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Author Topic: Lessons we've learned from Dark Dawn  (Read 48762 times)
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Durza
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« Reply #20 on: 29, May, 2011, 10:11:00 PM »

I don't remember anyone talking about Sheba, but she still ended up in my encyclopedia somehow... Amiti's just a bit naive because everyone thinks he's Jesus or something in his home and he's never left it except maybe Passaj. He and Tyrell are the only ones with personality and the other characters don't like them much for it.
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« Reply #21 on: 30, May, 2011, 10:23:19 AM »

I find it odd how no one ever mentions Kraden. Does this mean he's a perfect character, or simply not considered because he's only an 'honorary' party member?

Don't ask me why, but I liked Amiti. Especially the backstory they included about his father, which was only brought down because it wasn't used as an optional side-quest.

Karis was also pretty cool, although her arguments with Tyrell got dull after a while.
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« Reply #22 on: 30, May, 2011, 03:28:27 PM »

Quote
Amiti - Oh man, Amiti. First off, every. single. goddamn LINE he says basically lays down exactly what HIS morals are and what HE thinks of something and it just blocks the whole goddamn conversation. After a while every time I saw his face in a conversation I instantly pressed "A", just because I knew damn well it was going to be something along the lines of "I disagree with that and I will certainly hate you forever because of it" or "I agree with this and I will certainly love you forever because of it". AUUUGH.

At least Amiti had a personality, even though it was an annoying one. You don't have to like every character that Camelot comes up with. Some characters where probably intended to provoke dislike. I was more annoyed at the beginning of the game, where everyone has to name everyone else just because the player could then look up who they where. Although I do understand the reason for it... It was still annoying though, made the conversations sound fake.
His personality consists of telling people that he thinks something is right or wrong. Pretty flat to me. lol

I mean, at least Rief and Tyrell had the balls to stand up to Alex, and even Karis was pretty bold. Karis is an example of a character I didn't like but would have to admit she did have personality. Amiti... er... no.

I find it odd how no one ever mentions Kraden. Does this mean he's a perfect character, or simply not considered because he's only an 'honorary' party member?
Kraden basically stayed the same. Which is actually pretty nice, even though he still is pretty damn talkative.
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« Reply #23 on: 30, May, 2011, 03:47:25 PM »

Ah, but Kraden is a little funnier than I remember him. Remember that line about his messenger pigeon? It went kind of like "teach it to throw fireballs, and it would put you out of a job", when he was talking to Tyrell. This proves that both Kraden and Tyrell have personalities.

Amiti is kind of flat. Also seems to believe in labels quite a bit, as seen with Tret and Eoleo (wise and pirate). Instead of getting to know them, he treats them in accordance to what others have called them.
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« Reply #24 on: 30, May, 2011, 07:24:37 PM »

Amiti starts out awesome, but once his black and white morality starts to kick in he just gets to be "ugh." He gets better near the end of the game, when he finally starts to see that not everything is black and white, so he does get some clear character growth, but the whole pirate thing and the thing with laurel/tret really just leave a bad taste in your mouth.

I don't think anyone is gonna dispute that eoleo didn't get enough stage time to really develop his character, or that himi was a deus ex machina in character form. Personally, I found sveta one of the most interesting characters in the game, and I can never really understand all the hate she gets. Karis had some definite personality, but I felt that they exaggerated her arguments with tyrell too much, and they needed to stop saying that she was smart and instead just let her show it. She does show her intelligence occasionally, but it just got annoying constantly being reminded by the other characters that she's supposed to be the clever one in the party. Speaking of which, I think that gives us another lesson to learn from dark dawn: Show, don't tell.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #25 on: 30, May, 2011, 08:48:24 PM »

Only thing I really disagree with for you there is the furry fandom comment.  Ever since Garoh, people wanted to to have a werewolf character.  This was fanservice to them.  Hell, this was a fanservice game period.

First four act as Expies for the O8, satisfying those who wanted the originals to return.  The tutorial fight also serves this.
Himi is a female venusian, which was wanted.
Himi is a venus mage, which was wanted.
Eoleo was wanted as a playable character.
Sveta was the wanted werewolf
Sveta also acted as a "Jovian Fighter" of sorts, also wanted.
Amiti was basically people who wanted Piers but with better equipment support (what was really needed was better class support, but oh well).
We also got bows to satisfy that last bit.


Long story short:  Want a game to not suck?  Don't add everything at once. Add new stuff in installments, not together, otherwise it'll backfire hard.
I FORGOT THE BIGGEST ONE!

There's people who called for a fifth element.  While there's still no fifth element, they got something very close that many people claimed to be said fifth element - Light and Dark.  And now we have adepts for both.  Cue every single horrible mary-sue powered fanfic writer going "HA!  See?  My character is using legit powers!"
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« Reply #26 on: 31, May, 2011, 11:30:34 AM »

Oh god... Sure, I wanted a new element but did it have to be LIGHT? (and Dark)
I admit they seem the most obvious choices for new elements but that's also the precise reason I would avoid using them. Then again, it's not like Dark Dawn was anything but pathetically predictable. At least the originals surprised me occasionally.
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« Reply #27 on: 31, May, 2011, 02:02:45 PM »

Well there weren't really many other options for a fifth element. Though where does that leave fire and its light producing qualities?
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« Reply #28 on: 31, May, 2011, 06:43:19 PM »

I've seen Aether, Lightning, and Void all done as a fifth element.
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« Reply #29 on: 01, June, 2011, 10:58:26 AM »

I was thinking Metal (although obviously that would need a better name).
When you think about it, it doesn't really seem to fit into the existing elements and Steel (the djinn) is the only thing that connects metal to any of them.
Also, a Ghost (or Ethereal) element could have worked, especially for the necronomicon classes. It may sound somewhat dorky but at least it doesn't fit into the stereotypical Good/Evil element that Light and Dark have.

They could even have taken tips from Pokemon and made Dark an element on its own without being obviously 'evil'.


Thinking about it, the necronomicon (and a couple of the triple classes) are probably why I object so much; they go out of their way to shove in your face "Dark is evil!" but give you the option of choosing classes that could quite nicely fit into the new Dark element. If I have the option of having 'evil' classes then can I at least play an evil character?
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« Reply #30 on: 01, June, 2011, 12:23:06 PM »

This is Golden Sun.  Light is not good, Dark is not evil.  Watch, B&C had very valid reasons for what they were doing - come the next game, we'll find out they were similar to S&M in this regard.
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« Reply #31 on: 02, June, 2011, 10:39:37 AM »

More referring to massive evil tower that spawned millions of evil creatures that did a load of evil things.
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« Reply #32 on: 02, June, 2011, 12:16:06 PM »

The darkness itself isn't evil though.  It's just darkness.  The thing is that monsters tend to prefer it.  Look at it this way - birds prefer to be in the air.  Occasionally, you'll find a land-based or water-based bird, like Emus and Penguins, but other than that they tend to be more sky-based creatures.  Swap air with darkness and bird with 'generic monster' and you're good.
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« Reply #33 on: 02, June, 2011, 06:05:19 PM »

I'm pretty sure B&C are evil. Didn't Alex say they were going to fire the Apollo Lens at the High Empyror or something? And the whole torturing Volechek into insanity thing was a small bit evil I think... I suppose S&M did kill a lot of guards though.
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« Reply #34 on: 02, June, 2011, 07:11:09 PM »

More referring to massive evil tower that spawned millions of evil creatures that did a load of evil things.

And destroyed entire communities pretty much. Unless their reason involves saving the whole world (and maybe even the universe if Camelot brings that in), they seem like a pretty evil couple to me.
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« Reply #35 on: 03, June, 2011, 04:17:41 PM »

Of course, S&M were exactly the same... until you found out WHY they did everything in TLA.  The GS world loves shades of gray, don't forget that.  Is what they were doing wrong?  Of course.  But they may have had a very very good reason to be doing it.  S&M caused disasters, kidnapped people, and caused a hell of a lot of trouble.  Why?  To save the world.  I expect B&C to have a similar reason...

I'm theorycrafting here, but it could be that the High Empyror forced their people into servitude, or could be one of the causes for the Mourning Moon.  Don't outright say they were evil until you get more intel, and that's usually in the next game.
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« Reply #36 on: 03, June, 2011, 04:45:21 PM »

They weren't happy working for him since they were trying to kill the empyror by the end, but it seems unlikely one man could cause the Mourning Moon. Regardless, B&C were far more extreme than S&M.
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« Reply #37 on: 03, June, 2011, 04:49:16 PM »

No, not one man.  But one nation, sucking the power of alchemy out via those machines...
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« Reply #38 on: 04, June, 2011, 10:41:16 AM »

They only saw one machine though, and never actually found out how it worked. It could have been a prototype.
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« Reply #39 on: 04, June, 2011, 11:38:39 AM »

Also, I should point out I never even mentioned B&C because as I said before, there is a much better example of how Golden Sun's 'shades of grey' haven't been brought in as well to Dark Dawn:

More referring to massive evil tower that spawned millions of evil creatures that did a load of evil things.

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