Obama Passes Health Care

[thenightsshadow]

I'm wondering what the general opinion of this event is, and I've been asking around the places I visit.

I figured I might as well ask here.

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

I'm not really bothered. I don't watch the news (I don't watch much TV) and I don't really care about politics.

[Rolina]

ITT:  We discuss the end of the United States.  There's no way in hell we can afford this.  We're screwed.

To compare:

You just bought Health and Life Insurance designed for the most wealthy and uber-risk person out there (eg:  A Bill Gates who makes his money skydiving or something else with high risk of death/injury).  It costs an arm and a leg - which the wealthy can pay.

BUT YOU MAKE MINIMUM WAGE.

There's no way in hell you can afford this financially, and congrats, bankruptcy has now become inevitable for you.

If we weren't in a recession, it may not be that bad, but WE'RE IN A FREAKING RECESSION. >_>

[Charon]

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!

...sorry to say, conservatives, but I've been rooting for nationalized healthcare since 2007. I think this is a great leap forward. Socialism isn't necessarily the source of all evils in of itself... GLENN BECK.

The common (and seemingly only logical) argument against such nationalized healthcare is that the taxes would be too much of a strain on American people. Despite this, many people don't realize that insurance companies are great at making life hell, especially when something actually pops up - sometimes they'll try to find whatever they can to not cover, sometimes on the borderline outrageous (and not just because Michael Moore said so lol). In addition, because some people who do not have any insurance get hurt, and must be treated by law, the money used to take care of those people is obtained by raising the cost of healthcare, thus raising how much money an insurer must pay, thus raising how much money we pay as well.

Indeed a nationalized healthcare plan will cost us money for those living in poverty, either by their own choices or not, but it's important to consider how those who would have it would now be covered under the government, which means that hospitals would be able to keep prices at a lower cost. To be honest, I think that a set of rules (or even something similar along the lines of Theodore Roosevelt's trustbusting) could also help the healthcare crisis.

The insurance companies right now currently have the power to raise their prices like a cartel, since health insurance is something that is an extremely important safety net - which allows them to take advantage of us. Call it capitalism, but in it's purest form, it can only lead to trouble.

Of course, not to say that I'm a communist either. Socialism, the middle ground, is probably a better solution than either too much or too little control.

/lolwut truth

[Aile~♥]

^this.

P.S. Charon, was that a ToS reference there?

[Salanewt]

Well, I might as well help throw some things in here (since I have been doing research on government and law lately, I would like to try to contribute).

Side A: Agrees with health care.
Reasons: Virtually free health care, funding for which is much cheaper and is accessible to everyone (but paid through taxes and/or other means).

Side B: Opposes it.
Reasons: I am actually not sure why, but I think Role mentioned something about not being able to afford it (especially during the recession).

For more information about which countries have Universal Health Care, you can visit this place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

There is also an image, different countries by their type of Health Care (or lack of it) are colour coordinated. This is outdated as of today it seems.

Also, I honestly see nothing wrong with Health Care, being from a country which has had it for almost 30 years now. I suppose I am in group A, but I would imagine that our Health Care works differently than it does in the States.

Now, I hope that I have at least added a tiny bit more to the conversation.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Meh, I've stopped trying to argue.  We're screwed no matter what I or anyone else - Glenn Beck included - tries to do.  Forget about whether or not we should - even though the majority said HELL NO, congress passed it anyways.  Meaning, it no longer matters what we say, they'll do whatever they want, and we can't do anything about it.

So yeah, remember.  When it turns around and bites you in the @#$, Charon, I'll be laughing at you.  I did NOT do the Glenn Beck approach.  I did the crunching numbers approach.  Perhaps you should do the math as well.  I mean, our country is already @#$ deep in dept as it is.  We ALREADY HAD HEALTHCARE TO BEGIN WITH (Psst, it's called Medicaid/Medicare!), insurance companies would have accepted anyone anyways (but if you're sick, since you're going to be more of a strain on the pool of money, you're gonna be charged a bit more, since that's what makes sense), but hey, who cares about that, right?

Let's let the government do it.  Because they've done a GREAT job in the past now, haven't they?

[Ninja Steve]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm easily manipulated. For example, seeing Role rant about how blatantly WRONG this is makes me want to support it instead of not giving a damn like I've done up to this point. That being said, my parents are against it too, and since they seem to be opposed to near-everything that makes my life run the way I want it to, I can only assume that this is good, right?

/stillreallydoesn'tcare

[Charon]

The government is capable of doing things right, at least some of the time, and a psychopath with a chalkboard who can't control his emotional outbursts is not going to cause me to change from that view (yeah, go @#$% yourself, Beck).  Fear mongering is an effective propaganda strategy that unfortunately has gripped America, so don't give me some bullshit "sympathy" argument (although you didn't go that far into it, thank God).

Indeed this bill will be an investment, and like any investment, it has risks. It is far too early, in my humble opinion, to say those risks are far to great. It is important to consider that most people who will be covered by it will not be using healthcare services as often as those in old age or are disabled. I personally feel that the public option will be a safety net to those who will not be able to take care of their health benefits themselves, and those who then can afford it after being supported by the government for a while can move onto a private insurer if they so please. I'm one who prefers "the greater good" over "everyone can build their own future" in a situation like this, so yes, I can call myself a socialist. However, I feel that it is a human responsibility to support my neighbour with basic needs, and I feel that healthcare is one of them, and I feel that I should give them that, even if it costs me that new Mercedes Benz (although I feel that will not be my case hurhur) - "for the greater good".

I feel a bit more comfortable thinking that I, when I get out of college, don't have to worry about getting sent to the ER and ruining my and my family's life and investments simply because I cannot afford health insurance. I want to do some freelance stuff in my spare time, such as professional murals - and now (well, hopefully), I can go into that field knowing that in the event that I do sustain some kind of injury that the events mentioned earlier would not happen, or at least to a much lesser extent. Private Health Insurance is expensive, and being in a completely unregulated environment, it is also the fuel for greed - healthcare is a necessity, after all, and it's easy to take advantage of it. There's a reason why Teddy busted the Standard Oil Trust back in the beginning of the 20th century, and there's a reason why we should bust the Health Care Industry now.

On the subject of polls, I feel that the likes of FOX news has been biasing the view of the whole debate to an unacceptable leve (for example, many times poll percentages on their graphs don't add up), however, all news outlets are to blame as well. If as many people watched C-SPAN as they watch CNN or FOX, maybe they would see past the agendas of the newscasters and see the actual senators/representatives themselves voting or discussing the bill.

C-SPAN is as boring as @#$% though, so I couldn't see that happening. lol

Back on topic, I honestly feel that this could go either way, but not into the realm of slippery slope (i.e, GOVERNMENT CONTROLS EVERYTHING WE ALL DIE OF CATASTROPHE OH MY GOD or GEE EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL WE ALL LIVE FOREVER WEEEE). I think the public option will be a test for America, and if we fail, we can revert it back. We are in a recession, however, a big reason WHY we are in a recession is because people couldn't afford to pay off their credit card bills or their mortgages... and if you can't afford your health insurance and something goes wrong... where's that money going to come from? I'd rather have that come out of someone on Wall Street who's raking in millions (and even now there are those people) rather than my empty wallet.

It's important to consider that instead of trying to negotiate something with the Democrats, such as a bill that only regulates the health care industry instead of a full out nationalized health care option, the Republicans rather would waste our tax dollars stalling the bill for the sake of "getting at Obama". Don't you dare tell me that there was any other reason for it - I can't say I love Obama or even the Democrats for that matter, but stop sucking up the American tax dollars for your stupid partisan quarrels. For once, and I mean for both major parties, we need to think beyond the majority and keeping that majority. These people are intended to represent the American people, and I'm sure that deep down inside they have that capacity to do so, however, the idea of "winning" (Democrats) and "beating the other side no matter whether it is moral or not" (Republicans) is a foolish debate and should be resolved in what's right for the people, not the party.

...I am so @#$%&*! well moving to Canada when I get my art degree. Windsor, in fact. Because it's like Detroit. Only that it doesn't suck. I like the idea of not being a part of the laughing stock of the developed world.

lol jew

[thenightsshadow]

...I am so ###ing well moving to Canada when I get my art degree. Windsor, in fact. Because it's like Detroit. Only that it doesn't suck. I like the idea of not being a part of the laughing stock of the developed world.

You don't like British Columbia? :(

[Aile~♥]

^this.

WHY, CHARON WHY???

XD

[Mion Sonozaki]

Canada is awesome. Ontario is a really great place xD

[Rolina]

TL:DR - Charon is a liberal/progressive/whatever who has never actually watched Glenn Beck and just believes whatever she hears about him form he friends in the blogosphere.

Got it.  Charon, you win - I won't argue with you any longer.  Futile efforts are futile, after all.

[Atrius (He/Him)]

I'm gonna have to recommend this video in relation to this subject.

[thenightsshadow]

Ah yes.  I remember watching that (it's on Comedy Network for us Canadians).  I came away from that thinking that was one of the best parodies I'd seen in a long time.

[Ninja Steve]

TL:DR - Charon is a liberal/progressive/whatever who has never actually watched Glenn Beck and just believes whatever she hears about him form he friends in the blogosphere.

Got it.  Charon, you win - I won't argue with you any longer.  Futile efforts are futile, after all.

Conclusion based on post: Charon is actually right. Isn't reverse psychology fun?

[Rolina]

Have you seen the parody of Glenn that South Park did?  I heard it was pretty funny.

[Ninja Steve]

Nah, I don't watch TV. Or follow politics. Or anything like that.

I know what some of you might be thinking: "Oh man Ninja Steve, you should care more about politics and stuff!" Well, like with so many other things, I've been reverse psychology'd into thinking otherwise. Mostly because my parents, who think the stiff is so important, are the same people who place more in religion than their friends (something I personally find appalling) and try to convince me that D&D is Satanic (after dad having played it himself for awhile; based on my own experience it's no more satanic than any other game).

That being said, when I form an opinion about something within the political arena, it tends to be the opposite of what my parents think, or, on the occasion that I don't actively oppose them, the opposite of somebody else I'm known for disagreeing with. Or even on the same side as somebody I respect. Since my parents are extremely anti-Obama, they hate this. I'm not really pro-Obama, but quite honestly, it's fun to see all the h8rs squirming right now.

tl;dr version: Ninja Steve takes the side of his friends, and the opposite side from his enemies, regardless of what logic dictates.

[Tetsuya the Azure Blade]

and try to convince me that D&D is Satanic (after dad having played it himself for awhile; based on my own experience it's no more satanic than any other game).

Dood WTF!?! D&D is Satanic??? *facepalm* OMG! Don't they realize that D&D is JUST A GAME!!??
They think D&D is "evil"! *laughs hystercally* As a D&D player myself, I find this quite annoying, I play it a lot and you don't see me tryin' to summon demons.....
It was the same with metal, what next? Are they gonna say that anime is evil?

What is it with "them" and role playing games? They've even said that POKEMON *facepalm* is satanic....
When will they stfu and grow a pair, eh?

Aaa-aand I'm REALLY off topic now, so I'll just go WAY OVER THERE *points to pluto*

[Ninja Steve]

I don't summon anything. The summon spells are all lame.[/badjoke]

And yeah, my parents give off the impression that anything that doesn't relate to religion is evil.