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Author Topic: [0.7.5 Release] Golden Sun TLA: Convenience and Inspiration  (Read 736 times)
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« on: January 16, 2017, 09:34:52 AM »

Hey Everyone! So, I'm the guy who posted the 2 Hacks on the Golden Sun Reddit site recently and I've been suggested by Caledor to post here for feedback and what not. Please know though that I'm new to this site and if I happen to be posting in the wrong area, I apologize, but based on the rules I looked at and everything around, this seems to be the most appropriate area for posting a Golden Sun Editor based hacked. I'm also working on a 2nd mod just to inform you guys. It'll be for Battle Mode and appropriately called the "Battle Mode" Hack.

Just a little backstory: This hack first arose from me wanting to play through this game FASTER. I was finishing up my final general ed classes and I wanted to play both GBA golden suns but without it taking many hours while keeping the game in some way similar. (Been working on this for the past 6 months and only recently discovered there are more hacks out there than I thought for Golden Sun.)
However, through playing, especially with The Lost Age, I realized certain weapons you gain in the open world esque Eastern Sea section could become severely underpowered depending on the order which you receive them. Psynergy also seemed to not have the kick I was really looking for until you reach the third level of certain spells (but by then, you can beat the game and hidden bosses before you have them.)

Also, I figured I should try to make this organized and fancy looking, but each website has their own posting codes and etc, so I looked at some posts around here and they've inspired my to make my posts try to be nice like theirs. But I'm still a beginner so please take it easy on me. Caledor inspired my use of spoilers. (REALLY Awesome mod by the way)


"CONVENIENCE AND INSPIRATION! 0.7.5" (Still wondering if that should really be the hack name...)


What's the point?:
  • To allow the veteran to progress through faster!
  • To give the player freedom over their own gameplay style!
  • To explore different options and bring out new potentials in characters through elemental power!
  • To make the game's customization feel even a little bit different/inspiring!
  • Most of all...FUN! (and a little Sandbox-y)

Classes/Psynergy Changes: Things touched up in the class section
Spoiler for classes:
  • Squire Series now has Growth (Inspired by Dark Dawn)
  • The "leftover" Douse Series has been added to Piers's Mariner Class as he has two slots open so I figured why not.
  • New psynergy spell for Mia, Cleanse, which is like Esuna/Remedy from Final Fantasy but AoE

New Abilities/Psynergy Added: These are touch ups that happened in the psynergy section
Spoiler for abilities/psynergy:
  • Cleanse: Mia's new abilities to remove negative status across the party
  • Countervail: Boost resistance by 40 across the party. Only usable on golden ring so far.
  • Third Level Psynergy like Grand Gaia is now learned in the 30s rather than the 40s. That way it's ready for use by sections of the game.
Spoiler for Why?:
Around multiple playthroughs I've done from childhood to now, I usually had some of the best weapons int he game before I even had some of the third level psynergies, and by that point, I'd be doing 500-1000 damage which made me almost feel like using psynergy was irrelevant to killing a boss asap.
  • Many Attack Based Psynergies are improved in damage so that it can keep up with the normal attack option in the game or even warrant more use over it when possible.
Spoiler for Why?:
I want to open up the playstyles so that if you want to be like a final fantasy black mage or something, you can! Certain weapons and armor also boost elemental power so especially early in which increases the damage of psynergy. This will at least help if for some reason, you want to make it so Felix can spell cast better. But do know, I'm still working out what's best. Even though quake is stronger...it's still weak but at least there'll be a reason to use it with the lower pp cost vs gaia which while it is very powerful, it costs much more pp.
I'm thinking though, I might use a different damage formula for psynergy attacks.

Equipment Changes: I'm still messing around with this section, so nothing here is set in stone yet.
Spoiler for equipment:
  • Certain equipment now have elemental power/resistance additions, and other stat based changes to balance them out with other eastern sea weapons.
Spoiler for why?:
The reason here is because in while I was working on this hack, when I got to the Eastern Sea, one of the issues that came up regarded weapon achievement order. I got the Cloud Brand sword and a few other weapons that were pretty good, but the weapons I got after at my own pace were...very under powered. I didn't really like this because it just made the weapons feel without purpose (in fact, I thought maybe it was a weapon that's weak but has some crazy special secret...but that wasn't the case.)
  • Shaman Rod is now an OP Rod. (It's temporary after all and it is your choice to use it.)
Spoiler for Shaman Rod Changes:
Heals a good amount of HP and PP per turn, is almost as powerful as the Sol Blade and my buffed Gaia blade, and has a weapon unleash.
  • HP and PP recovery on equipment is now a little bit higher on things that heal like....+2.
  • Some equipment can be wielded by characters even if it's not of their class. (mostly related to element)
Spoiler for But...:
I'm still debating this one. For now, it's just for fun and experimentation!
  • Some items in general are buffed in either weird ways or for no reason other than speeding up the game or for fun. So, it's still being worked around and what not. Eventually, the numbers shall be properly crunched!
  • Usable Items for now are unbreakable. (Just for now, it's like a super sandbox). If I were able to make usable items cost PP, then I'd do that. What I'm thinking could be the best work around would be to bestow psynergy perhaps. This will eventually happen later.

Drop rate changes:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Not much editing here yet, but I've made what adjustments I could to help speed up the pacing of the game. Drop rates as I come by them are getting toned down a bit so that way you won't be resetting your game over and over to get a specific rare drop. Though, I still wanted to make it so it's not always guaranteed without using the Djinn kill method or then your inventory would get full. U'm still messing with what numbers are best though.

Djinn:
Spoiler for djinn:
  • The stat boosts they give are larger (just going into the 10s for hp and pp boosts). This not only speeds up how fast certain battles will go some what, but they also allow you to cast more spells! So no need to be as conservative now! Of course though, do be wary of how much you'll lose for using a djinn also!
  • Certain Djinn abilities have been modified so that they also get more use over weapon unleashes. So certain attacks are buffed here and there. Though I'm still editting through this somewhat so please allow me some time. But go ahead and use djinns for attacks and what not if you want to rely on that for your gameplay style!
  • I made summons just a tad bit stronger, though not that much.

Weapon Unleashes:
Spoiler for Hiden:
    Some Weapon Unleashes have been changed or buffed in order to keep up with the other weapons that can be achieved around the same time, and a few others are just altered and what not for the sake of making the pacing faster.
Spoiler for But Why?:
So while this could seem more questionable, aside from it being just a personal thing I want to do. It's also because elemental power does have an important role in increasing damage with weapon unleashes, and I came down to this consensus after some experimenting with the unleash damage and elemental power of equipments. I liked that having a specific equipment set up made customizing the character really feel like you were giving them a new purpose or build to play around with. So, hopefully you'll be willing to use other weapons while trying to reap the benefits through class changes that raise a specific elemental power combined with element raising equipment.
  • Not yet Implemented: Golden Sun Dark Dawn inspired weaker/generic weapon unleashes for the normal store weapons. Once again, allowing that customization feel if you want to play through with normal items while having the satisfaction of weapon unleashes.
  • Unleash rates are increased to 55%
Spoiler for But wait...why?:
Yes, while it would seem like that increases how long a battle will be. Sort of and not sort of. I found it does speed things up somewhat especially thanks to the use of equipment having elemental power and etc now, and later especially, weapon unleashes will become more devastating. So, it does speed up the game somewhat. This also lets you guys test out them damage numbers faster to see how well your build will reap the benefits of your customization. Otherwise, 55% doesn't make the unleash always happen but yes, it will occur more often.
[/list]

What's Left?:

I'm editing as I play through the game again and I'm at the west sea. So, the items there to the end have not been touched so much, this includes forge items also. There are also some items I still haven't touched on yet simply because of indecision. But if you have ideas to make things more inspirational, fun, silly, or awesome, then I'll look forward to those ideas.

PATCH DOWNLOAD >3<


ENJOY! 0.7.5 (1/4/2017)

(The first sign that the hack works is that Jenna should have a hat equipment in her inventory which she normally doesn't.)


ALSO, how should I go about updating this my fellow peoples? I'm new to doing this and I'm actually really shy with talking online normally...so, please if possible, I'd truly appreciate if you could walk me through this a little. I really want to meet new people and make more friends ^O^ and I hope this will even allow for that at least a little bit too!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 04:34:45 AM by WhiteMageMonk » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 02:15:12 PM »

muchas gracias! te doy la bienvenida y espero que aportes mucho mas, mucha gente juega a este gran juego y siempre son bienvenidos estos proyectos1
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 06:50:40 PM »

I'm kinda afraid of giving progress advice on someone else's mod, cause i think it will only make it more similar to my own, but there's one thing i can tell you: why not using the download section of the forum for uploading your ips patch? I think it will also be easier for "outsiders" to find it
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 06:58:19 PM »

I'm kinda afraid of giving progress advice on someone else's mod, cause i think it will only make it more similar to my own, but there's one thing i can tell you: why not using the download section of the forum for uploading your ips patch? I think it will also be easier for "outsiders" to find it

Ah, yeah see XD I didn't know I could do that here. I'm really not sure where to put stuff. How would you recommend going about updating this stuff also o.o? This is really my first time.

Otherwise, dude, honestly, even if you offer advice and it may be more similar to what you do, it's ultimately my decision whether I should do that or not. If I think it'll be awesome for the mod also because this idea is so universally awesome or just cool and what not, then why not toss that in. Even though I've changed this and that, I still don't really know how big of an affect some things truly have. Or heck, unless someone that's not me tries the mod, I have no way to know if people will really do have that customization freedom that I'm hoping my hack gets across.

You're mod is dreamy hot dude. I'm gonna get to trying it soon >3<. Just from the changes alone, I can tell it has such a huge effect on the game.
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 09:18:08 PM »

Personally, I wouldn't have touched summons. Even if it's in the name of "speed," summons were already overpowered as is. I would also have avoided buffing psynergy too much early on, since that's already when it was most dominant.

Since one of this patch's main focuses is on speed, I think it might be worth looking into speeding up the pushing/running/climbing/log rolling/etc animations, or something like skipping emotes by holding B. This isn't something you can do with the editor, but I'd imagine salanewt or fox here might be willing to look into it for you.
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Spoiler for quotes:
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 10:36:23 PM »

Personally, I wouldn't have touched summons. Even if it's in the name of "speed," summons were already overpowered as is. I would also have avoided buffing psynergy too much early on, since that's already when it was most dominant.

Since one of this patch's main focuses is on speed, I think it might be worth looking into speeding up the pushing/running/climbing/log rolling/etc animations, or something like skipping emotes by holding B. This isn't something you can do with the editor, but I'd imagine salanewt or fox here might be willing to look into it for you.

Ah ;3;. Yeah I have no idea how to speed that up but you are correct that animations, and I'd say especially run speed do take some time indeed. As for summons, yeah, that was something I just kinda touched and was like.....was this really a good idea? I'm gonna tone it back to what it was since alone, I think it's possible to hit even judgement for instance at 1400 damage right?

Otherwise, for psynergy, I didn't buff it too much necessarily as those that are already powerful, like the spark series, don't need much of a buff. But something like quake, at least in my opinion, feels so criminally underwhelming that I didn't want to touch it at all. The psynergy buffs are mostly there for the customization aspect so that if you want to be like a final fantasy black mage type character straight up (but with someone like Felix instead of Ivan), then you'd have that choice.

On the other hand, as you said, Psynergy is certainly pretty awesome for the beginning, but I feel it gets overshadowed the further you get into the game. So while I kept the damage increase minor, I made it so that certain equipment would increase elemental power so if you wanted to turn Felix into a ninja that focuses on elemental magic psynergy, you can try to equip him up so it makes up for his lack of a primary djinn element. That's the customization aspect I also want to play a part in the game........ Actually, yes, yes I agree. I should probably debuff the first level psynergy spells, and then maybe even buff only certain ones (Quake Sphere, that's certainly the only spell I refuse to turn away from.)


You got me there though on speed. TuT. Maybe I should take the speed aspect out and concentrate solely on giving the player more character/party build freedom? (Say if you want to aspire towards turning Felix into a water fanatic?)
Thank you so much for the feedback dude! I'll really look into and consider it carefully!
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 07:11:45 AM »

Wait, why did you add Growth and Douse to the classes?  Even DD didn't do that - they were tied to the characters as innate spells.  Check the characters tab - Piers should already have Douse there, for example.  I'd add Growth to Isaac and Felix there, and Whirlwind to Ivan and Sheba (well, I personally wouldn't, but that seems more like what you are wanting).  That way those spells are available even if you change classes.

As far as the other decisions... I'm admittingly confused?  On one hand, you seem to want to make things more convenient.  On the other, you want to trivialize combat to more or less "get on with it", perhaps to try and mare it more about the story than the gameplay?  Because... well... There's a reason people tend to make GS a bit harder when they made their mods - GS is a bit on the easier end of things.  Not "baby's first RPG", but certainly something that people could consider newbie friendly.  Convenience?  Convenience is cool, but if you make things too easy you risk boring the player.  

Plus, other people have come up to solutions to some of your issues.  For example, did you know we have two different ways of making psynergy better?  The first way is the one Caledor and I prefer, where spell power is tied to Max PP.  The second is the Intellect stat approach that Leaf and Squirtle came up with.  Both of these are do what you're wanting with spells far better than just making them learnable earlier - that doesn't actually address the problem, and by the time you reach the end of the game you have the same issue of OP weapons anyways.  

Also, there's a few other decisions that confuse me.  For instance, why is the Shaman's Rod, a literal trade mcguffin, suddenly a power item, especially when it's only reason for existence is to be traded off in favor of the Hover Jade?  Seems like an odd decision.

Apart from the O.o moments I'm seeing, I do really like the approach of making a mod that emphasizes convenience of play.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 07:18:59 AM by Rolina » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 04:58:23 AM »

Wait, why did you add Growth and Douse to the classes?  Even DD didn't do that - they were tied to the characters as innate spells.  Check the characters tab - Piers should already have Douse there, for example.  I'd add Growth to Isaac and Felix there, and Whirlwind to Ivan and Sheba (well, I personally wouldn't, but that seems more like what you are wanting).  That way those spells are available even if you change classes.

As far as the other decisions... I'm admittingly confused?  On one hand, you seem to want to make things more convenient.  On the other, you want to trivialize combat to more or less "get on with it", perhaps to try and mare it more about the story than the gameplay?  Because... well... There's a reason people tend to make GS a bit harder when they made their mods - GS is a bit on the easier end of things.  Not "baby's first RPG", but certainly something that people could consider newbie friendly.  Convenience?  Convenience is cool, but if you make things too easy you risk boring the player.  

Plus, other people have come up to solutions to some of your issues.  For example, did you know we have two different ways of making psynergy better?  The first way is the one Caledor and I prefer, where spell power is tied to Max PP.  The second is the Intellect stat approach that Leaf and Squirtle came up with.  Both of these are do what you're wanting with spells far better than just making them learnable earlier - that doesn't actually address the problem, and by the time you reach the end of the game you have the same issue of OP weapons anyways.  

Also, there's a few other decisions that confuse me.  For instance, why is the Shaman's Rod, a literal trade mcguffin, suddenly a power item, especially when it's only reason for existence is to be traded off in favor of the Hover Jade?  Seems like an odd decision.

Apart from the O.o moments I'm seeing, I do really like the approach of making a mod that emphasizes convenience of play.

Oh snap...Why didn't I add growth to Isaac and Felix over the classes!? XD. As for Piers, I added the douse series, he already has douse, and I made it so he gains Deluge and what not at proper levels to be a middle ground between Supercool and Glacier (similar to Felix/Isaac with Stone Spire). But yeah...I can't believe I forgot about making growth available on them as characters XuX what was I thinking?

Yeah, as time went on, I kinda realized, going for making the game faster is becoming less of a thing for me now. I think with how the hack is, I want to go for customization and character building... I'll see what i can do about that. Because for me, the mod is becoming less about convenience and more about options. (which the battle mode hack will really gear up for such as balancing out every equipment so you aren't stuck with Metas and OP weapons like sol blade simply for base damage)

And yeah, the problem with why I hadn't address OP weapons yet is because I'm doing everything as I go rather than just going off what I think. I've actually replaying through the game and trying many different scenarios and tests in order to open up gameplay styles for the player.

I most certainly had no idea about the psynergy stuff though since it's my first patch after all X3, and when I was making this, I was just experimenting around with what came to mind. But that definitely sounds pretty awesome. I don't know how those work or how they can be implemented yet, but I can't wait to find out. I most likely may go with Leaf and Squirtle's approach since I'm looking for that kind of thing.

As for the shaman rod, I did that just for fun. Until I finish the mod, it'll stay that way for now just for laughs and giggles and then I'll switch it back to what it used to be. I shall warn ahead of time, that some decisions I make for this aren't always calculated or have a lot of thought to them. Some things I do because...well, I'm not entirely sure myself which is why it might seem rather odd. I guess I just like to try things that people normally don't try? I don't know. But don't worry about the shaman rod, that's temporary.

Thank you so much for all the help though. I'll fix what I can right now, and then I'll probably just end up dedicating the mod towards letting the player sandbox around with the game. Convenience is being tossed out the window as you helped me come down to the decision.

While it's explained on my reddit, I didn't explain it here. It made me rather sad to gain some new awesome weapons and then be like...well, I already got these weapons during the eastern sea so, I have no use for these anymore. And I just can't stand to see something in front of me not go to use. I always end up thinking, wait, maybe the reason it's weaker is because there's a special thing about it I need to discover, but for most of these weapons, that wasn't entirely the case. I wanted to test around with the weapon and maybe be able to use it without the burden of knowing, "well, this weapons is much weaker than this one greater weapon I already have."

I honestly am not sure how to describe that...XoX. Like, I want things to have a purpose you know? I want equipments to not just be instant toss aways. Like for instance, I made some earlier equipment still a little valuable if you want to concentrate a character in Jupiter power by making it seem like "this full set of armor will make you stronger than you normally would be with anything else for this element...though, of course, it's not as strong as the later armors you will get in the west sea, but you'll benefit as a glass canon in that case."

And what I do here will somewhat be transferred over to the "Battle Mode Hack" I'll make once this is all done. The battle mode hack will basically balance out the equipment to all be viable in the same way western sea to end game equipment is (still with different stat numbers and what not) but it'll give the player the sand-box like freedom to make any kind of party and character they want.

I think I want that to be my end goal. What do you think? Would that be possible?  (sorry for my long post also ><. I was just replying to your questions and feedback, and then I kinda realized through you, hey, I think I should just do this instead then since this is what I feel stronger towards.)
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 01:37:54 AM »

I'll try to give you advice on the hints you dropped here and there

Quote
open up different scenarios and tests in order to open up gameplay styles for the player.
open up gameplay styles as "make every setup worth it" = not overshadowed by summon rush and megiddo? If so I can lend a hand, my whole mod basically revolves around that concept

Quote
I most certainly had no idea about the psynergy stuff [...] I don't know how those work or how they can be implemented yet, but I can't wait to find out. I most likely may go with Leaf and Squirtle's approach since I'm looking for that kind of thing.
If you have doubts about any patch just ask the author(s). I doubt there will be conflicts on a rom that has only be altered by the editor, so can just patch and go but if you're curious about how they work the author or a thread about it (if there's one) are your only clues.

Quote
While it's explained on my reddit, I didn't explain it here. It made me rather sad to gain some new awesome weapons and then be like...well, I already got these weapons during the eastern sea so, I have no use for these anymore.
This is something that bothered me too and i have addressed this issue in both mods. In the old Balance Age mod I just altered weapons accordingly so that everything you gained while playing was an improvement over what you already had, in the Reloaded mod i also rearranged some treasures. So you can go check my threads or ask me directly about this part.

Quote
I think I want that to be my end goal. What do you think? Would that be possible?
as long as you don't plan to drastically alter the game, almost everything is possible. It depends only on how far you're willing to go. Still, don't worry too much about setting an end goal since you just started modding GS. I'm telling you thins cause it will probably change MANY times from now on. For starters, i think you should lurk around here in search for knowledge and ideas, since as you can see most of the thing you proposed have already been discussed here over the years.

Hope I helped, good luck with your mods!
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 10:08:33 PM »

Yeah, some of the changes I want to do just can't be done - for example, I want to change it so that summons actually summon as a non-targetable guest character in a slot behind the summoner.  Not only is that an overhaul that would be maddening to implement, the GBA straight up couldn't handle it anyways (not enough VRAM, iirc - same reason why you never fight an enemy adept team.  Facing 4 medium sized foes at once causes graphical issues), as well as the introduction of Casting and Warding as spell offense and defense, which of course has it's own myriad of issues.  At this point, I'm better off just making a new game rather than trying to mod it into GS.

So keep your expectations a bit manageable, and check with some of the more experienced members like Squirtle to see if something can realistically be done.
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 07:37:55 PM »

Role's got some valid points there...

However, even then, the VRAM issue could likely be solved by changing the Bitmap mode / managing the graphics/whatever elsewhere if needed... and then overwriting that to the VRAM (Like gluing layers together.) HOWEVER, one should note such an approach would be time consuming, and likely not worth it for basic hacks.

Still, having a small RAM limit at all is reason enough to switch to making a PC-based game.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 07:45:23 PM by Fox » Logged

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Atrius: @Javi3, Lo siento, ya no tengo tiempo.
June 22, 2017, 08:57:37 PM
Fox: @conundrum = Think about 8/16/32 bit aligned address, and what that means... Etc.
June 22, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Fox: @Space manager thought for gsmagic = What a conundrum... Whelp... I'll just do whatever.... Probably would waste more time thinking about preventing bugs than coding anyway. :P
June 21, 2017, 09:30:34 AM
Fox: Because he quit a long time ago and has other priorities?
June 21, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
javi3: Atrius, por que no sigues con el editor de golden sun?
June 20, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
Fox: It feels like the safest bet is to do Atrius's repointering system, and have something that organizes the tables done a bit separate... er... Well, it's something to think about.
June 20, 2017, 08:53:41 AM
Fox: HOWEVER... I can see other problems that might cause..... (Even with just the pointer in the MFT)  Meh. It's like you actually need a program to apply patches to do it appropriately.
June 20, 2017, 08:46:38 AM
Fox: ... So... What am I thinking? You ask? That the patches the point data after MFT, should have had pointers in the MFT themselves.... In that case, I can see a possibility of everything working smoothly even if space is needed to the very end of the ROM.
June 20, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
Fox: It's basically that everthink from the point of  editing, to the closest free space to the last entry's address would get repointed forward/backwards depending on space needed... and if space is mapped after patches are added, then that could mean the patches are also repointed. (:o)
June 20, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
Fox: Well, I mean if I map the space out the same way Atrius did it.
June 20, 2017, 08:26:41 AM
Fox: I have a hunch... when I add Map Palette editing the way I'm thinking about... it will cause all patches that repoint to after the MFT to break.... Especially if Atrius's editor wasn't used beforehand. Etc.
June 20, 2017, 07:27:17 AM
Fox: Hmmm... Let's see... regardless of method, I think I still do want to take some of Atrius's Space Manager code... Hmm.....
June 20, 2017, 07:07:27 AM
Fox: say*
June 20, 2017, 07:07:19 AM
Fox: I'd go so far as to see.. even if you are trying to be accurate, there could still be inaccuracies... However, that one was just an example where it was clearly intentional.
June 20, 2017, 07:04:03 AM
Fox: Like*

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