[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

[Salanewt]

Caledor: Awesome, I look forward to seeing how that turns out.

Fox: Debug room stuff may be wrong and/or missing info. Also, the description for Magnet on the page for unavailable spells (which lists Aurora Field as one); while the Lash rope reaction does happen in , I recall it also happening with Frost and stuff (also, it completely leaves out the fact that the real layout for Psynergy Test 2 is actually unused because it copies the layout of Psynergy Test). For the most part, anything involving lesser known things that we find probably won't be on there... this may be off topic though.

As for the turns/duration, they probably meant the average & the likelihood of one being cured over the other. I'd be willing to bet they were even swapped by accident when that info was originally written, although the fact that it has gone uncorrected for so long isn't a good sign.

[Rolina]

@Poison:  Taking 50-120 damage every turn is something I'd consider a threat, yes.  It may not seem like much, but in combination with other damage you take, and with GS' very AoE heavy gameplay, that stuff adds up.  Before you get wish, poison is freaking scary.  It's the reason I keep a couple antidotes on each adept.

@Haunt:  I'll have to disagree with you on this one, leaf.  Haunt is a tricky one because depending on who got hit with it, it may not matter at all.  I'd say this is a mid-tier threat in vanilla, mainly because if Ivan or Mia get pegged by it, why should I care?  It doesn't damage you for heals or buffs, just for damage output.  Any character who's job is to do something else can completely ignore it.  On top of that, the damage you take from attacks is usually really small until the end game, when you should already have the djinn needed to cure it.  I consider it the same level of threat as vanilla Death Curse.  Higher activation rate or damage recoil would make it a bigger threat to the adepts who care, I think.

@Sleep and Stun:  What are the other modifiers between these two?  I mean, what separates them?  Is it just that sleep has more chances to cure itself?  I mean, they can't just be clones of one another... can they?

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

@Sleep and Stun:  What are the other modifiers between these two?  I mean, what separates them?  Is it just that sleep has more chances to cure itself?  I mean, they can't just be clones of one another... can they?

I dunno? Does a person who is hit when they're sleeping increase their chance of waking up? If so, would it be in-general? Or limited to certain things like Physical or Magical? (Probably should see if I can find anything in the code later?)

[Salanewt]

I can see poison being low-mid priority, but venom is certainly higher. Plus they can stack to 30% of your health for every action you take... assuming there is ever a situation when they could be stacked together without being cured right away.

Sleep/stun: If I had to guess, the two may be mostly identical with the aim of making stun a direct upgrade over sleep; assuming you can even get it to work in the first place. One is easier to inflict but also easier to recover from, while one is the opposite. And then you have the 1-turn stun which is a separate ailment that does the same thing (but guaranteed to work I think). There may be more to them than that, but I honestly doubt it given that there are three four separate paralysis effects when you also factor cursed gear into it. This is excluding confuse & charm of course, since those are merely unfinished effects that only do anything to player characters by default.

[leaf]

@Haunt:  I'll have to disagree with you on this one, leaf.  Haunt is a tricky one because depending on who got hit with it, it may not matter at all.  I'd say this is a mid-tier threat in vanilla, mainly because if Ivan or Mia get pegged by it, why should I care?  It doesn't damage you for heals or buffs, just for damage output.  Any character who's job is to do something else can completely ignore it.  On top of that, the damage you take from attacks is usually really small until the end game, when you should already have the djinn needed to cure it.  I consider it the same level of threat as vanilla Death Curse.  Higher activation rate or damage recoil would make it a bigger threat to the adepts who care, I think.

You're thinking about boss fights. In which case, raising the chance of return damage *still* doesn't change that dynamic. It just makes it even *more* punishing for your attackers, while the healer and buffer can safely ignore it.

Now, to put this in the correct context, haunt is a lasting ailment, that is carried over from battle to battle. And until later in the game, the only way to cure it is to visit a sanctum. So thinking about it purely in terms of boss fights isn't quite accurate. Here, even your supports are going to be attacking fairly frequently, and inflicting pretty hefty damage amounts, too. And don't think your mages are safe just because they cast psynergy; haunt can trigger on *each* hit of an AOE.

[Rolina]

@Leaf:  The damage is easily healed out of battle, and with the PP regen out of battle, in most situations it can be safely ignored until you get around to curing it.  If not making it more severe, I think a good way to look at it is to look at support spells and healing as well, and have it deal damage based on the values given on those.  Definitely not an easy thing to quantify though, since different people weight it differently.

@Poison/Venom:  THOSE CAN STACK!?

[Caledor]

Progress report for next version:

4 turn curse added to gs1
Remedy psynergy created (single target Tonic, 10 pp cost). Is learned at Angel and Druid stage, and by the Pure Mage and Guardian series. Always replaces both Cure Poison and Restore. In TLA the icon replaces the red X.
Break cost increased to 12
Restore cost increased to 6
Potent cure cost increased to 14
Nature boon cost increased to 18, bp decreased to 500
Ply series cost increased to 5-10-24, pure ply bp decreased to 700

Sticky enemies:
   wild gorilla's hp +50
   turtle dragon hp +20

@Varden: This is just the beginning. A few clarifications:  I don't think i will tweak the stats of enemies shared between games (cause it could become a pain for me to fix mistakes in the future), but i'm open for replacements. For example, Wild gorilla and Turtle dragon are TLA exclusive so they can be tweaked. Creeper, as you noted is plain stupid in the air rock interior, but is shared with TBS so i think i'll outright replace it with another enemy. Your suggestions were spot on so far, so if you have other ideas about this do not hesitate and let me know! :D
PS. I just checked all the TLA exclusive enemies and i don't see other enemies that could have their hp improved... so all that's left is to replace enemies like creeper in air's rock.

Next:
Haunt activation chance to 40%, curse freeze chance to 50% 33%, the delusion thing (i think i'll go for: if deluded skip unleash check) + standard attack miss chance to 70%, check infliction rate of tweaked statuses, AOB.

[Salanewt]

Haunt: Actually, I'm pretty sure it only triggers once per action regardless of whether you hit multiple targets or not. I tested to make sure by raising the activation rate to 100% and hitting multiple targets with Douse, although I can always go back and triple check just to make sure.

Posion/Venom: I thought they did, but they may not after double checking in RAM; I changed the poison value to 3 and there's no graphic to indicate a condition. In theory though (and certainly in practice with a little work), you can totally make them stack because all the poison ailment does is check for the current value and use that to calculate damage. So like, poison = 1 and venom = 2: poison deals 10% in battle and venom deals 20%. Higher values also work in battle, they just don't have any graphics or icons to indicate that they are in effect. So in theory, one could code in an exception for both ability effects that just adds their value to the current poison level and fix the graphics, and then they could have stacking poison. Oh, and also code its functionality out of battle, but that one may be a little easier.


Caledor:
Remedy: Sounds good. What is its PP cost?

Equipment curse: You sure about that one? Cursed equipment may be really good in your hack, but still...

[Caledor]

Remedy is 10. For reference, CP is 3 and restore 6.
Eq. curse. Hmm yes, guess 50% is way too much. But 25% is definitely low so I'll settle for 33%.

In TLA the icon replaces the red X.

In TBS too.

EDIT: just wanted to say that i've found all the remaining addresses (GS1) for equipment curse, haunt and delusion activation chance. Thanks guys!

EDIT2: I think i've also figured out how to deal with the delusion/unleash thing.

[Salanewt]

Equipment curse: That is the absolute highest I would go for, although I would also be open to reducing the rate slightly depending on how cursed gear is balanced. I think it might work out okay.

Delusion: Yeah?

[Caledor]

In TLA:



You branch to this part of the code from the unleash function, at 080B04BE. It loads a single byte from r0 (acting pc in ram) + #0x138, which is delusion turns. If said value is greater than 0 (pc under delusion), jump to the end of the unleash function (you can't unleash if deluded). If not, continue as normal (the "mov r2, #0x2a" instruction was the one replaced to jump here). It seems to work. The only doubt is whether R1 is used or not (r2 is fine due to the mov r2, #0x2a instruction)

[leaf]

@Leaf:  The damage is easily healed out of battle, and with the PP regen out of battle, in most situations it can be safely ignored until you get around to curing it.  If not making it more severe, I think a good way to look at it is to look at support spells and healing as well, and have it deal damage based on the values given on those.  Definitely not an easy thing to quantify though, since different people weight it differently.

Eh... you sure you aren't thinking of DD regen? If you're having to heal between every or every other battle, you're gonna have a steady drain on your PP. After all, there's still the damage you're taking from the enemies themselves. Haunt doesn't exist in a vacuum; if it did, it wouldn't be a threat.

[Salanewt]

Just to add to the PP field recovery bit: It doesn't work in towns and the counter for it resets every time you enter/exit a room. So if you're in a dungeon with a lot of small rooms, chances are you will recover less PP than you would on the overworld for example. The counter is also the same one used for djinn recovery, to add a little tidbit.

Caledor: I think I like it. My preference is for unleashes to ignore delusion, but considering we have different balance ideas in some areas (i.e. universal magic power vs. elemental power) I think your solution is pretty good. Nice work!

[Rolina]

Puzzle rooms have no encounters, but PP recovery works there.  If you have to, running in circles could easily do the job.

Man, this little discussion's been kind of enlightening - different people have very different outlooks on the severity of ailments.  Kinda want to make a thread on this to get everyone to give their opinions on all of GS' ailments and what they'd prefer them to do...

[Salanewt]

Puzzle rooms: That's a good point actually. Means it is up to the player to know in advance which rooms are puzzle rooms, but there are some (like the Madra mayor/oasis desert room in Yampi) that are pretty obvious. Although not all puzzles rooms are encounter-free either (like the Growth maze in Gaia Rock). I guess this means that Avoid does have some practical use after all!

Edit: I forgot to mention this before, but I'm pretty sure the counter also resets upon entering a battle. May as well mention that too.

Also, I'd totally be on board with that topic idea. I would consider doing it myself, but I'm technically studying and am only on for a short break right now. I think there have been similar topics for one-off ailments; I don't know about a universal one though.

[Caledor]

Ok so Haunt and Delusion are done. In the end i left the equipment curse at 25% since there's never been an issue with that. All that's left to do are the sticky enemies that Varden suggested, TLA wise.

About GS1... Squirtle, sorry to bother you again but i've got two things to ask you: if you know if a mars revive animation exists in GS1 (or can be ported from TLA) and if you have any plans to port the advanced reviving patch to GS1.

[Salanewt]

Sweet.

Animation: Not that I know of, but I may be able to whip one up pretty easily by removing redundant instructions in the base Revive animation function (like I did for the Jupiter variant in the overhaul patch). Do you know/remember where the animation table is in GS1? I'll ask Fox/Tea if you don't. Also, I may not be able to do it until after my exam tomorrow, but I can't see it being very hard to do.

Advanced: None at this time. I can try figuring it out when I get around to the animation, although I can't promise I will find the section I need to edit for it.

[Rolina]

Isn't there a mars revival djinn?  Most of the element heal effects come from djinn anyways, so I figure you could use that.  If nothing else, there's the Wonder Bird's regen dance...

[Caledor]

@Squirtle: I remember finding it some time ago, i'll post it to you once i find it again. Nevermind, i was wrong, sorry.

BTW about the other one, the only thing i care for is to make field reviving heal only 50% of max HP, to match the in battle effect, so there's no need for the whole advanced reviving thing. I think i could even do that myself if i had the addresses... after all it should be either a duplicate of the in battle code or a call to the in battle function.

@Role. It's GS1 so no djinn (there's only mercury and venus) and no regen dance

[Rolina]

Ah.  Hmm... Off chance you can import animations?  That'd certainly be hella useful...