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Fox
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« on: December 28, 2019, 09:11:15 PM »

I need to look into it more, but anyway... if I (or whoever) did some day join a U.S. military (not saying I will, but it has been a what if thought in the back of my head, at least...)  Is this one potentially the best one? And why? (E.g. To me, strict age/height/weight/etc. restrictions would be a red flag. (Even if you meet them.)... so anything with leniency would be good things. - And things like tattoo rules can be completely ignored since I don't participate in tattoos anyway. I mean, still noted, I guess... but I'd consider it a rather low weight to ranking them. (At least when not combined with everything else.))

So what expectations should be had, etc. ?  Hm. - E.g. Assuming if I were to do it, I would probably want to do something that wasn't life threatening/high-risk. (If that makes sense. Kind of seems silly to think about if you consider we all get old and die anyway, but still.....) Lower risk things I don't mind... like the risk of cutting yourself with a knife or burning yourself on the stove, etc. (Both which can be serious or hardly serious at all.)

Is the training mostly combative? Like.... including wrestling/boxing type stuff? Not really my thing. (Or who knows.) First thoughts is I'd rather be a doctor or clean-up guy first.... but anyway....


I guess this topic can also kind of bring some activity to this forum a little bit... but I get the feeling it is not relevant to most of the Community.

(Maybe when I do a bit of research I can put some of my findings here. -- I already expect it to be highly focused on aircraft.)


Tattoo rules for Air Force = No tattoos on head/neck or hands (except an optional single ring band tattoo)... tattoos are okay on the rest of the body (chest/back/arms/legs) as long as it is not disturbing. (Use to be a 25% tattoo limit, but I read that was lifted due to  recruit percentages on how many people had a lot of tattoos and were disqualified. I guess to simplify the process as well. :shrug: Although it wouldn't apply to me (for being tattoo-less), I'm glad they made that change. An all or nothing approach like that does make better sense to me.)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 12:08:19 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 11:50:14 AM »

I was in the Air Force for 10 years (Just got out last year) I'd be glad to talk to you about my time in.
Joining the Air Force was probably the best decision I made in my life so far, but I am also very VERY glad that I am out now.


The first thing to know is that joining the Military, no matter which branch, is nowhere near the same as getting a job/career.  You give up a lot of your own freedom while you're in the Military service.  One of the bigger examples of this is that you have to live where they station you, with little choice in the matter, and you move around every few years.  You could get stationed in Colorado for three years, then get sent to South Korea.  If you don't show up you're not just going to get fired, you're going to be considered AWOL and facing serious charges under the uniform code of military justice.  During your first few years in (if you're single) you'll be expected to live in the dormitories on base.


There are restrictions.  The one that stands out most to me most though is physical fitness.  It's a very large part of Military life, from my experience the "gym bro" culture is pretty strong, you'll be expected to exercise regularly and meet fitness standards.  If you don't meet fitness standards you will be punished, and possibly kicked out of the Military.  I've actually seen it happen quite a lot, including to people with known medical conditions who were physically incapable of meeting expectations.


The training is pretty far from combative, I never did any wrestling/boxing or anything close quarters like that.  We were taught how to handle a rifle and did some basic drills for being deployed in a combat zone, but that was a very small part of Air Force basic training.  A lot of it is just head games to find out how well you handle and respond to stress, and instilling discipline so they know you'll follow orders.


Life threatening/high-risk...  It's very possible to have a Military career where you're never put in any life threatening situations, but the reality of Military service is that you are expected to be willing to.  I was VERY lucky to end up in a career field where I never deployed during my time in, this is extremely rare.  Almost everyone that I talked to outside of my career field deployed at least once, and many of them deployed multiple times.  Not all deployments are to dangerous places, and even if you get deployed to a dangerous place you might never end up leaving the base.  Even if you don't, our bases get attacked too so you may not be safe.  If you join the Military you should do so knowing that you are fully expected to put yourself in life threatening situations when ordered to.


Like I said though, I still believe that joining the Air Force was one of the best decisions I made in my life so far.  There are a lot of good benefits that come with it like the training, they'll pay for your school, health and dental care, you can get the opportunity to travel, e.t.c.  But, for me, the experience itself was exactly what I needed at the time.  When I joined the Air Force I was at a point in my life where I felt completely lost.  I had been out of high school for a while, was struggling to find a job and had just dropped out of college because I couldn't afford to go any more.  My parents were threatening to kick me out on the street, I had very little self confidence, and pretty much nowhere left to turn at that point.  The discipline, skills, and confidence that I gained from my service in the Air Force were life changing for me.  I can say without a doubt that it was the correct decision and I am very glad that I did it.  I can also say that it is not a good decision for everyone, and I am very glad to be out now.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 11:59:57 AM by Atrius » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2020, 06:10:01 PM »

While its ultimately your choice what you do, based on current political circumstances, I think joining the air force (or the military) outside of genuinely believing in the cause is not a good idea at all. I would avoid it. Atrius's account offers some important insight but a lot of political tension has happened in the last year that sways my opinion away from encouraging anyone to go into the service right now.

If you want advice on how to get a job without a degree, I would recommend building out projects and treating those as jobs on your resume. You can explain them as some sort of self-funded project in your spare time. It doesn't have to be a company or anything. Also, contribute towards the open source community and demonstrate your skills through building your own tools. In fact, Atrius's editor is a great example of what an employer would love to see. You can take a few days to clean up your codebase and make everything look nice - its worth it and if you can secure a job, you will be making a lot more money than a lot of other people without degrees and you won't have to go to college or the military.

A degree does give you good skills for the theory behind computers but frankly you aren't going to be the best prepared for the workplace without actual direct experience. Building my own games was the best thing I ever did for myself both for my own confidence as a developer and my capability as a worker. If you're interested in theory you should pursue a Master's so you're more adept since I don't think a bachelor's is enough for theory. I do want to go back to college for learning more computer science theory but its so expensive its not worth it.

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When I joined the Air Force I was at a point in my life where I felt completely lost.  I had been out of high school for a while, was struggling to find a job and had just dropped out of college because I couldn't afford to go any more.  My parents were threatening to kick me out on the street, I had very little self confidence, and pretty much nowhere left to turn at that point.  The discipline, skills, and confidence that I gained from my service in the Air Force were life changing for me.  I can say without a doubt that it was the correct decision and I am very glad that I did it.  I can also say that it is not a good decision for everyone, and I am very glad to be out now.

What concerns me about this approach is the idea that this is an appropriate way to achieve self discipline. Discipline isn't just a matter of submission training but also a passion and love in what you do, which the military can't provide in of itself. I dropped out of college and had to get away from my parents too - my discipline was carved by fighting poverty and fighting in the direction that I carved myself by building my own tech. When I realized what I could do with my own hands it really was a confidence booster. Even people who "fail" at society still have the discipline to survive - and I think compassion is needed to see that in other contexts. There are many paths to discipline and confidence. I think what's more important than being trained in these things is being trained in the ways that we may knock each other's discipline/confidence down in competitive banter. We're stronger together but we fail to realize it if we are constantly judging each other's discipline and confidence. Would I sacrifice the autonomy I gained by figuring out my own self discipline by having it given to me through someone who is using my life for causes that I don't really understand? This is much more of a concern because loss of life currently is a real possibility in very recent times.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:18:03 PM by roger » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 08:39:35 AM »

Thank you for your responses!

Yeah, a lot of this is what-if thinking.... It's probably more likely I won't do it (I'm probably unqualified anyway?  I do know I can do 20 push-ups, and can't get to 50 without cheating, at least.), but anyway.... figured it's worth a least thinking about it. - You have to consider all options when looking for the right one, at least.


Hm. So let's say if I were actually in the military right now (I'm not), and I get sent to South Korea... Hmmm.... sounds painful... A part of me could still be interested just for the one-time learning experience... but ultimately, best if it could be avoided.  ... (I guess it also doesn't help with confidence when you have zero experience. -- I mean like... for starters... I probably never shot a gun before, but likely wouldn't mind doing so...) ....  Shrug.... If this were about attacking Israel, that would probably be the worst case scenario for me. (Due to Religious beliefs. Since in the Christianity religion, Israel was suppose to be God's chosen people or something.)

Exercising regularly...  so... even pass the entry level training stuff....?...  Is that even if you already still meet the standards? Ouch. (As in like... it is easy to fall off the standards in say... a week?)


Wouldn't be surprised if in the end, that if I had done it too, that I probably would have found it worth it too... but .... it's probably better I not do it. At least not at this time. - What is the minimum amount of time you can do, anyway? Or do you like... have no say? (Off the top of my head/without research... I would think, hope, that you should be allowed to set a retirement date way ahead of time (e.g. like 1 year in advance)... but not sure how any of that works.)

Are there even any career types/programs that mimic military training stuff without actually being so hard-core about it? (Without requiring you to be willingly put in harm's way.)  Something that allows a person (not necessarily me) to know if Military would fit them. (More just curious of the nation's flexibility than anything.) - Who knows, could be interesting to take a class like that just simply for educational purposes, even if you don't intend to dive that deep.


Quote
including to people with known medical conditions who were physically incapable of meeting expectations.
Were these people given an opportunity to resign? (Approval likely required.) Or is there like... no way to do so even with such conditions? (Therefore resulting in being "fired" instead of a resignation.)

And what types of punishments are we talking about? (50 push-ups? 50 laps? Clean some large equipment with a toothbrush?  Etc?  Is there even a thing called Isolation? (Which I believe is counter-productive))

-
(Questions to do with you and how things went/are going follow.)

You are out now? So what is it you are doing now that you are out?  (Basically asking if you found a job without much trouble after having gotten out, and what type of job? (e.g. Manufacturing, Store Clerk, etc.)) Going to guess it is not related to what you were doing in military?

Does this mean you are planning to continue on Forgotten Dreams? (Or do any other projects?)

And when you were in military, what is the biggest thing you got in trouble for? If anything?  Did you keep track of how many times you got "ticketed"? (Or whatever it is they do.)

Have you been gaining weight since you got out? (Sorry for embarrassing question.)

Perhaps you should also update your profile here on GSHC, since you are not "currently stationed at Eielson Air Force Base," right now.

---

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Would I sacrifice the autonomy I gained by figuring out my own self discipline by having it given to me through someone who is using my life for causes that I don't really understand? This is much more of a concern because loss of life currently is a real possibility in very recent times.
While I agree...
On one hand.... Hard to say... loss of life is pretty much a guarantee/unavoidable...  (Unless say, something like a rapture happens... :D) - Who knows if this life really means anything afterwards. (On one perspective.)
So question becomes whether you want to die from natural causes/no reason... or die trying to help someone/whoever/whatever.... and be remembered for your great brave cause.
(I mean like... did you just notice how quickly these last 10 years went? Wow, man.)
I feel like the U.S. is more likely to go after the bad guys... even so, it is likely no one country is perfect.... it would be a real shame if the "bad guys" were really the true good guys... so in that case, yeah.
And on another hand... the ability to live a civilian life for a time, and do what you want... is hard to pass up. And also offers a lot of opportunities.





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employer would love to see.
Hmm.... what employers would be likely candidates for me? Hmmm...... While I have worked a job before, it was not a programming one...
And while I'm confident in my ability to program in a reasonable amount of time for the average thing.... I don't really have much to show for it. And my main two projects are an embarrassment. Kinda. (Yoshi Magic and gsmagic)... They were a bit messy.... There were also a few other things... For example, I once got the Python For Everybody certificates from coursera.org, but I really don't think those should count... they barely have you do much Python beyond the first two courses.
So it'll probably have to be entry level... but do we have any companies interested in hiring a bunch of entry level?



---
Huh, interesting... anyone heard of Space Force? Not sure if that is like... comparable to Waymo breaking away from Google.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 12:19:14 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 12:51:19 AM »

Like I've never been in the military so I'm not saying with definitive answer but we are basically engaging in war with Iran at this point so you're probably going to go to Iran, who are EXTREMELY pissed right now considering the attack last week. So you're probably going to get your @#$ headed to Iran where you're likely going to be on the front lines; this is like 2003-levels "probably not a good idea". If you want to go Iran and do that I suppose that's reason enough but I would not join the military if I wanted to live right now. Just being perfectly blunt with you.

I'm going gloves off with this post so pardon my political projection, but.

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On one hand.... Hard to say... loss of life is pretty much a guarantee/unavoidable...  (Unless say, something like a rapture happens... :D) - Who knows if this life really means anything afterwards. (On one perspective.)

Iran literally just attacked out bases in Iraq in the hour. We're going to war. You will probably die if you do.

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So question becomes whether you want to die from natural causes/no reason... or die trying to help someone/whoever/whatever.... and be remembered for your great brave cause.

This war, as are many wars fought in the last 50 years from the USA, are highly controversial. The Iraq war lead to practical genocide across the region with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. That's what will be attached to your name - you will be a hero only to the people who support the US war machine. You certainly won't be a hero to me, and if that's the reason why you're considering enlisting, I'm frankly disgusted - but concerned, that you should seriously reconsider if only for your own life.

If you want to be remembered as a hero, do something for your community that matters. But you don't have to be a hero - just being Fox is perfectly fine and most of us here would prefer you to stay that way.

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I feel like the U.S. is more likely to go after the bad guys... even so, it is likely no one country is perfect.... it would be a real shame if the "bad guys" were really the true good guys... so in that case, yeah.
And on another hand... the ability to live a civilian life for a time, and do what you want... is hard to pass up. And also offers a lot of opportunities.

There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" here, you're going to be used as a pawn for war and get killed. This idealism is not worth your life. I guarantee you that the opportunities you'll see in the civilian life are far more worth being a pawn of war.

This isn't also going into how veterans are often fucked over even after serving, many end up homeless or unable to get proper medical treatment. I know people who were raped in the military who receive compensation from the government. I'm not saying everyone involved is bad but I think the way the military is structured is designed is inherently toxic to many of the people who serve, which is why often they're such a mess when they return despite not even seeing any combat.

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Hmm.... what employers would be likely candidates for me? Hmmm...... While I have worked a job before, it was not a programming one...
You don't need a programming job to show experience, having projects can help you get a resume passed around in junior level positions. Look for positions with 0-2 years of experience in the language you specialize in. If you have experience with Java, you can pick up C# and maybe even C++ with some relative ease. A lot of object oriented programming languages use similar syntax and flow so if you understand one you can pick up knowledge in several. If you need help learning how to get started with Java or C# give me a holler since I have 5 years of experience in both langs.

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And while I'm confident in my ability to program in a reasonable amount of time for the average thing.... I don't really have much to show for it. And my main two projects are an embarrassment. Kinda. (Yoshi Magic and gsmagic)... They were a bit messy.... There were also a few other things... For example, I once got the Python For Everybody certificates from coursera.org, but I really don't think those should count... they barely have you do much Python beyond the first two courses.

Slap these on Gitlab or something, clean up the code and put them on your resume - they prove you can code.

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So it'll probably have to be entry level... but do we have any companies interested in hiring a bunch of entry level?

Absolutely. The industry is growing in labor force. If you have coding skill and enjoy working in code I highly recommend trying this route.
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 02:57:50 AM »

That is true that Iran is a threat to us. Yes. Or we a threat to them. :shrug:
I mean like... credit doesn't really mean that much to me... (In my opinion, I'd say the only real credit that should matter is what God thinks of you.)  .... it was more a what-do-you-got-to-lose type of thinking... but I guess you make a point that it could never be that simple.
And it is definitely without much research on the goings.
"Considering" being "in the back of my head" as the first post says.... that is to say, more likely not going to... unless I find something that somehow.... fits me. For some weird reason. I wouldn't want to do it without months of studying, most likely. (And knowing me, I'm probably too lazy. Even if I did somehow manage to qualify and join it (and say if I wanted to fight in the Iran war. (nope)), I would not be surprised to be kicked out roughly a year after.... just for the fitness mess.  Not even sure if I'd make it that long.  It is probably easier to gain weight/be unfit when you are a bit older, too! - What my interest are, I shouldn't have any business trying to stay on top of fitness. Even though some of it may be a bit refreshing... to make it a daily routine seems like way too much, though.)
Both of you have swayed me even more to the "don't do it" zone, though.
= There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" here = Depends.... Even if there were good/bad guys... it's probably better to avoid any unnecessary wars, though... and solve those issues the proper way... - That being, the quantity of wars should be considered when judging how screwed up America is.... but that's only if you really don't want to spend the time looking into it.
My knowledge of war history is really down in the mud... I feel like WWII (>50 years ago), would be one example of a war I'd likely be in favor of...  Because really, those innocent Jews needed saving.   (Does not mean I'd want to be actively in that war.)
A question I have = Does any U.S. entry-level soldier really want war? Or do they usually do it for other reasons/ like Atrius's situation. Hmm... (Even if you had pursued the Infantry field.)


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You don't need a programming job to show experience,
Yes, I know... but since it helps to have one (and can also give you easy references fitting the work), that is why I pointed that out.
I also know that having had a job *at all* can help some... (work references means you have experience working with people.)

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Absolutely. The industry is growing in labor force. If you have coding skill and enjoy working in code I highly recommend trying this route.
Yeah. Programming would be my most favorable option above all else so far. (Before and after this topic.)
I'm hoping to figure out which companies.... because I like to see the bull's eye on the target board before I shoot the dart. (And maybe even before I pick up the dart. :shrug:) And then turn around, find out I got the wrong ammo (or maybe it is broken) for the target board, go back to the store to get the right one. xD




(And now I await Atrius's post on how he fit back into Civilian life... which is super-critical in one of my views of military *anyway*.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 05:43:52 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 05:51:19 AM »

I just want to throw in a small word, but like.

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There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" here, you're going to be used as a pawn for war and get killed.

This part needs emphasis. And really, in the modern era, much of the world sees the USA as the bad guys because they often are. That's not going to be much different with this pending war with Iran, and when the dust settles in a decade the US will simply pick a new target (or three or seven) and try again. This is actually a part of why so many American tourists pose as Canadian when they go abroad; I've lost count of the number of times people have told me about how differently they are treated by others abroad when it is understood they are not American. I'm not even talking about countries like Iraq or whatever, since even people in generally safe-for-yanks countries like France or Scotland will do that.

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(not saying I will, but it has been a what if thought in the back of my head, at least...)

Out of curiosity, what put the thought back there? Because my take is that, knowing some of your skills and capabilities firsthand, you could easily put your skills to far greater use elsewhere and in an environment where you (as in, who you are and what you specifically can do) will be better appreciated.


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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 05:59:00 AM »

What concerns me about this approach is the idea that this is an appropriate way to achieve self discipline. Discipline isn't just a matter of submission training but also a passion and love in what you do, which the military can't provide in of itself.

I'd thank you not to assume I never had any passion or love for what I was doing, and just dismissing my entire 10 year career in the Military as "submission training."  While the Military does love to try to teach you drink their kool-aid, many of us do still have minds of our own.  Regardless, I'd like to think I'm still allowed to be proud of my accomplishments, and the work I did during my service.


While Roger has a much bleaker outlook on Military service than I do, it's still not something I would recommend to most people especially during a time of war.  I do want to point out that not all jobs in the military are combat related though.  My career field was titled "Scientific Applications Specialist" things would have had to be going pretty bad in the world for them to hand me a gun, and intentionally put me on a battlefield.  I still could have been deployed to a base in a dangerous area that was under attack regularly though.


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Exercising regularly...  so... even pass the entry level training stuff....?...  Is that even if you already still meet the standards? Ouch. (As in like... it is easy to fall off the standards in say... a week?)
It's not about how easy it is to fall off the standards, although it's very important not to.  Exercising is considered part of the job, and it's often an organized activity that's mandatory to attend.  It depends on your leadership at the time though.  Sometimes there are no mandatory exercise sessions, and sometimes the sessions are daily and unnecessarily intense.


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Wouldn't be surprised if in the end, that if I had done it too, that I probably would have found it worth it too... but .... it's probably better I not do it. At least not at this time. - What is the minimum amount of time you can do, anyway? Or do you like... have no say? (Off the top of my head/without research... I would think, hope, that you should be allowed to set a retirement date way ahead of time (e.g. like 1 year in advance)... but not sure how any of that works.)

Are there even any career types/programs that mimic military training stuff without actually being so hard-core about it? (Without requiring you to be willingly put in harm's way.)  Something that allows a person (not necessarily me) to know if Military would fit them. (More just curious of the nation's flexibility than anything.) - Who knows, could be interesting to take a class like that just simply for educational purposes, even if you don't intend to dive that deep.
My experience is all with active duty service, which at the time I enlisted had a minimum 4 year contract then an additional 2 years in the reserves.  I don't know a lot about the reserves since I was active duty my entire time in, but you could try looking at them.  You still have to go to basic training, but it's more of a part-time commitment although there is a possibility you could get called to active duty while in the reserves.


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Were these people given an opportunity to resign? (Approval likely required.) Or is there like... no way to do so even with such conditions? (Therefore resulting in being "fired" instead of a resignation.)
Nope.  There is a process to get medically discharged, but it's a looong and strict process.  If you get separated for failing to meet physical standards your service is still considered "honorable" though so it's better than a dishonorable discharge.

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And what types of punishments are we talking about? (50 push-ups? 50 laps? Clean some large equipment with a toothbrush?  Etc?  Is there even a thing called Isolation? (Which I believe is counter-productive))
Being put on forced physical training programs, denied reenlistment, reduced in rank, forfeiture of pay.  It depends on how much importance your commander at the time puts on PT, and how far they keep their stick up their butt.


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You are out now? So what is it you are doing now that you are out?  (Basically asking if you found a job without much trouble after having gotten out, and what type of job? (e.g. Manufacturing, Store Clerk, etc.)) Going to guess it is not related to what you were doing in military?
It's pretty close to what I was doing before I left military, I was able to use connections I made while I was in to get a job doing embedded firmware engineering for a defense contractor.

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Does this mean you are planning to continue on Forgotten Dreams? (Or do any other projects?)
Sadly since a lot of my work started involving programming I haven't had very much motivation to do it during my free time.  I haven't been working on any large programming projects at home for quite a while now...

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And when you were in military, what is the biggest thing you got in trouble for? If anything?  Did you keep track of how many times you got "ticketed"? (Or whatever it is they do.)
Well, during basic training where they literally punish you for turning around incorrectly, a TI threatened to turn me into a unicorn with a pen and to go home get his gorilla suit and go ape @#$% on me.  Basic training is just a mind game though, they're intentionally trying to put you under a lot of stress, and will screw around with you just to entertain themselves.

As far as actually getting in trouble after basic, unless you have a commander that's just an @#$%&*!# you usually have to legitimately screw up pretty badly, or not follow directions to the point of pure stupidity.  I only got punished as one of those people I mentioned who failed their PT test due to a medical issue.  I hyper-extended my knee tearing the cartilage, and had to get a partial menisectomy then failed the running portion of my next PT test.  Luckily I was able to limp along (pretty much literally) until the end of my enlistment without having to suffer through more than being put on a forced training program.

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Have you been gaining weight since you got out? (Sorry for embarrassing question.)
Yes, I got super lazy about exercising.  I gained 10 lbs and weight 170 now.

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Perhaps you should also update your profile here on GSHC, since you are not "currently stationed at Eielson Air Force Base," right now.
Oops.  I haven't been there in almost 7 years.
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 06:43:38 AM »

The U.S. is "bad"... :( That is unfortunate... surely they have a lot of good things too, right? But the bad is just magnified... because it is there.

But being viewed as bad... is kinda why I point out that quantity matters. - Don't get into wars that aren't for you. Unless of course, you are paying someone back a favor. (e.g. Like in an alliance, so you can maintain the alliance.)
I'm guessing the U.S. likes to play Hero all the time... and maybe they don't know what it is to be a Hero.

Roughly speaking... although, it might not be that simple either. :shrug:

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Out of curiosity, what put the thought back there? Because my take is that, knowing some of your skills and capabilities firsthand, you could easily put your skills to far greater use elsewhere.
That's an excellent question.  I still have to figure myself out. 
Probably curiosity.  - I'd like to also ask a simple, but complex question.
What does a person do to live on their own? (e.g.  When I looked, to buy a House for yourself without help is quite expensive. Even trailers run for five figures. =D I mean, you could take out a loan, but still.... If you found an even better option, you're sure to be kicking yourself. And pretty badly at high figures.)
I guess Charon already answered, though... but I mean like.... if you are less prepared than that.

And about skills/capabilities = I agree... especially since I'd guess that most entry-level jobs are too simple and repetitive for me? Hahah. I guess it would be cool to have a little bit of a challenge relating to something I'm interested in, but maybe not a huge challenge. (Need relaxation at some point, y'know.)
I always imagine there to be a way to slip between the seam if you have a goal, but drawing the line from point A to point B is difficult.... and that's assuming you can even SEE point B from point A.


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  I do want to point out that not all jobs in the military are combat related though.
Yeah. That's one of the factors I was thinking about when I even considered it in the first place.
Air Force Reserve = Hm? That's a part-time thing? ... Huh.... What is the minimum contract? 2, 4, 6 years, you think?
e.g. https://afreserve.com/computer-systems-programming = Best case scenario for me if I had did something in military, you think???
I'd like to understand more about this "getting called to Active Duty" if you're in Reserve. Is that like when the President signs a bill, or something less formal? :shrug:   What does the contract look like, anyway? Probably should look it up.
And if you do get called to active duty? What is the policy? Surely not a four year thing?

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How many years will I have to serve? ▾
Your initial military service obligation (MSO) will be for six years of participation (one weekend a month and two weeks once a year), plus two years of inactive status (you are no longer expected to attend drills, but you could still be activated by the President). Subsequent enlistments can be from two to six years.
Ah. 6+ years is a bit much for a test run. :thinking:
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How often does the Air Force Reserve deploy? ▾
Deployment depends on your AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code), the unit you're assigned to, and the needs of the Air Force at any given time.

Generally there is no set deployment schedule for the Air Force Reserve. It isn't unusual to not be deployed at all. If you get deployed once in six years, that would be typical, but it could be more than that.

Most likely your mission will be of a logistical or support nature. However, there are some specialties, such as Security Forces, that are more combat-oriented; and all Air Force Reserve members have to be willing to bear arms as circumstances require: for example, if you were assigned to an installation that came under attack.
logistical... I like that.


And cool @Atrius: ... But is that with a pay cut, since you no longer have to worry about dangers?

I see you updated your Bio, but you forgot to update the Occupation section of your profile. xD

For fun trivial... I wonder... Have numbers been posted for how many American soldiers been killed in battles for the last 10 years vs. how many different soldiers participated in those battles? (To get my hands on some percentages. Statistics is fun. =D )
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 09:44:12 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2020, 12:08:24 PM »

Fox, like I said before, I really think you should not be going into the military unless you want to get politically involved in what the military is doing right now, because the military is used as an international extension of the USA's reach. Everything the military does is political, which is why the military is highly controversial. The US military has done some truly despicable things in the last 50 years as well.

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What does a person do to live on their own? (e.g.  When I looked, to buy a House for yourself without help is quite expensive. Even trailers run for five figures. =D I mean, you could take out a loan, but still.... If you found an even better option, you're sure to be kicking yourself. And pretty badly at high figures.)
I guess Charon already answered, though... but I mean like.... if you are less prepared than that.

I figured it was fear... The best thing you can do for yourself is find other people nearby, maybe even your own family, to live with. Communal living is going to become more common as rent rates continue to climb and debt is commonplace. Explain to your parents that the situation for people in our age is simply not the same as the one they had, where rent is too high and we can't afford anything. You sound genuinely nervous. Also, focus on those career advice tips that I gave you. It IS possible to get a job without a degree in computers (I have), its probably one of the best fields for this.

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For fun trivial... I wonder... Have numbers been posted for how many American soldiers been killed in battles for the last 10 years vs. how many different soldiers participated in those battles? (To get my hands on some percentages. Statistics is fun. =D )
I think you might be more interested in the number of military casualties vs how many civilian casualties there are; this is one of the big reasons why people are not fans of the US military.



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I'd thank you not to assume I never had any passion or love for what I was doing, and just dismissing my entire 10 year career in the Military as "submission training."  While the Military does love to try to teach you drink their kool-aid, many of us do still have minds of our own.  Regardless, I'd like to think I'm still allowed to be proud of my accomplishments, and the work I did during my service.

lol OK, so what you're saying is that because it's not literally all you do, it's okay. I think it's fair to say that this culture of submission is passed through every action the military partakes in, even the small ones, right? Due to the strict hierarchy of the military? The military uses repetition through this culture to instill submission through your actions and schedule. Of course it's not as simple as "people listening to you" but if you were ordered to be deployed to Iraq or Iran right now you'd probably do it wouldn't you? You wouldn't think twice about why you're doing it or what you're going to do to the people there. And THAT is the true power of "submission training" - they know not to make you a drone. That's how the military maintains its power structure to be able to continue functioning as a single imperialist unit. Even if you didn't want to go you don't have a choice because the other option is desertion which has massive consequences. But a lot of people don't even have that choice because of the impact of how information is carefully distributed and the submission training aspect of the military.

Realistically you could learn most of the stuff you learned in the military outside of it, outside of things specifically relating to defense. Hell, if you were on a defense contract and got secret clearance you would probably have access to some of the same information even. So yeah, you learned some stuff but more importantly you also learned how to listen. Even in peacetime I would be dissuading Fox from the military but current times make it unequivocally a bad idea unless you want to blow up brown people in the middle east (and if that were the case I wouldn't exactly want him around on the forums anymore)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 12:10:29 PM by roger » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2020, 02:01:46 PM »

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Fox, like I said before, I really think you should not be going into the military unless you want to get politically involved in what the military is doing right now, because the military is used as an international extension of the USA's reach. Everything the military does is political, which is why the military is highly controversial. The US military has done some truly despicable things in the last 50 years as well.
Oh, at this point, I'm just simply gathering information....  When I looked up that page, I did not intend to actually apply....  And that 8 year contract is... jaw-dropping to say the least. No, it's actually worse than that, I need to check if my jaw fell off its hinges. :/

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I figured it was fear... The best thing you can do for yourself is find other people nearby, maybe even your own family, to live with. Communal living is going to become more common as rent rates continue to climb and debt is commonplace. Explain to your parents that the situation for people in our age is simply not the same as the one they had, where rent is too high and we can't afford anything. You sound genuinely nervous. Also, focus on those career advice tips that I gave you. It IS possible to get a job without a degree in computers (I have), its probably one of the best fields for this.
Well, right now, I have family... and will probably have them available for a long time... (assuming medical issues don't occur)...  So it isn't like an immediate need or anything...
But, I do certainly have an interest in the affairs of others who don't.... and maybe some day use that information to my advantage. (And maybe even pass that information along.)
Try not to read this as me being nervous...
I may be pretty sloppy, and my brain can be all over the place, though. xD ...


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unless you want to blow up brown people in the middle east
And I don't.




(Pick one.)

Results: No one harmed. No war at this time. Possibly more sanctions, but who knows what that'd be.



Hm... So about this communal living... I am assuming it is where you rent a room from someone living in a house? ... So kinda like the Group Home type of thing... well... I mean... that is a thing for elderly housing and mental illness housing, at least. Etc.
Hmmm.... How safe is that? (Not just from a violence standpoint.)
Uh... I guess I should look into it more.

Perhaps a mansion (with more rooms) instead of a normal house, that could be interesting.... but much to think about.

I'm afraid to wonder if communal living becomes popular, whether that will make it even harder for the average person to some day own a house, and do something big with it (that you couldn't otherwise do).... since well, if people have money again because they figured out their living arrangement... then wouldn't that also affect the prices of everything else. Hmmm.... I guess it is nothing much to really worry about if the economy is basically an up and down machine, but... shrug.
Oh yeah. Forgot about tenements. (Are those still a thing?)
So I guess check the price of everything, and well...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 06:07:39 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2020, 06:52:56 PM »

My thoughts on communal living (as a current student): It's hit and miss. I wouldn't say it's dangerous, rather unpredictable. Leases are a very poor measurement of a landlord's expectations (e.g. whether shoes, socks, or barefoot is allowed around the house; sending/receiving mail). One told me there was an AC when there actually wasn't. Another insisted on storing her personal belongings in my closet. I've had far better experiences renting rooms in houses with people my age and landlords who live elsewhere. I often hear the best reviews from a group of friends renting a whole house, but I haven't done that myself.

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Also, contribute towards the open source community and demonstrate your skills through building your own tools. In fact, Atrius's editor is a great example of what an employer would love to see.

While we're blown away by hacking tools and the work and skill that goes into making them (thanks Atrius!!!), I don't expect all employers to approve of it (I could have sworn I heard that somewhere, but I can't find the specific reference. A quick web search did give some similar opinions.) My guess is some places won't overlook it, but others won't take it seriously. I'd expect bigger companies with infamous interviews (e.g. Google, Facebook) would be far more welcoming of that than random smaller companies. This is nothing but a hunch.
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 12:29:38 AM »

Unpredictable.... yeah, that might be the word. What about experience at access to a bathroom and/or whether you could be up roaming during the middle of the night, etc?
How about access to the kitchen?

--

Yeah.
While I still think on one level it could still be worth a try....
It's pretty hard to not feel uneasy just thinking about what companies might actually think if they were to see the Editors... since it is kind of doing things we shouldn't really be doing. (e.g. We never asked Camelot if it was okay to 'hack' Golden Sun, and it might even come off as us probably being ROM pirates... Etc. (How am I going to tell them to get the game if they want to test my Editor?) And they may not even understand how Patching works.  And I feel, I probably wouldn't be in the interest of going through the motions of explaining those particular things.
But at the same time, I understand that you don't need everyone to accept you, you only need one person... and if anyone takes you, then that should be reason enough. I think usually, I'd like to know who I'm dealing with first, and if a gray area can be avoided (whatever it may be), then by all means, why not?



Also, something that came to mind that I remember hearing about from some years ago...
I think some places will even do things like run a script that looks for keywords in resumes, and if yours don't have certain keywords (most likely these keywords are in the job description), a person might not even look at your resume. Although, it has been a while, and I forget the details... there might have been laws requiring people to actually look, though. (possibly just those in Government, not sure which??)


(I think I should change the name of this topic to something along the lines of Careers or Living? So we can still talk about  this without actually going off-topic. Topics that are probably more interesting anyway. Hahahah!)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:22:47 AM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 04:39:30 PM »

if you were ordered to be deployed to Iraq or Iran right now you'd probably do it wouldn't you?
...
Even if you didn't want to go you don't have a choice because the other option is desertion which has massive consequences. But a lot of people don't even have that choice because of the impact of how information is carefully distributed and the submission training aspect of the military.
Seeing as I don't fall under the military hierarchy any more I would just laugh in their face.  When I was still in it was a matter of fulfilling the duties that I signed up for under the terms of my enlistment contract.  I signed up knowing that I was giving up some of my rights.  I signed up knowing that deployment was a possibility.  I signed up knowing that if I didn't follow orders I would be punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  I signed a contract, I took an oath, and I understood the potential consequences if I broke them before I was was ever part of the military hierarchy.

I think it's fair to say that this culture of submission is passed through every action the military partakes in, even the small ones, right? Due to the strict hierarchy of the military?
The idea of the military just being a culture of submission is severely flawed, the fact is there's a much bigger need and focus on teaching leadership qualities than submission. The Military's strict hierarchy would fall apart without leaders. It's there so the person who's next in line knows that they need to be the one to step up and take charge if anything happens to the people above them. It's there to ensure that things still get taken care of even if the current leadership is taken out, or if their line of communication is cut to those below them.

Think about it, if you were the one in charge in a combat zone, and got an arm or leg blown off how would you want the people around you to react?  Would you want to be surrounded by people depending on you to tell them what to do next who hate you because you're always ordering them around, or would you rather be surrounded with people ready and willing to take charge of the situation who respect you and would do their best to get you out of there safely because they know you would do the same for them?

The military hierarchy is directly related to rank which can be summararize as E1 - E9, where E1 is a fresh recruit in basic training, and E9 is the highest rank in charge of everyone below them. The E1-E3 ranks aren't expected to have been around long enough to know what they're doing yet. Yes, basic training is all about submission, and following orders without question. In a high stress situation where bullets are flying you want the new guy that has no idea what's going on to listen to your orders without question so they don't get themselves or anyone else killed.  Toward the end of their time as an E3 though, they're already being groomed to start taking on leadership responsibilities, and as an E4 they'll go to classes for leadership and maybe even be put in charge of a couple people. As an example, toward the end of my time as an E3 I was already leading 4/5 man maintenance teams out in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness.


Realistically you could learn most of the stuff you learned in the military outside of it, outside of things specifically relating to defense. Hell, if you were on a defense contract and got secret clearance you would probably have access to some of the same information even. So yeah, you learned some stuff but more importantly you also learned how to listen.
There aren't many places that focus on teaching leadership the way the military does, and that's the part of military experience that a lot of businesses that hire veterans are looking for.



And cool @Atrius: ... But is that with a pay cut, since you no longer have to worry about dangers?
Actually, my pay is double what it was when I was in the military.  In my opinion the career field I was enlisted in gets taken advantage of because military pay is standardized by rank, and doesn't take into account how much technical expertise the job requires.

I don't know how well I communicated this, but me joining the military was sort of a last resort to get my life on track.  I do not recommend it as a "plan A" for anyone unless they have family/close friends in the military and are already well aware of what they're getting themselves into.


Quote
Also, contribute towards the open source community and demonstrate your skills through building your own tools. In fact, Atrius's editor is a great example of what an employer would love to see.

While we're blown away by hacking tools and the work and skill that goes into making them (thanks Atrius!!!), I don't expect all employers to approve of it (I could have sworn I heard that somewhere, but I can't find the specific reference. A quick web search did give some similar opinions.) My guess is some places won't overlook it, but others won't take it seriously. I'd expect bigger companies with infamous interviews (e.g. Google, Facebook) would be far more welcoming of that than random smaller companies. This is nothing but a hunch.
My current job is directly related to a lot of the hacking work that I've done.  That said, it is a slippery slope, I work for a defense contractor where a lot of what I do is in relation to figuring out how we can be hacked so that we're better able to defend ourselves against it.  I think what's most important is characterizing the type of hacking that you've done as not being malicious in any way.  It's not nearly as concerning to employers to hear you were just modifying video games than it is to hear you were trying to hack into banks to steal money.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:39:14 PM by Atrius » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2020, 08:25:12 AM »

Let's see... the pay by ranks: https://www.airforce.com/careers/pay-and-benefits (Surprised they actually list this.)  =  Yeah... those are looking a little low... (if you don't account for any of the benefits... like 30 days/year paid vacation.) - I'd say E1 pay should be obtainable in most fair-paying jobs without a degree.  **Not sure if that is before tax? Maybe.** And the next ranks don't seem to have that much of an increase either.... With the type of commitment they require from people, I feel like they need to raise these values a bit. Make it simple and have it start at like $2k for E1, for example. And then have each rank-up be at least 10% more.  (Possibly rounded.) (Also, I think this would be easier to see in per hour amounts... but maybe this is like this because they might do their pay checks by the month instead of by the week. = Didn't check. But if that's the case, they should raise it even more for that slight inconvenience.)
I guess if it is something you can't directly turn into profit as easily, it would make sense for it to be somewhat lower than it should be.
(Also, as a civilian, if you have a house, you can already save some money by having a garden in your backyard (depending on state laws, I think.), etc... hm. - And you don't necessarily *need* college/tuition when there is the internet... The idea being that pretty much everything you can do in a classroom, you can see on a video. [Eventually.] Some topics may require a bit of hands-on, though. (e.g. doctors, police, firemen, etc.) But even in those topics, you can still learn a lot about them without actually doing much.)
So with that, I say they are more a "stepping stone" than anything... (Like a lot of other basic civilian jobs.) I feel like for a stepping stone... Their contract should have only ever started as a 1 or 2 year one, with the possibility of continued renewal by the same increments. (1 or 2 years). I'd say that amount of time is generally enough to put on a resume at least. (If you should choose to.) - Maybe 1 year increments is a little easier to keep track of. More than two years at a time starts seeming like abuse territory. (Even if a person really believes they want to do it, I still think it'd be abusive to not take into account developments in one's head that could make a person want to end the contract sooner. And a period as short as two years.... shouldn't be *too* hard to wait through (shrug) if you want to keep your contract honest.)
And yeah, definitely not plan A....


That's cool. About double pay outside of military. (I bet you're probably rich by now. Hahah... (For someone who might not own a business. That being, I'm not talking about multi-millions. - At the very least, I do think owning a business would be an excellent end-goal... I mean, even if it were like a good charity that helps people out or something. That way, it could thrive fully on donations, that would be a dream.)  = Do you still do overtime? I assume you did in the military at least?)
If you're around like $30+/h, that's interesting... I have a hard time imagining getting anything over $20/h without some sort of progress to a degree or proof (proof = The stuff Charon was talking about on a resume.) But I also think location might be a big factor as well, though.... :D And job hunting is always a pain to do on the internet... there's always something that basically says "don't pick me" or "you're not in a position to pick me." (e.g. If I start to see a long list of "REQUIREMENTS" rather than just "recommendations"... I already start wondering if it is a red flag.)




Is it possible to "test out of college courses" to get a degree quicker and for cheaper? Hmmm.... (Chances are, I would probably much rather study course material on my own anyway. - MEans it'd be fully self-paced, and don't have to spend too much time on boring stuff.)
 https://www.collegetransfer.net/Home/ChangeSwitchTransfer/I-want-to/Earn-My-College-Degree/Testing-Out-of-College-Courses
https://www.achievetestprep.com/computer-science-degree
(I'm asking in recognition that (as Charon says) I know you don't need a degree, but figure it could make it easier in the long run if there was something I missed. = Mainly looking into the option, did not yet make the decision to actually do it.)
I need to know the full price of a Bachelor in Computer Science when going for the cheapest possible. (e.g. If it could be done with just a couple thousand dollars at most (altogether) = that would be nice. And something I could perhaps see doing.  --- Unfortunately = https://www.collegecalc.org/majors/computer-science/ = FIVE DIGITS... per year.... (Extremely unreasonable price, it would never work for me.)  Am I buying myself a mansion here, or what? - When your degree is NOT based on what you know, but how much money you have. I forget how Financial Aid service works... I think I knew at one time... but ??? = Probably one major factor making it cost so much. No idea.) -- Even if the degree landed you a job, you'd probably be dead before you make all the money back... unless you got lucky. (On a level like winning the lottery.) And if later you find it doesn't work for you and you want to study something else???? Hmmm.... (Trying to find the logic in the pricing.)

1 year DIY/Test out degrees. :O
https://www.brazen.com/blog/archive/college/test-out-of-college-graduate-in-1-year-with-degree-by-examination/
https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2012/07/04/the-diy-degree/

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lets you graduate in one year instead of four, and costs roughly 1/20th the price of a regular degree…with the exact same legitimacy and earning power.
Yeah, I like that. Probably still expensive, but if 1/20th the price, I can start seeing a possibility. :D :D Further research required, though.

Worst case scenario, you get stuck with an illegal diploma mill that you don't know is one. :/ (At the very minimum, if you choose an online college, make sure it is a .edu.)

Probably will still want to check a degreeless option for Plan A. For several reasons. One being that it takes time to figure out how DIY works. And also that I believe an employer shouldn't be requiring something that's normally expensive, even if there is a cheaper route. (Unless of course, they tell you the cheap route to use.)



Somewhat unrelated:
My guess for the best way to not be hacked(?) (Which is often times not an option.) = Keep your systems off the internet, and have at least two offline back-up copies. (At least one method in which a magnetic bomb can not wipe it, and one stored off site in case of say... a fire... or whatever... (e.g. Do you trust your fire box?).)
And if offline security is important... consider watching LockPickingLawyer/Bosnianbill on youtube. One must recognize security is hard, and for most circumstances, the Bowley lock is probably good enough. :D (Which is highly pick-resistant/not pick-proof.)
At the same time, I'm not really qualified to give advice on security. Hahah. But I certainly do like the study. (Both when it comes to software, as well as actual devices like physical locks.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 05:09:25 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 04:52:52 AM »

Let's see... the pay by ranks: https://www.airforce.com/careers/pay-and-benefits (Surprised they actually list this.)  =  Yeah... those are looking a little low... (if you don't account for any of the benefits... like 30 days/year paid vacation.) - I'd say E1 pay should be obtainable in most fair-paying jobs without a degree.  **Not sure if that is before tax? Maybe.** And the next ranks don't seem to have that much of an increase either.... With the type of commitment they require from people, I feel like they need to raise these values a bit. Make it simple and have it start at like $2k for E1, for example. And then have each rank-up be at least 10% more.  (Possibly rounded.) (Also, I think this would be easier to see in per hour amounts... but maybe this is like this because they might do their pay checks by the month instead of by the week. = Didn't check. But if that's the case, they should raise it even more for that slight inconvenience.)
The pay is a bit better than that after you've been in a while because you get BAS (Base allowance for sustenance, basically food money) and BAH (Base allowance for housing) which aren't taxed.  Base pay is, and those numbers are before taxes though.  Unfortunately you don't get BAS & BAH until you're allowed to move out of the dorms though, though there are some exceptions this probably won't be until you've been in about 2-3 years.


So with that, I say they are more a "stepping stone" than anything... (Like a lot of other basic civilian jobs.) I feel like for a stepping stone... Their contract should have only ever started as a 1 or 2 year one, with the possibility of continued renewal by the same increments. (1 or 2 years). I'd say that amount of time is generally enough to put on a resume at least. (If you should choose to.) - Maybe 1 year increments is a little easier to keep track of. More than two years at a time starts seeming like abuse territory. (Even if a person really believes they want to do it, I still think it'd be abusive to not take into account developments in one's head that could make a person want to end the contract sooner. And a period as short as two years.... shouldn't be *too* hard to wait through (shrug) if you want to keep your contract honest.)
And yeah, definitely not plan A....
It's expensive to put someone through basic training then a technical school specific to their career field.  They want 4 years so they get their money's worth after training you.  As for it being a "stepping stone" the pension used to be pretty generous making it worth doing a full 20 year career, but it's been reduced a lot recently.  It used to be after you served for 20 years you would get paid 50% of your average base pay over the last 3 years of your service for the rest of your life, but now it's only 30%.  You would have a hard time finding anywhere in the civilian sector where you could retire with a pension at around 40 years old.


That's cool. About double pay outside of military. (I bet you're probably rich by now. Hahah... (For someone who might not own a business. That being, I'm not talking about multi-millions. - At the very least, I do think owning a business would be an excellent end-goal... I mean, even if it were like a good charity that helps people out or something. That way, it could thrive fully on donations, that would be a dream.)  = Do you still do overtime? I assume you did in the military at least?)
If you're around like $30+/h, that's interesting... I have a hard time imagining getting anything over $20/h without some sort of progress to a degree or proof (proof = The stuff Charon was talking about on a resume.) But I also think location might be a big factor as well, though.... :D And job hunting is always a pain to do on the internet... there's always something that basically says "don't pick me" or "you're not in a position to pick me." (e.g. If I start to see a long list of "REQUIREMENTS" rather than just "recommendations"... I already start wondering if it is a red flag.)
I'm gonna answer this a bit out of order to keep what I think is the most important thing I have to say for last.

Overtime: I did a lot of it while I was in the Military, and it's funny but I'm actually contractually obligated not to now.  The government can be cheapskates sometimes, and work it out to where they'll make sure they're not paying more than they have to on contract.  Not that they won't find somewhere else to throw money away, but let's not get into that.

I wouldn't worry as much about "requirements" on job listings.  When I got my new job, I didn't meet half of their listed "requirements" and I don't have a college degree.  I wrote targeted resumes for each position that I applied for to show that even though I didn't have the education or certifications that they "required" I had work/hobby related experience doing what they were looking for.  Yes, I absolutely included my hobbyist programming, hacking Golden Sun, and making the editor on my resumes.  I did previously say I used my connections while I was in to get my current job, but I also got interviews at other companies based on just my resume and actually turned down two other positions I was offered that I similarly didn't meet the "requirements for.  Not all of them do, but there are a lot of places that favor experience over education and certifications.  It doesn't hurt to apply even if you don't meet the "requirements" the worst they can do is say no.



I would say I'm well off now, but rich?  I'd like to offer you a bit of wisdom, something that has been life changing for me and I think could be the same for you if you take it to heart.  It's pretty simple, but to get the most out of it you have to be willing to take some time to learn about managing money and rethinking what "rich" really means.

When I left the Military I was able to afford turning down 2 job offers before taking the job I currently have.  That's not to say I immediately got a bunch of offers, I spent 3 months unemployed but easily could have afforded to go an entire year without worrying about being able to pay my bills.  The 2x pay increase I have now is nice, but I was easily doing well enough without it.  I mention this because a lot of people scoff at what I want you to learn thinking that it can't possibly be applied for someone on a low income, but I've been applying since I first joined the Military.  You have the pay tables, you can see exactly how much I was earning when I started: a little over $20,000 a year.

It may not be immediately clear how valuable this advice is, but it mainly boils down to one rule: Live below your means, always spend less than you earn, and save the rest.  That's really the most important thing I think anyone can learn about money, but like I said, to get the most out of it there's more to learn.  If you keep saving without spending your savings it will continue to grow, and there are ways to invest your savings so it will grow even more.  To learn more I would recommend starting out by reading this 16 page document titled "If You Can - How Millennials Can Get Rich Slowly" it focuses on the goal of saving for retirement, but the lessons are just as as applicable even if that's not your goal right now.


Hmm...  I Hope that last part doesn't come off as something out of a scammy infomercial...  All I really hope is for you to do the research yourself so you have the knowledge, make of it what you will.
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 07:01:24 AM »

Quote
The pay is a bit better than that after you've been in a while because you get BAS (Base allowance for sustenance, basically food money) and BAH (Base allowance for housing) which aren't taxed.  Base pay is, and those numbers are before taxes though.  Unfortunately you don't get BAS & BAH until you're allowed to move out of the dorms though, though there are some exceptions this probably won't be until you've been in about 2-3 years.
Quote
It's expensive to put someone through basic training then a technical school specific to their career field.  They want 4 years so they get their money's worth after training you.  As for it being a "stepping stone" the pension used to be pretty generous making it worth doing a full 20 year career, but it's been reduced a lot recently.  It used to be after you served for 20 years you would get paid 50% of your average base pay over the last 3 years of your service for the rest of your life, but now it's only 30%.  You would have a hard time finding anywhere in the civilian sector where you could retire with a pension at around 40 years old.
I mean, that's nice to know.... But I'm not really sure how much that is. (The other allowances.)
And the thing with the extra training in the beginning being expensive is one reason why I was considering that it could be two years over one....  However, it is kind of hard to put numbers on things, and usually I feel like if it doesn't work in two years, then maybe something else needs optimizing.... but again, I don't really have all the numbers. (e.g.  There's no way I could effectively improve something I don't know.)

Perhaps everything really is accounted for in the benefits. (But then I thought.. well, civilian jobs often have benefits too, so should I count it? When likely the pay is suppose to be one of the most important elements... I guess it shouldn't be ignored, at least.)
The pension does sound pretty good at 40 years. I kind of doubt that I would retire then, if I have a job at that age, but having it as an option does sound like a good thing.

Quote
I wouldn't worry as much about "requirements" on job listings.  When I got my new job, I didn't meet half of their listed "requirements" and I don't have a college degree.  I wrote targeted resumes for each position that I applied for to show that even though I didn't have the education or certifications that they "required" I had work/hobby related experience doing what they were looking for.  Yes, I absolutely included my hobbyist programming, hacking Golden Sun, and making the editor on my resumes.  I did previously say I used my connections while I was in to get my current job, but I also got interviews at other companies based on just my resume and actually turned down two other positions I was offered that I similarly didn't meet the "requirements for.  Not all of them do, but there are a lot of places that favor experience over education and certifications.  It doesn't hurt to apply even if you don't meet the "requirements" the worst they can do is say no.
While that is certainly true... It is nice to find applications that have some thought put into them as well. I guess it is more of a weed-out process.
Still, even if I do find jobs that I could get accepted to without meeting most requirements, I still should at least get to learn about those companies first, and that is also another complex part. Maybe a pick three potential choices, and choose one.

Either way, a lot of this is more/less research for right now, though... so off-chance I wait until I'm ready.


Rich = Well.. of great value (Not necessarily limited to money... but money can often times be a huge part of it, for some reason.) - I guess what I more or less meant is that you probably have life figured out. (And that was suppose to be meant as a compliment.) (I actually started second guessing myself on whether I should have deleted that and some other things not long after posting, especially since like... post was getting long and starting to look cluttered. Before you know it, I think I might have went overboard. xD)
(Although, if you ask me, true richness is not about money at all. xD  Starts pointing to the Bible. (Christianity.) This is true richness. :D)

Assuming I were to move out right now, I'm going to take a *guess* that I too could probably live a year unemployed and using my own money. (To start off with, a car might not even be in the equation.)
And if you can have a garden set up, even better for the latter 6 months. (Not that I do much gardening = Saying I don't have a whole lot of experience... but I do know when I was a kid, my grandparents had a whole garden plot near their home but not physically at their home... (Yes, they did a lot of gardening.) ...  those grandparents are deceased now, though..., and the plot is now just like any normal address. (It has a house on it.) And it, as well as their home, were sold. (There's actually a bit of a story about that... that in a way, is sad. But yeah, that's about when they'd be dying. The grandmother would live for a few more years in a nursing home... I remember she never wanted to end up in a nursing home.... but then her daughter (parent's sibbling) tricked her into giving the power of attorney and stuck her there. - Oh gosh, I could go on and on... - We weren't physically there in the court room to see how it was given, though. I remember my parents saying an attorney told them they (my parents) weren't supposed to be there or something. - I believe it was advertised to my grandmother that she'd be going some place temporarily (as if the doctor wanted it, I think.).... (She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's/dementia back then, by the way.).... but actually it wasn't temporary at all. It was not advertised as a nursing home, but that is what it was. - Sometimes we'd check on her at the nursing home and take her out places.)
Things I remember them planting? Strawberries, tomatos, butter beans, green beans, squash, watermelon... maybe other things. Would have bags full of butterbeans, and would pluck all the beans out... and also a line of tomatoes by a series of windows to rippen... and usually end up jarred. (Air-tight sealed.) - I remember the grandfather actually owned a business at some point too... that I think was kinda given to him by some guy (forget the story), and he kept his name in the business name (While also adding his own name.) ... The main thing is that my grandparents were definitely well off.   The grandfather also made cabinets by the way... so basically architectural stuff. (And he also was in the military at some point too, by the way. Probably(?) due to a draft, but I don't remember. And probably for Vietnam War (trying to guess off memory/don't remember exactly.))

There's also another sad part to the story = They weren't just victims... we were as well. Since the house we were living in was in the grandparent's names... (Since the idea was that we would be buying it for cheap from grandparents without the worry with interest rates/etc.) ... and well.. you can guess what happens after power of attorney.
We were suppose to be buying that house, but then parent's sibling was saying that it was rent.... - So what do we do? We go buy another house... anyway, that was about a decade ago.

All is not lost, though... because inheritance.... (which is actually slowly draining away.... my mother is jobless and has problems with her knees/legs if she stands on them for a few minutes or so... she did try getting a stem cell injection in both knees... which has helped over the year.... But on the bright side, my father does have a job that pays more than $20/h (thanks to them being there a long time.) .... (Sorry, I'm not going to give an exact figure, but I used $20/h as the number to compare to because that would be my goal.. I think my true value is worth much more than that... but... not like I care to have millions, but to just be well off... Hahah. You lose the money anyway. (B/c of death), but even if you didn't.... same difference to me.)

(There's so much to this story, I may have left some stuff out, and I'm probably not even half way through. =P Anyway, we can leave that for another time.)



Quote
It may not be immediately clear how valuable this advice is, but it mainly boils down to one rule: Live below your means, always spend less than you earn, and save the rest
I remember some saying (Was it on Steve Harvey? OR something else?) About the poor acting rich, so they remain poor... and the rich acting poor so they remain rich or something... (I think the quote was different, but that's what it amounted to.)


Quote
and there are ways to invest your savings so it will grow even more.
Yeah, I really need to get in on that. Just keeping it in the bank (Even if it is a "with interest" account. (At such small values, I might as well be getting nothing.)) ...  is basically like lighting a candle.... it just melts away from inflation.
e.g. I know about CDs (Certificate of Deposits), but don't feel like they're worth it in the end. :shrug: (Locking your money for a higher interest rate that is usually STILL below the inflation rate.)
A lot of these other things, I might know about, but don't really understand them... So I guess it is worth a thorough research.

I also remember something about calculating all your expenses... and double it... and make sure you have enough to pay that amount. (That allows you to account for unexpected expenses... such as a tire blowout for example.)  (Something from 12th grade.)

Anyway, I shall check that article out.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:25:23 AM by Fox » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
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Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 02:21:45 PM »

Wow... Very cool to read all of this.
I'm a member of Exército Brasileiro, so it is nice to learn other people experiences in the US...
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December 24, 2019, 09:33:09 PM
Fox: Even just plain Editor work can make some difference. = At least these forums are indexed on the Search engine. I was also curious about whether to um... go through all the topics on these forums and take all the important stuff out/placed into a folder for a bit of organization. Would be a bonus since if something ever happened to this forum, or if we ever wanted to start afresh again, it wouldn't be that difficult to do so.
December 24, 2019, 09:23:03 PM
Fox: One thing is for sure. This place has become completely dead. (Mostly because of Discord.)  = I don't think much will happen with this forum unless I, Salanewt, or someone else does a thing.
December 24, 2019, 09:18:05 PM
Fox: Probably not?
December 24, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
Luna_blade: I suppose this is the last Christmas of this forum? 
December 24, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
Luna_blade: Yay thanks for the coins
December 19, 2019, 04:39:45 AM
Fox: Okay, another thought... "gsmagic" could be the code name/project name... and "Golden Sun Magic" could be the more formal official name... (As in using both names.)  -  I still need to look into these other games as well... so who knows if it could be better to call it Camelot Magic if those should ever be supported to a decent standard.  Would probably be a long time from now, though. As I can be pretty lazy.
December 18, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Foreclosure: gsmagic is fine
December 17, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
Fox: Also. I call my program "gsmagic" and not "GSMagic" =P (Not asking for correction/I being silly)... Had to call it something, so picked something short.  Maybe I should rename it to Golden Sun Magic later. *shrug*
December 17, 2019, 05:35:04 PM
Fox: (And "Golden Sun" instead of "GS" to reduce confusion that would likely not be there anyway... when "Golden Sun" doesn't take up much space to start with. (Imagine being new and thinking GS meant GameShark, or some other oddity. Ew.)) - All just thoughts...I'm still going with most of this not mattering that much, though.
December 17, 2019, 05:12:55 PM
Fox: "Misc. GS Hacking" = That name looks odd, so I'd probably just go with "Golden Sun Hacking"
December 17, 2019, 05:08:05 PM
Fox: I tempted to also suggest the Editors can go in the first category. Since the Editor is the reason this place exists in the first place. (I think.)
December 17, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Fox: (combined = Not meant to be taken literally... but rather.... to generalize things more, since it apparently looks like we don't need the extra space no one is using.)
December 17, 2019, 04:48:49 PM
Fox: Worse still... we've only used those for Golden Sun content.... and there's not much there.
December 17, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Fox: E.g. Maybe everything in "Assets & Discussion" could be combined with "Creative Works".... I don't feel like sound and art apply to general hacking anyway... that only comes into play when you have tools to insert them.
December 17, 2019, 04:40:26 PM
Fox: categories and/or forums
December 17, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
Fox: Everything else seems to be about right, though. Perhaps some categories could be combined(?), but doesn't really matter that much.
December 17, 2019, 04:33:03 PM
Fox: (I still think The Community section fits best at the bottom. =P)
December 15, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
Salanewt: Heya! I'm planning to get the demo up today, but if you can't wait then it's already available on the Discord.
December 15, 2019, 04:12:27 AM
Fox: (Then sell the badges on the Trade Center for a very high price... and give a lot of active people coins to buy them with, so they can basically transfer the coins to me if they want something... Gosh I could be a naughty hoarder. =P)
December 15, 2019, 04:06:19 AM
Fox: I'd buy up all the stock for each item too... but man... I think I'm too lazy for that. =P
December 15, 2019, 04:01:24 AM
Fox: There we go. That should be all of them.
December 15, 2019, 03:25:32 AM
Fox: Duplicates will still show up as separate entries on the profile as well. Interestingly enough.
December 15, 2019, 03:18:25 AM
Fox: (Well, one of each badge, at least.)
December 15, 2019, 03:18:08 AM
Fox: Now I can buy up the whole shop. :3
December 14, 2019, 08:58:08 PM
Foreclosure: Guys, I really want to see the AI overhaul demo... please fast! :D hehehe
December 14, 2019, 08:57:33 PM
Foreclosure: I sent 2 thousand coins for ya bro
December 14, 2019, 01:31:38 AM
Fox: In my opinion, even with the old system where it was set up so you could only coin people once per hour... I think it would have been far more fair if we could have also coined ourselves hourly.... since people have favoritism for certain people.... I feel like that could mitigate it some. At least to get badges that people care about the most. - Unlimited coining sounds like a step further than that, which is interesting... :)
December 14, 2019, 01:12:00 AM
Fox: Do note, that people can't coin themselves... but I feel if you got someone who's willing to transfer the coins you give them back to you... it is as though you have that coin option on yourself anyway....
December 14, 2019, 01:07:29 AM
Fox: Go to any of my forum posts, look for where it says Coins... under that, you'll see [increase] , clicking that will give me coins. You won't lose anything for doing so. Click it as much as you like... Under that, you should see Send Money (a faster option if you got the coins). Use that link to transfer your coins to me of any amount you want. (e.g. Put in 2000, means I get 2000, you lose 2000... but if I've already given you 2000+, you don't really have to see it as actually losing anything.)
December 13, 2019, 03:42:39 PM
Foreclosure: How do I return favor, sir?

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