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Author Topic: To Kill a Something  (Read 13551 times)
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Fox
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« on: March 21, 2014, 02:42:25 PM »

This topic is here to discuss when you think killing is appropriate. (Awful topic idea... but...)

(Edit:  Here are some example questions you can choose to answer. You may leave some out, change some of them, or add your own.)
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both? (Edit: How about crickets/roaches, flies, ants, spiders, mosquitoes, gnats, etc?)
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)

-If you died, how would you like to be dealt with? (Ex: Burial via coffin, mausoleum, cremation? ; Perhaps given to science?)
-Where would you want your assets to go to? (Government, charity, loved ones, etc?)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 08:49:55 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 04:19:08 AM »

Hm, I don't know if/when killing should be something done personally (out of love or hate), and when clinical action (with a view to outcomes) should be done.  I err on the side of personal relations, where love may prevail over false ideology.  Then again, that's how I make my all my moral decisions: Love over ideology.
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Fox
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 12:22:08 PM »

-I don't think people should be killed because of love or hate. (Depending on situation.)
-I feel that for clinical action, it should primarily be up to the victim when possible.

I forgot to add two more questions:
-Should a person trying to commit suicide be restrained to keep themselves from doing so? (They may have anxiety/depression/other mental disorders/illnesses.)
-If someone asked for you to kill them, should you? (Even if serious?)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 12:38:38 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 03:25:31 PM »

by "clinical," I meant stuff like targeted assassinations that weren't carried out for personal reasons.
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 10:09:00 PM »

-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
No on random killing. Sacrifice is okay if everyone is consenting (in cultures where humans were sacrificed it was not uncommon for the sacrificed individual to take it on with glory).

-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Yes, in many cases. After the start of the third trimester it is dangerous though and you kind of had 6 months to do something about it anyways.

-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
I don't agree with capital punishment at all so no.

-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
I don't agree with capital punishment.

-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
I don't agree with capital punishment and such a term is very subjective. In my opinion killing them should be a last ditch effort, and that should be after they caused a hella lot of trouble. What would be better is stopping them in their tracks, but this is not always possible.

-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
Yes if they choose to do it. If they say yes, then let them die.
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Fox
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 10:43:08 PM »

Thanks. I probably should say that there is this show called The Following... There's a character named Joe Carroll who tries to get a large group of people to believe that by killing people, you are giving them a precious gift... The characters who do the killing usually tell their victims "No redemption without blood." ; Any smart person wouldn't fall for something like that. (I mean, even if it is a precious gift, that doesn't mean you should kill them.)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 10:54:30 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 11:47:31 PM »

-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
NO, all random Killing are immoral to me

-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Yes, but it is not like abortion is a good thing, in medicine, there is not good thing, there is just the lesser evil. if you wan to limit abortion, then start child benefits, mainly for low-income, with day-care centers for young-mothers, if they have no reason to abort, they won't abort. yeah that cost, may even cost increase in taxes...

-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
I don't believe in death penalty, beside, you can't undo a mistake, with a new mistake.

-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
no, after
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
what are you talking about.. I don't agree with capital punishment. those guy need t be reeducated or kept away form society, maybe, but we should give them the right to chance. for the best

-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
yes, if they do not want to suffer and they want a peacefull, let them be,
Raymond Gravel knew he would die, he was in terminal phase, he was only scared to suffer.
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 12:29:28 AM »

Quote
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
...That's a loaded question if I've ever heard one.  I don't think killing is ever "random" - things tend to happen for reasons, even if those reasons happen to be petty.

Quote
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Oh, that's a touchy subject.  I believe that they're unnecessary, but that the ideal replacement - adoption - is so broken and corrupt in the US that the argument of "mercy killing" may in fact be a strong one.  Personally, I think the whole "prolife/prochoice" thing is bullshit.  Pro-life peeps are often also pro-death penalty and tend to lean more towards war-favoring factions in the political system, so they really can't claim they're "pro life" in my eyes.  Pro Choice is equally bullshit.  Why?  We have a choice.  We can choose whether or not to have sex, to have protection on the male, protection on us, the morning after pill, and even adoption.  So that claim is a lie as well.

There are two factors that need to be seriously addressed, though.  The first is male-side abortion - when a man will just run off and leave the woman to raise the kid herself.  I don't think the current child support laws are harsh enough - should the guy just bail, I personally believe that there should be serious consequences, even jail time.  We can't just pin everything on us women, and the societal belief that women are in charge of raising kids is still causing issues in that regard, such as courts favoring mothers in divorce cases.  Second is adoption.  Adoption is, in essence, an option that makes both sides happy.  Those who don't want to kill the kid get to have the kid life.  Those who don't want to raise the kid don't have to.  The problem with adoption is the horrible nightmare that is the foster care system.  That needs to be reformed and overhauled.  Once that happens, and once we start forcing men to take responsibility for their action, I see this being an easy solution to what should for all purposes be a non-issue.  Don't want to raise a kid?  Fine.  Give it to someone who wants to, but can't.  Like a gay couple.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
To kill traitors?  Oh hell yes.  Edward Snowden?  Oh hell no.  He's not a traitor, but rather is a whistle-blower - someone whom called the government out on their blatant abuses of power and outright violation of the Constitution.  The man should be a hero, and those in charge of what happened and in the know are the ones guilty of treason.  To me, corruption in the federal government, as well as blatant abuses of power, are equivalent to high treason, and people on both sides of the isle need to be made to face the consequences of their actions.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
Freedom of religion.  Not my call as to whether they're true or false.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
No.  Surprised?  Well, you shouldn't be.  This question is abusable as hell - after all, I could deem anyone I wanted to be a threat to mankind, and have them killed for it.  As for the second part, you shouldn't punish someone if they haven't committed a crime.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
So, mercy killing and assisted suicide?  ...Touchy subject, but... yes.  If they don't want to exist, that's their prerogative. 
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 06:36:10 AM »

I came into this topic thinking it was about literature (if you've ever heard of To Kill A Mockingbird, you'd understand why).

That aside, I surprisingly agree with most of what role said. I don't particularly have any opinions on treason, though. If your loyalties lie with another country, so be it. Just be prepared to deal with military law if you get caught. It is, after all, largely an issue of military secrecy when it is invoked.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 08:58:07 PM »

Quote
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
...That's a loaded question if I've ever heard one.  I don't think killing is ever "random" - things tend to happen for reasons, even if those reasons happen to be petty.

This mean the reason you kill an animal is for fun or for commercial purpose, but at the very least, it is not an usefull kill, you don't kill to eat, but for fun, because it would be your right to kill an animalk, I always oppose it.

Quote
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Oh, that's a touchy subject.  I believe that they're unnecessary, but that the ideal replacement - adoption - is so broken and corrupt in the US that the argument of "mercy killing" may in fact be a strong one.  Personally, I think the whole "prolife/prochoice" thing is bullshit.  Pro-life peeps are often also pro-death penalty and tend to lean more towards war-favoring factions in the political system, so they really can't claim they're "pro life" in my eyes.  Pro Choice is equally bullshit.  Why?  We have a choice.  We can choose whether or not to have sex, to have protection on the male, protection on us, the morning after pill, and even adoption.  So that claim is a lie as well.

There are two factors that need to be seriously addressed, though.  The first is male-side abortion - when a man will just run off and leave the woman to raise the kid herself.  I don't think the current child support laws are harsh enough - should the guy just bail, I personally believe that there should be serious consequences, even jail time.  We can't just pin everything on us women, and the societal belief that women are in charge of raising kids is still causing issues in that regard, such as courts favoring mothers in divorce cases.  Second is adoption.  Adoption is, in essence, an option that makes both sides happy.  Those who don't want to kill the kid get to have the kid life.  Those who don't want to raise the kid don't have to.  The problem with adoption is the horrible nightmare that is the foster care system.  That needs to be reformed and overhauled.  Once that happens, and once we start forcing men to take responsibility for their action, I see this being an easy solution to what should for all purposes be a non-issue.  Don't want to raise a kid?  Fine.  Give it to someone who wants to, but can't.  Like a gay couple.

While I understand your story on abortion, pro-choice is given the right to a woman to deny what is happening in her body, give her the choice to not be a mother, you can't ask for them to not have sex, woman claim the right to have sex for pleasure only, they reclaim the right to have orgasm, not to only have sex for procreation.

your issus on the man leaving the mother is not related to abortion, direction, it is male not wanting to take their responsibility as fathers and I agree, that is not acceptable, if we have sex with girl, and we have children, we need to accept responsibility, after all, if i don't want children, I should always tell you before the start of the relation, at the risk of breaking it, but it should be clear. A woman have the right to know her companion does not want children, so if she want one, that guy is not good for her...
second lines, how I would approve feotus teleportation of unborn child into willing women, man I would yes anytime, and to large scale adoption program, problems, that come with a state service and cost taxes.. while I am ready to pay them, I don't think all american are ready to pay them, too much, me myself and I

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
To kill traitors?  Oh hell yes.  Edward Snowden?  Oh hell no.  He's not a traitor, but rather is a whistle-blower - someone whom called the government out on their blatant abuses of power and outright violation of the Constitution.  The man should be a hero, and those in charge of what happened and in the know are the ones guilty of treason.  To me, corruption in the federal government, as well as blatant abuses of power, are equivalent to high treason, and people on both sides of the isle need to be made to face the consequences of their actions.
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 

Quote
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
Freedom of religion.  Not my call as to whether they're true or false.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
No.  Surprised?  Well, you shouldn't be.  This question is abusable as hell - after all, I could deem anyone I wanted to be a threat to mankind, and have them killed for it.  As for the second part, you shouldn't punish someone if they haven't committed a crime.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
So, mercy killing and assisted suicide?  ...Touchy subject, but... yes.  If they don't want to exist, that's their prerogative. 
[/quote]
I have no objection here, we agree on these, but no for the same reason.
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Fox
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 01:41:01 AM »

Quote
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 
The question is whether you'd undo any future-doing wrong that could happen with others... since if they knew that the consequences of their actions were taken seriously, then...
(And also to eliminate any thoughts from anyone planning a rescue operation if you jailed them or something? Although, I could probably leave this one out.)

And yeah, I look at the Ed as a hero as well... (I know that we all make mistakes, but the fact that he tried to make things fair tells everything, or something like that.) If I was implying otherwise, then I messed up my wording. Meh. Me and my wording...


@threat to mankind: Maybe "attempted murder" is what I meant?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 01:54:04 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 03:05:32 PM »

Quote
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 
The question is whether you'd undo any future-doing wrong that could happen with others... since if they knew that the consequences of their actions were taken seriously, then...
(And also to eliminate any thoughts from anyone planning a rescue operation if you jailed them or something? Although, I could probably leave this one out.)

And yeah, I look at the Ed as a hero as well... (I know that we all make mistakes, but the fact that he tried to make things fair tells everything, or something like that.) If I was implying otherwise, then I messed up my wording. Meh. Me and my wording...


@threat to mankind: Maybe "attempted murder" is what I meant?


there is little evidence that the death penalty is effective to prevent murder or crimes, at the very best, it has no effect, when people want to commit a crime, the death penalty will play no factor on the decision, if that the reason you use to justify it, you might as well give up, because it does not work. Not only the death penalty will not stop a crime, but it will prevent you from undoing a judicial mistake, in the case where you judge and killed the wrong person, you've kill a innocent person.

you should always to people a chance to defend themselves. I prefer to see 4 criminal in liberty then a single innocent on the death chair. personally.
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Fox
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 02:01:11 AM »

@Death penalty / "give up": While the question should not have implied that I was choosing a side... I still wonder about it having no effect? (And instead, be a small factor that's not strong enough to sway their decision.)  Generally, I would have preferred some sources... (I know there are some examples like the Boston Bombings with the Russian brothers.... but I would have assumed this didn't apply to every person in the world. Or at least, not right away, anyway. ... In thought that even just a few seconds could spare someone's life, then... Well, maybe I'm just fantasizing.. )
Either way, I don't have anything to support mine at the moment, and I'll just "give up" because I feel that this is not a topic I'd want to waste a lot of time with...

So does the average person prefer dying than going to jail?
Is the death penalty cheaper than holding someone in jail for life?

Quote
I prefer to see 4 criminal in liberty then a single innocent on the death chair. personally.
Assuming you're talking about the "worst" type of criminal, it would be pretty sad if the 4 criminals killed the one innocent, and then some... Even worse if they did it through seemingly unending torture, and at the same time creating a public scare...
Not sure what to do with them? Put them on meds, and let them be, I guess.

And then there's the question with how people see others? (For example, the two extremes below...  These are best answered as "no.", but the second one might be "on the safe side."...)
- Do most people think others see things in a similar way as themselves if they don't put much thought into it? (Even via something like a subconcious habit?)
- Or do they often feel like the odd ball where no one will ever agree with them?

...but ofcourse, that's going off-topic.

---
Oh, and I never answered my own questions in my first post... but most of those "defensive" strategies are the ones I'd go with.  I probably should have said the questions were somewhat rhetorical, and meant to give examples on what to talk about in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 03:20:48 AM by Fox » Logged

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Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 12:03:41 AM »

So Darkylighty, let me get this straight - because I'm a woman who uses this magical thing we call LOGIC to say "I have plenty of choices, and I FREAKING USE THEM", that means I don't have a right to talk?  Am I not female enough for you that you chose to exclude me from my own gender and talk down to me?  To try to explain I have rights that, well, I exorcize all the time, despite what your claims of my "beliefs" may be?

Did I seriously hear you talk down to me about the rights of women?  Did I seriously see you point by point try to counter my views on this and all the rest of these things?

RTFP, dood.  RTFP.  And next time, know who you're replying to.  At this rate, I'm going to have to explain to you how lesbians work after you accuse me of being a homophobe.

Also, the whole "living in the past" thing is NOT the point of the death penalty.  The penalty is to actually PREVENT the crimes from occurring in the first place.  If you don't make do on threats, they have no power.  That's why the death penalty exists - killing another will result in society killing you back.  Betraying your people will result in your people offing your head. Wrong people, and expect to be wronged back.  These are powerful motivators to get people to follow the rule of law.  If the punishment for betraying my country was a few years in jail, I'd look for the highest bidder.  But it's death - meaning if I get caught, I'm screwed.  So I don't do it - it's not worth the risk.  Before you condemn stuff, stop and ask yourself why these things exist in the first place.

Also, you know those states where murder will cost you 30 years?  For some of the people I've dealt with, that'd be worth it.  The punishment must fit the crime, for two reasons - first to prevent cruelty, but also to encourage prevention.

Finally:

Quote
This mean the reason you kill an animal is for fun or for commercial purpose, but at the very least, it is not an usefull kill, you don't kill to eat, but for fun, because it would be your right to kill an animalk, I always oppose it.
What the hell are you trying to imply here?  If you're making a general statement, do not quote me as though it's a retort.  Nobody implied they had a right to kill anything.  I was merely pointing out the flaws in the question itself - there's no such thing as "random killing".  There is always a reason.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:09:29 AM by Rolina » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 11:41:14 AM »

"There is always a reason" Yep! Even if it's for fun. ; By random killing, I think I meant to say killing people who are probably unwilling to die, and don't deserve it/didn't do anything wrong. ; And that the perpetrator picks a guy they don't know on the same day they kill them... or something. (Probably a reference to a show I watched ~years ago called The Following.)

Don't forget that there could be somewhat legitimate reasons for this as well... For example, low food supply.  So you put people's names in a bag, and draw one out...

I would also mention a party game called Mafia, but not sure if it's good enough.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:09:51 PM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
Maybe that's the wrong kind of force. *smirk*
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December 09, 2018, 07:43:31 PM
Fox: A banana for you, a banana for me, let's all open a banana and enjoy!
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Drake baku: ba... ba.... bana.... bana.... banana.... nanananananananana..... and now back to doing normal, kinda
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Luna_blade: Hey I forgot the christmas theme
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zman9000: ded
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Drake baku: Good day to ya all
October 30, 2018, 09:45:58 PM
Atrius: There used to be where I got the battle sprites for Kraden, but that site doesn't exist any more.
October 26, 2018, 01:31:40 PM
Infitek: Do you know if there any custom Alex battle sprites available on the internet ?
October 26, 2018, 01:31:01 PM
Infitek: Hey everyone
October 13, 2018, 03:23:06 AM
Salanewt: Updated it to provide more info that I forgot to mention.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:48 AM
Salanewt: I'm still trying to iron out IQ 2 but I'm pretty sure it's entirely random targeting.
October 13, 2018, 03:16:29 AM
Salanewt: Oh yeah, I posted some more info about enemy IQ.
October 12, 2018, 09:51:27 PM
FoxThe HTML5 project is too small to count
October 12, 2018, 06:19:48 AM
Luna_blade: there is jjppof's html5 project...
October 12, 2018, 06:19:17 AM
Luna_blade: Though Momo rings a bell it seems I came here after you left
October 11, 2018, 12:49:41 AM
Fox: (If that makes sense.)
October 11, 2018, 12:48:33 AM
Fox: Yeah, I guess so.  More just saying that's a good place to get answers to GS related questions at the moment.
October 11, 2018, 12:42:28 AM
Crystal Sonata: I did before, but I guess I could try it again
October 11, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
Fox: Not much at the moment. This forum seems pretty quiet. Perhaps you'd be interested in joining the Discord for GSHC that seems to have more activity?
October 10, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Crystal Sonata: Any projects going on? I need a distraction from the daily grind and I'm interested in hacking GS again.
October 10, 2018, 10:02:53 PM
Fox: Thanks, and good to see you too!

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