[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

[Caledor]

Hey Cale,

Could you explain in detail how the new Reflux works? I was trying to pop it often in the Poseidon fight to get 4 counters from the AoE and it appears to not exactly work as I'd hoped. I'm gonna guess for multi-targets it just picks one of the party to counter?

Yes it's exactly like that.

[VardenSalad]

Alright, thanks.

Also, I just picked up the Warden class for Janna and I'm seeing the Veil and Screen psynergies. Their descriptions are both just "?", I just wanted to give you the heads-up. I'm guessing they're RES-increasing?

Thanks for keeping the Minerva Helm as +MaxPP strong for warriors as the Ceres' Helm was in TBS. All the Lemurian Spring items just look great too, you know?

[Aile~♥]

IIRC, the one who counters is the right-most member of the party to be hit. So if the full party is hit and in default formation (Felix, Jenna, Sheba, Piers), then Piers will be the one to counter-attack.

[Caledor]

Also, I just picked up the Warden class for Janna and I'm seeing the Veil and Screen psynergies. Their descriptions are both just "?", I just wanted to give you the heads-up. I'm guessing they're RES-increasing?

Sorry for the screw-up... i've uploaded 1.22b to fix it. And yes, it's a mercury equivalent of ward, like impact and demon spear.

[VardenSalad]

@jamie: Huh, testing shows you're correct. I wouldn't have initially guessed that. Thanks!

@Cale: Since I just finished Lemuria and am running around the Great Western Sea grabbing rusty weapons and Djinn, is there anything you want feedback up to this point? Or anything you think I should for in the future to record my reaction?

[Rolina]

1: I already considered the possibility of creating MT healing... it's not like i scrapped it but it wasn't convinced enough with it to put it into practice. I do agree on making healing more expensive. In my patch i already raised the cost of the highest tier of ST healing and of all full party healing. Pure Wish is the one that suffered the most from it, with is BP reduced to 320 and PP cost raised to an enormous 48. This was also done to make healers opt for PP regeneration and thus have less offensive capabilities due to lower power/maxPP.

And yes, i tend to follow formulas as well, but i'm not so strict with them... i'd rather say that i use them as a starting point but if things don't "feel" right to me i have no qualms in drifting from them.

What i'm totally against is give every element ST/MP/FP healing. My magic number for those powerful abilities is 2. Up to 2 elements are allowed to have them, that's why i made the venus impact, mercury ward and mars revive.

Also, if you're intrested i managed to implement and test regen abilities, using lord squirtle's advanced regeneration. I wanted to make a mercury djinn with that ability (i'll always leave unique or very powerful effects to djinn).

2. all i can say not is that i'll think about it... but maybe the most i'll do is to slightly nerf/replace some psynergies.

3. i didn't really get this one but every dual classes has 6 tiers and obviously the jump from 4 to 5 djinn increases the stats by the half of what gaining a tier normally does (since usually there are 2 djinn between a tier and the next). The same concept has been applied to the tri-elemental's jump from 8 to 9 djinn (and will be applied to mono elemental classes if i add the 9-djinn tier), and adapted to item classes, where there are 3 djinn between tiers.

4-5-6. Roger

As a side note... why Pray over Ply? You just don't like Ply or there's something else?

Let's start with the simple thing first!  Ply looks like it's a typo on Camelot of Japan's part.  When looking at the naming conventions and the story stuff revolving around it, not to mention it's freaking dark dawn icon, it looks like they meant to say Pray, not Ply.  However, this can go either way, and is mostly a matter of preference, since technically Ply is the correct translation.  Naming conventions are important IMO - they give an element a sense of identity.  It's own flavor, so to speak.  

1:  Oh, heavens no!  Just pick the ones you need!  All of them have been made, but there's no reason to force all of them in there - only the ones that make sense to be used.  Having a global table like this just helps when it comes to looking up the names, strength, level learned, and cost of spells.

@Regen:  Oh?  Well, in that case, here's my personal take on it.  I've never actually been able to test it, though, so just use it as kind of an example of how it could be done.

Regen spells were designed to be stronger than normal healing spells, but the healing occurs over several turns.  Regen is considered an effect, and does not stack with similar spells.  If a stronger regen spell is cast, it overwrites the older version.  Weaker regen spells imply have no effect.  Regen, as a general rule, is a third as strong as a comparable full strength healing spell, but heals over the course of 4 turns.  Regen spells are considered effects, not buffs, and are immune to the effects of break-type spells.

Single target regen is based on single target healing.  They can be learned as soon as Tier 1 (0-1 djinn classes).

.                 ,-------------------------------.
 Single Regen    | Element | Rng | Lv | PP | Pow |
,-----------------+---------+-----+----+----+-----|
| Warmth          |    Mars |   1 |  2 |  3 |  20 |
| Balmy Warmth    |    Mars |   1 | 12 |  9 |  55 |
| Soothing Warmth |    Mars |   1 | 31 | 19 | 145 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Regen           |   Venus |   1 |  4 |  4 |  25 |
| Regen Well      |   Venus |   1 | 15 | 10 |  65 |
| Potent Regen    |   Venus |   1 | 34 | 21 | 165 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Breath          | Jupiter |   1 |  5 |  5 |  30 |
| Fresh Breath    | Jupiter |   1 | 18 | 12 |  75 |
| Vital Breath    | Jupiter |   1 | 36 | 26 | 185 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Bless           | Mercury |   1 |  6 |  6 |  35 |
| Bless Well      | Mercury |   1 | 20 | 13 |  85 |
| Pure Bless      | Mercury |   1 | 38 | 26 | 205 |
`-------------------------------------------------'

Full Party Regen is based on full party healing.  It can be learned at the same time as full party healing - from Tier 3 onwards (4 djinn classes).

.                 ,-------------------------------.
 Party Regen     | Element | Rng | Lv | PP | Pow |
,-----------------+---------+-----+----+----+-----|
| Pulse           |    Mars | ALL |  5 |  5 |  15 |
| Warm Pulse      |    Mars | ALL | 15 | 10 |  35 |
| Soothing Pulse  |    Mars | ALL | 37 | 21 |  65 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Recover         |   Venus | ALL |  7 |  6 |  20 |
| Recover Well    |   Venus | ALL | 18 | 12 |  40 |
| Potent Recover  |   Venus | ALL | 37 | 24 |  80 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Calm            | Jupiter | ALL |  8 |  7 |  25 |
| Tender Calm     | Jupiter | ALL | 22 | 14 |  45 |
| Soothing Calm   | Jupiter | ALL | 40 | 28 |  95 |
>----------------+---------+-----+----+----+----<
| Sanctify        | Mercury | ALL | 10 |  8 |  30 |
| Sanctify Well   | Mercury | ALL | 24 | 16 |  50 |
| Pure Sanctify   | Mercury | ALL | 43 | 29 | 110 |
`-------------------------------------------------'

Because of the diminishing effects of multi target healing, there is no regen version of that.  Healing and Regen effects are mutually exclusive - you can have ST Healing OR ST Regen, and can have FP Healing OR FP Regen.  However, you don't have to stick to only one type.  It's entirely possible to have both ST Regen and FP Healing, etc.

If nothing else, this gives you some decent options for spell names.

3:  Here's the types of classes and how I refer to them, with Isaac's original classes as example:

Base Class (5 Tiers, mono-element) - Squire Line
Dual Symbiotic (6 Tiers, second element is symbiote) - Brute Line
Dual Adjacent (5 Tiers, second element is neutral) - Swordsman Line (renamed Crusader Line in Dark Dawn)
Dual Opposite (5 Tiers, second element is opposite) - Apprentice Line
Tri Adjacent (3 Tiers, Neutral is main, Symbiote is secondary) - Dragoon Line
Tri Opposite (3 Tiers, Opposite is main, Symbiote is secondary) - Ninja Line
Tri Hybrid A (2 Tiers, Symbiote is Main, Neutral is secondary) - Isaac does not have a class in this category in vanilla Golden Sun
Tri Hybrid O (2 Tiers, Symbiote is Main, Opposite is secondary) - Samurai Line
Item Class (depends on the item.  Vanilla form has 4 Tiers, all non-base elements given equal representation) - Dark Mage, Pierrot, Tamer, etc
Overdrive (essentially a Tier 6, 7, and 8 class.  Spell cast to activate, turns consume djinn) - Introduced in Dark Dawn, Sveta's Wild Animal class line

So, why 6?  For the same reason the Venus Lighthouse restored Satty and Menny, a couple of Mars adepts, to full power so they could become the Fusion Dragon.  The same reason the lit Mercury and Jupiter Lighthouses froze the way to the Northern Reaches in a solid block of ice.  Symbiotic classes play off of how in the lore of the games, the elements of Mars and Venus, and the elements of Jupiter and Mercury will resonate with and empower one another.  It's for this reason that they have a 6th tier, though for balance reasons I treat Dual Symbiotic classes as having tiers 0.5 - 5.5.  Statistically, they need to be so that they're not too powerful.

This is also the reason that Tri-Element classes always have the symbiotic element involved.  If it helps, here's a graphic for how I approach it:



If you need anything else, just let me know~

[Caledor]

Now i get that class stuff. However, I applied a much simpler system, where the stat multiplier is determined only by the number of djinn the tier requires, with starting classes always being counted as 0 (to equalize duals with mono in the first tier). Obviously this is not too strict and some adjustment were made especially for early classes. When making classes I always start from the top tier (for checking average on my class chart), then i make the other tiers by subtracting 10% HP and 5% to every other stat except luck per djinn lost, and finally i make the needed adjustment by comparing all classes. So stat wise, all dual classes are the same, but in my mod everyone can see that the symbiotic have the edge on the others, either due to psynergy sets (Miko, Wizard) or raw strength that usually belongs to tri elem. classes (Brute, Seafarer).

Nice to see that i wasn't the only one to think about the Tri Hybrid A class set.

And thanks for the names suggestion... choosing names has always been very time consuming for me. Guess what, it's the only reason why I haven't released the 9-djinn tier for base classes yet.

[VardenSalad]

Basically, I have a problem with the most powerful classes (statistically speaking) having access to some rather unique but very powerful elemental psynergy, even though their lack of elemental levels suggests that they wouldn't have access to these spells or that higher elemental level classes would have access to comparably stronger spells.

Look at the Ninja class, for example. It's top level requires (for non-partial classes) 5 and either 4 or 4 . But look at the psynergy it brings to the table: Annihilation, Thunderhead, Death Leap, Punji Strike, Carpet Bomb, Shuriken, and Hurricane.

Annihilation is an incredibly strong move. But there's nothing even close to comparable for the classes that specialize in the element. And the Ninja gets access to Thunderhead, the strongest AoE Jupiter psynergy. Punji Strike and Carpet Bomb are very reasonable, being either unique or weaker and cheaper than a counterpart series (Blast to Fire Bomb). Shuriken is unique and or above-average usefulness. Hurricane is slightly weaker than a counterpart (Whirlwind) which is perfectly fair.

The Ninja class got a lot right in Punji Strike, Carpet Bomb, Hurricane, Shuriken, and probably Death Leap. But Annihilation and Thunderhead look crazy. If I want to do big Venus things (Annihilation, Grand Golem, Grand Gaia, Sabre Dance, Call Demon (look at that @#$%. You can get ATK x1.9 for 2 Venus Djinn and level 26.)), then I need a big Venus elemental level. Not, like, 2, 3 Djinn. I know, a lot of those spells are class unique. But they get them for such a pittance.

If I have 9 Venus Djinn, my Venus spells should be pretty great. At lvl 13, I AM Venus psynergy. And I get, like, Quake Sphere. Or Punji Strike. Maybe the dual and tri elemental classes should keep a lot of their heavy-multiplying single attack Psynergy, but the mono-elemental classes need to bring a lot to the table in terms of higher base power spells and AoE. Punishment is a great addition, as are Meltdown and Tyrfing to close some of the gap.

I guess if you're afraid of people summon-rushing, give the higher tiers some really nice stuff and make losing Djinn really hurt (easier said than done, I know). There's a lot I'm seeing in the higher level dual elementals with picking up Plume Edge, Liquifier, Odyssey, and Diamond Berg at higher class levels. I really, really like seeing that.

(I didn't talk about the potential to use Djinn in battle. This post is probably too long anyway.)

[Caledor]

I think it all boils down on how you look at things. We could hack this game following a thousand of different concepts, and as long as someone chooses one and sticks to it he/she'd be right. Rolina has her own idea of class balance that revolves around roles (attacker, debuffer, tank, caster etc), yours would probably revolve around elemental levels, the original developers had their own idea and i have mine.

What I'm saying is that while you're obviously right, it's the starting point that's different here. In my mod, I choose to separate the classes in warriors and mages. The Ninja is a warrior mage hybrid focused solely on offense. He has the lowest HP and highest PP out of all warriors, top offense both "physical" and "magical"... the downside is that he can't do anything else. Zero support, debuff and heal abilities on top of a fragile body.

As you can see elemental power matters nothing to me. I just made an exception for warriors in their base class, since;
1. I thought that would be ok for them to learn a strong spell since they're so focused on a single element.
2. they are still not as good as mages due to the pp multiplier.

The problem with summon rushing, other than break the game is that their whole point is to kill the enemy before he has a chance to do anything, so it doesn't matter at all how much "hurts" losing djinn.

BTW, I don't know if you're referring to the original game, but in my mod thunderhead is not the strongest AoE Jupiter psynergy and Call Demon isn't a multiplier spell.

[VardenSalad]

Oh yeah, you're totally correct that there's no magic bullet for balancing classes. There's a dozen+ different metrics one could use to balance the classes around and then you would still have to deal with the existence of summons. And if the game was perfect, what would we even be doing here?

I'm enjoying the mod a lot. Putting the Gaia Blade and Kikuichimonji in the store at Contigo was a nice surprise.

[Caledor]

Finally managed to rearrange names for mono elemental classes due to the added tier. The tiers now are 0-2-4-6-8-9 djinn, names follow.

Isaac: Squire - Knight - Gallant - Nobleman - Lord - Dragonslayer
Garet: Guard - Soldier - Warrior - Baron - Phalanx - Aegis
Ivan: Bolt User - Magician - Illusionist - Spellcaster - Archmage - Sorcerer
Mia: Water User - Officiant - Cleric - Saint - Angel - Seraph

Felix: Rogue - Knave - Outlaw - Veteran - Conqueror - Tyrant
Jenna: Flame User - Witch - Hex - Fire Genius - Fire Master - Incendiary
Sheba: Wind User - Sybil - Mystic - Priestess - Pythia - Prophet
Piers: Mariner - Privateer - Skipper - Captain - Commander - Admiral

Thoughts?

[Salanewt]

I mostly like the names, although I'd opt for something more like "Pyromancer" or "Siren" for either of Jenna's fifth or sixth tier classes because they are currently two classes in a row that begin with the same word in a line that begins with a similar word. Never really liked Fire Master in the original game either; personal preference though.

Otherwise: I haven't tried it out yet, but nothing else really stands out as being off or bad to me. I can let you know when I get around to trying them out later.

[VardenSalad]

"Dragonslayer" seems kind of out of place in Isaac's hierarchy. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but I figured it would be something like "Regent" or "Sovereign".

[Caledor]

"Dragonslayer" seems kind of out of place in Isaac's hierarchy. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but I figured it would be something like "Regent" or "Sovereign".

I know... Believe it or not "Dragonslayer" is the japanese name of his slayer class. Don't know why it was reduced to slayer... it fits space wise. I like your suggestion though. If i manage to make it work in italian as well i'll use it.

@Lord Squirtle. Pyromancer didn't even occur to me cause its italian equivalent "Piromante" is used for her "Flame User". In fact all those -mancer names are used for the "X user" classes. Siren sounds too "watery" to me though...

[VardenSalad]

Is the japanese "Dragonslayer" supposed to reference something mythological in particular?

[Caledor]

Is the japanese "Dragonslayer" supposed to reference something mythological in particular?

Nothing comes to mind. This is written on the etimology section of squire's class page on the wikia:

All classes in this series are knightly ranks or roles of traditional fairy-tale hero-knights (Slayer or Dragon Slayer). The Japanese name, Swordsman, shows a more focused element on swordfighting, with Gallant being known as Swordmaster.

[Rolina]

Now i get that class stuff. However, I applied a much simpler system, where the stat multiplier is determined only by the number of djinn the tier requires, with starting classes always being counted as 0 (to equalize duals with mono in the first tier). Obviously this is not too strict and some adjustment were made especially for early classes. When making classes I always start from the top tier (for checking average on my class chart), then i make the other tiers by subtracting 10% HP and 5% to every other stat except luck per djinn lost, and finally i make the needed adjustment by comparing all classes. So stat wise, all dual classes are the same, but in my mod everyone can see that the symbiotic have the edge on the others, either due to psynergy sets (Miko, Wizard) or raw strength that usually belongs to tri elem. classes (Brute, Seafarer).

Nice to see that i wasn't the only one to think about the Tri Hybrid A class set.

And thanks for the names suggestion... choosing names has always been very time consuming for me. Guess what, it's the only reason why I haven't released the 9-djinn tier for base classes yet.

Another thing to point out - the DA and DO classes have a fun little thing that happens to them.  While they don't have a 6th tier, they DO have an additional bump in power in specific stats.  One thing you could easily is to look at each stat and give it some weight.  In this system, some stats weigh higher than others - Attack and PP are offensive stats now, and PP doubles as fuel.  They're weighted high.  LUCK, HP, and DEF are important for defenses.  They're weighted in the middle.  While they're important, they're not as breakable.  Agility, however, is weighted low.  Its only real use is turn order, and though.  In small doses, it has little effect.  In larger chunks, the cumulative effects could have notable effects, especially if you buffed enemy speeds.

While having higher stats is great and all, a great way to counter the strange half steps and the like would be to tweak the stats.  You could transfer some stats from high weighted stats down to lower weights.  Or, if the class is supposed to be statistically powerful, make it so that they have a harsh difference in speed, allowing many enemies to go before them.  Sure, Agility is low weight by my opinion,

Look at how vanilla does Brute, for example.  Statistically, it's a powerhouse.  It also has crap for luck.  Hits like a truck, and is easily stopped by control spells.  Stun, poison, Insta-KO - this class has crap for defenses against them.  It's well balanced, in retrospect.  Wizard, on the other hand, has High Fuel, High Speed, two expert spells, Area Healing, and easily the best buff in the game.  Oh, and it's defenses become average at 4th tier, so those are decent too.  Sure, it has hiccups when it comes to smooth viability.  Between spell upgrades, it can easily be outclassed for a few levels, but each time it reaches the group of levels it learns spells at, it becomes crazy strong.  Oh, and it's tied for second best luck in the game.  That's a shining example of something that needs to be nerfed to hell and back.  Drop speed by 15-20%, swap one expert line for a basic line, drop impact for a lesser buff like Defense, Resist, or Agility, and drop its luck by 10%.  That should help to bring it to the level of brute.  It's still a good class, especially with PP becoming an offensive stat - it's just no longer considered epic tier.

Oh, and notice the order I listed those stats above?  That's my personal weight order now that PP is offensive -

(Power - improves both physical attacks and spells, as well as healing power)
Attack - offense without the burden of fuel
PP - offense, fuels itself, can run out
Luck - control defense
(Resistance - spell defense)
HP - Vitality
Defense - physical defense
(Element Level - control offense, but has limited influence)
Agility - Turn order

@Class names:

Felix as Tyrant is wrong.  For a guy willing to put saving the world on hold to help people, that's just wrong.  The names seem to be taken form the ones I assigned him, which were designed to be mirrors of Isaac.  Rogue is mirror to Squire, you have Knight and Knave, the gallant hero and the outlaw, the noble lord and the grizzled veteran, and to mirror Isaac's "Slayer of Foes" with a "Conqueror of Trials".  If you're going to add Noble to Isaac (and yeah, Noble sounds better than Nobleman to me.  Dunno why, though), I'd say to add Mercenary.  The idea here is that while Isaac is the Shining Paladin, the Yes Man, the Lawful Good guy, Felix is the Dark Knight, the one who says No to the call if it means he can save people, the Chaotic Good hero.  Tyrant isn't what Felix is - it's what he takes down.  Isaac follows orders - Felix takes action.  I know this is out of order, but it just screams to me.

Isaac - I'd personally use Noble instead of Nobleman, and Dragonslayer seems like an unnecessary expansion of his original Slayer.  Edit:  After reading the posts that beat me to the punch, I can say this:  While the JP version was Dragon Slayer, it doesn't fit with the noble spin things took.  Instead, try and make it flow like an honorable swordsman.  So...  Squire → Swordsman → Knight → Swordmaster → Lord → Great Lord.  This also doubles as a Fire Emblem shout out.  Then, make Felix Rogue → Scrapper → Knave → Mercenary → Dread Fighter → Conqueror.  This follows the original conventions that Felix's classes had of mirroring Isaac's, including the FE references if you take this route.

Why is Garet a Baron?  That seems out of place.  I'd go Warrior → Champion → Hero → Legend, which would fit the original more.

Ivan - I'd go Bolt User → Magician → Magus → Magister → Sorcerer → Archmage.  Illusionist doesn't fit him or his class, and spellcaster sounds like a step down.

Mia - Water User or Water Seer → Scribe → Cleric → Saint → Angel → Seraph.  Still don't know where Officiant came from - guessing it was a localization from another region?

Jenna - I don't like those last three.  Hex → Incendiary → Pyromancer → Flame Master would fit more, though you drop the Justice name. But Justice never made sense as a class name to me anyway.

Sheba - Swap Wind User for Wind Seer here, since it fits class naming conventions more for her.  Wind Seer → Sybil → Mystic → Priestess → Prophet → Herald sounds better to me.  Or swap Pythia for Oracle, which gives roughly the same meaning without sounding like you're downgrading to Prophet.

Piers - Skipper is just... out of place.  Go Mariner → Seaman → Privateer → Captain → Commander → Admiral if you go that route.  Personally, I'd keep what he has in vanilla and just add Fleet Admiral, since it sounds like an upgrade.

[Caledor]

Wow. That's a lot of input! Thanks a lot guys, I'm positive I'll find a compromise and I'll let you know the outcome. Next patch (outside of bugfixes) will be v1.30 and will include the extra tier and my take on Rolina's advices.

A few comments on Role's suggestions:

Tyrant will probably go down now that i know why you named the other tiers like that.
To me Slayer is an unnecessary shortening of the original Dragonslayer, LOL.
Baron is from japanese, like Phalanx. I liked the Phalanx cause it fits his defensive abilities perfectly IMO and I tried to follow it with Aegis.
Mia: I don't get why scribe fits for you. what about Religious?
I already said why pyromancer was left out... and i don't really see why incendiary would be below it and flame master.
I like Ivan and Piers, if i manage to find accetable translation in italian they're in. Fleet Admiral is out though cause "Grandammiraglio" is absurdly long... i'm placing my hopes on Seaman.

[Rolina]

You guys posted stuff while I was posting, and I just added an edit there talking about it.  I see what you're trying to do with Isaac, and kinda like it.  Gave some more suggestions, as well as what to do with Felix if you take that route.

[VardenSalad]

Perhaps something like "Pyrokinetic" or "Pyromancer" instead of either Fire Master or Fire Genius. Alternatively, maybe something "Vesper"? I'm having problems coming up with Fire User-esque terms that haven't already been used.

I kinda agree with Rolina on Felix's classes, but at the same time, I dump Mars Djinn onto Felix and now he's a Berserker, so I don't put too much weight into class names. But I do like them making sense in terms of progression. Champion and Hero have already been used for a 7/9 Djinn class series, so that would have to change.

Maybe something like "Executor" at the highest rank for Piers? I'm loath to switch up the class progressions from one word to two words (for something like Fleet Admiral), since all of Piers' other classes are one word.



My breakdown:

Isaac: Squire - Knight - Gallant - Noble - Lord - Sovereign/Regent  (really just any term that you feel would keep the momentum from Gallant -> Noble -> Lord would work)
Garet: Guard - Soldier - Ombudsman - Phalanx - Aegis
Ivan: Bolt User - Magician - Enchanter - Magister - Sorcerer - Archmage
Mia: Water Seer - Scribe - Cleric - Saint - Angel - Seraph  (I really agree with Rolina here; Officiant seems odd even though it may be an accurate term)

Felix: Rogue - Knave - Outlaw - Mercenary - Veteran - Conqueror  (I like Conqueror, I like Mercenary, but I didn't like Tyrant.)
Jenna: Flame User - Witch - Hex - Pyromancer/Pyrokinetic - Incendiary - Lucent
Sheba: Wind User - Sybil - Mystic - Priestess - Pythia - Prophet  (Really great class series)
Piers: Mariner - Privateer - Captain - Commander - Admiral - Executor  (I'm sure that there is a one word term that can be used beyond Admiral)

Lemme know what anyone thinks.