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Fox
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« on: March 21, 2014, 02:42:25 PM »

This topic is here to discuss when you think killing is appropriate. (Awful topic idea... but...)

(Edit:  Here are some example questions you can choose to answer. You may leave some out, change some of them, or add your own.)
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both? (Edit: How about crickets/roaches, flies, ants, spiders, mosquitoes, gnats, etc?)
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)

-If you died, how would you like to be dealt with? (Ex: Burial via coffin, mausoleum, cremation? ; Perhaps given to science?)
-Where would you want your assets to go to? (Government, charity, loved ones, etc?)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 08:49:55 AM by Fox » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 04:19:08 AM »

Hm, I don't know if/when killing should be something done personally (out of love or hate), and when clinical action (with a view to outcomes) should be done.  I err on the side of personal relations, where love may prevail over false ideology.  Then again, that's how I make my all my moral decisions: Love over ideology.
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Fox
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 12:22:08 PM »

-I don't think people should be killed because of love or hate. (Depending on situation.)
-I feel that for clinical action, it should primarily be up to the victim when possible.

I forgot to add two more questions:
-Should a person trying to commit suicide be restrained to keep themselves from doing so? (They may have anxiety/depression/other mental disorders/illnesses.)
-If someone asked for you to kill them, should you? (Even if serious?)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 12:38:38 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 03:25:31 PM »

by "clinical," I meant stuff like targeted assassinations that weren't carried out for personal reasons.
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 10:09:00 PM »

-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
No on random killing. Sacrifice is okay if everyone is consenting (in cultures where humans were sacrificed it was not uncommon for the sacrificed individual to take it on with glory).

-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Yes, in many cases. After the start of the third trimester it is dangerous though and you kind of had 6 months to do something about it anyways.

-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
I don't agree with capital punishment at all so no.

-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
I don't agree with capital punishment.

-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
I don't agree with capital punishment and such a term is very subjective. In my opinion killing them should be a last ditch effort, and that should be after they caused a hella lot of trouble. What would be better is stopping them in their tracks, but this is not always possible.

-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
Yes if they choose to do it. If they say yes, then let them die.
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Fox
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 10:43:08 PM »

Thanks. I probably should say that there is this show called The Following... There's a character named Joe Carroll who tries to get a large group of people to believe that by killing people, you are giving them a precious gift... The characters who do the killing usually tell their victims "No redemption without blood." ; Any smart person wouldn't fall for something like that. (I mean, even if it is a precious gift, that doesn't mean you should kill them.)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 10:54:30 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 11:47:31 PM »

-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
NO, all random Killing are immoral to me

-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Yes, but it is not like abortion is a good thing, in medicine, there is not good thing, there is just the lesser evil. if you wan to limit abortion, then start child benefits, mainly for low-income, with day-care centers for young-mothers, if they have no reason to abort, they won't abort. yeah that cost, may even cost increase in taxes...

-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
I don't believe in death penalty, beside, you can't undo a mistake, with a new mistake.

-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
no, after
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
what are you talking about.. I don't agree with capital punishment. those guy need t be reeducated or kept away form society, maybe, but we should give them the right to chance. for the best

-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
yes, if they do not want to suffer and they want a peacefull, let them be,
Raymond Gravel knew he would die, he was in terminal phase, he was only scared to suffer.
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 12:29:28 AM »

Quote
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
...That's a loaded question if I've ever heard one.  I don't think killing is ever "random" - things tend to happen for reasons, even if those reasons happen to be petty.

Quote
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Oh, that's a touchy subject.  I believe that they're unnecessary, but that the ideal replacement - adoption - is so broken and corrupt in the US that the argument of "mercy killing" may in fact be a strong one.  Personally, I think the whole "prolife/prochoice" thing is bullshit.  Pro-life peeps are often also pro-death penalty and tend to lean more towards war-favoring factions in the political system, so they really can't claim they're "pro life" in my eyes.  Pro Choice is equally bullshit.  Why?  We have a choice.  We can choose whether or not to have sex, to have protection on the male, protection on us, the morning after pill, and even adoption.  So that claim is a lie as well.

There are two factors that need to be seriously addressed, though.  The first is male-side abortion - when a man will just run off and leave the woman to raise the kid herself.  I don't think the current child support laws are harsh enough - should the guy just bail, I personally believe that there should be serious consequences, even jail time.  We can't just pin everything on us women, and the societal belief that women are in charge of raising kids is still causing issues in that regard, such as courts favoring mothers in divorce cases.  Second is adoption.  Adoption is, in essence, an option that makes both sides happy.  Those who don't want to kill the kid get to have the kid life.  Those who don't want to raise the kid don't have to.  The problem with adoption is the horrible nightmare that is the foster care system.  That needs to be reformed and overhauled.  Once that happens, and once we start forcing men to take responsibility for their action, I see this being an easy solution to what should for all purposes be a non-issue.  Don't want to raise a kid?  Fine.  Give it to someone who wants to, but can't.  Like a gay couple.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
To kill traitors?  Oh hell yes.  Edward Snowden?  Oh hell no.  He's not a traitor, but rather is a whistle-blower - someone whom called the government out on their blatant abuses of power and outright violation of the Constitution.  The man should be a hero, and those in charge of what happened and in the know are the ones guilty of treason.  To me, corruption in the federal government, as well as blatant abuses of power, are equivalent to high treason, and people on both sides of the isle need to be made to face the consequences of their actions.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
Freedom of religion.  Not my call as to whether they're true or false.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
No.  Surprised?  Well, you shouldn't be.  This question is abusable as hell - after all, I could deem anyone I wanted to be a threat to mankind, and have them killed for it.  As for the second part, you shouldn't punish someone if they haven't committed a crime.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
So, mercy killing and assisted suicide?  ...Touchy subject, but... yes.  If they don't want to exist, that's their prerogative. 
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 06:36:10 AM »

I came into this topic thinking it was about literature (if you've ever heard of To Kill A Mockingbird, you'd understand why).

That aside, I surprisingly agree with most of what role said. I don't particularly have any opinions on treason, though. If your loyalties lie with another country, so be it. Just be prepared to deal with military law if you get caught. It is, after all, largely an issue of military secrecy when it is invoked.
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[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 08:58:07 PM »

Quote
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?
...That's a loaded question if I've ever heard one.  I don't think killing is ever "random" - things tend to happen for reasons, even if those reasons happen to be petty.

This mean the reason you kill an animal is for fun or for commercial purpose, but at the very least, it is not an usefull kill, you don't kill to eat, but for fun, because it would be your right to kill an animalk, I always oppose it.

Quote
-Do you believe in abortions? (If so, to what limit?)
Oh, that's a touchy subject.  I believe that they're unnecessary, but that the ideal replacement - adoption - is so broken and corrupt in the US that the argument of "mercy killing" may in fact be a strong one.  Personally, I think the whole "prolife/prochoice" thing is bullshit.  Pro-life peeps are often also pro-death penalty and tend to lean more towards war-favoring factions in the political system, so they really can't claim they're "pro life" in my eyes.  Pro Choice is equally bullshit.  Why?  We have a choice.  We can choose whether or not to have sex, to have protection on the male, protection on us, the morning after pill, and even adoption.  So that claim is a lie as well.

There are two factors that need to be seriously addressed, though.  The first is male-side abortion - when a man will just run off and leave the woman to raise the kid herself.  I don't think the current child support laws are harsh enough - should the guy just bail, I personally believe that there should be serious consequences, even jail time.  We can't just pin everything on us women, and the societal belief that women are in charge of raising kids is still causing issues in that regard, such as courts favoring mothers in divorce cases.  Second is adoption.  Adoption is, in essence, an option that makes both sides happy.  Those who don't want to kill the kid get to have the kid life.  Those who don't want to raise the kid don't have to.  The problem with adoption is the horrible nightmare that is the foster care system.  That needs to be reformed and overhauled.  Once that happens, and once we start forcing men to take responsibility for their action, I see this being an easy solution to what should for all purposes be a non-issue.  Don't want to raise a kid?  Fine.  Give it to someone who wants to, but can't.  Like a gay couple.

While I understand your story on abortion, pro-choice is given the right to a woman to deny what is happening in her body, give her the choice to not be a mother, you can't ask for them to not have sex, woman claim the right to have sex for pleasure only, they reclaim the right to have orgasm, not to only have sex for procreation.

your issus on the man leaving the mother is not related to abortion, direction, it is male not wanting to take their responsibility as fathers and I agree, that is not acceptable, if we have sex with girl, and we have children, we need to accept responsibility, after all, if i don't want children, I should always tell you before the start of the relation, at the risk of breaking it, but it should be clear. A woman have the right to know her companion does not want children, so if she want one, that guy is not good for her...
second lines, how I would approve feotus teleportation of unborn child into willing women, man I would yes anytime, and to large scale adoption program, problems, that come with a state service and cost taxes.. while I am ready to pay them, I don't think all american are ready to pay them, too much, me myself and I

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason? (How about depending on if it was trying to hurt the Gov't or not?) Think about Edward Snowden, except, I don't think he meant to actually hurt the Gov't?
To kill traitors?  Oh hell yes.  Edward Snowden?  Oh hell no.  He's not a traitor, but rather is a whistle-blower - someone whom called the government out on their blatant abuses of power and outright violation of the Constitution.  The man should be a hero, and those in charge of what happened and in the know are the ones guilty of treason.  To me, corruption in the federal government, as well as blatant abuses of power, are equivalent to high treason, and people on both sides of the isle need to be made to face the consequences of their actions.
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 

Quote
-Do you believe in killing false prophets? (Not sure if I should put this bullet here, but going to ask, anyway.)
Freedom of religion.  Not my call as to whether they're true or false.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind? (Even if they haven't killed anyone, yet?)
No.  Surprised?  Well, you shouldn't be.  This question is abusable as hell - after all, I could deem anyone I wanted to be a threat to mankind, and have them killed for it.  As for the second part, you shouldn't punish someone if they haven't committed a crime.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway? (So that they won't have to live with the pain of whatever the are dying from.)
So, mercy killing and assisted suicide?  ...Touchy subject, but... yes.  If they don't want to exist, that's their prerogative. 
[/quote]
I have no objection here, we agree on these, but no for the same reason.
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Fox
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 01:41:01 AM »

Quote
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 
The question is whether you'd undo any future-doing wrong that could happen with others... since if they knew that the consequences of their actions were taken seriously, then...
(And also to eliminate any thoughts from anyone planning a rescue operation if you jailed them or something? Although, I could probably leave this one out.)

And yeah, I look at the Ed as a hero as well... (I know that we all make mistakes, but the fact that he tried to make things fair tells everything, or something like that.) If I was implying otherwise, then I messed up my wording. Meh. Me and my wording...


@threat to mankind: Maybe "attempted murder" is what I meant?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 01:54:04 AM by Fox » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 03:05:32 PM »

Quote
While I agree that Snowden is a hero, I disagree about killing traitors, you will never undo the wrong he has done, even if you kill him, you can't live in the past. 
The question is whether you'd undo any future-doing wrong that could happen with others... since if they knew that the consequences of their actions were taken seriously, then...
(And also to eliminate any thoughts from anyone planning a rescue operation if you jailed them or something? Although, I could probably leave this one out.)

And yeah, I look at the Ed as a hero as well... (I know that we all make mistakes, but the fact that he tried to make things fair tells everything, or something like that.) If I was implying otherwise, then I messed up my wording. Meh. Me and my wording...


@threat to mankind: Maybe "attempted murder" is what I meant?


there is little evidence that the death penalty is effective to prevent murder or crimes, at the very best, it has no effect, when people want to commit a crime, the death penalty will play no factor on the decision, if that the reason you use to justify it, you might as well give up, because it does not work. Not only the death penalty will not stop a crime, but it will prevent you from undoing a judicial mistake, in the case where you judge and killed the wrong person, you've kill a innocent person.

you should always to people a chance to defend themselves. I prefer to see 4 criminal in liberty then a single innocent on the death chair. personally.
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Fox
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 02:01:11 AM »

@Death penalty / "give up": While the question should not have implied that I was choosing a side... I still wonder about it having no effect? (And instead, be a small factor that's not strong enough to sway their decision.)  Generally, I would have preferred some sources... (I know there are some examples like the Boston Bombings with the Russian brothers.... but I would have assumed this didn't apply to every person in the world. Or at least, not right away, anyway. ... In thought that even just a few seconds could spare someone's life, then... Well, maybe I'm just fantasizing.. )
Either way, I don't have anything to support mine at the moment, and I'll just "give up" because I feel that this is not a topic I'd want to waste a lot of time with...

So does the average person prefer dying than going to jail?
Is the death penalty cheaper than holding someone in jail for life?

Quote
I prefer to see 4 criminal in liberty then a single innocent on the death chair. personally.
Assuming you're talking about the "worst" type of criminal, it would be pretty sad if the 4 criminals killed the one innocent, and then some... Even worse if they did it through seemingly unending torture, and at the same time creating a public scare...
Not sure what to do with them? Put them on meds, and let them be, I guess.

And then there's the question with how people see others? (For example, the two extremes below...  These are best answered as "no.", but the second one might be "on the safe side."...)
- Do most people think others see things in a similar way as themselves if they don't put much thought into it? (Even via something like a subconcious habit?)
- Or do they often feel like the odd ball where no one will ever agree with them?

...but ofcourse, that's going off-topic.

---
Oh, and I never answered my own questions in my first post... but most of those "defensive" strategies are the ones I'd go with.  I probably should have said the questions were somewhat rhetorical, and meant to give examples on what to talk about in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 03:20:48 AM by Fox » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 12:03:41 AM »

So Darkylighty, let me get this straight - because I'm a woman who uses this magical thing we call LOGIC to say "I have plenty of choices, and I FREAKING USE THEM", that means I don't have a right to talk?  Am I not female enough for you that you chose to exclude me from my own gender and talk down to me?  To try to explain I have rights that, well, I exorcize all the time, despite what your claims of my "beliefs" may be?

Did I seriously hear you talk down to me about the rights of women?  Did I seriously see you point by point try to counter my views on this and all the rest of these things?

RTFP, dood.  RTFP.  And next time, know who you're replying to.  At this rate, I'm going to have to explain to you how lesbians work after you accuse me of being a homophobe.

Also, the whole "living in the past" thing is NOT the point of the death penalty.  The penalty is to actually PREVENT the crimes from occurring in the first place.  If you don't make do on threats, they have no power.  That's why the death penalty exists - killing another will result in society killing you back.  Betraying your people will result in your people offing your head. Wrong people, and expect to be wronged back.  These are powerful motivators to get people to follow the rule of law.  If the punishment for betraying my country was a few years in jail, I'd look for the highest bidder.  But it's death - meaning if I get caught, I'm screwed.  So I don't do it - it's not worth the risk.  Before you condemn stuff, stop and ask yourself why these things exist in the first place.

Also, you know those states where murder will cost you 30 years?  For some of the people I've dealt with, that'd be worth it.  The punishment must fit the crime, for two reasons - first to prevent cruelty, but also to encourage prevention.

Finally:

Quote
This mean the reason you kill an animal is for fun or for commercial purpose, but at the very least, it is not an usefull kill, you don't kill to eat, but for fun, because it would be your right to kill an animalk, I always oppose it.
What the hell are you trying to imply here?  If you're making a general statement, do not quote me as though it's a retort.  Nobody implied they had a right to kill anything.  I was merely pointing out the flaws in the question itself - there's no such thing as "random killing".  There is always a reason.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:09:29 AM by Rolina » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 11:41:14 AM »

"There is always a reason" Yep! Even if it's for fun. ; By random killing, I think I meant to say killing people who are probably unwilling to die, and don't deserve it/didn't do anything wrong. ; And that the perpetrator picks a guy they don't know on the same day they kill them... or something. (Probably a reference to a show I watched ~years ago called The Following.)

Don't forget that there could be somewhat legitimate reasons for this as well... For example, low food supply.  So you put people's names in a bag, and draw one out...

I would also mention a party game called Mafia, but not sure if it's good enough.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:09:51 PM by Fox » Logged

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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
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Rolina
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 04:36:26 AM »

Yeah, pretty sure I'd be against something like that.
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Menaus
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 12:36:44 AM »

Interesting discussion so far, here are my thoughts on what's been discussed.

Quote from: Rolina
To kill traitors?  Oh hell yes.
~
No.  Surprised?  Well, you shouldn't be.  This question is abusable as hell - after all, I could deem anyone I wanted to be a threat to mankind, and have them killed for it.

I find these statements rather contradictory. Isn't the former also abusable? Consider the case that a governing body were to take the former to heart. How would we define traitor? Who says who is and who isn't a traitor? What is to stop the government from arbitrarily deeming someone a traitor they just want to get rid of? The same questions are applicable to your latter statement. Heck, you could semantically argue that a traitor and "people who are a threat to mankind" are superficially the same save that one threatens a nation, whereas the other threatens mankind as a whole. The difference is the scale of these people's actions. Under this, shouldn't we apply the same logic to traitors as we do to those who are a threat to mankind?

Quote from: Role
Oh, that's a touchy subject.  I believe that they're unnecessary, but that the ideal replacement - adoption - is so broken and corrupt in the US that the argument of "mercy killing" may in fact be a strong one.  Personally, I think the whole "prolife/prochoice" thing is bullshit.  Pro-life peeps are often also pro-death penalty and tend to lean more towards war-favoring factions in the political system, so they really can't claim they're "pro life" in my eyes.  Pro Choice is equally bullshit.  Why?  We have a choice.  We can choose whether or not to have sex, to have protection on the male, protection on us, the morning after pill, and even adoption.  So that claim is a lie as well.

I agree to a point. The only thing is that you use an ad hominem argument against those who are pro-life, and don't really address their arguments.

As for my own opinions:

Quote
-Do you believe in random killing? How about sacrifices? Does this include only animals, humans, or both?

If by random, you mean spontaneously, without proper thought or reflection beforehand, then no. However, I find the random killing of insects perfectly fine. People may think this is hypocritical, but perhaps they should look at this perspective. Given that all things are just as valuable (or unvaluable) as each other in terms of our worth of life, then I would say that what a person or animal thinks is fine to kill and what they think is not fine to kill is determined by their emotional attachment to the other person or animal. So, me being human, and me being me with my own sort of emotional personality, I find killing a fly a fine thing, perhaps even a good thing to do, because I hold no sort of emotional attachment to it. A dog or a cat? I would think it deplorable to kill those animals because I have emotional connections to dogs and cats because I have had, and seen had, them as pets. So even if I see a cat on the street, who I have no interactions with, I still have an emotional connection to that cat by it being similar another cat that I have known and loved.

This sort of logic applies on a person-by-person, animal-by-animal basis. This is why psychotics and sociopaths do not think killing humans is wrong -- because their brain chemistry does not allow for emotional connections in the same way the average human does.


Quote
-Do you believe in abortions?

I believe that by having sex, you automatically undertake the responsibility of your actions, and the consequences of those actions. As such, abortions are killing people, and those who 'abort' as it were, are those who are too immature and childish to take responsibility for their actions. Nobody has a right to have sex without the risk of having a baby. The two things are mutual, and society seems to think they should be separated. That isn't to say I'm someone who thinks that sex for pleasure is wrong.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who do treason?

No, this is as ridiculous as a company killing a person for trying to quit their job, steal company secrets, and then join with another company to destroy the previous. Deplorable? Perhaps. But not something so wrong that a death sentence should be given.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing false prophets?

No. Freedom of religion, for one. The inability to properly deem someone a 'false prophet', for two.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people who are a threat to mankind?

No, but restraining them and/or keeping them from doing what bad they may do is acceptable, the same way one would stop a mentally unstable person from doing wrong.

Quote
-Do you believe in killing people ahead of time when they are about to die anyway?

This is a loaded question. How do we know they will die, for certain? If they actually wouldn't have died, then doesn't the person involved become a murderer? This sort of idea is rather silly. It is up to the person to decide whether they want to live or not, just like anyone else who is living now. Now, whether that decision is considered deplorable is another matter.

Quote
-If you died, how would you like to be dealt with?

I don't actually care. Burn me if you want. Or chop up my body and leave it to rot. Or give it to cannibals. Or forget about it. Doesn't matter to me. Perhaps leave it to science.

Quote
-Where would you want your assets to go to?

If my family wants my assets, then they can have them. Otherwise, I don't care. Maybe give them to fund scientific research or something.
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"You state that I have misinterpreted my results, and it looks as though you believe my views to be unsound. Your arguments are those of an eminent scholar. I was myself a fair scholar. For years I pondered, so to speak, day and night over books, and filled my head with sound views–very sound ones, indeed—those of others. But I could no[t] get to practical results. I then began to work and think independently. Gradually my views became unsound, but they conducted me to some sound results." - Nikola Tesla
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 09:15:08 PM »

So Darkylighty, let me get this straight - because I'm a woman who uses this magical thing we call LOGIC to say "I have plenty of choices, and I FREAKING USE THEM", that means I don't have a right to talk?  Am I not female enough for you that you chose to exclude me from my own gender and talk down to me?  To try to explain I have rights that, well, I exorcize all the time, despite what your claims of my "beliefs" may be?
I never did judge your feminity, if you say you are female, you are female, only you is capable of deciding what is your gender and what are you belief. If you don't believe in Abortion, then do no abortion, but you have no right to decide for another what she can do with her body, not like abortion is without risk and it is not like someone is for abortions...

So, i am a male, would put me in jail I don't want to have children ? If us male had to bear children, we would have legalise abortion a long time ago.

All women have rights over their individual body, which belong only to themselves. they have the right to decide if they want to be a mother or not. it is that simple. ME, you, and even the president of the US have no say in the matter, we are not them, we should not decide what is better for someone else personnal life.

Who are you to decide that I should not have sex with my girlfriend if we are both willing but not ready for a child, this is our life, not your, you shall take this decision with your boyfriend for your shake. I am rejecting you logic about people should not sex...

Did I seriously hear you talk down to me about the rights of women?  Did I seriously see you point by point try to counter my views on this and all the rest of these things?
I am disagreeing hoverer your point of view, We can choose whether or not to have sex. that is not for you to decided, you have the right to decided what you do with your own vaginas, but what others girls do with their own vaginas and what I do with my penis is of not concern to you, you being a woman does not make you more legitimate to judge what people do with sexual organ then individual males.

RTFP, dood.  RTFP.  And next time, know who you're replying to.  At this rate, I'm going to have to explain to you how lesbians work after you accuse me of being a homophobe.  

You being a lesbian is barely a point, you have the right to love anyone body you want, if you want, you get into a polygamous homosexual incestuous mariage by marrying your two sisters and I have no problem with that, it is your life, you love the one you want, you choose who you marry, that is very simple. And I did not accuse of lbeing an homophobe.

I do not know you, but being lesbian, bieng heterosexual or bisexual is not a choice, but accepting it is.

Also, the whole "living in the past" thing is NOT the point of the death penalty.  The penalty is to actually PREVENT the crimes from occurring in the first place.  If you don't make do on threats, they have no power.  That's why the death penalty exists - killing another will result in society killing you back.  Betraying your people will result in your people offing your head. Wrong people, and expect to be wronged back.  These are powerful motivators to get people to follow the rule of law.  If the punishment for betraying my country was a few years in jail, I'd look for the highest bidder.  But it's death - meaning if I get caught, I'm screwed.  So I don't do it - it's not worth the risk.  Before you condemn stuff, stop and ask yourself why these things exist in the first place.

Also, you know those states where murder will cost you 30 years?  For some of the people I've dealt with, that'd be worth it.  The punishment must fit the crime, for two reasons - first to prevent cruelty, but also to encourage prevention.
 
You cannot repair a mistake with another mistake, death penalty is a mistake in itself, because when the guy is dead, he is gone, if ever we made a mistake and judge the wrong person, that innocent is dead, you cannot give him back his life.

laws by themselves have no effect on crime, and there is no such proof that death penalty is discourageing crime, while prison in life is not.

At some point, all of us made mistakes in our lifes, by giving death penalty, you deny the possibility that the criminal may change and you stick him an evil ticket, 25 years in prison, as in Norway is enough for a life time, and if ever the person is incapable to change, they just keep him in jail for 5 more years. while the goal of death penalty is to punish, we should go towards rehabilitation.

Dealt penalty does not prevent crime, the best way to prevent crime is to encourage education, I would free public education for all until university is a way better way to prevent crime then law and order. like I said, I prefer to see four criminals in liberty, then 1 innocent on the electric chair.

Quote
This mean the reason you kill an animal is for fun or for commercial purpose, but at the very least, it is not an usefull kill, you don't kill to eat, but for fun, because it would be your right to kill an animalk, I always oppose it.
What the hell are you trying to imply here?  If you're making a general statement, do not quote me as though it's a retort.  Nobody implied they had a right to kill anything.  I was merely pointing out the flaws in the question itself - there's no such thing as "random killing".  There is always a reason.
[/quote]
i was putting a definition of random killing, and not accusing you of anything.

there is no reason to kill, but abortions is not killing something
if ever the mother were to have an accident or her baby dies in her woob, should we accuse her of homicide ?
just because the woman is pregnant, it does not mean the baby will survive all 9 months in
Doctors in Canada always allow abortion as long it does not place the life of the woman in danger, I believe this is the code we should respect. we have no need for a law on abortions,
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:36:03 PM by Darkylighty » Logged
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Menaus
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 10:42:46 PM »

All I can say, Darklylight, is that you should learn English better. Right now it is hard to understand what you mean, and it is apparent are misinterpreting some things that Rolina is saying. Until you can reply with coherent English don't think I will debate with you. Nothing against you, but at this point misunderstanding can very easily happen, which results in unnecessary red herrings, and the like.

I will however, say this: You do not understand Rolina's argument, and have misinterpreted what she has said. Also, I have no idea what you are saying either, so perhaps you do understand it and just cannot express your counterargument.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 10:49:42 PM by Menaus » Logged

"You state that I have misinterpreted my results, and it looks as though you believe my views to be unsound. Your arguments are those of an eminent scholar. I was myself a fair scholar. For years I pondered, so to speak, day and night over books, and filled my head with sound views–very sound ones, indeed—those of others. But I could no[t] get to practical results. I then began to work and think independently. Gradually my views became unsound, but they conducted me to some sound results." - Nikola Tesla
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Luna_blade
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2014, 03:37:48 PM »

Whew, so much tension here. Oh well, allow me to speak briefly about what I have felt about this:
Huh, sure feels tense here. I'm doing the same.
If you ask me, I oppose your ideas. Abortion, would it be accidental or with consent, is roughly equal to killing. It is about deliberately removing a baby from the womb of a woman, thus "murdering" the baby. A baby, albeit unborn, still has life and is human. A baby dying in the womb of an unfortunate mother is entirely different from abortion . Still, I will consider consider specific exceptions though (e.g. a sick/frail/weakened woman incapable of giving birth). Ironically, I didn't really care much about laws concerning abortions. It's all up to principles and conscience.
I guess we're not even sure if babies/embryo's have consciousness. I'm not even sure if that's the point for y'all, but it sure is important to me. Altough I think abortion is a personal choice, and should be legal.
All I can say, Darklylight, is that you should learn English better. Right now it is hard to understand what you mean, and it is apparent are misinterpreting some things that Rolina is saying. Until you can reply with coherent English don't think I will debate with you. Nothing against you, but at this point misunderstanding can very easily happen, which results in unnecessary red herrings, and the like.
I could actually follow his post quite good, but I agree with you.

I am disagreeing hoverer your point of view, We can choose whether or not to have sex. that is not for you to decided, you have the right to decided what you do with your own vaginas, but what others girls do with their own vaginas and what I do with my penis is of not concern to you, you being a woman does not make you more legitimate to judge what people do with sexual organ then individual males.
This is getting a bit offtopic.

You cannot repair a mistake with another mistake, death penalty is a mistake in itself, because when the guy is dead, he is gone, if ever we made a mistake and judge the wrong person, that innocent is dead, you cannot give him back his life.
Well you think death penalty is a mistake. Some people don't. But I agree with you. Fighting fire with fire is not the thing to do I think.
laws by themselves have no effect on crime, and there is no such proof that death penalty is discourageing crime, while prison in life is not.
Not a direct effect, but possible indirect. And how about all the ideas that fueled the making of these laws? They surely affect crime.
People who think before acting might reconsider and not kill somebody when there is probably punishment when he/she still does it.
At some point, all of us made mistakes in our lifes, by giving death penalty, you deny the possibility that the criminal may change and you stick him an evil ticket, 25 years in prison, as in Norway is enough for a life time, and if ever the person is incapable to change, they just keep him in jail for 5 more years. while the goal of death penalty is to punish, we should go towards rehabilitation.
I agree.
Dealt penalty does not prevent crime, the best way to prevent crime is to encourage education, I would free public education for all until university is a way better way to prevent crime then law and order. like I said, I prefer to see four criminals in liberty, then 1 innocent on the electric chair.
Possibly. The government stumbles sometimes or abuses their power and that's when there shouldn't be death penalty.
there is no reason to kill, but abortions is not killing something
That is something we could discuss. Is preventing an unborn human from living killing?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 06:48:21 AM by Luna_blade, Reason: Was going to do it. » Logged

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February 26, 2020, 05:17:44 AM
Salanewt: New patch up; waited until now to make it because it's such a basic change, but it's here now.
February 25, 2020, 03:20:41 AM
Salanewt: Hey! Yeah, we can now make recoil damage in GS. Would you mind if I ask for a link to this video? I'm really curious. :P
February 24, 2020, 09:38:49 PM
Foreclosure: Alas, I still gotta play BoF dragon quarters. I saw on a video you guys can now make recoil damage in golden sun. Is it too hard?
February 17, 2020, 04:54:34 AM
Fox: I guess one thing this game has going for it is the Day and Night cycle.
February 17, 2020, 04:51:46 AM
Fox: Also, I noticed since the very beginning of the game, that usually the dresser drawers (whatever you call them) have items in them.
February 17, 2020, 04:48:20 AM
Fox: (And I only recently got Karn, the fourth PC.)
February 17, 2020, 04:36:01 AM
Fox: Was playing Breath of Fire I.... and I must say.... that game's pretty bland.... listening to the same songs basically everywhere... and multiple NPCs saying the exact same thing.  Most of it plays about the same... a maze with common useless items in chests, maybe you'll get one or two fine equipment, but yeah.  ... I want to check #II again later, the game I remember playing like... over a decade ago.
February 04, 2020, 08:06:18 AM
Salanewt: We're more active on the Discord though.
February 04, 2020, 08:06:01 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey! It does, yeah.
February 02, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
Mastermind: holy crap this place still exists?
December 24, 2019, 09:33:09 PM
Fox: Even just plain Editor work can make some difference. = At least these forums are indexed on the Search engine. I was also curious about whether to um... go through all the topics on these forums and take all the important stuff out/placed into a folder for a bit of organization. Would be a bonus since if something ever happened to this forum, or if we ever wanted to start afresh again, it wouldn't be that difficult to do so.
December 24, 2019, 09:23:03 PM
Fox: One thing is for sure. This place has become completely dead. (Mostly because of Discord.)  = I don't think much will happen with this forum unless I, Salanewt, or someone else does a thing.
December 24, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Fox: Probably not?
December 24, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Luna_blade: I suppose this is the last Christmas of this forum? 
December 24, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
Luna_blade: Yay thanks for the coins
December 19, 2019, 04:39:45 AM
Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.
December 18, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Foreclosure: gsmagic is fine
December 17, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*
December 17, 2019, 05:35:04 PM
Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.
December 17, 2019, 05:12:55 PM
Fox: "Misc. GS Hacking" = That name looks odd, so I'd probably just go with "Golden Sun Hacking"
December 17, 2019, 05:08:05 PM
Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)
December 17, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)
December 17, 2019, 04:48:49 PM
Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.
December 17, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.
December 17, 2019, 04:40:26 PM
Fox: categories and/or forums
December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.
December 17, 2019, 04:33:03 PM
Fox: (I still think The Community section fits best at the bottom. =P)
December 15, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
Salanewt: Heya! I'm planning to get the demo up today, but if you can't wait then it's already available on the Discord.
December 15, 2019, 04:12:27 AM
Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)
December 15, 2019, 04:06:19 AM
Fox: I'd buy up all the stock for each item too... but man... I think I'm too lazy for that. =P

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