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Author Topic: If you were making a sequel...  (Read 2926 times)
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Misery
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« on: July 19, 2013, 12:41:33 PM »

For anyone new to Golden Sun, be aware that this thread will probably contain a lot of spoilers for all games in the series.

The ending of Golden Sun: The Lost Age, while concluding the main quest of the game, left players with more than a few loose threads and unanswered questions. For a time, a sequel showing the world of Weyard after the unsealing of alchemy was highly anticipated. However, when a sequel finally appeared, it was designed as a game independent of the previous two and mostly aimed at new players, and in many ways, wasn't quite what the majority of the old fanbase was hoping for.

So, if you were making a sequel to the second installment of the series while disregarding the events of the canonical sequel Dark Dawn, how would you design it? How would the story play out? This doesn't have to be ideas that could work in a hack, and it doesn't have to be related to the community project... this is essentially a brainstorming thread, and is relevant to Golden Sun in general.

I do have a few points and ideas to bring up that I have probably written down somewhere... I might post those later.

I created this topic mainly because the one in Dimensional Crisis subforum wasn't really meant for plot discussion and had an awkwardly long title. If you have an idea specifically for the community hack, it's better to present it in a new topic in Dimensional Crisis General or Storyline. But please, only do this if you have an idea you have faith in and that is developed enough to function as the basis for a game.
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 01:24:51 PM »

So you mean like an alternate future in the Gs-verse?
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Misery
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 02:17:51 PM »

So you mean like an alternate future in the Gs-verse?
Yes.

There was quite a bit of fan speculation before DD came out... I want everyone to try remembering what kind of expectations they had.
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 05:12:00 AM »


I do have a few points and ideas to bring up that I have probably written down somewhere... I might post those later.


Hey Misery, did you ever do this anywhere?
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 09:37:07 AM »

Nope, probably have it saved as an unfinished text somewhere (unfinished, or else I would have posted it). And to be bluntly honest, judging from past experience it would take more than a little luck for it to ever see the light of the world wide web. This isn't even on my list of priorities right now.

Looks like I was wrong about the spoilers, there wasn't ever much of any discussion... -_-

Something I do have planned, however, is a review for Dark Dawn, where I try to establish what I think went wrong. And of course, what the game did well too, since it does have some strong points.
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 11:37:28 PM »

Just like i said in cbox i know a group that is working on GS fan game, though the other day in conversation they give me doubts about if the project is going to continue, they have potential to do decent graphics but...
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 12:35:48 AM »

Something I do have planned, however, is a review for Dark Dawn, where I try to establish what I think went wrong. And of course, what the game did well too, since it does have some strong points.

What are the categories by which you're going to come at the game?  I'd ask questions about stuff like lore, and continuation/evolution of the theme.


Just like i said in cbox i know a group that is working on GS fan game, though the other day in conversation they give me doubts about if the project is going to continue, they have potential to do decent graphics but...

What do you think are the key reasons why the project won't continue?
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 01:44:00 AM »

I have not looked into that group or fan game... but random theories I come up with is lack of interest from the general community. (AKA: Communities are small and there's not many developers?  Although, GSHC is the only GS community in which I am active in.), and too much work than it is worth.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 01:47:37 AM by Teawater » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 03:09:32 AM »

Honestly, I'd make a prequel instead. A sequel of the games would only drive the game forward by letting us see what the world looks like now that alchemy is available for everyone and not just a few select clans guarding its secrets, but a prequel would do just about the same job but better.

The prequel we already know how it will end, alchemy is sealed after someone tries to get their hands on the Sage of Stones and become God (if you ever watched/read FullMetal Alchemist, this could give you an idea), but the prequel would be more about the journey than the destination, which is one of the strengths of the Lost Age which has amazing world exploration, you could put amazing things in a highly technological world (but with alchemy/GS flavour to it) and build an impressive world if you have the imagination for it.

A sequel only shows you how people are adapting to their new possibilities and what they are doing with it, which in DD case: Some people are furrier and there's a evil empyror on a blimp. You also get a vague glimpse when the purpose of Luna Tower is revealed to Adepts trying to go beyond the four elements to attain God-like powers (which completely undermines the original games' making a huge deal about the Stone of Sages to be honest). But in the prequel you can show this in its splendor (Except I wouldn't put Luna Tower in it.

Thing is though, I think the prequel is a more high risk/high reward thing, if you don't give the player a world impressive enough to explore and a plot that doesn't properly take their attention from the end result (alchemy is sealed, world is saved for now) and put their focus on being unpredictable on how it will get there, then it will be worse than a bad sequel IMO.

Also you mention disregarding Dark Dawn, which actually even in a prequel I would do so. No Ei Jei nonsense, no Light, no Dark. Like I said above, no Luna Tower, perhaps just a nod here and there to it and other DD elements, but nothing that could impact the world. Also Psyenergy Vortexes or a generic evil empyror which diverts from the theme the games have about the villains residing in a gray area.

I'm probably gonna do a topic about it.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 03:24:28 AM by Radamanthys » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 06:33:50 PM »

Alright, so this old topic. Before Dark Dawn came out, I was hoping that a potential sequel would head in one of two directions:

-Alchemy was not meant to be sealed forever, but only those who could pass all the trials (as the player does) would be allowed to unseal it, having proven their ability to protect the world from those forces. Following the events of The Lost Age, all hell breaks loose around the world as a result of alchemy returning, and the plot would be centered around creating order in that world.

-A story taking place in a rather distant future, a new "Golden Age" where the names of the former heroes are at best mentioned in stories, if at all. This could be a very different type of game. It might be very similar to a prequel, considering.

I've been toying with the idea of a prequel as well. The main obstacle I've come across is "what was the world like before the lighthouses were built?". What do they do, exactly? They can't have been built to channel the "power" of alchemy into the world, because that's supposedly the power they were built with, not to mention the world wouldn't have functioned properly before they were built. The only answer I can think of, then, is that they were built as a means to seal alchemy... but how would they be able to build them then, considering those who wanted alchemy to remain in the world? I doubt they were built overnight in secret.

Also you mention disregarding Dark Dawn, which actually even in a prequel I would do so. No Ei Jei nonsense, no Light, no Dark. Like I said above, no Luna Tower, perhaps just a nod here and there to it and other DD elements, but nothing that could impact the world. Also Psyenergy Vortexes or a generic evil empyror which diverts from the theme the games have about the villains residing in a gray area.
Personally I think the lore in Dark Dawn was a completely unecessary retcon out of nowhere. It doesn't contradict anything as far as I know, but since it's never mentioned or acknowledged in the earlier games it feels like something they pulled out of their @#$.
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 08:00:21 PM »

The deal with the lighthouses, I think we can agree on two things: 1) that there was alchemy in the world before the lighthouses, as building them (and the puzzles inside them) would've required a great deal of alchemy.

2) I think we can agree on is that the lighthouses were designed with these three functions in mind: to let alchemy flow or seal it, and to create the stone of sages. If they only wanted to seal alchemy, why let it flow again or let it have the means to build the stone (which is what they wanted to desperately prevent)? Or if the purpose was to create the stone, why design it with the function to seal alchemy from the world?

That's a starting point I think we can base ourselves to build our theories. Here's mine: I think the locations where the lighthouses were built on used to be natural wonders where alchemy concentrated and manifested strongly (like the Element Rocks, but stronger) and these natural wonders already functioned like how the lighthouses function in the present day, that is providing alchemy and sustain into the world (so that'd be my way to explain #1 above). So perhaps the lighthouses were built on top of those places.

As for point #2, my theory is that the lighthouses were built to be sort of like water taps, you close it and there's no water, you open it and water comes to you (rather than having to extract it yourself from the water well as they probably used alchemy before), and a third function: Open the tap all the way and water comes in greater quantities with increased pressure (and this nets you the Stone of Sages). Perhaps the designer behind the lighthouses conned each of the clans/nations/whatever that the lighthouses would allow them to prosper even more and secretly put that feature in to make the stone of sages, though the other day I realized Anemos would've caught wind of this and been able to see through the deception by foresight and mind reading if someone approached them with plans to make Jupiter Lighthouse, so they might've been on it, being the one major state that jumped ship and fled when the world fell into disaster.


Personally I think the lore in Dark Dawn was a completely unecessary retcon out of nowhere. It doesn't contradict anything as far as I know, but since it's never mentioned or acknowledged in the earlier games it feels like something they pulled out of their @#$.

Thats what probably bothered me most out of everything, supposedly the excuse was that there are many more towns in the world than the heroes visit we just don't see them because the heroes don't need to, like you never saw Ayuthai in the first game because you were too busy trying to get across the Lamankan Desert, but ugh it just seems like a weak excuse to me, it really is an @#$ pull on camelot's part
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 08:03:17 PM by Radamanthys » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 10:56:14 PM »

Hmm, I guess the lighthouses can be explained by saying that to create the stone of sages, it was necessary to focus/seal the power into the elemental stars. I think that's the key here, the power once flowed freely throughout the world, but was sealed by the actions of man. If the lighthouses themselves were the seal, one could simply destroy them.
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 11:21:16 PM »

Hmm, I guess the lighthouses can be explained by saying that to create the stone of sages, it was necessary to focus/seal the power into the elemental stars. I think that's the key here, the power once flowed freely throughout the world, but was sealed by the actions of man. If the lighthouses themselves were the seal, one could simply destroy them.

That would also fall in line a bit more with the tempering the Wise One did on the Mars star to put a wrench in Alex' plans
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Yesterday at 07:26:16 PM
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Yesterday at 07:24:28 PM
Fox: So like (path) 0 text=(address) char=(address) len=(number) ; (path) 1 free=(address) ; Or something. But that's just a quick example.
Yesterday at 06:59:14 PM
Fox: Hopefully. I was wanting to make it so you could put in the addresses/etc. as one of the arguments in the path. Hm?
Yesterday at 03:37:07 PM
KyleRunner: Nice! I hope you'll add compatibility with others games (GS1, Mario Golf and Tennis) soon.
January 14, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
Fox: Okay. Posted (in Downloads section) an initial cutdown version for now, for my text compressor. Basically to separate the code from my Editor for anyone who wants to mess with it. It only supports GS2, because I still didn't add the addresses/etc. for the other games.
January 14, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
Fox: Okay! Going to need to think how I want it to work. Initial thoughts is maybe have a number of arguments in the filepath thing. And have a number of shortcuts (files) to be used as examples. Assuming there are no problems.
January 14, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
KyleRunner: Well... I'm used to editing text ina a text editor, so... yes! Thanks in advance!
January 13, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
Fox: (Text editor = Text Document like notepad.)
January 13, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Fox: Would you prefer during the text editing in a text editor? (Like what gstoolkit lets you do?) I could probably make a separate tool or something to compress it.
January 13, 2018, 10:10:02 PM
KyleRunner: Ok. Once I finish my Lost Age translation, I'll try a Mario Golf one. Thanks. (But I'll need help).
January 13, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Fox: If you want to make it "permanent" (part of a hack), then you'd edit code in the ROM that writes to this location of the IDs you'd want to change. (You can find these locations by using a breakpoint debugger like SDL-H or no$gba.)
January 13, 2018, 10:00:11 PM
Fox: Reload/switch = Recommended to be done through Debug mode/warp menu, ofcourse... since doors seem to appear as if they were disabled? ; 03001238:01 and B+Start to get to warp menu.
January 13, 2018, 09:55:39 PM
Fox: @Kyle Runner = It might be, but you'd have to use the correct addresses for Mario Golf, rather than for GS2 as I have it right now. ; @raijinken = Yes. 02000454 = ID of leader. (Change this and reload/switch room you are in, enjoy.)
January 13, 2018, 02:23:29 PM
raijinken: Hey guys, is it possible to somehow change the lead character on the map? Was wondering. I remember there was a cheat to use Jenna, but what if I wanted Isaac, or Piers?
January 13, 2018, 02:10:03 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, Fox *
January 13, 2018, 02:09:37 PM
KyleRunner: Hey, is your text editor compatible with Mario Golf (GBA)?
January 11, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Fox: But if it isn't an oversight, I still can't imagine it being that useful.
January 11, 2018, 08:28:24 PM
Fox: part, ofcourse.
January 11, 2018, 08:28:15 PM
Fox: 0200274C = Hmm... Stuff happens here when you use Cyclone around bushes. (These cause tile replacements, and setting event 0 to those tiles.) - And I guess this kept here so it can be scanned after battle. (To re-update the map.) So here is my fun thought (assuming if it is even possible, or even convenient if so.) ... Are there any events from other maps that could be disabled do to using Cyclone on bushes + Retreat glitch? I'll need to do some testing to make sure this isn't an oversight on my
January 09, 2018, 08:09:26 PM
Fox: And the chance for a Djinni battle is 50%.

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