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Rebalancing Ideas!

Started by thenightsshadow, 30, September, 2009, 02:24:00 PM

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thenightsshadow

Good luck with that.  My first attempt to change Felix/Sheba's classes failed, so what I'm planning to do now is fool the game.

Uh, best of luck?

This post has been edited by thenightsshadow on Sep 30 2009, 01:25 PM
Don't bug me too much.  After all, the 'shadow is always Sirius.

Aile~♥

Sheba: Wind Seer > Wind Magician > Wind Mage > Wind Magister > Wind Oracle
Wind Seer:
HP: -20%
PP: +40%
Attack: -20%
Defence: -10%
Agility: +30%
Luck: +0%

Wind Magician:
HP: -10%
PP: +60%
Attack: -10%
Defence: +0%
Agility: +40%
Luck: +0%

Wind Mage:
HP: +0%
PP: +80%
Attack: +0%
Defence: +10%
Agility: +50%
Luck: +0%

Wind Magister:
HP: +20%
PP: +100%
Attack: +10%
Defence: +20%
Agility: +60%
Luck: +0%

Wind Oracle:
HP: +40%
PP: +120%
Attack: +20%
Defence: +30%
Agility: +70%
Luck: +0%



Lv|Psynergy...|
01|Slash......|
01|Delude.....|
03|Whirlwind..|
06|Ward.......|
10|Wind Slash.|
11|Dull.......| (learned at Wind Magician class)
12|Sleep......|
15|Boost......| (learned at Wind Mage class)
17|Bind.......|
18|Tornado....|
22|Resist.....|
27|Empower....| (learned at Wind Mage class)
30|Sonic Slash|
33|Poison Flow| (learned at Wind Magister class)
37|Blunt......| (learned at Wind Magician class)
44|Tempest....|


Boost/Empower are Psynergy techniques that boost the Elemental Power of allies during battle. Boost increases the Elemental Power of 1 party member by 40 and costs 8 PP, and Empower increases the Elemental Power of all active party members by 20, and costs 16 PP.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Oct 1 2009, 12:33 PM
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

Ooh, nice. I like these ideas. Perhaps, if Atrius knows and will tell us, there might be a location somewhere in the ROM's data that tells the game which characters are which classes (or we can find it ourselves). Since I am sure that there is something like that, then I suppose all that has to be done is to change Felix and Sheba's classes, and then change all of their abilities.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Sep 30 2009, 03:10 PM
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

The problem is, apparently Sheba and Ivan share the same variable or whatever for their classes, and so do Felix and Isaac.

Edit: Another class idea!
This one isn't a base class, it's actually an item class
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

Oh wow, that isn't good...

Perhaps there is a way to change which class a character uses with ASM?

And then again, supposedly anything is possible in a HEX editor, so there might be more values somewhere that can separate their classes. I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens.

For example, one location might have the numbers be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, (and so on) and there are four characters. Two of these characters use 1 and 3, but the other characters use 2. It might be possible to go to where that number is read from, and change it, so each character reads a different number (and each number is a class). So, the way I see it, you have...

V1: 1

F1: 2

J1: 3

M1: 4

V2: 1

F2: 5

J2: 3

M2: 7

V = Venus
F = Mars
J = Jupiter
M = Mercury
#: = main Golden Sun version
# = class

Somewhere in the data, you might have (for each character) a value that determines which character reads which number. Anyway, Atrius knows much more about Golden Sun's data than I do, so he should be able to tell us if this is how Golden Sun is organized for classes or not. Obviously, the example classes are not in order.

By the way, since this example is based on what I think might be how Golden Sun takes care of charing classes, then I can not guarantee that it is correct, or that it works like this.

A mere speculation brought to you by Salanewt.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:  
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Zach

If I'm not mistaken, TNS found out how to seperate them (or was it someone else?)

Aile~♥

I have edited an earlier post with my idea for what is essentially a Blue Mage class.

Did you read TNS's post earlier? The one where he said, "uh, best of luck?"
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

Not sure. Anyway, it would be nice if we could find out who exactly figured it out, since I would like to separate Sheba from Ivan and Felix from Isaac in my hack as well.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:

Edit: I did, but not sure about zach.

Edit 2: Seems like a good idea, but doesn't Final Fantasy use similar classes?

This post has been edited by Salanewt on Sep 30 2009, 06:57 PM
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

Yeah, but you have to be hit with the move in Final Fantasy, not in this game though. Anyway, what's the harm in taking a VERY good idea?

Oh, right, because Role will scream at me that this isn't Final Fantasy. I honestly don't like Final Fantasy that much either, but sometimes they have a good idea, and I figure, why not take them?

People will probably spam Total Defence, and Double Fang is guaranteed to be a favourite against bosses.

I just realized that no-one will use Double Fang, cause they'll already have the much more powerful Triple Chomp. I'm gonna go fix that right now.

Edit: Another class idea. This time, I'm increasing the differentiation between Piers and Mia.
Piers: Defender > Aqua Knight > Aqua Gallant > Guardian > Protector
Defender:
HP: +20%
PP: -20%
Attack: +0%
Defence: +30%
Agility: -20%
Luck: +10%

Aqua Knight:
HP: +30%
PP: -10%
Attack: +10%
Defence: +50%
Agility: -10%
Luck: +10%

Aqua Gallant:
HP: +40%
PP: +0%
Attack: +20%
Defence: +70%
Agility: +0%
Luck: +10%

Guardian:
HP: +50%
PP: +10%
Defence: +90%
Agility: +10%
Luck: +10%

Protector:
HP: +60%
PP: +20%
Defence: +110%
Agility: +30%
Luck: +10%



Lv|Psynergy...|
01|Ply........|
02|Froth......|
04|Douse......|
05|Aqua Defend|
06|Avoid........|
12|Drench.......|
12|Diamond Dust.| (changes to Diamond Berg at Guardian class)
14|Froth Sphere.|
15|Counter-rush.| 16 PP
17|Ply Well.....|
20|Aqua Wall....|
25|Aqua Guard...|
30|Deluge.......|
35|Pure Ply.....|
40|Froth Spiral.|
45|Aqua Fortress|



Aqua Defend/Aqua Guard: This Psynergy gives the target a defensive aura. Aqua Defend reduces damage taken by the target by 50%, and costs 3 PP. Aqua Guard reduces damage taken by the target by 90%, and costs 10 PP.

Aqua Wall/Aqua Fortress: This Psynergy gives the entire party a defensive aura. Aqua Wall reduces damage taken by the party by 50%, and costs 10 PP. Aqua Fortress reduces damage taken by the party by 75% (or the closest to that amount possible), and costs 25 PP.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Sep 30 2009, 09:14 PM
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

You are right. Besides, if Final Fantasy games were children, then the people who make them would be broke, so... Why not copy their ideas if they are actually good?

Besides, I have heard once that all stories are identical, except that they have been rearranged and their details modified.

Have a nice day.
:MercurySet:  :MercuryDjinni:  
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

I edited another class idea into a previous post. Just thought I'd let everyone know.

Oh yeah, and: Froth series should have a chance of causing additional PP damage.
Cool series should have a chance of inflicting Stun.
Whirlwind series should have a chance of ignoring 30% of defence. They do end up getting dropped from a height don't they? Armour would just hinder them!
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Aile~♥

First off, has anyone found a way to give Felix a different class from Isaac, and Ivan a different class from Sheba?

If so, then:

Felix:
Earth Seer > Earth Mage > Gaia Mage > Gaia Druid > Gaia Oracle
Earth Seer:
HP: -10%
PP: +30%
Attack: -10%
Defence: +10%
Agility: +0%
Luck: +10%

Earth Mage:
HP: +0%
PP: +30%
Attack: +10%
Defence: +20%
Agility: +10%
Luck: +10%

Gaia Mage:
HP: +20%
PP: +40%
Attack: +20%
Defence: +30%
Agility: +20%
Luck: +10%

Gaia Shaman:
HP: +40%
PP: +50%
Attack: +30%
Defence: +40%
Agility: +30%
Luck: +10%

Gaia Druid:
HP: +60%
PP: +60%
Attack: +40%
Defence: +50%
Agility: +40%
Luck: +10%


Lv|Psynergy.....|
01|Growth.......| (removed at Gaia Mage class)
03|Cure.........|
06|Thorn........|
06|Punji........|
07|Gaia.........| (learned at Gaia Mage class)
10|Mad Growth...| (removed at Gaia Druid class)
12|Cure Well....|
14|Helm Splitter| (changes to Annihilation at Gaia Druid class)
14|Briar........|
14|Punji Trap...|
17|Taint........|
24|Mother Gaia..| (learned at Gaia Druid class)
26|Wild Growth..| (removed at Gaia Oracle class)
28|Potent Cure..|
36|Nettle.......|
36|Punji Strike.|
45|Poison.......|
54|Grand Gaia...| (learned at Gaia Oracle class)



Thorn series now has a chance of inflicting Poison.
Taint and Poison are 3-target.
Gaia series now has a chance of causing the targets to miss their next turn.
Punji series now has a chance of inflicting Stun.
Isaac's class remains the same as before.
Felix can now equip Staves, but can no longer equip Axes.

Sorry for stealing your staggering system idea Role, but it was a good idea. Normally I find that I don't agree with your ideas, but this one was awesome. I didn't use it the way you would have, but I think I used it to good effect.

Ivan: Thunder Seer > Thunder Mage > Thunder Sage > Thunderblader > Thunder Archmage
Thunder Seer:
HP: +0%
PP: +20%
Attack: +0%
Defence: -10%
Agility: +10%
Luck: +0%

Thunder Mage:
HP: +10%
PP: +30%
Attack: +20%
Defence: +0%
Agility: +30%
Luck: +0%

Thunder Sage:
HP: +20%
PP: +40%
Attack: +40%
Defence: +10%
Agility: +50%
Luck: +0%

Thunderblader:
HP: +50%
PP: +40%
Attack: +60%
Defence: +20%
Agility: +70%
Luck: +0%

Thunder Archmage:
HP: +70%
PP: +60%
Attack: +80%
Defence: +40%
Agility: +90%
Luck: +0%


Lv|Psynergy....|
01|Bolt........|
04|Ray.........|
05|Impact......| (Learned at Thunder Mage class)
06|Zap Shot....|
06|Flash Bolt..|
08|Thunderclap.| (Learned at Thunder Sage class)
12|Paralyze....|
14|Storm Ray...|
21|High Impact.| (Learned at Thunder Mage class)
22|Blue Bolt...|
26|Thunderbolt.| (Learned at Thunder Sage class)
27|Zap Burst...|
36|Destruct Ray|
48|Zap Cannon..|
50|Thunderhead.| (Learned at Thunder Sage class)



Zap Shot/Zap Burst/Zap Cannon is a Psynergy series that uses the Bolt series animations and hits a single target. Each one has 5 higher strength then the corresponding move in the Fume series, and costs 2 more PP.

Paralyze now affects 3 targets.

Ray series now has a chance of inflicting Stun.

I'll continue this in a later post.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Oct 1 2009, 12:42 PM
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

thenightsshadow

A few notes:

- I haven't yet failed at being able to (getting Felix/Sheba their own class), I just can't do it the usual way.

- Whirlwind ignoring armor does nothing since it's a Psynergy.

- Lots of the classes I see are pretty bad statwise (110% HP yet 230% PP?  That's like Min/Maxing...a bad idea to FORCE it).

This post has been edited by thenightsshadow on Oct 1 2009, 10:01 AM
Don't bug me too much.  After all, the 'shadow is always Sirius.

Aile~♥

Psynergy uses the defence stat, no?
hmmm... If only we could edit defence...
I could make a boss that is essentially immune to physical attacks, and the only way to hurt it would be Psynergy.

Min/Maxing for Sheba isn't forced, because if you don't like her insane mage skills in her base class, then give her other Djinn! The good thing about that insane amount of PP is that she has no problem casting Whirlwind outside of battle. I plan on making other Min/Maxed classes (though they won't be base classes). The only time you actually HAVE to use Sheba's base class is before you get your first Venus Djinni. Chances are, you won't even fight a random battle before that point. But, despite all this, you're right. I should decrease her PP a bit and give her more HP.

You may also notice that Sheba's base stats add up to +20%. So do Piers'.

Garet's going to need a stat overhaul at some point.

Edit: Since I do not have a PC, it would be really nice if someone would do this stuff for me. Some of the alternate base class ideas may have to wait (though you could just set Wind Seer to my class idea for Thunder Seer, and Squire to my Earth Seer idea, for testing purposes.) The Beast Mage idea can already be implemented fully, however, as can the Aqua Knight series.

Edit2: Since Psynergy doesn't use Defence, then what would be a good effect for the Whirlwind series? hmm... maybe a chance of lowering Resist? Unless, of course, there is an effect that uses the enemies Defence stat against them (their defence is ignored and added to the attack's strength). If there was one of those, then I'd be very happy to make it happen occasionally for Whirlwind.

Edit3: Another class idea! Air Mage (2WI, 1F) > Air Knight (4WI, 2F) > Air Striker (6WI, 5F) > Air Lord (8WI, 6F).

Air Mage:
HP: +10%
PP: +0%
Attack: +10%
Defence: +0%
Agility: +20%
Luck: +0%

Air Knight:
HP: +30%
PP: +20%
Attack: +30%
Defence: +20%
Agility: +40%
Luck: +0%

Air Striker:
HP: +50%
PP: +40%
Attack: +50%
Defence: +30%
Agility: +60%
Luck: +0%

Air Lord:
HP: +70%
PP: +50%
Attack: +70%
Defence: +40%
Agility: +80%
Luck: +0%



Lv|Psynergy.....|
01|Shriek.......| 5 PP
02|Wing Beat....| 5 PP
06|War Cry......| 7 PP
07|Beam.........| (learned at Air Striker class)
08|Speed Boost..| (learned at Air Knight class)
10|Wing Flutter.| 8 PP
11|Lunar Slash..| 5 PP
14|Twin Beaks...| 6 PP (changes to Mad Zephyr (12 PP) at Air Striker class)
15|Banshee Howl.| 12 PP
21|Cycle Beam...| (learned at Air Striker class)
28|Wing Stroke..| 16 PP
36|Mach Speed...| (learned at Air Knight class)
41|Searing Beam.| (learned at Air Striker class)
54|Rising Dragon| (learned at Air Striker class)
60|Haste........| (learned at Air Lord class)
75|Double-time..| (learned at Air Lord class)



Shriek, War Cry and Banshee Howl now hit three targets.

Speed Boost/Mach Speed are Psynergies that boost the Agility of their targets. Speed Boost raises the Agility of a single target by 100%, and costs 9 PP. Mach Speed raises the Agility of all active party members by +50%, and costs 18 PP.

Haste/Double-time are Psynergies that give their targets extra turns. Haste gives one ally +2 turns, and costs 15 PP. Double-time gives all allies +1 turn, and costs 30 PP.

Edit4: Removed the Whirlwind series and replaced it with the Beam series. Removed Vanish and replaced it with Rising Dragon. Otherwise, this would have to be a base class, as it would have had only Jupiter Psynergy.

This post has been edited by JamietheFlameUser on Oct 2 2009, 01:43 PM
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]