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Author Topic: Editor Questions I think  (Read 16803 times)
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Rolina
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2015, 02:49:19 AM »

I don't think it's technically that in code, but that's how it turns out, yes.  I think it determines the order it checks things in the class section, since re-ordering classes in less-sensible ways seems to fix it.
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2015, 10:00:31 AM »

Quote
You can't tweak elemental values without screwing up any and all semblance of order in classes
There is already an elemental value setup that works for each of the four elements, why would you want to tweak them?

Quote
You can't create an item to add effect accuracy without screwing up classes
Added effects on items have two values, an effect ID and an argument (for example Venus Power, +15). Theoretically I see no problem with creating a new effect ID and including its value in the effect accuracy formula. You'd have to make custom code for an item that affects elemental levels either way.

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You can't change a character's element without a ton of trail and error overhauling of the class system
Copy the elemental values of a character who is of the element you want to change them into.
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2015, 10:47:16 AM »

Quote
You can't tweak elemental values without screwing up any and all semblance of order in classes
There is already an elemental value setup that works for each of the four elements, why would you want to tweak them?
Because it makes no sense for a character's symbiotic element to be their elemental weakness?

Quote
Quote
You can't change a character's element without a ton of trail and error overhauling of the class system
Copy the elemental values of a character who is of the element you want to change them into.
And Rolina's saying that doesn't work and causes class glitches for whatever strange reason.
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2015, 12:13:55 PM »

Quote
You can't tweak elemental values without screwing up any and all semblance of order in classes
There is already an elemental value setup that works for each of the four elements, why would you want to tweak them?
Because it makes no sense for a character's symbiotic element to be their elemental weakness?
It could be argued that it makes sense, but that's a whole different topic. Either way, elemental weakness for player characters is not relevant to anything. I mean, a character with 200 in all resistances would be considered by the game to be weak against every element.

Quote
Quote
Quote
You can't change a character's element without a ton of trail and error overhauling of the class system
Copy the elemental values of a character who is of the element you want to change them into.
And Rolina's saying that doesn't work and causes class glitches for whatever strange reason.
I don't claim to know the class sorting code in depth, but I can't imagine there's anything that associates any particular character with an element. AFAIK those elemental values are all the class sorting has to identify a base element, and what little testing I've done supports this notion. For example, if you give Ivan or Sheba the elemental value set for Venus, their classes will work exactly like Isaac's and Felix's classes normally would.
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2015, 05:12:42 PM »

Quote from: Misery
I don't claim to know the class sorting code in depth, but I can't imagine there's anything that associates any particular character with an element. AFAIK those elemental values are all the class sorting has to identify a base element, and what little testing I've done supports this notion. For example, if you give Ivan or Sheba the elemental value set for Venus, their classes will work exactly like Isaac's and Felix's classes normally would.
Yeah, but what Rolina's saying is that doing that causes weird behaviour when giving them Djinn of their original element due to the order in which the game checks for classes. I don't see how it could, but there you go.
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2015, 05:46:02 PM »

I'm not sure if I'm convinced about this "order" thing after changing elemental levels... Maybe I'll have to think about it more...(?) The only thing I remember being PC-specific outside of Elemental Levels were for Jenna and Piers using their base class. (Or Party 1/Party 2 if using Atrius's patch.) I do agree that you need classes to be ordered from least to greatest, though. And that changing elemental levels could lead to some re-balancing needs for classes.

Quote
EDIT: ok so new question aimed @Rol
for some reason my class systems are off, for example, I changed Ivan to a venus and for some reason when I give it Jupiter djinne's it has the names wrong, the stats and abilities work fine without issue, gaining psynergies in the right order and all
but it starts with the name I had typed for tis highest stage, well nor even that actually, but I guess the highest stage is Lost age exclusive, as for with Isaac who is now Jupiter by nature, giving him just 1 earth djinne will make him start in the 3 stage name and from there same problem.
is there a reason for this?
if needed I can list all stuff I did in the classes?
^Maybe a little vague? - I'm not sure if they knew how Class Type worked or not?
If Ivan is Jupiter (Jupiter 5 elemental level), and you give it Jupiter djinn, Ivan stays Jupiter. (Class type stays the same.)
If Ivan is Venus (Venus 5 elemental level), and you give it Jupiter djinn, Ivan is mixed. Class type is different... Depending on primary/secondary element (Solar Jupiter/Lunar Venus; I say Solar for when primary element is Venus or Mars, and Lunar when primary element is Jupiter or Mercury.)

P.S. = I should probably note that I /might/ have skimmed over a portion of this topic...


---
Trivia moment? -- I can say that how the secondary element is retrieved, is that it checks for the highest elemental level while skipping the primary element one. (Yeah, primary and secondary are in separate loops.) , and then both those values are used to get Class Type value from Class Type Chart.... and then matching those with every class (Starting from the end of the list and going backwards, if I recall correctly.)... those that match do further checks with elemental level requirements... if those pass, that's your class. -- (And that's ignoring Jenna/Piers base class change/item classes.... )
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 06:42:24 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2015, 11:26:31 AM »

completely lost XD

should I otherwise just post all the stuff I did, well not all all, but all relevant to this issue, such as:
-Who is it for and kind of the role (like Isaac - Jupiter)
-stage name number (like: single-Mars 1, single-mars 2)
-type value its on (and how I came to it if I remember)
-levels needed values

and then the issue I am having with that one in the game
though I have to admit I have yet to test the triple and the 2 attempts for qautro element ones, but I am guessing those would have issues as well if its already has issues with the dual ones.

with that I should note: I have done some attempts at splitting the symbiotic dual ones and played with the triple element ones a little like that as well
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 01:32:55 PM »

Technically, it's still possible.  However, the forces you to scramble the order classes are put in.  I don't remember the specifics - when I was working on that, it was at least a year ago, and I don't the guy who figured it out is still around.  All and all, we figured it's just plain easier to keep it so that classes stayed in the order they're in now rather than trying to figure it out.
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2015, 09:33:46 PM »

feel like you guys are talking about this so deep that I get overthrown
maybe I should just redo it all and use Rol's blank sheets for it (is by chance the blank ones put down without symbiotic types for those that dont want to have a symbiotic class like brute)
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« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2015, 03:21:19 AM »

I think I need help exporting sprites, and I don't think that me not knowing what version of the editor I'm using helps.

I did make a screenshot of my editor though.

Hope it helps.

I'm also wondering if it's possible to change the max amount of party members, but that's something I will deal with later...


* Screenshot_1.png (17.23 KB, 506x408 - viewed 476 times.)
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« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2015, 03:35:54 AM »

While I could ask you to go to Help>About, I'm going to just guess instead...
You are -probably- using version 0.4? Correct me if I'm wrong... as I am guessing based on the fact that the Data Viewer icon is not in that image. (0.5 was his last and final version... as Atrius is no longer working on the GS Editor project... last time we've heard.)

Quote
I'm also wondering if it's possible to change the max amount of party members, but that's something I will deal with later...
It's not possible with the editor... While it may technically be possible from a hex editor standpoint, it would likely take a huge amount of work to do... and assembly/coding knowledge is definitely required.
Of course, if you're planning on reducing the amount, that may be as simple as keeping the PC from joining your team to begin with....
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 03:43:50 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2015, 03:57:06 AM »

While I could ask you to go to Help>About, I'm going to just guess instead...
You are -probably- using version 0.4? Correct me if I'm wrong... as I am guessing based on the fact that the Data Viewer icon is not in that image. (0.5 was his last and final version... as Atrius is no longer working on the GS Editor project... last time we've heard.)

Quote
I'm also wondering if it's possible to change the max amount of party members, but that's something I will deal with later...
It's not possible with the editor... While it may technically be possible from a hex editor standpoint, it would likely take a huge amount of work to do... and assembly/coding knowledge is definitely required.
Of course, if you're planning on reducing the amount, that may be as simple as keeping the PC from joining your team to begin with....

Actually, I found where it said the version, and yes, it's version 0.4 fix 2, awhile after I posted though.
So I'm gonna have to grab 0.5 if I'm planning on doing something like add Flandre Scarlet as a bonus boss? (Yes, I do realize that it was already done, I'm still trying to do it anyway.) I've even went as far as grabbing Field and Battle sprites for her. (With the  Battle Sprites being ripped from Mystical Chain. Not too sure where the Field Sprite was ripped.)

Anyhow, I would actually like help with figuring this out anyway.
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2015, 01:21:27 AM »

 Alex Hmmm....Seems Johnstir can't find the 0.5 version of the TLA editor. How unfortanate.

Shut up Alex, Sheesh when I played Golden Sun TLA when I was younger, I somehow completely ignored you. But now I am just SEVERELY ANNOYED BY YOUR MYSTERIOUS-NESS!!!


Oh right! anyhow, I can't seem to find the 0.5 download link anywhere on the site. Sooo.... yeaahhh... Sweat Drop

EDIT: Found the link, turns out, I had to bother googling the version of the editor.  Sweat Drop Sweat Drop

 JennaYeah, not to be rude, but you did kinda make yourself look a tad dumb there...

Jenna, shut up.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 01:25:21 AM by Johnstir, Reason: Found what I needed. » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2015, 01:47:45 AM »

Um... Yeah... He never actually finished 0.5... if I remember correctly... and that's why it was labeled Alpha... and I suspect that may have something to do with why it wasn't added to the main list of downloads? And that at some point, I believe he quit altogether... Basically moved on to his own new project.. code-named Forgotten Dreams... I have no idea how that's going... or even if it will be a success or not.

Garet Heheh! It took me a long time too, man... So don't feel too bad... That Download is really good at hiding! Right Isaac?

Isaac As much as it pains me to say, I'll have to agree with you on this one, Garet.  Sweat Drop
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 01:55:08 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2015, 02:01:45 AM »

 MiaThere's something wrong again, is there?

Yup. Sweat Drop

The editor seems to consistently stop responding when I click on a Empty Slot in the Data Viewer. And I'm using the 0.5 version, so I dunno what's going on.

IN FACT, as of me typing and posting this, It's still not responding, Soooo.....yea.... Sweat Drop Sweat Drop Sweat Drop

 Jenna How much experience do you have with game editors anyway, Johnstir?

Well....The only other thing I've used was a free trial version of RPG Maker VX Ace that I never got to finish.

EDIT: Seems the Editor won't let me use a empty sprite slot either, proclaiming that I must use a 16x16 image, and apparently, nothing I have, even the in-game sprites themselves-are 16x16
*Sigh*
 Mercury DjinniHA! HE CAN'T WORK THE EDITOR TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THEN START EVERYONE AT LVL 99 AND PUT IN A OVERPOWERED WEAPON!!!
Shut up Mudki-Wait, you're not John.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 02:48:41 AM by Johnstir, Reason: Moar Issues. Wtf is up with the editor? » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2015, 04:15:29 AM »

Yeah, the data and map viewers can be a little buggy in 0.5 version.

Data: Just be careful about clicking on certain things and you should be fine. Mind if I ask what you are trying to view?

Map: This may not be an issue for you, but in my case at least I can only look at up to three maps before the editor crashes; a simple reload should work, even if it's a tad annoying to have to do it.

Sprite: Yeah... now that feature was super early in development. :|
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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2015, 02:50:40 PM »

Yeah, the data and map viewers can be a little buggy in 0.5 version.

Data: Just be careful about clicking on certain things and you should be fine. Mind if I ask what you are trying to view?

Map: This may not be an issue for you, but in my case at least I can only look at up to three maps before the editor crashes; a simple reload should work, even if it's a tad annoying to have to do it.

Sprite: Yeah... now that feature was super early in development. :|

The things in the editor that say "Empty Slot" Hmmm.....Turns out, it crashes in Image Viewer...
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2019, 08:40:49 PM »

This thread has been dead for a while, but I could really use some help regarding classes. I'm just wondering how critical the order of the classes is in the editor. I inserted a lot of new tier 3 classes for both parties 1 and 2, but it's not organized by number. In fact, they're kind of just randomly scattered around wherever I found space. Is there some sort of logic that I need to be following when ordering these classes? Because almost all of them don't work, and most of the already established classes have also broken down (everyone is just turning up as an NPC). The only ones that are working are the ones with Jupiter and Mars as primary elements.

Also related... I changed the elemental levels of the characters at some point as an experiment, but then I changed them all back to their original values. Would this mess anything up even though I changed it back?

I also noticed the two values beneath the abilities in the class editor. Do these do anything?
Thanks in advance.
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2019, 02:21:27 PM »

This thread has been dead for a while, but I could really use some help regarding classes. I'm just wondering how critical the order of the classes is in the editor. I inserted a lot of new tier 3 classes for both parties 1 and 2, but it's not organized by number. In fact, they're kind of just randomly scattered around wherever I found space. Is there some sort of logic that I need to be following when ordering these classes? Because almost all of them don't work, and most of the already established classes have also broken down (everyone is just turning up as an NPC). The only ones that are working are the ones with Jupiter and Mars as primary elements.
Class requirements are checked from bottom to top / higher numbers to lower, and the first class to meet the requirements is assigned, so the order is very important. Make sure classes with higher elemental level requirements are placed after those with lower ones for all classes that share the same ID, otherwise the higher tiers will never have a chance to get checked.

As for getting NPCs, that happens when the character does not meet the elemental level requirements for any of the classes that uses the class ID they're getting from their current djinn setup. Here is an overview of how those are assigned. Generally, characters can have their primary element overridden by having 6 or more djinn of a different element, resulting in unexpected IDs (this is why the higher tiers of dual elemental classes are forced to use djinn of the character's own element)

Quote
Also related... I changed the elemental levels of the characters at some point as an experiment, but then I changed them all back to their original values. Would this mess anything up even though I changed it back?
No, not unless the editor does something funky. Which I'm pretty sure it doesn't in this case.

Quote
I also noticed the two values beneath the abilities in the class editor. Do these do anything?
Thanks in advance.
If you mean what I think you mean, those are IDs for ability effects (such as ailments or debuffs) that those classes are more vulnerable against. Yeah, that's a thing.
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2019, 02:29:47 AM »

The class type chart.... the numbers of which follow a certain order... (Mostly... but split in two groups.. that I like to think of Hot vs. Cold)).... Basically Venus, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter... if you are looking at it closely, you can see what I mean. (I have a list in the link)

http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=238.msg33588#msg33588


And yeah...
The steps are
1. Check what your top two elements are, and calculate a class type value. (As seen in whichever link you prefer.)
2. Scan class table from bottom to top comparing for class type values.
3. If there's a match, will continue by checking if you got element level reqs, if you don't keeps scanning up. If you have it, then this is you class.

There are slight differences.
-GS1 may directly set prologue classes ("?", "?", "Flame User" to the last IDs.) ...
-GS2 makes Jenna/Piers use different class type if in base class type. And is the only game with item classes.
-GS3 may redirect six different class types (For party 2) ... and also has a class type for Beast mode.



also... I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to code something that let's you know if a class can be gotten. (In the event that you have said class type)
Basically take the same reqs of said class, and then scan bottom to top... if you make it back to the same class without getting the reqs, the class can be gotten.

I believe it would work something like that... and you might need to have checks for each PC too... but I've not worked that out in my head.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 02:50:27 AM by Fox » Logged

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October 13, 2019, 04:51:53 PM
Salanewt: Oh, lol nice. :P
October 13, 2019, 04:44:28 PM
Fox: Maxi's already joined the server, he just never pops in.
October 13, 2019, 04:30:42 PM
Salanewt: I'll state up front that gsmagic has some overlap with the classic editor, but Teawater has been focusing on other things so you'll still want the original to do a lot of stuff.
October 13, 2019, 04:29:40 PM
Salanewt: As for moving posts over, I'll see if I can do it later today but I've been pretty busy these past few days.
October 13, 2019, 04:29:13 PM
Salanewt: Hey Maxi! I can help you with the latest "public" version of gsmagic if you join the Discord server, or when we start populating the board with topics, but if you want a download then you can go here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zZHTBD_7BTl6leXRgFulzSL9iS4TIBMt
October 13, 2019, 02:26:50 PM
Fox: Yes.  I am actually kind of surprised Salanewt hasn't moved my old GSMagic topic(s) over yet. (Even if they don't contain the latest versions.)  I have been focusing more on posting them to Discord. But it's been awhile since I've done any meaningful work, so....
October 12, 2019, 10:00:17 AM
MaxiPower: Any chance of getting a hold of the new editor for a test drive. Been here since day 1 (actually I was here since before there was a forum lol) so you can trust me.
October 07, 2019, 07:10:37 AM
Fox: It specializes in GS2, still... The others are just easter eggs because...similar formatting.
October 07, 2019, 06:26:27 AM
Salanewt: But it has GS1 editing and Mario game viewing/possible editing too.
October 07, 2019, 06:26:11 AM
Salanewt: That name made sense when it was just GS2 lol.
October 07, 2019, 05:02:04 AM
leaf: it's a better name than "the GSTLA editor" anyway
October 02, 2019, 08:13:00 AM
Misery: gsmagic is a fine name
October 01, 2019, 02:43:51 AM
Omx7: Heyo
September 29, 2019, 06:35:38 PM
Fox: Liking the changes so far.  In a way, I'm also wondering if I should give gsmagic a better name, since I see it has became a part of the Community, as I see by the board that has been added.... but... *shrug* - I can wait.  I still see it as an "experimental" editor.
September 28, 2019, 03:10:29 AM
zman9000: :)
September 25, 2019, 12:46:18 AM
Fox: Groovy.
September 25, 2019, 12:45:56 AM
Salanewt: Hey.
September 25, 2019, 12:23:19 AM
Megalord38: Hello, fellow Humans.
September 24, 2019, 11:18:49 PM
Salanewt: Yeah, baby!
September 24, 2019, 12:41:13 AM
Fox: Groovy?

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