, just doesn't do it himself.
Your other ideas are fine, by the way... Also, I officially have to thank you for proving I'm not the only person who knows what NaNo is.
Quote from: Misery on 02, January, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
If by "you guys" you mean Teawater, then yeah...
And I guess I pick this up occasionally too, but even then I mostly work on my own projects and don't do much in the way of research.
lol, sorry. What kind of projects are you working on? Or are you keeping them secret so the vultures don't pick at your baby?
And it seems even Atrius is in the same boat as you, so ... heck. I guess the main thing you guys have in common is that you're each working towards your own thing. Or am I putting too much pressure on you?
Quote from: Kioll on 02, January, 2014, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 01, January, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
I expect the reason "Sala" left was just because he (she?) realized he was too committed to this community--perhaps even too dependent on it, in terms of what he did on a daily basis (it's the same with anyone if they find themselves checking the same forum on a daily basis, or even multiple times a day). And so he freed himself (I apologize if I'm assuming too much. I mean to make general observations, and don't claim to know the specifics of you and your friends).
Salanewt (a guy, by the way), left for other reasons. As a person who considers himself in the know on this sort of thing, I will inform you that Sala left not because he felt trapped, but because he felt like he wasn't needed. Also, he was pushed away slightly, by who or what I won't say. Regardless, Sala still produces stuff that gets put up here occasionally, just doesn't do it himself.
Your other ideas are fine, by the way... Also, I officially have to thank you for proving I'm not the only person who knows what NaNo is.
So this is in reference to the mysterious group-project that blew up? I'm reminded of that phrase from the old "wonder years" tv show, that sometimes you need to grow apart, to grow together. It's cool that he's still active, and his stuff's getting recognized over here.
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 02, January, 2014, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: Misery on 02, January, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
If by "you guys" you mean Teawater, then yeah...
And I guess I pick this up occasionally too, but even then I mostly work on my own projects and don't do much in the way of research.
lol, sorry. What kind of projects are you working on? Or are you keeping them secret so the vultures don't pick at your baby?
And it seems even Atrius is in the same boat as you, so ... heck. I guess the main thing you guys have in common is that you're each working towards your own thing. Or am I putting too much pressure on you?
lol, don't worry about it. It's not as much that I'm keeping it secret as that I really don't have much to share.
The hack project that I keep coming back to is meant to be a game where you keep a 4-player party through the entire game. Difficulty will be raised quite a bit, and there's a lot of focus on the class system. I'm trying to add more strategic variety to the game, and it will also play a lot more like a dungeon crawler than an RPG.
One reason I'm bad with some RPGs is that I can't handle the pressure of making a *permanent* decision. And I just came from the TWEWY thread, so I gotta ask, is it possible to hack in a slider that can toggle player's levels and stats? This way you get to have your difficulty cake, and eat it too (not sure if the metaphor checks out).
Is there a thread where you talk about the ideas behind your game/hack? I know that people tend to bounce between " I wanna talk about my ideas" and "argh, I'm sick of talking--I wanna make something!" What zone are you in right now?
I'm a person who dislikes having to make permanent decisions as well. I tend to handle it much better in games, since well, they're games.
I don't have any thread where I talk about my current project, although I have a few design documents for it. I'm somewhat reluctant to share anything about it since I keep changing things all the time, but at the very least the classes have begun to cement themselves after many revisions and iterations.
As for the difficulty thing, the game already has a "hard mode", so it might be possible to apply checks for that in more places. As it is though, it only raises HP and stats of enemies, doing any more than that might be a bit complicated.
However, the "difficulty" I have in mind isn't about making the game more grindy, it's mainly about making character customization and strategic choices have more significance.
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 01, January, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
So... here's an idea. A sort of tradition you can do on Aprils' fool, or on Halloween, or some occasion when it's in season to play tricks...
aw hell. At the time I didn't even know. My bad. This was a hilariously bad choice of example, in retrospect.
But the suggestion's basically to do small "community things" once in a while, like "let's all replay the first Golden Sun," or whatever. I'm in no way advocating doing forced stuff to try and "build up activity," or whatever. Activity will go where it wants to go. And let virtual spaces be what they are.
So what is this place for you guys now? Is this the only place you hang, or is it just one of your periodic stops?
One of the periodic stops.
I go to Yoshi's Lighthouse, YouTube, DeSmuME.org to see when DeSmuME gets updated, romhacking.net (To check utilities), I sometimes check when the Lazyshell editor has been updated, I also use google a lot.
I also go to 3dbrew.org to see where their fundraiser is going, but now, the page to donate is gone... (It has been unavailable for some time, so I'm not sure what they are up to.)
Quote from: Thunder-squall on 03, January, 2014, 07:05:58 PM
So what is this place for you guys now? Is this the only place you hang, or is it just one of your periodic stops?
I only check in here occasionally... since stuff does happen here occasionally.
I mostly go on GSAR (Adepts' Refuge), but even there I'm not that active.
Honestly i was under the impression that Sala was Teawater lol
both with their yoshi avaters
Nope. I'm not Salanewt. But I guess I can say I am a fan, which might be part of the reason I have a Yoshi avatar.
I've always been a fan of blue yoshi, and the ability to fly. Was there a Black Yoshi in Super Mario World (1)? Because one of the older kids told me there was, but I didn't quite believe him....
Anyway, is the Adept's Refuge basically everything that Role and whomever were suggesting at the beginning of this thread? I.e. with the roleplay, and the lore-documentation stuff?
I don't think so. I only recall Yellow (Ground Pound), Red (Fire), Blue (Fly), and Green (Normal). Also, I think Green(?) Yoshi (Not sure about others?) could hold a shell in his mouth of red, blue, or yellow to use their respective ability. (Or was that how Yoshis got their ability in the first place? I forget now... I'll just go with the former.)
(If one was in SMW, either I missed it, or it was unused material. My guess is that he was thinking of a different game.)
The original yoshi came in 4 colours in SMW. red, blue. yellow green
I always said, in Mario Kart, they shopuld add in a yellow shell. that does the pound. the bluw shell can keep the wings and attack in a different way but meh anyone thats played SMW will know what i mean.
Wasn't the yellow shell also the one where, if a Koopa Troopa got into it, they'd basically get star-powers?
Quote from: Misery on 22, January, 2013, 05:14:42 PM
Well, this site is even called Golden Sun Hacking... personally, I think it should primarily be about hacking Golden Sun. And the people who are active here right now don't really come across to me as roleplaying people. Except maybe Role (duh).
The problem we're looking at if we want an active community based around that is, there are not enough people doing it. As of now, only Teawater is actually looking into the game's code. But I don't really see why this is a problem. Why does it have to be an active community? As far as I can see, that's not necessary to fulfill its intended purpose.
As for the editor, it has come a long way already. You can edit pretty much all existing values and all text, and the map code viewer is very powerful. What the editor really needs now is the ability to edit the actual maps, along with documentation on Golden Sun's scripting language. That, and preferrably some way to rewrite the text compression table, and figure out the remaining graphic compression routines (wait, hasn't Atrius done this already?)
I do have my own hack that I work with from time to time. I've also tried looking into the game's code a bit. I can do 6502/65c816 assembly, but the ARM opcodes have me stumped, even with Salanewt's reference list and the documentation on GBAtek. I can't seem to make any sense of the code I've seen so far, so clearly I'm missing something about how the commands are being used. I could probably figure it out eventually, but... it's a huge time sink and I'm not making much progress. Otherwise I might be able to contribute a bit more to this site.
And then there's the Community Hack, which was supposed to be the big thing for this site... which I think is dead in a sense. Not because Atrius stopped working with the editor, but because the community that wanted to make the hack in the first place simply isn't there anymore. Even if the community hack is finished now, it will never be what it was intended to be. I'll probably make a more official post about my thoughts on this later, it's something I've planned to do for quite a while.
I think one reason it's important to chart out a direction for the site is because it helps moderators and admin determine how to govern I.e. do you want to encourage activity for activity's sake, or do you want to keep interactions focused around certain objectives? What behavior should mod's and members encourage or discourage directly, or indirectly with badges and the like?
One option's to let clans find their own interpretations for these things, and choose their own internal directions. But I do think it's helpful to have some sort of broad collective agreement as well.
For example, do we all agree that we want to reward people for using or providing documentation for the LA editor? Do we want to give Tea more incentive to get a collection of guides together? Etc. etc. And do we care about activity for activity's sake, at least at the moment? So maybe post a victory ranking for the clans, depending on active members. Maybe give double points for active clan leaders, since it encourages leaders to troop on, even with no supporters.
I would personally describe the site's direction as this: it's the home of the GS/TLA editor, and by extension, is about Golden Sun, game hacking/modding, and games/game development in a broader sense. I think activity of any kind (well, within reason) is probably good, because it gives people a reason to come back to the site. This in turn can serve as encouragement to contribute to the site - if there's people here, such contributions won't go unnoticed.
I don't see any worth in introducing a new point system, ranking system, etc. There's already the karma system and the coin system (though I think people, like myself, tend to forget that it exists). As for the clans, I always liked the idea, but they can't really be a thing with the community being as small as it is. And honestly, with the GS fandom being as small as it is, it's pretty hard to make it a thing anywhere.
On another note, I can see I've learned a thing or two since I made that post... ehehe.
One reason I've stuck with the site was the potential to find more people who'd actually be willing to engage with technical stuff-- I.e. Majora who's given me some pointers on audio stuff. It's the technical bent of the site that's kept me here. In contrast, I'm not even registered at the GSAR (though to be fair haven't even lurked there much).