Intro

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

That sounds probable. Either way, I think Role is more about business than "kiddy-fun."

I'm not sure exactly, but I once read somewhere that it was once the start of a new year. (If I remember correctly.)

[Knight of Purgatory]

Coincidentally, does anyone know how April 1st came to be known as "April Fools' Day"?

April's fools day has something to do with taping fish on the back? Or was that something else. Dont remember

[Thunder-squall]

"Adept Trolls" sounds hilarious. I mean it's so obviously a good-natured joke.  But yeah, if you don't like April Fools, just don't come in for a few days.  The friction with Role was obviously a long time and persistent problem (Charon said she'd been wanting out for months)... Guys, that was a serious problem.  Long term and steady harassment like the type Role was engaged in is actually a serious form of bullying.  I don't quite have the more informational links ready at hand, but I'd really encourage you to just block individual members like that so you don't have to hear from them.  Don't wait for mods to protect you.  Protect yourself.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

Perhaps, but also remember that we each see the story from our point of view, so who knows exactly how Role saw it, and how Charon saw it.

Global Moderation
The big question I have is, how come I don't remember her ever being banned here at this site for "bullying"? I do remember Role used to be a Global Moderator at one point, but then she eventually got demoted. (Forgot why.) JamietheFlameUser was once a Global Moderator as well, but was one only for a while. (There's that one topic that he didn't take responsibility for that caused his demotion. I was the topic creator of that topic, and that ofcourse, evetually led to Kain being our next GM.)

Forum Games
There was a time Role even threatened to get rid of the Forum Games forum (At a time after the demotion, I think.), complaining about how everyone goes in there to post spam. (Ban The User Above has the most
posts in this forum.) In the end, posts created in Forum Games no longer appear on the Recent Posts list. Now, hardly anyone ever goes to post in that forum.

Or was Role just trying to bully Charon into being an extension of her informal power, and this idea that " a lot of people were mad at Charon" was basically a myth perpetuated by Role and her unwitting (or intentional?) allies?

I think "a lot" would be exageration. Atrius, Takumi (I think.), me, and one or two others seem to not like the extension of April Fools either. (Back at the time.)  Maybe in part, I was bothered that Charon banned me from trying to reveal the Troll program she used for converting her text. (Since there was a time when she posted an image with such an application in the task bar, but she updated her image to remove the evidence, and tried to remove where I reveal the program. If I said anything about it in the chatbox, she'd delete the entire message. If I posted in the forums, she'd edit my post, and replace the keywords with her own words or something.) ; And ofcourse, shortly thereafter, I was chatting on YL's chatbox to inform Salanewt the details. (Since he would be the main person I would be interested in speaking with, anyway.)

I do recall Salanewt, on the other hand, enjoying it.

[Thunder-squall]

@ Global Moderation; Forum Games etc:  I'll try and talk about them since you brought them up, but these are obviously things I'm not familiar with, and didn't explicitly bring up. But I'll do my best.

1) Global Moderation

You don't remember Role being banned for bullying because she wasn't ever caught for it.  Slow-burn, subtle stuff rarely gets caught, and mods tend to prefer to "keep the peace" rather than solve the problem.  This is an endemic problem we see all across the web, and it isn't confined to your community.  I think the big problem with Role was people thought her behavior was a short-term, temporary problem, when instead it was becoming an increasingly permanent and important part of her personality.

My question is: Why did such a little site like this require so many moderators?

2) Forum Games, and you being banned.

Basically, Teawater, you were not being punished.  If you feel you were being punished, then you've misunderstood the situation, and Charon's apologized to you about it already.  Looking a few posts above, you'll notice Kioll say something like "I'm not going to tell," and then you go ahead and basically tell everything.  While I thank you very much for that, why do you suppose Kioll was saying "I'm not going to tell?"

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

*Face-palm.*

1.) I was trying to say that I don't remember Charon ever banning Role (aka: Finding a way to get back, by looking for even the smallest evidence of rule-breaking.), but I see it was a mistake to announce that. So nevermind.  Especially when you consider how much Role helped keep this community alive (See her post count.), so I can see how difficult that may be. ; What gave you the idea we thought it was short-term/temporary? To me, she's always been the type of drama person. -- Perhaps making it somewhat harder to enforce rules, since her personality would be to blame.

2.) Yes, I know I wasn't being "punished"... but I don't look at pretend banning as being a joke. (Unless there's some decent meaning for it-and I'm not the only one.) I even posted a screenshot of the ban message once, and it wasn't exactly the type of kind message I'd want, either.  I do, however, accept her apology. (If I haven't said it before, which I don't think I did.) ; There was also a point where she said she would explain about it over PMs, but I believe I thought to myself that I was perfectly fine with it being explained in the topic, but I don't think I said anything about that..

Also, we only had one Global Moderator at any given moment, as far as I know. When one gets fired, another gets hired. (I think.) ; The most staff at any given moment was probably 5. (2 admins, 1 GM, and 2 mods... back when this was GSHC Classic.)

He wasn't going to tell, because he doesn't want to get involved in the "negative" things that go on in this Community?


You say everything? Meh. Perhaps I should just leave the rest of the details out. (And even if I did say everything, I'm sure a ton of it would probably be misleading, and it doesn't help when you consider how much time it would take to go through it all.)




Edit: I guess it is fair enough to say that behavior can be contagious as well. With the sub-conscious mind and all.

[Thunder-squall]

fair enough.  I think I've caught up on all the old dirt anyway.  Basically, once the "fun and games' stopped on the forums, the "non workers" basically took off, leaving only behind the supposed 'hard core.'

... no, wait.  That doesn't quite add up...

[Kioll]

mods tend to prefer to "keep the peace" rather than solve the problem.

Looking a few posts above, you'll notice Kioll say something like "I'm not going to tell," and then you go ahead and basically tell everything.  While I thank you very much for that, why do you suppose Kioll was saying "I'm not going to tell?"

In truth, I've known about Charon's return to the site for a while.  I talk to her on Skype.  Also, Sala.  In truth, I know pretty well what's going on with the topics you've brought up.  And in truth, it's not my story to tell.

In truth, Role may or may not have been bullying.  But to be fair, some of us have bullied back, I suppose.  In truth, I've done some of that myself.  In truth, I've always hated mods that are about "keeping the peace", and have never been that kind of mod when I've been a mod.  If you're a mod and the community loves you 100%, you're doing something wrong, usually.

In truth, this whole story is probably better off buried.  In truth, I'm certain that several people know more than they've told here.  And in truth, you've learned about all that you will about this story from the site itself.  The only way to learn more is to talk to Role, Charon, and Sala themselves, and find out from them what you seek.  Because frankly, as much as I know about this, in truth, it's not my story to tell.

[Thunder-squall]

I'm totally dropping the subject, because these are strangers who I don't know nor care about.  But maybe a week ago or so I found myself reading through the old April Fools threads, and then some other stuff.  The opinions and guesses I've formed on the subject from that are my own (incorrect as they may be).  The only thing I'll say on the subject is "don't feel bad about blocking people," and "block people sooner rather than later."  You can always unblock them as needed.

But lol, sorry Wolf. This was your introduction thread.  How've you been enjoying the place so far?

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

In truth, I've known about Charon's return to the site for a while.  I talk to her on Skype.  Also, Sala.  In truth, I know pretty well what's going on with the topics you've brought up.  And in truth, it's not my story to tell.

In truth, Role may or may not have been bullying.  But to be fair, some of us have bullied back, I suppose.  In truth, I've done some of that myself.  In truth, I've always hated mods that are about "keeping the peace", and have never been that kind of mod when I've been a mod.  If you're a mod and the community loves you 100%, you're doing something wrong, usually.

In truth, this whole story is probably better off buried.  In truth, I'm certain that several people know more than they've told here.  And in truth, you've learned about all that you will about this story from the site itself.  The only way to learn more is to talk to Role, Charon, and Sala themselves, and find out from them what you seek.  Because frankly, as much as I know about this, in truth, it's not my story to tell.

Yeah, in the end, my thoughts go towards it being a story worth not being told, yes. But sometimes history can be interesting. (Like how a company designing something you like started.) And if a story you tell is deemed misleading, or someone interprets it wrong... it's definitely doing more harm than good. And there's nothing wrong with not knowing the details at all. (You know that saying: What you don't know can't hurt you. - Although, it's not entirely correct, in my opinion... Since metaphorically... knowledge is freedom.)

@bullied back: One example of how behavior can be contagious...

Hmm... About the community loving you 100%. It all just depends on if members follow rules or not. If everyone is following the rules perfectly, I don't see how it would hurt for a mod to be loved 100%?

[Thunder-squall]

Hmm... About the community loving you 100%. It all just depends on if members follow rules or not. If everyone is following the rules perfectly, I don't see how it would hurt for a mod to be loved 100%?

Lol, that's a bit "IF."  I got nothing against rules, but I tend not to trust them.  Too often they tend to be tools of some against the other.  Things like mercy and leniency have philophical weight precisely because our greatest thinkers have long since understood the fallibility of law.  And perhaps as a tangent, I think it's interesting how stuff like Carnival, the Masquerade, or the Bacchanalia exist-- things which specifically turn rules on their head.  I suppose the biggest thing I disagree with Charon's April Fool's stuff was that it was non-consensual, but hey, at least now you don't have her here bothering, so congratulations.  May law, order, and peace reign.

[Wolf]

But lol, sorry Wolf. This was your introduction thread.  How've you been enjoying the place so far?

@Thunder-squall;  No problem, I am glad to see the thread managed to host a few spontaneous discussions.  More activity is a good thing.  All this moderator talk is making me wonder if any positions are open.

[Thunder-squall]

Neither at the time being.  Wanted a new place to hang out beyond the usual places I visit.  There's a lot to read in the GSHC archives.

O yeah, you're primarily here just for the sake of activity, right?  What's the type of forum-stuff you typically like engaging in?  Is it the topics, or just the meta-aspect of being part of a group?

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

Just as it may be possible that no one can follow the rules/laws perfectly, I also doubt that no one can be loved by 100% of the community by a similar effect. (Over time, someone has got to slip up, no one is perfect.)

And I suppose we can think of Charon as family. (Sort of) ... And in one or two teensy ways, maybe even in thought of this quote.: "Can't live with them, can't live without them.".... However, that might not be the quote I was looking for. (Since I'd be more willing to have her than not.)



@Moderation: I'm wondering if any positions are open as well. (That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm planning on taking a position, simply just wondering is all.)

[Wolf]

Neither at the time being.  Wanted a new place to hang out beyond the usual places I visit.  There's a lot to read in the GSHC archives.

O yeah, you're primarily here just for the sake of activity, right?  What's the type of forum-stuff you typically like engaging in?  Is it the topics, or just the meta-aspect of being part of a group?

That's part of the reason.  For this type of website; Random Golden Sun related discussions and off topic rambling on various subjects.

[Thunder-squall]

When someone has mod powers, I wonder what kind of relationship that *forces* him or her to have with people:  family, friend, far-removed judge?  After Charon left, for example, a favored opinion seemed to be to have an outside become a moderator, so they could apply the law fairly.  And I do agree with that, since laws are the stable back-drop against which we can have healthy relationships.  But then it's almost as if those people who enforce the law are no longer free to be people.

But what I'm really thinking of now is my dad (whoa, way to get personal, right?), and how he sometimes kids around.  The problem is that when he does (he's quite mean spirited), it often causes problems because people in the family are overs sensitive to him.  Rather than brushing him off like the moron he sometimes can be, they get wounded.  It's kind of a lose-lose situation for everyone.

I don't think it *has* to be lonely at the top, but clearly it's still too often the case.

[Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas]

One of the problems with having an outside come is that they aren't "addicted" to this forum. So you cannot reasonably say that they will be active, and if they are... whether they be devoted. Even so, they'd probably end up quitting or becoming inactive over a long period of time. (Unless maybe they are modding for benefits like money?) ; And even if they did stay, they would eventually start forming bonds with people in the community (Even offsite, like on Skype) , and we would get to the point where it probably wouldn't be much different had someone else in the Community became a mod? (Hard to know.... Just hiring anyone as a moderator will be a change regardless-- I think that the people in the community will likely understand what is implied by the rules more than an outsider... when it comes to the level of strictness... soo?.)

One opinion that I had is let the people decide who's breaking the rules. If someone gets flagged, the moderators should look into it. - In some cases, the moderators can still take charge even when they are not flagged, though, but the consequences could be slightly less severe.

[Kain]

On one hand this topic has gone extremely off.  On the other it's activity so I don't think I'm really in a position to say anything.  Especially since I just lurk around and handle bots these days.

On that note, hello user who I have failed to greet for the LONGEST time.  The name is Kain, overlord of comedy, a pleasure to make your laughter.  If ya have any questions feel free to ask em or PM me if you don't want a public display.  If the questions interesting I may even get back to you within the month!

(I kid.  I'm fairly quick about replying to PM's.)

[Thunder-squall]

In the spirit of off-topic, where's your avatar from?  And is it a cry for help?

[Misery]

On one hand this topic has gone extremely off.  On the other it's activity so I don't think I'm really in a position to say anything.  Especially since I just lurk around and handle bots these days.

A display of sound judgment IMHO, that doesn't seem to be the kind of moderation this forum needs at the moment. However, everyone should keep in mind that it's not doing future readers any favors (since most likely, nobody will find this discussion in the future).

In the spirit of off-topic

You're tempting fate, I tells ya.