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[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

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Caledor

#960
@Toadonpa After I'm done with the upgrade to debuffs and ailments, the next step is to check every single enemy in both games to give them more of those, so i'll definitively keep that in mind.

@Ivan/Sheba. Yeah, I do. About stats before multipliers or vice versa... well, chronologically one of the two HAD to come first, but I knew I would've done both from the beginning. I just started with classes.

@Dismiss the argument: Did I? O.o

Misery

Ummmm I'm slow at replying but anyway

Quote from: Caledor on 04, April, 2016, 03:22:32 PM@Misery
What would be totally wrong is making break an every turn occurrence. As things stand now a 3 turn boss has a 46% chance to cast it each turn on average. Also consider that the first turn you buff from 0 he won't cast it so the whole thing boils down to 1 break in 3 turns. Also, not all bosses have it. Maybe less thaaround half? Don't remember.
Well, the thing about buffs is that they make you use an action for an indirect contribution to your damage or survival, and take several turns before their full effect is realized. Under those conditions, I guess at least Resist and Impact could break even? It's hard for me to say without testing things a bit. Anyway, it was more of a general note about bosses using Break than aimed specifically at this hack.

QuoteDjinn storm is not random at all and has never been as such, not even in vanilla. Both enemies that use it have a sequential attack pattern that has been carefully planned out.
Yeah I know, and that's why I think it's fine.

Quote from: Rolina on 04, April, 2016, 03:27:59 PM
@Djinn Storm/Misery: Which Both Djinn Storm users do - Dullahan specifically follows Djinn Storm up with Charon, while the Doom Dragon has reached the point of that fight when he starts spamming Cruel Ruin, which is basically Judgement in Base Power and Iris in HP% damage before those summons got nerfed.  Granted, that's his vanilla form, but still - both Djinn Storms follow up Djinn Storm with ridiculously powerful attacks, negating any class setups you had, nixing djinn stat bonuses, and of course now that we have a right and proper nerfed revive, preventing any real recovery from happening.
Both are summon style moves, meaning they scale with max HP and have pretty heavy damage falloff, so those actually seem like pretty good choices. I'll give you Charon since it has some pretty high base power and the instant death chance... which in my experience claims many more victims than the actual damage. Cruel Ruin is a joke in comparison, it won't even kill djinnless level 30-ish characters without prior damage.

That's for vanilla though, in this hack where revive is nerfed and summons have higher base power I could see them potentially being more of a problem (Djinn Storm + summon combo).

Aile~♥

Quote from: Misery on 06, April, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: Rolina on 04, April, 2016, 03:27:59 PM
@Djinn Storm/Misery: Which Both Djinn Storm users do - Dullahan specifically follows Djinn Storm up with Charon, while the Doom Dragon has reached the point of that fight when he starts spamming Cruel Ruin, which is basically Judgement in Base Power and Iris in HP% damage before those summons got nerfed.  Granted, that's his vanilla form, but still - both Djinn Storms follow up Djinn Storm with ridiculously powerful attacks, negating any class setups you had, nixing djinn stat bonuses, and of course now that we have a right and proper nerfed revive, preventing any real recovery from happening.
Both are summon style moves, meaning they scale with max HP and have pretty heavy damage falloff, so those actually seem like pretty good choices. I'll give you Charon since it has some pretty high base power and the instant death chance... which in my experience claims many more victims than the actual damage. Cruel Ruin is a joke in comparison, it won't even kill djinnless level 30-ish characters without prior damage.

That's for vanilla though, in this hack where revive is nerfed and summons have higher base power I could see them potentially being more of a problem (Djinn Storm + summon combo).
Yeah, losing your Djinn means you lose a whole bunch of your Luck, so you're extremely vulnerable to Charon's instant death. And even in Cruel Ruin's case, sure it can't kill a level 30-ish character without prior damage, but considering you lose access to full-party heals at lower class tiers it still cripples you.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Caledor

#963
I'm considering the possibility of removing elemental levels from the formula that calculates the success chance for ailments. For reference:
[spoiler](((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * diminishing%) / 100)  >= rnd()[/spoiler]
Reason behind this is that it's very unbalanced towards mono elemental classes and that debuffs are poorly spread among elements. But I want to hear your opinions on the matter cause I could've easily missed something important.

Also... Ideas for the icons of Stun, Taint and Poison? First thing that came to mind is a green and red palette swap of sleep for taint/poison and delude with lightnings instead of fog for Stun. Unless someone has a better idea... :P

Misery

Quote from: JamietheFlameUser on 06, April, 2016, 12:00:33 PM
And even in Cruel Ruin's case, sure it can't kill a level 30-ish character without prior damage, but considering you lose access to full-party heals at lower class tiers it still cripples you.
This is why you always keep a healer in the backup party. Switching in one character is a free action.

Quote from: Caledor on 06, April, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
I'm considering the possibility of removing elemental levels from the formula that calculates the success chance for ailments. For reference:
[spoiler](((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * diminishing%) / 100)  >= rnd()[/spoiler]
Reason behind this is that it's very unbalanced towards mono elemental classes and that debuffs are poorly spread among elements. But I want to hear your opinions on the matter cause I could've easily missed something important.
I think the main reason to do this would be that there's no real way to take advantage of it... there's very little leeway in what djinn you use for a certain class. Keep in mind it will affect enemy success rates as well, since they also have elemental levels.

As for debuffs being unevenly spread, I don't think it's wrong for different elements to have specialities.

Aile~♥

Quote from: Misery on 06, April, 2016, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Caledor on 06, April, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
I'm considering the possibility of removing elemental levels from the formula that calculates the success chance for ailments. For reference:
[spoiler](((((((Attacker's elemental level - Defender's elemental level) - Floor(Defender's luck / 2)) * 3) + effect's base chance + (vulnerabity's 25)) * diminishing%) / 100)  >= rnd()[/spoiler]
Reason behind this is that it's very unbalanced towards mono elemental classes and that debuffs are poorly spread among elements. But I want to hear your opinions on the matter cause I could've easily missed something important.
I think the main reason to do this would be that there's no real way to take advantage of it... there's very little leeway in what djinn you use for a certain class. Keep in mind it will affect enemy success rates as well, since they also have elemental levels.

As for debuffs being unevenly spread, I don't think it's wrong for different elements to have specialities.
The problem of course is that the Elemental Level part of the equation basically just exists to make debuffs more effective when used by enemies than when used by the player, since they get a greater variety of debuffs on each element thanks to monster skills. And the unevenness of the debuff selection is also an issue when an enemy's status vulnerability doesn't match up with their elemental vulnerability, making exploiting their weakness not as much of an option as it could/should be.

So yes, I'd say get rid of that particular part of the ailment equation.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

dive_darkness

#966
Ok, went and beat the king scorpion. So, water djinn north of mikasalla: weak. No problem beating him.
Wind djinn in desert: weaker than the water djinn. Ray is his Most dangerous attack, and it's weak.

Now for the big boss. King scorpion is actually pretty slow, so you will have literally no problem healing before he acts. Now, using Fog, you can blind him pretty easily. But, it's 100% useless, because he only uses his skills, which bypass blind.
So, it' just a dps race. Just spam djinns and invocations, and you'll have no problem beating him.
Level 11 for everyone, equipments from mikassala.

Rolina

#967
@Jamie:  Dood, I was agreeing with you.  That was being directed at Caledor.

Yeah, the fact that ELevel is tied with Classes is annoying as hell.  I mean, if we could freely manipulate them with stat buffs, that'd be awesome.  Hell, it'd mean we could have a weapon type that specializes in maledictions, like what I want to do with Scythes.  It'd mean we could have gear like the Prophet's Hat actually act more akin to the unleash, increasing ailment infliction rate as its boon.

Not sure how I feel about getting rid of it from the equation, but I can't come up with any good arguments not to do it, either.  I mean, it'll impact foes as much as allies.  Maybe even more, if you're running tri-element classes.

@Dismiss:  Yeah, you did - completely misrepresenting my argument as you did so, but you did.  You've had an... odd way of arguing your stance here.  Such as claiming you never said you were right, when I never made such a claim.  It is possible to be wrong even when you never claimed to be correct - I know from experience.  Sometimes you just have to step away from your own way of thinking to consider why people feel the way they do.

Caledor

I also thought about replacing the difference of elemental levels with (Power-Res)/10. Scrapped it cause it would dramatically decrease the importance of luck builds due to Ward, which is already quite strong as it is.

Scythes atm are impossible or beyond complicated at the very least. And yes, Tri-elemental classes are one of the things that worries me the most since debuffs are going to be a lot more prominent with v1.35

Aile~♥

Quote from: Rolina on 06, April, 2016, 07:24:38 PM
@Jamie:  Dood, I was agreeing with you.  That was being directed at Caledor.
You said "you guys" with a plural, so I got confused.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Oh, I know scythes aren't gonna be a thing.  That'd require whole new spritework.  I was just talking about the system I'm working on, which is completely separate from this hack.

Speaking of, I'm going to be on hiatus for a bit - kinda got bit by the inspiration bug, and will be reworking my approach to weapons in that very system.  I hope to get it done by the end of the weekend, but there's gonna be a lot of excel in my afternoons for a while.  Sorry about the delay.  I'll let you know when I pick TBS back up.

Caledor

No prob. Also, share your ideas when you're done, they might inspire some tweaks :P

BTW, v1.35 is proceeding smoothly but new ideas keep popping up in my head so it's getting bigger by the day.

Caledor

#972
v1.35 progress report

Class Chart HERE

Partial Changelog:
New Psynergies: Heal series, Paralyze, Poison (Heal is slightly weaker than Wish: 70/140/280)
Potent Cure BP to 350. PP cost to 15
Almost every class tweaked.
Halved HP gained from Djinn, same amount added to each character's growth. Other minor tweaks to djinn's stat bonuses.
Characters' Luck grows with levels, Piers' Luck swapped with Jenna's. Djinn grant less Luck.
Changed which buffs/debuffs and ailments are available at certain class tiers (2 djinn tier: single target (de)buff + Paralyze, Sleep, Bind, Haunt; 4 djinn tier: multi target (de)buff + Break, Curse, Condemn)
Buffs and Debuffs revamped: Multi-target ones have a range of 5. Single target ones have lower success chance and duration (5 turns instead of 7).
Water jacket, Dragon Scales, Black Garb, Kimono, Triton Ward, Cocktail Dress, Aerial Gloves, Spirit Gloves (TBS), Devil's Crown, Jester's Armlet, Astral Circlet, Fear Helm, Demon Circlet, Berserk Circlet, Safety Boots tweaked
Ankhs, Lucky Peppers, Cheongsam, Fairy Ring, Arcadia Mail, Festival Happi, Iris Robe, Floating Hat, Brilliant Circlet, Divine Camisole, Casual Shirt grant less Luck
Valkyrie Mail, Mythril Clothes, Riot Gloves, Aura Gloves, Aegis Shield, Erinyes Tunic, Terror Shield: critical boost increased.
Propeth's Hat boosts PP; Millenium Helm and Xylion Armor boost Power, Glorious Helm boosts Luck, War Gloves boost criticals, Muni Robe boosts & replenishes HP, Mysterious Robe boosts Earth Power & Resist, Iris Robe replenishes HP.
Dragon Mail, Dragon Robe, Dragon Shield and Dragon Helm bestow psynergies instead of boosting stats (respectively High Impact, Screen, Protect and Fire Breath BP 110)
Spirit Gloves from TBS renamed to Mystery Gloves to avoid confusion with Spirit Gloves from TLA

To Do
Tweak sleep/stun recovery rate
Immunity to sleep/stun when Luck is higher than 40
Replace "elemental levels difference" inside ailment success chance formula with "caster's level / 5"
Replace "Luck*3" inside ailment recover rate formula with "Luck - Level/4"
Tweak forgeable material drops
Global enemy check

EDIT: Changelog & Class chart updated
v1.35 will require a new game to be played at its fullest, due to the extensive changes made to character stats (the game doesn't "catch up" with stats).
The growing Luck with levels was required due to the upcoming changes to the whole ailment mechanic (in the To Do list).
The change to HP growth (moved from djinn to characters) instead, while not "needed" like the Luck one, has at least three positive effects: Characters are more resilient to standby djinn cause they lose less HP, smooths out HP growth (more tied to levels means less spikes due to djinn) and mages will have a bit more HP on average, cause they tend to favour djinn that increase PP, which in turn increase less HP.

Rolina

Sorry - I'm gonna have to make my hiatus longer.  This weekend was kinda... crazy, and kinda knocked me on my butt.  No idea how long it'll be, but I can say with certainty that this time I won't need to restart - I'll be back doing this before may for certain.

Caledor

#974
No prob. Actually as you can see v1.35 is still going to take a while.

dive_darkness

Okay, not a big update (will come this week-end I hope), but yay, finally took some time and cleared air's rock. Took me 46 minutes. I must admit that I cheated and used a code to make so that there's no encounter >< normally I'm closer to the 1h30 - 2h. I hate this dungeon, probably the one I hate the most out of all 2 games. Hell, even the small straight path just before Venus lighthouse is less boring...
Air's rock is basically a straight line with absolutely no difficulty.

Next time Briggs, and maybe even going up to piers and the Great Gabomba (that name always makes me smile. I always imagine one of my friend disguised as a guru and saying: "Bow down before the Great Gabomba ! This Great Gabomba also accept money instead, or shiny valuable stones. Black ones are the best !"

Caledor

#976
Finally done with formula hacking for v1.35.

Multiple base infliction rates for statuses (to separate "effect only" and "damage + effect"), single target buffs last for 5 turns instead of 7, replaced elemental levels difference within the ailment infliction formula with "caster's level / 5", new formula for recovering from a debuff/ailment is:
Luck  - (Level / 4) - (Turns * 5) + Base Chance.

Oh, and... having Luck >= 40 grants immunity to sleep and stun too.

Back to the good old editor now.

dive_darkness

Okie, first small update today.
Briggs... I was afraid because I usually hate this fight, for Briggs and his minions always tend to gang against one of my character. Well, it didn't go that way... They aren't dangerous at all.
Went with a lv 13 team, Felix defender, spamming cutting edge. would've been much easier with Ruffian class and planet diver. Didn't heal at all, which makes this defender class pointless for this fight.
Jenna, two fire djinns, equipped the card, and spammed flame card until she couldn't anymore, then djinns/summons.
Sheba normal attacks and heal when needed. 2earth djinns and 1 wind linked.
Equipments are those found in air's rock and garoh.

Next: gabomba and it's djinns.

Caledor

Quote from: dive_darkness on 17, April, 2016, 09:56:57 AM
Briggs... I was afraid because I usually hate this fight, for Briggs and his minions always tend to gang against one of my character. Well, it didn't go that way... They aren't dangerous at all. [...]
Equipments are those found in air's rock and garoh.
It's cause you're supposed to fight Briggs BEFORE Air's Rock. If you do things the other way around he becomes ridiculously easy, like Tret after Saturos.

dive_darkness

#979
Looks like I never really followed the "normal" path in these games ^^'
If I took the other way around, I think I' just have used summon-spamming and crushed him.

Edit: Gondowan cliffs' fire djinn is quickly taken care of by cutting edge. Sheba on healing duty, Jenna normal attacks. Pretty easy.
Took a few resets because he kept running away. Normal enemy groups in this area are more dangerous than him. Yup.