[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

[Caledor]

The damage formula function is HUGE!
The two address for GS2 that you mentioned are part of the same function.
08120F70 is in the middle of that formula... it all starts at 08120464 in GS2, so I assumed you'd just scroll down from the GS1 address I gave...

And that's what i did, scrolling the address you gave me while looking at GS2 disassembler open on the formula i want in order to look for similarities. I even tried putting breakpoints but each one of them affected any kind of attack, not just base damage ones.

Forgot to search in reverse byte, maybe? (Basically put it in 8-bit mode with no spaces.)

You mean little endian? I did all my searches in the hex editor with both ROMs open using the addresses from the disassembler (removing the starting 8 obviously)...

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

And that's what i did, scrolling the address you gave me while looking at GS2 disassembler open on the formula i want in order to look for similarities. I even tried putting breakpoints but each one of them affected any kind of attack, not just base damage ones.

Sorry for being a little vague.....
There's a couple pointer tables in that function... Both GS1 and GS2 have them.
One pointer list is a switch statement on Damage Type, (The pointer list at around 080BBECC) ... (08120A58 in GS2) As you can see, many damage types point to the same place. (But there are places where they should be divided with-in those sections, I believe.)

080BC2BA should be the address you were looking for...

While we're on the subject, there's also another really big pointer list much further down for a switch statement on the ability effect. (But that's only code for when one gets applied.)

[Caledor]

Thank you for the additional info, will try in a couple of days (got a test coming up) and let you know if i manage something.

EDIT: I took a quick glimpse at the code of the last pointer you gave me just now. This should be exactly what i was looking for, since i even think i've found the summons hp% damage. If the breakpoints don't screw with me (which means only base damage spells and summons are stopped), given all the experience gained from the work on GS2's multiplier I should be able to recreate the Simple Summons patch and then apply the multiplier in the leftover space (which was my goal all along). Fingers crossed.
I DID IT! BOTH THE SIMPLE SUMMONS PATCH AND THE MULTIPLIER FOR GS1 ARE REALITY.
THANK YOU FOX!
I'll post the detailed results tomorrow, going to bed now cause it's 5 am in Italy O.o

EDIT2 - About Classes: I just found out that the simple effects patch, which creates A LOT of free space is awfully close to the class id function. This means that i can reallocate the function to that space and not have function length issues anymore = I can basically recreate the ID calculation from scratch. The first thing i want to do is to get rid of the partial classes. The base will be the same, a system where there are 6 sets of classes for 8 characters. Those are the starting 4 from GS1, which would be now completely separated and 2 more for handling Jenna and Piers. Sara and Felix have their own custom starting class and then they rip the other classes from Isaac and Ivan respectively.
Lord Squirtle, your 2 apparently simple patches are becoming more and more a blessing. They were instrumental in fixing some of the things that annoyed me for AGES, like Drain being dependent on luck, and obviously the creation of the pp multiplier.

[Misery]

Any plans to release the PP base damage multiplier as a stand-alone patch? It's an idea that has been tossed around many times before, I'm sure most people would want to add it to their hacks since it's pretty much "instant game balance, just add patch".

As for the summon discussion earlier, I've had an idea about it too, which is to simply disable summon rushing - that is, only djinn that have been unleashed in battle can be used for summons. Summon rushing is an intended feature though, so taking it out can be seen as a drawback. The code would involve keeping track of how many standby djinn of each element every party member enters battle with. I'm planning to make a more detailed post about it eventually. Maybe.

[Caledor]

Honestly i wasn't but if you're interested, why not? I'll have to make some test before though, and remember that the one for gs2 will necessarily include the simple summons patch from lord squirtle. The patches are UP!

let me know about your ideas for handling summons. I've already dealt with them somehow, but i definitively open to change if i like your solution better.

[Misery]

That's very nice, I for one will definitely use that if I ever get back into GS editing. For now though, I mainly suggested it in the interest of the rest of the community. I'm pretty sure not having scaling psynergy damage was an oversight in development, there's a lot that suggests they didn't fully realize the scope of the project (GS book 1&2) when they started.

let me know about your ideas for handling summons. I've already dealt with them somehow, but i definitively open to change if i like your solution better.

Well, it's literally that - djinn that were on standby when you entered battle can't be used for summoning. Unless you set them manually and then unleash them, that is. The idea is to add the cost of a character action for every elemental level you make available for summoning, instead of getting a potential 72 levels in 0 actions on the first turn.

I think another good thing would be to have varying HP% efficiency depending on the level of the summon, probably still 2% for everything but the 5 special summon tablets, which could stay at 3% because of their higher requirements.

[Caledor]

The 2% thing is exactly what i did since it has been suggested multiple times. Quoting myself from my opening post, here's what i did to summons, both GS1 and GS2:

Summons HP% Damage nerfed from 3% per Djinn to 2% per Djinn.
Summons Base power buffed to 35-70-140-280 for the standard 4, Zagan 60, Megaera 65, Flora 120, Moloch 130, Ulysses 260, Eclipse 350, Haures 370, Coatlicue 400, Dedalus 120+340, Azul 480, Catastrophe 520, Charon 650, Iris remained 800.

The higher base damage means you have to be much more wary of Valukar and Dullahan's Charon, something I like a lot. Your idea is really nice but the wall is pretty huge cause we need to create a new function from scratch as well as repoint the standby djinn calculator function (if such a thing exists) in battle to the new one.

[Misery]

The 2% thing is exactly what i did since it has been suggested multiple times. Quoting myself from my opening post, here's what i did to summons, both GS1 and GS2:

Summons HP% Damage nerfed from 3% per Djinn to 2% per Djinn.
Summons Base power buffed to 35-70-140-280 for the standard 4, Zagan 60, Megaera 65, Flora 120, Moloch 130, Ulysses 260, Eclipse 350, Haures 370, Coatlicue 400, Dedalus 120+340, Azul 480, Catastrophe 520, Charon 650, Iris remained 800.

Emphasis on *varying* HP% efficiency depending on the summon to make the higher end summons stand apart, I've already seen the updated stats for your summons. As of now, mid-level multi element summons are the most effective (again, in the unmodded version)

The higher base damage means you have to be much more wary of Valukar and Dullahan's Charon, something I like a lot. Your idea is really nice but the wall is pretty huge cause we need to create a new function from scratch as well as repoint the standby djinn calculator function (if such a thing exists) in battle to the new one.

I'll get to work on posting the details of my ideas for the implementation in a separate topic. Actually, I don't think the real problem is that it's somewhat complex to do, but the fact that it prevents you from doing something you were supposed to be able to do. I still think it's more in the "spirit" of the series though as it's the same flow they show in the djinn tutorial: you unleash djinn, then you use them to summon.

[Caledor]

I'll follow your thread to see where this goes. As a side note, I've added Djinn changes to the first post.

[Caledor]

The xls doc containing every info regarding the classes you'll find in my rebalance mod IS UP AGAIN. First post, under classes. Also, while the tab states "finished" I'm open to suggestions/questions/giving explanations about EVERYTHING, from class names to stats and skillsets.

[Caledor]

Mars-element Revive in GS1 aside, the rebalance v1.0 is now complete! I'm currently going trough a full playtrough before releasing, to see how everything looks like, if there's still room for improvement etc etc

[Caledor]

Looks like my full-playthrough plan "derailed" after beating Tret. Well, at least this brought the second wave of changes. The opening post has been updated! Time to restart from Vale once again...

EDIT: The patches have been RELEASED!

[Chronotakular]

Alright, I've made an account to post this.

I'm enjoying the mod so far for the first Golden Sun, it's very enjoyable and has a good difficulty.

However, I've noticed the Djinni Quartz (He revives people), doesn't do anything, unless you cast it on yourself, which, is useless.

When you cast it on a downed member, it causes the person to use Quartz to defend.

I'm no good at modding and I have no clue how'd you fix this, but perhaps it's something to look into?

Thanks!

[Caledor]

I will! Thanks for reporting and sorry for the trouble. keep an eye on the download section cause you'll find the fix within the next version of the patch.

EDIT: The bug has been fixed (it was a very idiotic mistake of mine). Wait for v1.15! v1.15 has been released!

[Chronotakular]

Awesome! Thanks for the quick response and fix!

I'll report anything else I find. Almost done with the first game, and looking to diving into the Lost Age soon!

[Sleeping Bear Z]

Continuing from the thread.

"I Think that there should be a Mercury version of Quick Strike since you have one for all of the other elements and it would balance Piers to Isaac and Felix. You could replace either "Plume Edge" or "Diamond Berg" since they are very similar to each other   
(92 + Attack at 17 PP) Diamond Berg
(80 + Attack at 15 PP) Plume Edge

Also I think that the "Hero class" should be given a Mars based attack (such as Beam or Fume etc) since Piers's other  Tri classes feature 3 element attacks whereas Hero only features two."

[Caledor]

Awesome! Thanks for the quick response and fix!

I'll report anything else I find. Almost done with the first game, and looking to diving into the Lost Age soon!

You're welcome and thank you for playing with my mod.  

I Think that there should be a Mercury version of Quick Strike since you have one for all of the other elements and it would balance Piers to Isaac and Felix. You could replace either "Plume Edge" or "Diamond Berg" since they are very similar to each other  
(92 + Attack at 17 PP) Diamond Berg
(80 + Attack at 15 PP) Plume Edge

Also I think that the "Hero class" should be given a Mars based attack (such as Beam or Fume etc) since Piers's other  Tri classes feature 3 element attacks whereas Hero only features two.

As always thanks for reading and I am look forward to hearing from you soon.

Already thought of doing exactly what you said. Diamond Berg was tested as a Mercury Quick Strike and Diamond Dust as a Shuriken to be used by Piers' new classes. In the end I scrapped everything because i thought leaving some differences between elements (if it didn't already exist i would have probably never made the "Jupiter Quick Strike" for the same reason) is better.

About the Hero class: that's also something i thought of many times but i never really found a set that satisfied me. But this is certainly the right time to implement it, so expect some Mars-based offense for the Hero in v1.16. Probably either Starburst or Heat Wave, or maybe even both. Just remember that each class is limited to 16 Psynergies, so in order to add something, something else will be removed.

Also, regarding Plume Edge, don't trust old data while playing with the mod, use the editor, open the rom and see for yourself. I made so many changes that i really couldn't list them all, and one of them is the increased power to every Elemental Physical Attack to make their power closer to that of Ragnarok. Plume Edge is now (v1.15) +90 Damage at 17 PP. But the fact that it's too similar to the other one is true, i'll probably give the Admiral plume edge and make Diamond Dust a mercury equivalent of Meteor Blow (= stronger than ragnarok).

[Sleeping Bear Z]

Fantastic :D I'll be using the Atrius Editor for the newer attack information.

[Luna_blade]

Hooray! More hacks to play!

I didn't know you were doing changes for both games. That's pretty good.

[Chronotakular]

Hello! I'm back!

I have now completed both games in full. I'm going to write here things I've noticed that seem odd, that are perhaps overlooks and glitches, so you're at least aware of them.

Golden Sun:

• Flash is blocking A LOT more damage than Granite. (I can't recall if this is present in the Lost Age though.)

Golden Sun: The Lost Age:

• Water of Life is NOT consuming when used outside of battle. The same may be true for the first game.
• Similarly, and Revive / Raise psyenergy doesn't consume PP outside of battle. May be true for the first game as well.
• I'm not sure how much you're aiming for compatibility, but while Mountain Water does transfer from the first Golden Sun, it's quantity is always one.

Thanks again for making! It was a blast to play these games again with the added difficulty!