Tank Support

[Rolina]

Usually when we talk about builds without much support, we're talking about mages.  But there's another build - a physical build - that doesn't get much love in GS.  The Tank.  "But wait!" you say, "What about Garet?"  Garet has the stats of a tank - high defense and HP, low speed.  And we curse him for it.  Those stats shouldn't matter as much for a tank, because that shouldn't be their primary goal.  So what is?

Cover/Counter.

Basically, the only thing we need to do is add a new spell type - target one ally, and take damage for them.  Damage taken is half what Garet would have taken, since he's taking a defensive stance... but then he counters, kind of like with Reflux.  This action alone turns Garet form worthless into a badass, and no change in speed is needed.

As for power, I suggest we have this be a multiplier style attack.  This is because, well, GS is an AoE-heavy game.  Multiple Cover/Counters per turn will not be uncommon.  Reflux's 80% sounds good for a first tier, while something like 130%/140% sounds good for a second tier verison of the spell.

What do you guys think?  Is Cover/Counter a good idea?

[RagnarokEmissary]

Nice idea, I like it. Finally a use for Garet in GS.

[Rolina]

I was just using him as an example, but if you wanna give such an ability to him, be my guest.

[Salanewt]

It depends. If it is something that is only in one or two class lines, then it will look like such an odd gimmick. If a Garet/Tank PC has it as an innate spell, then that could work... Maybe.

If this move is added by its lonesome, I would try to put it into classes that feel guard/tank-like, but only do it in a few of the classes that he/they can access. However, if added as one or two spells in a set, then it would probably work quite well.

[Rolina]

It'd need to be a spell style that's given to tank-like classes.  If the goal of the class is to be the tank of the party, then they'd learn a spell like this.  Samurai, Dragoon, and Guard lines would all learn this due to their High HP, Defense, and Low Speed - your typical tank stat layout.  Furthermore, it's not a move in and of itself - it's a move style.  The name of the move would depend on the class, and would be the Cover Move.  The counter would be separate, and would work like Reflux.

However, classes like Ninja have no business knowing this move.  Low defense/High Attack classes have different priorities.  As such, an innate spell for Garet probably wouldn't work, especially given the combat nature of the attack.  It'd be class dependent, not character dependent.  In the right class, even Isaac could use this move.

[leaf]

I think I'd like to see you build an rpg from the ground up. You come up with good ideas, but a lot of them feel out of place in GS.

If anything, it seems more like a djinni ability than a psynergy, which would admittedly be a lot less useful.

[Rolina]

Well, I'm trying to figure out a way to make slower characters/classes viable without resorting to boosting their speed.  A good idea is to approach them from a defensive aspect - Ronin has a lot of support spells, right?  Well, this would count as a support ability, so it'd fit well into it...

I suppose it could work as a djinn ability as well, but I really think it should be more class-specific instead.  That's just how I personally feel about it.

[zman9000]

I've been thinking about this.
Do we know how much each stat equals each other stat?
if not it would be a long project but we could find out, and make balancing easier and you could have both levels and monsters go go higher in a game and still have it be challenging and fun.

A good idea is to approach them from a defensive aspect

I'm planning on doing a play through with my "glass cannon" class hack where i greatly increased certain stats while lowering other stats very low. I think I'll be able to get a feel for what you are looking for from that. I'll update the version after testing it and that may (or may not) give you a base for this.

[Rolina]

The idea was to give it to all tank-type classes - Guard, Samurai, Paladin, possibly Swordsman as well.

@Z:  I have no idea what you're talking about.  Could you please be more clear?

[zman9000]

Sorry role. um... lets see.

I'm trying to figure out a way to balance stats in golden sun. and figure out through multiple play through's how much each different stat relates to each other and balance it so if you wanted to make a custom class that's on par with current classes, it would be as easy as upping a stat by a certain amount and downing another by a reflective equivalent amount. (example: 100 defense points are equal to 75 speed points and those speed points equal about 120 attack points unless above or below a certain amount)

or if that isn't clear enough.

I want to make a class formula for stats and it will include how much each stat is effective and at what range a stat is two high/overpowered or two low/under-powered, and also how you would allocate % points when changing a class without making it more or less powerful. (if you still don't understand lets just say what I'm trying to do is insane and will take a lot of work and is very complicated, so much so that I don't think anyone on the site has even tried to do it.)

As for my glass cannon hack, its in downloads. it has two classes, one has super high stats and low stats and is like Garet's class the other is the same but a high defense support mage type class.
Its only the first version so far so it will most likely be unbalanced but that's the point.

And the reason to relates to this topic is it will make balancing a tank super easy.

[Rolina]

@Zel:  I'm aware, I was talking to Zman.  It works a bit differently than FF's cover, though - after covering, you'll counter the attacker with the specific spell you used.  Think something like Reflux - each enemy that strikes gets countered, but not before taking damage in place of the ally.  Thus, Cover/Counter.

@Z:  ...This is the wrong thread for such a discussion, though.  You'll want to go to a thread which discusses statistical balance and/or weighted values for stats.