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Thoughts on what we are made of...

Started by zman9000, 10, November, 2011, 02:10:49 PM

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zman9000

I saw an interesting video about physics and the universe, but it didn't lean to religion or evolution.
It only states facts about what we know for a fact to be true nothing more nothing less. It does talk the possibility of religion, but doesn't push it.
So this topic is about what you think we are really made of.
Watch the video first.



quick summery of the video's basic's
[spoiler]What we know right now is that everything is made up of light and only light. but light seems to be made of nothing, it simply exists. how something non-tangible can make up something tangible doesn't make sense.

The basic idea of how the universe is grouped together is this:
[spoiler]????? > light > quarks > v
                  > gluons > Protons   > v
                              > Electrons > v
                              > Neutrons > atoms > molecule > Cells > living being **
                                                                         > matter > Planets   > v
                                                                                      > Stars     > v
                                                                                      > moons    > v
                                                                                      > asteroids > solar systems > galaxy's > clusters > everything ***     [/spoiler][/spoiler]

So the question is: What are we made of?

[spoiler]Yes I'm bored![/spoiler]
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Thorion

#1
Religion is little more but mythology. We are creatures of flesh and blood, not what a storybook says. Flesh and blood is all that we are, it is all that we were, it is all that we will be.

Actually, my philosophy is that we are what we. I don't like either science or religion/mythology but I'll choose the most logical one.

zman9000

hmm... I think you're missing my point... This isn't a topic aimed at anything that has to do with religion.
It doesn't matter who you are, know one knows what we are made of, and this isn't out of any book.

The fact is we are made of something that doesn't even exist. it sounds weird, but we are made of light, and light is made up of something that exists, but yet doesn't exist.
This topic is for theory's on what that is and how it works.

The thing that confuses us about this thing is: we can inter act with it, but every time we do it does something different, even if everything is exactly the same. And its not a small change in what it does, it does something completely different.

[spoiler]The easiest way to explain how it changes is this: "the ball is light" "the wall is the unknown"
test1: throw a ball at a wall it bounces back.
test2: throw a ball at a wall it splits into 6 and start talking.
test2: throw a ball at a wall it turns into a fish and blows up.[/spoiler]

Basically, if you can't predict how something reacts, you don't know how it works, and when doing the same thing does something different and something that shouldn't even be able to happen in the known universe happens... something is wrong...
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Thorion

We're made out of good light and evil light.

zman9000

QuoteWe're made out of good light and evil light.

well, if you're going to be like that Explain what you mean, how exactly do you see it working, and how that fits with what we know.
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Thorion

Well, I started with what you said of us being made of light. Then I applied the basic knowledge that we are capable of both good and evil.

zman9000

Starting to think this topic is too complicated for this forum >_>
<_< Or this is a forum that draws Trolls in...
Check my youtube channel out for lots of cool gaming related videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/xXzman9000Xx

Thorion

It's prbably just too confusing for me.

Atrius (He/Him)

Quantum mechanics, eh?  Well, first of all, "light" is a form of electromagnetic radiation which is merely a force carried by Photons, therefore light itself cannot be considered a particle.  Going further, photons are just one type of confirmed Boson which is itself only one of two categories of currently known elementary particles, the other being Fermions.  These two categories combined contain at least 10 confirmed particles, and no less than 18 unconfirmed/theorized particles.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

Rolina

Have they found God?  Interesting video title.

No, they haven't, but they have given him a new name.  "Singularity".

ScottTheAdept

Quote from: ThorionWe're made out of good light and evil light.

I have long pondered good and evil as one cannot exist without the other and both do not know what good or evil is until contact between the two opposing views is completed. It is all a matter of perspective. For example an "evil" person may state that he is working for a better future or a common goal, and a "good" person may state the exact same. While the actions toward said "better future or common goal" may be vastly different, both sides aim to accomplish the same thing; eliminate the other side.

Therefore, we can state that both sides will stop at nothing to wipe out its opposition. The business world shows this too. So, which is good and which is evil? You decide.

EVIL?:
Think of it as this: A totally "evil" world. No "heroes" or anything to "stop an evil plot". "Crime rate" is very high with frequent thefts and deaths. The government is a dictatorship with extremely strict curfews and high taxes. If the laws are not obeyed, soldiers would kill the offender in a very brutal way. However, everyone accepts this place for what it is. Is it evil? Maybe in your eyes, but if you were to be a "hero", the denizens may try to stop you from changing their "good and perfect" world. YOU would be branded "An Evil Villain."

GOOD?:
Another example: A totally "good"" world. No "crime" of any kind. No unnatural deaths, no thefts, and no world hunger. The government is completely open to compromise and change. Is it good? Perhaps, but someone from another world may want to change this "perfect" society. The denizens wouldn't take kindly to it and brand you "An Evil Villain."

Whew... That took some time to type. Night everyone!
Here come the holidays. Shopping gets hectic round these times.

Thorion

Quote from: Role on 10, November, 2011, 09:25:21 PM
Have they found God?  Interesting video title.

No, they haven't, but they have given him a new name.  "Singularity".

Then why confuse the simple folk?

Charon

Quote from: Role on 10, November, 2011, 09:25:21 PM
No, they haven't, but they have given him a new name.  "Singularity".
Wait, God's the center of a black hole now o.o

This isn't really anything new... matter and energy are one and the same really, just different manifestations of eachother. That's what nuclear energy is possible, because some of that matter is converted into energy.

Quote from: Atrius on 10, November, 2011, 09:24:41 PM
Quantum mechanics, eh?  Well, first of all, "light" is a form of electromagnetic radiation which is merely a force carried by Photons, therefore light itself cannot be considered a particle.  Going further, photons are just one type of confirmed Boson which is itself only one of two categories of currently known elementary particles, the other being Fermions.  These two categories combined contain at least 10 confirmed particles, and no less than 18 unconfirmed/theorized particles.
Now I knew about photons... but didn't even know about the rest. Something else to read up on I spose <3

leaf

This video is such bait and switch. It talks about quantum mechanics, something most people can't even understand in the first place, then throws a ton of bullshit quotes at us from the bible suggesting that quantum mechanics is somehow supporting things from religion, when the connections they're trying to make are tangentially related at best.

Anyway, the "it doesn't follow the known laws of the universe" thing isn't saying much. It's exactly what it says on the box: things at that scale don't obey the known laws of the universe. In other words, our model works for the macro scale, but we don't yet have a suitable one for the micro scale. It isn't that what happens is impossible, but that we don't yet understand what makes it possible, and until we find a way to overcome the observer effect, we probably won't.

As for "things disappearing into nothingness," I'm not sure how you got that from the video. Could you point me to where they said that?
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

zman9000

QuoteThis isn't really anything new... matter and energy are one and the same really, just different manifestations of eachother. That's what nuclear energy is possible, because some of that matter is converted into energy.

[spoiler]The first (and best) way I was told what the atomic bomb does is, in the bomb there is a chunk of matter, and there is a small hole in it with a chunk missing, when matter is fired into that hole it creates heat, and with a few other things reacts.
(yes that's not exactly what happens but its easier to picture this way.)

the chunk of matter has every particle split and it turns into a solid chunk of pure light, heat, and other energy(like radiation).
you can think of it like taking a small chunk of the sun, compacting it a lot, and setting it free on the earth.
(chunk from the sun the size of a bowling ball, and compacting it to a ball the radius of a foot ball)

this matter is already very dense before setting it off.
(if it were a gas and you released it all at once right next to some one, if could possible kill them or at the very least knock them over and hurt them.)

the explosion acts the same way as TNT, but more efficient and volatile with the added effect of the same type of heat, light, and radiation that comes from the sun.[/spoiler]

QuoteAs for "things disappearing into nothingness," I'm not sure how you got that from the video. Could you point me to where they said that?
I think i mixed this video up and another one... the other one focused more on the details about the smallest particles... I should have posted that as well... I'll see if i can find it...
Check my youtube channel out for lots of cool gaming related videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/xXzman9000Xx

Atrius (He/Him)

Quote from: zman9000 on 11, November, 2011, 11:00:59 PMThe first (and best) way I was told what the atomic bomb does is, in the bomb there is a chunk of matter, and there is a small hole in it with a chunk missing, when matter is fired into that hole it creates heat, and with a few other things reacts.
(yes that's not exactly what happens but its easier to picture this way.)

the chunk of matter has every particle split and it turns into a solid chunk of pure light, heat, and other energy(like radiation).

What the...  Ignoring the completely incorrect description of it having a hole you fire matter into, and heat or anything like that being the primary catalyst for the reaction...  It's atoms that are splitting, not particles.  The electrons, protons, and neutrons that make up those atoms remain intact.  In fact, alpha & beta radiation are actually just very fast moving particles that escaped from the atoms during fission or decay, gamma is the only type of radiation that is energy.

To explain the energy that's generated you should know it requires energy to add particles to an atom (For simplicity's sake we'll ignore the cases where you get more back than you put in for now).  Since energy cannot be created or destroyed, once those particles are removed that energy used to hold them in is released.


All of that is for fission bombs anyway.  With fusion bombs you get into the cases where adding particles to an atom achieves a state that requires less energy to maintain, and the excess is released.


Additional fun fact:  Gamma radiation is an extremely high energy form of electromagnetic radiation, which as I said in my last post is carried by photons.  So gamma rays are made of the same fundamental forces as light, it's just way way beyond ultraviolet frequencies.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

zman9000

yes yes, I under stand all this but i said...
Quote(yes that's not exactly what happens but its easier to picture this way.)

my point in this is, I could go through and explain the details on hot the actual process is, but instead i said chunk of matter fired at another piece of matter to start it...
this is sorta true as particles are fired into the main piece of matter of the bomb, this excites the atoms, and after a few seconds one of the atoms goes... well nuclear... this causes a chain reaction setting off the rest of it. the immense energy in the main forms of light, heat, and radiation, explode out wards causing a massive blase from a small amount of matter, with very little energy used to set said matter off... this is why nuclear energy is so valuable, with controlled release of energy, it can be... in a sense... a very long lasting battery...

QuoteSince energy cannot be created or destroyed, once those particles are removed that energy used to hold them in is released.
This brings up another good point. I remember hearing that this statement came into question after a  few experiments with the new particle collider. In a few experiments some matter was unaccounted for... this means they broke down that matter to a point where physical, electromagnetic, and gravimetric form on longer exists... which means It could still be there, but can not interact with anything in the known universe. it would be something un effected my gravity, motion, and anything else... and that means we may never under stand it, because to us it doesn't even exist...
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dwkjohn

#17
here's how I see it. we are star dust. you see, hydrogen was the only element released during the big bang. gravity started to pull the gas in to clumps. over billions of years, those clumps became so dense, they pushed the hydrogen atoms together starting nuclear fusion. and creating the diversity of element we have today. the elements are all made in stars from the nuclear fusion reactions with hydrogen and the other elements.

 1              4                 0
4   H   ~~~>   He   +     2   e
 1              2                -1

all of the 92 non-transuranium elements are made from this in stars. when stars explode, the fling all of the materials made far and wide. after a few million supernovae over billions of years, planets from from the heavier elements that don't make stars because not enough hydrogen collected ro start fusion. so all the elements in your body are between 1 and 92 and all of them were made in a star. so therefore, simply put, we are star dust, bum budum bum bumbumbum. (refering to state farm: we are farmers!)

then again, I may have just misunderstood this whole topic. :/

also. Hiroshima bomb

6          2                 8
Li   +     D   ~~~>      Be
3          1                 4

just random info on hows its done.
Just sayin'.  

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zman9000

QuoteStarting to think this topic is too complicated for this forum >_>
<_< Or this is a forum that draws Trolls in...

So I think I'll give up then... it seams that what I'm trying to say isn't as easy to say as I thought...

Quotehere's how I see it. we are star dust. you see, hydrogen was the only element released dur

I read that far, then it hit me, he gets what I want out of this topic... but not quite...
stop thinking Hydrogen... what is it made out of (protons)... ok what is that made out of (quarks) ... ok what is that made out of... (at this point no one knows, which is why this is a theoretical topic, and its for you're theory about what every thing really is made of, at its base...)
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dwkjohn

#19
apologies. I posted before I watched the video. I see what u mean now. i didn't think anyone else would go that deep. this is the best topic ever this is the stuff I LOVE!!! jugs think, the empire state building. made up of mostly empty space. take that space out and boom. all that weight is smaller than a grain of rice. then again, take 1mol of hydrogen and make (somehow) each atom of the avagadro number the size of a grain of sand. it would cover the state of Texas 18,000 yards deep. so much insanity. I loves it. then there's negative energy and negative mass. and the mistake in Einstein's equation that most ppl don't know. it should be E=+/-mc^2.  the plus or minus has to be there and that created negative energy and negative mass. but that has nothing to do with this. this has got me soooo ezcited. I'm just babbling. sorry. ever heard of shrodinger's cat?
Just sayin'.  

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