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Author Topic: Feature Refining Thread  (Read 45174 times)
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Fox
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« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2012, 08:45:44 PM »

You are welcome,

I've also had this idea for a code hack to duplicate that chart for the second team: Instead of taking up more space, one could probably make them 16-bits, and if it is party 2, get the second 16-bit.. That way, when we go to edit, we can make anyone have the same class without duplicating classes, One problem, if I did this, the editor may become slightly incompatible. (?) I am not sure if it grabs these values in any way? (Hint the Auto box.)

Edit: This is what I mean (Attachment) It takes up the same ammount of space.. so..


* classsepidea.png (20.61 KB, 1132x400 - viewed 788 times.)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 10:05:20 PM by Teawater » Logged

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Kide
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« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2012, 11:52:03 PM »

Yeah, after I saw that thing I was surprised it used so much space.

About your idea, wouldn't it work kinda similar to what we already have? Maybe if you explain this part
Quote
That way, when we go to edit, we can make anyone have the same class without duplicating classes
a little more, as I didn't understand what you're trying to say there.

Also, I don't know it for sure, but I believe the Auto box only uses info concerning elemental level needs for classes, and not the types themselves. At least at the current time. Since this is going to be changed... that could change as well. I think it won't cause any incompatibility issues, though.
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Fox
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« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2012, 01:20:52 AM »

I meant if we didn't want party 2's class type chart based off party 1's chart. Right now, without Atrius's patch you are forced with 2 pairs of PCs having access to the same classes (Isaac and Felix; Ivan and Sheba), with Atrius's patch, none of party 2 shares any classes with party 1, so you'd have to duplicate them in order to achieve that. But with my class patch idea, what you should be able to do is choose which pair of elements should refer to class types listed in party 1's and which should not.

Here's an example that wouldn't exactly work, but..., maybe I want to make Jenna use some of Isaac's classes... (For example, if it was mono-type classes, One could make the MarsMars slot on Party 2's class type chart the same as VenusVenus in party 1's class type chart.


Technically, that wouldn't work if Jenna has any other elements besides Venus with a higher level than 0 (since MarsMars a pure element.) So bad example, haha. The others might work, though. For the example you would probably edit party 2's MarsVenus and/or VenusMars.

Edit again: Though, nothing says that you can't make another class with just Mars requirements for the same class type. I imagine we could combine all the mono-classes into one class type, this way? That would total up to two different class types, one for Party 1's and the second for Party 2's.)






I wonder what it would be like if each character had their own chart...would it perhaps clear up some of the confusion a bit more for those who don't understand it? - since in the continuation of my example, I think Felix would have Isaac's classes if he had Mars djinn. - Edit: I imagine this to also come in handy for those who want all their highest elemental level to start at maybe 1.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:58:22 AM by Teawater » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2012, 02:50:21 AM »

Honestly, I'd like to see a patch that separates it into four groups, and another that separates it into eight.  It'd allow for many more approaches for hacks, and would allow for branching classes.
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« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2012, 01:55:21 AM »

@Teawater: Ok, I think I understand it now. The main purpose of your idea would be to save some space if you're planning to share some classes between characters, right? This could be useful for some people, although its use is somewhat... restricted, maybe?

Quote
I imagine we could combine all the mono-classes into one class type, this way? That would total up to two different class types, one for Party 1's and the second for Party 2's.)
While this could be done, I don't think it would be much needed. All it would do is use a less quantity of class types, right?

Quote
I wonder what it would be like if each character had their own chart...would it perhaps clear up some of the confusion a bit more for those who don't understand it?
Well, I think that's what Role said in here
Quote
Honestly, I'd like to see a patch that separates it into four groups, and another that separates it into eight.  It'd allow for many more approaches for hacks, and would allow for branching classes.
Would you know how to do something like this, or how much trouble it would be to do it?

Also, I have a suggestion. Since the class type chart can be indeed changed, and quite easily, I wonder if the editor could do that for us. And maybe it could work with Teawater's patch idea as well. I don't know if this would fall into "stuff the editor isn't suposed to do" area, but it could be useful for some people.
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Atrius
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« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2012, 02:04:25 AM »

Quote
I wonder what it would be like if each character had their own chart...would it perhaps clear up some of the confusion a bit more for those who don't understand it?

More variables typically means more confusing.


If I did make the table editable, and/or splittable. I would HAVE to make it so that the editor only uses the class type value with no way to automatically detect it, or set it more easily than just manually setting the number.  You'd be creating a situation where it's possible to make a class that's aligned as primary Mars, secondary Mercury for one character to be pure Jupiter/Venus for a different character.
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Fox
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« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2012, 02:34:46 AM »

Quote
with no way to automatically detect it
That means you'd have to add something where the user can select the table used in the detection. Probably still confusing. But even if it didn't work, it still doesn't mean you can't implant the feature in. Maybe in a section for Advanced Users under Code Patches.  Though, in my opinion, I think it would be best to illustrate what the Class Type value means than making it automatic, anyway.  I remember in 11th grade learning something about knowledge being freedom, so the more knowledge you have on something, the more you can freely use it.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:39:47 AM by Teawater » Logged

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« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2012, 02:51:00 AM »

Aye, just because some things get complicated doesn't mean we can't have advanced users who understand it.  Christ, Atrius, some of the people are delving head first into ASM, I think many of us can handle some advanced features.
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« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2012, 11:46:36 AM »

It's not like I wouldn't do it, there are already features in the editor catered specifically to advanced users (Hex editing for map code, anyone?)  I just prefer to try to keep things that can be presented in an easy manner accessable to everyone in a way that will make sense even if they're not intimately familiar with th underlying system.


Hmm...  Selecting a table used for detection?  No, the tables could be written in a way that automatic detection just doesn't make sense if too many odd combinations share the same value..  But I just came up with a good idea on how to present it that should work great for both beginners, and advanced users, thanks Teawater.  Yes, this will work out fantastically, I'll do it.
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Fox
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« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2012, 11:42:28 PM »

You are welcome, Atrius!

Hmm, this is still feature refining.. so I guess I can say this here. I have been doing a bit more research on the asm scripts npcs use... and I was wondering how easy it would be to get the editor to display these known values? I noticed the bl instructions in between, but they don't seem to make you lose that r5 value, so... (Most functions in Golden Sun seem to keep r5+ safe, so..)



Perhaps maybe it has something to do with the conditional (bne)? No idea... (In that case, I'd save the pointer and current variables that hold your register data.), keep reading the code checking to see of the address being read matches the address in the conditional, if it does... I don't know...? Do some data comparisons between the old register bank and the current one?? That would determine which ones are made "variable/non-constant".), get rid of pointer... and so on... Hmm.. It does take a bit of thought.... - Scratch that, I think the one with the lower address should be the one being read and dealt with...  - Except, it is hard to imagine what to do when the conditional points to a lower address (going backwards.) You probably just read it, anyway, using the address of the branch as the "stop" location. If you meet up with a bl instruction you already scanned for, you can compare values for constants.  As for stopping at the stop location... eh, dunno, I'm thinking of For events, and Do events, but they probably don't matter for this anyway.)

God of All Um... Teawater! I'm the one who lectures everyone!


P.S. As for the npc base functions... I think the argument matches the NPC number? Maybe, I would like to confirm this, though. I been looking around Daila keeping an eye on two values...

02030160 and the ones that are located in say... 16-bit 0200959C for the Item Shop Keeper in flooded Daila. I have not yet found out how those values are moved to 02030160, though. (When talking to the NPCs.)

 I wonder if that helps any.

5920 = Hm? You want a boat?[30]
5921 (Yes) = What kind of insensitive[3]
5022 (No) = Of course not![3]


Perhaps I will look up what these unknown functions do, as well. Hmm...


« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 03:59:26 AM by Teawater » Logged

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Remember kids! Before you go on that interview, remember to wash your hands in teawater! *Coughs on hand* (Excuse me, I just coughed up a little teawater, so they're still clean!) You wouldn't want that hiring manager to be unimpressed.

May the force be with you!
Shoo! Why does it smell in here?
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Rolina
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« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2012, 03:32:17 AM »

I look forward to it, Atrius. ^-^
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« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2012, 06:45:39 AM »

You seem to be working under the impression that the argument detector reads the code in the correct order.  It in fact reads it in reverse from the function call it's working on, if it encounters anything that would put the register in an unknown state it quits.  To begin with that bne call turns r5 into a variable, it's like an if statement (If r0==0 { r5++ } else {r5+=2 })  Trying to interpret an if statement with zero context would be difficult enough reading the code in proper order, but backwards?  At best the dialogue() call from 8270 is still screwed, as soon as it hits the command b $00008274 at 8266 it can't really make a guess how r5 made it past there.

I suppose though, that bl commands could be scanned to see if they push the register that's being watched.


You should also be aware that to begin with the argument scanning function is watching r0 here.
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September 10, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
Fox: Small corrections = If those images were uploaded via an account, you can still get them ... but Sept 16 is the last day.
September 10, 2019, 12:27:46 PM
Fox: I'm suprised many of the badges weren't put on the server... and now that tinypic has deleted them, they're gone forever. xD
September 05, 2019, 01:06:04 PM
Frog: wow, it's nice to see this place is still around :o
September 05, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
Fox: "them" as in their posts.
September 05, 2019, 12:07:03 PM
Fox: As in... look at all those users.... paiseo, notto1122,    jirapon, pubg1, nutseo6.... All of them. Are spambots with Thai language in them. xD So many of them... and nothing productive coming from any of them.  I bet it's the same person.
September 04, 2019, 08:48:35 PM
Fox: Every post with Thai language in it. I'm going to immediately assume is spam. For now one, until proven otherwise. xD
August 22, 2019, 12:53:38 PM
Omx7: A shame that I only recently discovered this website. Hopefully, we see Golden Sun 4 in the near future.
August 15, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Fox: Golden Sun Slacking Community = I like that, Misery! Perfect April Fools joke?
August 13, 2019, 02:37:11 AM
Salanewt: Oh hey Atrius, long time no see!
August 12, 2019, 11:37:45 PM
Fox: (Someone else discovered that, not me.)
August 12, 2019, 11:33:42 PM
Fox: So um. It looks like abilties in the class editor are being put back in as a byte for GS1?
August 12, 2019, 08:02:58 PM
Fox: Also, it seems most of us have moved to the Discord. In case if you were wondering where the forums activity went. Maybe come by and check it out. But it is just a suggestion, you don't have to.
August 12, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Fox: I figured that was a possibility. If you are guesting, it is hard to know how frequently you check back. It's great to hear from you, though. :)   What have you been up to?  Is Forgotten Dreams still being worked on, or has that been cancelled? (I'd guess you don't have much time for it. It's been years since we've last heard about it.)
August 12, 2019, 12:48:12 AM
KingAmiti: Still great work Atrius :)
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Atrius: This place was a HUGE part of my life, and even though I don't have the time that it really deserves to take care of it, I will love it forever, and never forget about it..
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Atrius: If anyone wants to make a replacement site then go for it.  Although I plan to keep this place up for the foreseeable future, it isn't really maintained anymore.
August 11, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
Atrius: Sometimes he comes by and looks around without logging in.
August 08, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
Fox: Does Atrius still come here? He hasn't logged in since last year. Maybe it is time to create a replacement site so we can have our full encyclopedia... Then again, I'm too lazy. Especially to get all that done by myself. :/
July 06, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Salanewt: Oh, yeah there isn't an animation overhaul for GS1 sadly.
July 03, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
ryancaesar12345: GS2 Animation Overhaul w/ Baseline  ips patch in golden sun 1?

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