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Author Topic: Wanted things still to be figured out  (Read 2759 times)
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Rolina
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« on: October 27, 2015, 12:25:52 PM »

So, there's several things that I know people want to do that haven't been figured out yet, and others that have or already have discussions for that it'd be handy to have links to.  I figured we should have a thread for all that, so here it is.  If you have certain patches, tools, or features you want to have people look into or try to figure out, post it here.

I'll start by posting a few things that I'd love to have figured out:


1:  Cover/Counter techniques - skills that allow the user to take damage for an ally and/or retaliate
2:  Full accuracy checks with offense - a way to figure out how to give accuracy checks to any ability that causes damage.  Would make delusion significantly more useful.
3:  Altered elemental power influence - a way to change how elemental power/resistance effect certain abilities
4:  Spell Type/Magnitude separation overhaul - hey, it could happen.  Maybe I want a healing spell with the diminishing area type summons used to have, or maybe I want a physical skill that strikes an area with a the diminishing area type breath attack used to use.  Would require one hell of a patch I imagine, though.
5:  Extended Ability/Class list - Maybe I want full character separation with classes.  Maybe I want space for that.  Maybe I want the editor to reflect the extended space as well.

6: Ability to modify the accuracy of ailments, as well tweak their potency (ex:  Haunt)
7: Death curse 4 turn for GS1 as well.
8: Icon compressor. Something that allows me to tweak uncompressed icons in the vba ram, dump the ram, run the dump into the compressor and put the output back into the rom as a new icon.

9: The ability to change random damage variation, as well as minimum damage, would be appreciated. There have been times where I try to make hacks using a significantly lower overall power level (think Paper Mario style), but they've been ruined by attacks randomly doing up to double their normal damage, as well as continuing to deal damage against targets whose defence is high enough to block them outright.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 11:23:36 AM by Rolina » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 01:05:00 PM »

1- I never thought of a cover ability. It's extremely intresting (if viable) and would certainly trigger class changes in my patch to make defensive classes.
2- Totally agree.
3- maybe use power and resistance for luck check instead of elemental levels? IMHO power/10 - resistance/10 should do the trick, you'd have numbers close to elemental levels.
4- Never thought about it
5- It shouldn't be that difficult. You just need to repoint the class table, and you'd have all the space you want. The hard part would be to tweak the editor accordingly, cause class changes without the editor could be annoying.

I'll add my own.
6- Higher change to trigger and/or higher damage for Haunt.
7- Death curse 4 turn for GS1 as well.
8- Icon compressor. Something that allows me to tweak uncompressed icons in the vba ram, dump the ram, run the dump into the compressor and put the output back into the rom as a new icon.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 05:18:11 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 02:18:05 PM »

The ability to change random damage variation, as well as minimum damage, would be appreciated. There have been times where I try to make hacks using a significantly lower overall power level (think Paper Mario style), but they've been ruined by attacks randomly doing up to double their normal damage, as well as continuing to deal damage against targets whose defence is high enough to block them outright.
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Fox
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 06:55:04 PM »

Quote
8- Icon compressor. Something that allows me to tweak uncompressed icons in the vba ram, dump the ram, run the dump into the compressor and put the output back into the rom as a new icon.
So something like this? (In attachment) I just made this just now... It includes the source code as well.
Executible is at gsiconcompressor\bin\release (or debug) as always... Although it was totally unnecessary, I left two .dmp files in the debug one since I wanted to test to make sure it worked.

It's a console application.
Basically, you are to make a dump from VBA's memory viewer of one of the icons. (The ones without a border, hopefully.) You'll get a .dmp file... You should drag that onto the app. Careful though, as your dump file will be over-written with the compressed data. (The console window will only show for like... half a second. Unless you were to open the app directly instead... which will only give you a quick message in case you didn't understand how it's used.) Then, you should get a hex editor (Or use memory viewer if you are going to dump the entire ROM.) to insert the icon.

I suspect you know where the list of icons are located in the ROM, but here it is again, anyway: (For GS2 English version.)
0804EB58 = Item icon graphic table (Pointer list) (0804F124 = Item icons)
08054A14 = Ability icon graphic table
08058FF4 = Status icon graphic table

(fyi: Since the icons are non-tiled in the compression, the compressor also had to convert from tiled to non-tiled before compressing...)

Let me know if there are any bugs... (You never know when it comes to releasing something you've just worked on.)  Also, there is one tiny difference between GS and this... the last byte(s)... the unused bits are left alone in my program, but the original format has those bits on. Doesn't matter since they are unused anyway... (I will probably fix that some time(?), but anyway....)



EDIT:
Quote
5- It shouldn't be that difficult. You just need to repoint the class table, and you'd have all the space you want. The hard part would be to tweak the editor accordingly, cause class changes without the editor could be annoying.
Almost, but not quite.... you also need to change one other thing... The function that scans the classes for a match... must also be changed to scan any additional classes you might add... otherwise those classes will end up being unused whatever you do....

@all the space you want -- Umm... two things.
-GBA ROMs max at 32 MB. (This is a bit trivial.)
-If only repointing the class table, and changing where the class-search function scans..., I think you can only have up to 0xFF classes because of datatype is one byte in RAM... for each PC. So max 255 classes (If not counting NPC class/Class 0x00)... You can probably add some conditionals in the code on how that number(s) are treated, though.... So if each PC has a separate class table... then maybe just over 2k classes... (Possibly more if you do some advanced stuff.)

---
And the abilities list... if only simply repointing.... max at 0x3FFF (If not counting 0x0000/Nothing slot).... (Yep, see PC RAM data again.) - Basically, flags 0x4000 and 0x8000 are for whether it's innate/class/item class psynergy.... I think.

* gsiconcompressor.7z (24.6 KB - downloaded 105 times.)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 09:12:11 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2015, 09:20:30 PM »

First: Nice work Fox! I'll give it a shot myself later, since I need some icons for my new Wisp line.

Second: I just want to know how to toy around with object transparency in the field. Battle is fairly simple I think, but I have plans... good ones... for things... hyah!

Now onto the others. Keep in mind that it has been a little while since I have done any research into these areas, but it should mostly be on point.

Jamie: Random damage variation is added within battle formulas, so all you would need to do is remove those segments to have flat damage rates. I'm not exactly sure how certain formulas would handle having a value of 0 for scratch damage, but that would at least take care of the random variation a bit. Haven't checked for minimum damage, but I'm pretty sure removing the variation would do it.


1. I remember researching the retaliation part when researching Reflux/counter. Countering itself is basically treated as a distinct action type (like psynergy or using items), and the code is further changed so a specific ability (Djinni Counter) is used if a player character has the buff, or else the standard attack ability is chosen. I never really did much with it beyond that though, and certainly not for covering.

2. I can see bind/seal becoming entirely useless with this, but eh. Accuracy and delusion are only checked for when an ability uses one of a couple formulas and nothing else (beyond display stuff), if I recall correctly. There might be a way to instead change it so any action regardless can trigger accuracy, but then you would probably have summons and/or items missing... may investigate in the future, busy with other things in the mean time though.

3. How do you mean? Like, where certain abilities just happen to work differently from others with the same formula, or would it be based on certain qualities?

4. I want to say the diminishing aspect of those formulas is already decided elsewhere and could be applied to others pretty easily, but I can't remember. If I'm not mistaken on that, then you could probably get away with having a byte table to assign different diminishing rates with, so it is done on a spell-by-spell basis rather than formula (that would also free up a couple slots I think).

5. That one may be hard depending on how much you want to expand it by. Pretty sure the class value (in RAM, etc.) is a byte, meaning you could theoretically have a 0-255 range with no issues. Beyond that, there would have to be some workaround in order to have higher classes recognized when PCs are in them.



6. Certain ailments have their own formulas, but fortunately they are pretty simple. Haunt included. I can offer a hand if you want to change it in GS2, but I haven't really looked into changing it in GS1 yet. Are you familiar with VBA-SDL-H? You could probably do a bpr on a haunted character's haunt ailment value (in RAM, and it will show you some code any time the value is actually accessed. Including when deciding whether or not to inflict damage.

7. Similar response to above, minus the formula bit because the actual turn count is not decided by formula.

8. See Fox above, I think.
 
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 10:51:41 PM »

Quote
So something like this? (In attachment) [...]
OMG that fast?! i'm still in "i can't believe it" mode, but yes, i asked for the easiest thing possible, based on the assumption that i can edit uncompressed icon in ram (from experience with ff6a). You'll know tomorrow if it works for me... my study time in the library just flew out of the window, lol.

EDIT: ok, at first glance it should work. too bad we only have 4 free spot for weapon icons and 0 for ability icons. In the current state i can add the icons for Ker's Weight and Dark Robe but not for the new psynergies, so...

10- Relocate the weapon icons table and the ability icons table somewhere in the rom.

Then this will be put to good use.

EDIT2: Just realized that i can "merge" the samurai and normal buff. That would free 6 icons for the punishment and boom series. Other 3 will come from Magnet, Reflect and Arrow. Exactly the number needed for Tyrfing, Meltdown and Raise. God, I'm feeling sooo lucky.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 11:41:48 PM by Caledor » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 11:36:03 AM »

@Squirtle/2:  I don't.  Bind/Seal would stop anything that uses PP, right?  We already know that bind could use a buff considering how many monster abilities laugh at the ailment, so making a great many more abilities cost PP would remedy that.  Plus, GS is AoE heavy, you know?  Just because there's a 30% chance it'll miss an adept doesn't mean that it'll magically miss everyone, most likely just one or two.  And knowing my luck, it'd be the ones who were best able to take a hit at the time.  Bind would shut the ability out cold, and the two together would force single target attacks.

@Squirtle/3:  Alright, you know how for physical attacks the formula uses (power-res)/400, and for pure spells it uses (power-res)/200?  I wanna try making djinn abilities use (power-res)/300.  As such, I figure being able to change and tweak that part of the formula and how it's applied would be useful not only to me, but to anyone else who wants to experiment with it.

@Squirtle/4:  Well, given that Base Damage, Summon Damage, and Diminishing Damage are all the exact same thing with different magnitudes, I figured it'd take a bit of work to separate the magnitudes form the formulas themselves and make them a variable instead.  It'd also free up two formula spaces if we could figure it out...

@Squirtle/5:  Well, considering the number of slots in the editor for these two things are odd numbers, I figure it'd be an easy matter of expanding the table in the editor, or it'd be a more complicated matter where there's a lot more data being taken up by each slot.  Considering there's more than 255 slots in each, I imagine that we potentially could have up to the square of that, but I don't understand the data all that well.
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 02:11:24 PM »

Actually, I think it would work really well if the standard attack accuracy check (including Delusion-induced miss chance) applied to all abilities with a target of Enemy and a PP cost of 0. That way, if you wanted to make something not have a miss chance (for item effects, unleashes, etc.), you just give it a PP cost and it won't miss, even if that PP cost doesn't actually end up applying. Plus, it would make it possible to have mage-type weapons that always unleash a base power move, but don't ignore miss chance as a result.
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 06:10:27 PM »

Quote
OMG that fast?!
Yes, that fast! Less than 100 lines of code, and I took a function I already worked on a long time ago... (Still took a small amount of time to get it together, though.)


Quote
10- Relocate the weapon icons table and the ability icons table somewhere in the rom.
Shouldn't be difficult at all...
The easy routes might be:
-Repoint the first few icons so you can make room for more entries.
-Or you can repoint the entire pointer list itself. (Which may be a bit more work.)

Quote
Considering there's more than 255 slots in each, I imagine that we potentially could have up to the square of that, but I don't understand the data all that well.
For GS2, the editor shows these as the last entries:

Ability:
733 | Pressure

Class:
243 | Necromage


Specifically, 243 isn't greater than 255....

---
I feel like we could recreate the entire class system.... so that... instead of having the conditions be only primary/secondary element, djinn reqs,  pc-specific, and item classes... we could also have some that are level specific... dungeon-specific... etc.... (I dunno... Imagine having a Wolf-like class at Garoh.), Could probably be done via a flag-check, though. (If one was to do an assembly hack.)

Event flag classes would probably be better to use than item classes, anyway...?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 07:01:23 PM by Fox » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 10:07:24 PM »

Actually, I think it would work really well if the standard attack accuracy check (including Delusion-induced miss chance) applied to all abilities with a target of Enemy and a PP cost of 0. That way, if you wanted to make something not have a miss chance (for item effects, unleashes, etc.), you just give it a PP cost and it won't miss, even if that PP cost doesn't actually end up applying. Plus, it would make it possible to have mage-type weapons that always unleash a base power move, but don't ignore miss chance as a result.
  My idea was to just have anything with a PP cost have a default accuracy of 100% as opposed to the lower one seen in the standard attack command.  That way psynergy still doesn't miss normally, but delusion now has a legit point.  Still, rather than argue about how to balance what, why not just work on patches for both ideas?

@Fox/Necromage:  Huh, I had thought it 400-something.  Been a while since I played with it, so bad memory there.  Still, depending on which value it actually got assigned, we may be able to expand it I it.

Oh, and your comment also reminds me...

A patch to change how classes work so that it's the djinn that matter, not element level.  This would allow for element level to be looked at for things like equipment, thus boosting effect accuracy.  It'd also be easier to make sense of classes, though I imagine it'd make item classes more complicated as a byproduct...
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April 18, 2019, 01:18:08 AM
Fox: Thinking.... meme topics.....    Isaac: Stop calling me a sack! Also, don't call me sick either!
April 03, 2019, 08:24:45 PM
Fox: Really don't see the point in the Crystal or even the crown conversation, but whatever... (I mean, if you want to do it, then just do it. - Doesn't need to be at GSHC, because there are no longer clan leaders at GSHC.)
April 03, 2019, 03:59:33 AM
squizzy44: We all need to band together to take down Crystal.
April 02, 2019, 12:00:09 AM
Fox: Your clan?  You can't edit it manually, so you have to tell an admin so they can do it. There's actually a topic for when you pick a clan... but uhh... I've no idea if an admin will see it via that, though. (Kain will certainly see id you ping him on GSHC Discord.)
April 01, 2019, 05:28:42 PM
squizzy44: How do I change my position on my profile? I haven't used the site in nearly 10 years...
March 31, 2019, 10:10:15 PM
Fox: I still wonder if a Tret glitch for speedrunning exists... I don't think I looked into if the PC was on one of the other layers. (Which basically the second layer edits @-0x200 instead of @-0x100... in the event you are going up (y-axis) out of bounds.) Hm.
March 31, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Fox: Not me.
March 31, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
Salanewt: I don't know of any, although if there were then we'd have to send it as a patch file. I think someone is working on it at least!
March 29, 2019, 07:51:48 PM
MaxiPower: no such thing exists
March 26, 2019, 03:38:42 AM
reeZ931: I would really appreciate it 
March 26, 2019, 02:39:38 AM
reeZ931: Anyone have a golden sun rom where you can play as saturos and menardi properly? 
March 25, 2019, 09:31:15 PM
Fox: It would explain why everyone leaves so quickly after taking our bananas.
March 24, 2019, 10:36:10 PM
Fox: Wouldn't bananas increase agility the more you have? Like... Diddy Kong Racing reference.
March 22, 2019, 11:19:11 PM
Average Wind Seer: Banana: Restores 50PP to user. Restores 40PP to Isaac if Jenna uses this item.
March 22, 2019, 09:57:53 PM
Salanewt: Lol. I mean, I am thinking of adding a banana item to GS so...
March 22, 2019, 09:48:42 PM
Fox: Ooh! Sala's back!  I think he wants a banana.  All this banana talk must have attracted him.
March 22, 2019, 08:56:52 PM
Fox: :O I just notice I have no Coins to buy bananas with! (You know, the coins feature this forum has.)
March 04, 2019, 08:45:44 PM
Fox: Aw.  I kind of want to suggest dressing up in a banana costume.  No wait, that's a bad idea.
March 04, 2019, 04:24:10 AM
Average Wind Seer: *angry gorilla noises that roughly translates to "Stay the [redacted] off my island and don't touch my [redacted] bananas"*
March 04, 2019, 03:06:07 AM
Fox: Gosh. This is like playing whack-a-mole! What's taking you so long with the bananas?! :D

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