Pokémon!

[Misery]

We already have a Kanto remake, it's called FireRed/LeafGreen. And I personally found them very disappointing, to the point that I prefer the original Red and Blue. I consider those excellent games though, despite the many bugs and design flaws. The GBA remakes didn't fix any of those flaws, abilities contributed little to nothing, having mostly passive effects (I expect they were originally just filler data since the pokémon themselves existed before the games), and EVs/natures just meant you might end up with horribly underpowered pokémon if you don't watch out. It's also the generation that needs the physical/special attack split more than any other, half of the pokémon in it still can't do what they were designed for even in the remake. I really don't see what's so great about those games. Good thing the Touhou patches got made and redeemed them a hundred times over.

^oops, rant warning lol

Anyway, about not liking the first 150, if we're talking about the designs... I think every generation has an about equal distribution of likable designs (about 1/3 of good, acceptable, and stupid each). Maybe B/W had a few more stupid ones, but anyways. It also feels like the 3rd and 5th generation changed the direction of the monster design quite drastically compared to their predecessors.

[Kide]

@FR/LF being disappointing: Yeah, I think that may be kind of a common feeling. I mean, poor Kingler. It was just as useless as in Gen 1, perhaps even more. Now it is just... bad. Also, some things like Gyarados and Dragonite at least got Earthquake, which was kinda weird for them not having it back then, but even so, it wasn't enough. About EVs/Natures... I remember writing a rant post about those on one forum I used to go back then, mainly comparing stats overalls for a specific poke with the changed mechanics. Plus, it was so much simpler with Stat Experience... But yeah, it was needed to change.

And I really don't dislike any specific Pokemon, being it by usefulness or design. Sure, there are some really useless stuff (hello Delibird, Unown, etc) and there are some really weird designs as well (Klink family, Vanillite family, ...), but the Pokemon world is already too weird to begin with, so I try not to care.

[Rolina]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate the new designs?  I look at all the designs, and there's an equal ratio of good to crappy designs in every single gen.  I just... I can't see why people love the originals so much while hating the new ones.

[Aile~♥]

Me neither. Grimer is just as fail as trubbish, so people should stop whining. Also Tauros. And Jynx, and Bellsprout, and Magmar, and Electabuzz. (though Elekid and Electivire are awesome.) And Drowzee, definitely. So people should stop hating. And Oshawott is cute and badass, so there.

[Durza]

Tepig, on the other hand, is not. I try not to say that some of the pokemon designs are terrible, but... they put in an ice cream. Why?

[Aile~♥]

They put in a spotted mime thing. Why?

[Awec]

I like most Pokemon, and the ones I don't are due to a combination of poor design and utter uselessness.
I like Bidoof. I am the 1%. But seriously, that thing is adorable and made even more so by Mystery Dungeon.

Having said that, there are a buttload of Pokemon I think could have been so much better; simple things like giving Charizard, Gyarados and numerous others a secondary Dragon type instead of the stupidly common Flying type; giving Parasect decent stats; not having 2 adorable Dragon worm things evolve into a joke - seriously, I hate Dragonite; Dunsparce, Smeargle, Unown etc. the list goes on longer with each generation.
Ok, they're slowly fixing these sort of problems by giving the useless 'mon evolutions. What I don't get is why they don't just do a Magnemite/Ton and retconning this sort of thing.

[Rolina]

Tepig pissed people off more with the family's typing, not with the concept of a fire pig.  Self-cooking bacon is awesome.  The third Fire/Fighting starter in a row?  Seriously?  Dood, you could have - and should have - gone Fire/Ground.

Hell, Piplup went Water/Steel.  That @#$% was awesome.  So... why are we repeating the same type combo for three gens with the Fire Starters?

[Kide]

Er... I hope you people are not thinking I hate the new designs by saying that some of those are weird, because... that's not true. Being weird doesn't mean I hate 'em. Like I said, I don't dislike any Pokemon, and like it's been said here already, all gens got good and bad designs. Just clarifying what I said.

[Misery]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate the new designs?  I look at all the designs, and there's an equal ratio of good to crappy designs in every single gen.  I just... I can't see why people love the originals so much while hating the new ones.

Loving everything in the first gen has to be nostalgia, while there are some pretty good designs, there's just as many farfetch'd and downright ridiculous ones. And every new batch is kind of hit-and-miss at first, like I was saying, although I usually grow to like many of them after a while (and ignore the rest).

The latest gen feels different though. Some designs are really cartoony and goofy, while others are very serious and alien, and don't really seem to belong in the same game. And then there's throh/sawk and the goth line which are basically people, and it's just so wrong (hitmonchan has that problem too). I do like many of the desings, but there seems to be no consistency in the style whatsoever.

Grimer is just as fail as trubbish, so people should stop whining.

BLASPHEMY
and muk is awesome ._.

Also Tauros. And Jynx, and Bellsprout, and Magmar, and Electabuzz.

Hey. I think magmar is pretty cool, at least if you can ignore the flame pattern. A fire duck/salamander, I mean how cool is that? But yeah, they are stupid. What's even more stupid is their evolutions and baby forms introduced in fourth gen. I particularly hate Magnezone, way to ruin a cool pokémon.

[Rolina]

They were supposed to be pretty different, though - remember that the goal here was to make a region on a totally different continent half a world away.  I'll also disagree with you on the whole "cartoony" thing.  Hell, dood, to me Pikachu is a freaking symbol of "Cartoony".  This is a non-issue.  Sawk and Throh, as well as the gothitelle lines... Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, as well as Jynx.  Dood, there's seriously parallels between this gen and the first.  They just gave Gothitelle a whole line rather than being a standalone that needs expansion later.

And no, Muk is a pile of crap.  Literally. :awesomesmiley:

The thing is, most of the Gen 5 hate is produced by people trying to hate it.  Some of these claims are really pushing it.  They're no more valid than the whole "Gen I and II were the best thing".  Gen I I'm sick of, and I thought Gen II sucked.  So... yeah.  Internet fanboys out there?  Deal with it.

[Misery]

The issue isn't that they're "cartoony", it's that the style clashes with not only the other generations, but also with 'mons in the same game. And unlike many others from its era, Pikachu actually has a really tasteful design.

I forgot about Jynx, but don't try to tell me Hitmonlee looks human, unless everything having arms and legs looks human. The idea was bad in gen 1, and it still is.

And no, Muk is a pile of crap.  Literally. :awesomesmiley:

An awesome pile of crap, then.

I'm not trying to hate Gen 5, I'm trying to like it. And I do, just not as much as the other games in the series. The game design as a whole feels kind of strange, not bad exactly, but it's like they put all the right people in the wrong place. Gen II improved upon Gen I, Gen IV improved upone Gen III... Gen 3 and 5 only pushed the series in a different direction, however.

Gen II... there's a fine example of how things should be done. They aren't my favorite, but they're still outstanding games even today, and easily the best titles for their system. That's where I stand.

[Rolina]

So basically, you don't like the americas as much because the wildlife is different than what you're used to in Japan. *sagenod*

[leaf]

From my understanding, gen 5 is the first generation that didn't completely change the mechanics. It's the only one I think that can be argued to be "an improvement" over the previous generation, rather than just different. Gen 2 was substantially different from gen 1, gen 3 was substantially different from gen 2, and gen 4 was substantially different from gen 3. You can't call gen 2 merely an "improvement" over gen 1 when it introduced the special split and added two whole new types, just as you can't call gen 4 merely an "improvement" over gen 3 when it made physical/special designated by move instead of type. These are sweeping mechanics changes. There are other nuances to the mechanics changes between generations, but these are the major ones that you're likely to feel even when playing against the CPU.

I'd say the most sweeping mechanics changes were either from gen 1 to gen 2 or gen 2 to gen 3. Gen 3 to gen 4 saw smaller changes than either of the previous transitions (though still substantial), and gen 4 to gen 5 saw very few significant mechanics changes.

[Rolina]

...Huh?

We're talking about how pokemon look.  What are YOU talking about?

[Aile~♥]

He's talking about game mechanics. We're talking about Pokemons' appearances and the games' storylines. lolfail, leaf.

[Salanewt]

I think he is using game mechanics to contribute to the debate about which generations may or may not be good or bad. Generally, because of how they usually overhaul the core mechanics between each generation, they are all really different. However, the fifth generation introduced few major changes to the mechanics, and was meant to merely be an improvement to what already exists.


As for appearances/graphics and visual looks, I have to agree with Misery. Sure, there are some nice ones in the new batch (like Dwebble), but most of them fail to really catch my eye - and they still haven't gotten close either. I can agree with the hit or miss thing, but this generation's Pokemon have almost all missed if compared to previous generations... But then again, this is just my opinion on the matter.

[Aile~♥]

Legendaries this gen are awesome, for one thing. Also, Golurk, Bisharp, Zoroark, and Dewott are my favourite non-legendaries. Cinccino is cool, too.

[Salanewt]

I like some of them, but others feel a bit off to me - I don't know why. Dewott looks cool, but am I the only one who thinks that it should also be Fighting type? I mean, its highest evolution's name is made up of samurai and otter.

Cinccino is cute, such a little cappuccino monster!

Bisharp is okay, but it reminds me of the Axem Rangers for some reason.

As for the others, no comment.

[Rolina]

Bisharp is supposed to remind you of it.  They were based on super sentai, as were the Axems.  Golurk is the giant robot they summon.