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[RELEASE] Golden Sun: The Balance Age

Started by Caledor, 24, January, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

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leaf

#560
QuoteHaunt: Wasn't it 1/8 chance of activation?
1/4 chance to take 1/4 of the damage you dealt that turn.

QuoteI think it goes up to 33% of the time from something like 10%?
I'm pretty sure the base chance of missing was either 1/16 or 1/64. I don't remember which, but I'm leaning toward the latter. And I thought it went to an ~80% chance to hit while under delusion, but I could be completely wrong on that.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

@Delusion:  Remember this? From the Elemental Weapons topic?
Quote@Attack:
If you have delusion, this check is made: If rand(0,255) <= 152, you'll miss. (aka: Multiplier thingy set to 0)
There is another check made regardless: 1/32 chance of missing.
I should probably double check the code, though.... Since it has been awhile. Unfortunately, I didn't list the code location in the topic, but it should be pretty obvious anyway...
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

leaf

#562
Well, I knew it was between 1/16 and 1/64... right? =p

152/255... so it's a 60% chance to hit miss during delusion.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Caledor

Quote from: Fox on 07, December, 2015, 12:57:54 AM
@Delusion:  Remember this? From the Elemental Weapons topic?
Quote@Attack:
If you have delusion, this check is made: If rand(0,255) <= 152, you'll miss. (aka: Multiplier thingy set to 0)
There is another check made regardless: 1/32 chance of missing.
I should probably double check the code, though.... Since it has been awhile. Unfortunately, I didn't list the code location in the topic, but it should be pretty obvious anyway...

QuoteWell, I knew it was between 1/16 and 1/64... right? =p

152/255... so it's a 60% chance to hit during delusion.

Wait, with those numbers isn't it a 60% chance to MISS?

leaf

Yeah, you're right. It's a 60% chance to miss. I misread.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

Aah, okay, thanks for clearing that ailment stuff up! I always seem to forget minor details like that.

So for a recap on what you want to change:

4-turn: Fox found that for you.
Delusion: You want to make it more effective and also give it priority over unleash, right?
Haunt: Activation rate.
Equipment curse: Ditto.

Does this sound right?
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Caledor

Yes, that pretty much sums it up. Just maybe with haunt also tweaking damage... but i'll know for sure only when i'll make the tests since it comes down to balancing it.

Salanewt

Sounds good. I have a feeling I will end up checking tonight, but I can't promise anything. Mostly because I'm on my last (and pretty short) paper, so I will either finish that today or be too tired and finish it tomorrow.

Can you think of anything else you'd like me to check?
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Caledor

ATM nothing comes to mind. And thanks pal, but please remember that there's no need at all to hurry... cause i don't know myself when i'll be able to check those values and try making the changes... i've got exams coming up too. ;)

Well... at worst it's gonna be during the holidays.

Rolina

Off chance you can give delusion priority over attack spells as well?  I mean, even with that, delusion would mean I just switch to spamming Odyssey.  If delusion could make it so spells no longer guarantee a hit, that'd be significant.

Caledor

#570
I don't think I will.
The reason is that such a change will make an entirely different status and a very high priority one to heal. This implies rebalancing in terms of psy, pp cost, class availability, enemy availability, status immunity and many more. We already have high priority heal statuses in sleep, stun and death curse, poison will stay at low priority, and Haunt will be moved to mid. Delusion will be the low priority status for mages and high for physical attackers. And the foil to Seal, which is high priority heal for mages and low for warriors.

Remember that psynergies like odyssey are often not even comparable to unleashes. They deal around 40% to 55% of damage and they deplete the already low PP pool of warriors. It's like saying that a sealed fateweaver (main offense: Scourge at BP 240) can just switch to attacking with the hope of unleashing Lachesis (35% base chance, often 40% due to Berserk Tiara, at BP 270).

BTW, I'm not even sure i'd be able to do it... since there's no line in the game for psynergy that "misses". Basically I'd have to code it from scratch.

Rolina

Ah - you see, that's exactly why I'd do it.  Essentially, it makes it just as big of a threat as other ailments.  As it stands, you can safely ignore it.  And I figured it'd involve changes to how psynergy was handled, but at the same time I figured it could easily be done by using physical attacks a basis for the change.

And yeah, I remember how things work.  I also know that things work different in practice than on paper.  Though... poison is low priority heal?  What, did you nerf it?  Or do you and I prioritize that one different?

Caledor

Poison is the same as vanilla. You think it's a threat? Cause I usually heal it once the battle is over.
BTW, yes as delusion is now it's lowest priority period cause the point of unleashing is that the you miss it the ~200 damage of the attack is a fluke all the same. I think that just making it affect unleashes is a huge step forward

Salanewt

Okay, some stuff.

GS2 (haven't checked GS1 yet, I will likely check it out later along with equipment curse).
#08122482 = Haunt Check (for if you have it)
#0812248C = Haunt Activation Check (RNG AND x03, so by default it is indeed a 1/4 chance to activate; uses an LSR instruction to calculate damage)

Also, Haunt will not activate if you win the battle, and it only deals 1/4 of the damage you deal to your primary target. There is another condition of some sort that comes before the actual damage calculation, but I don't know what it is. Probably doesn't matter a whole lot, but you never know.

#081239A8 = Equipment Curse Activation Check (same calculation as Haunt)


As for Delusion, I can confirm what Fox said about both the calculation (located precisely at #08124410 for missing with delusion) and the fact that there is a 1/32 check regardless, but it seems weird that there is no branch between them? No idea why unless it happens to be frame perfect, but I'm pretty doubtful about that.

Oh, and unleashes do in fact come first. That is referenced with a function call located at #08124398 with no conditional branches beforehand that can bypass the call, so... you may have some restructuring to do if you want delusion to even work on unleashes.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

leaf

Do bear in mind that there isn't actually any good way to *cure* haunt right now, unless you changed it. It's an extremely debilitating status as is, and the only reason why I don't usually heal it is because restore doesn't do anything to it, afaik. It was either that or the stuff that inflicts it just constantly re-inflicts the status (making curing it pointless), but I'm pretty sure it actually can't be cured outside of specific things.
[spoiler=quotes]
[9:00:50 PM] Randel Peltier: Ok...what did I do last night?
[9:01:19 PM] Kain: Something boring, repetitive, and lasted for about sixty seconds.
---
[10:45:08 AM] Salanewt: But yeah, the elemental phalluses are being... Stroked up by Saturos and co., and the energy will go towards... Mt. Muffin, where the Golden Climax will arise.
[7:28:42 PM] Salanewt: An added bonus is that Isaac and co. were trying to stop Saturos and co. because their beliefs state that Mt. Muffin should remain a virgin.
---
[9:54:21 PM] Randel Peltier: Guess the number in my head an you get to pick what I say. Number between 1-10
[9:54:28 PM] leaf: 11
[9:54:36 PM] Randel Peltier: @#$%!
---
[8:38:13 PM] Randel Peltier: Shes like this queen up on a pedastal that I have yet to court.
[8:38:29 PM] Kain: You've tried courting her.
[8:38:43 PM] leaf: and failed spectacularly
[8:38:44 PM] Randel Peltier: Ive tried...shes the best dating game ever.
---
[12:24:35 AM] Salanewt: I need to find a picture of a naked person to put on the Christmas tree next year.
---
[2:19:06 PM] Zeadra: wait... Rief's a guy???
---
[1:09:57 PM] Zeadra: well if you want to know if its a new effect or something weird, just check GS1, if side step is there maby it is the nimble dodge thing
[1:10:35 PM] Kioll: For once, you've contributed something useful.  o.O[/spoiler]

Salanewt

#575
I think you basically have djinn, sanctums, and death. I definitely agree with leaf as far as haunt goes though; activation rate would be a coin flip between its current 1/4 and a 1/3 (or even 1/5) rate for me, but it is definitely one of the better ailments in the series that is only really harmed by its low infliction rate.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Caledor

#576
@Healing Haunt: OFC i'll keep that in mind when deciding on the values. BTW, I've already considered the option of creating a single target Salt-like psynergy.

@Squirtle: Thank you very much for the addresses. As for Delusion, i think i'll manage somehow. ;)
About the other things to check, i just remembered two: if a mars revive animation exists/can be ported to GS1, and the basic rates for healing from ailments at each turn. Basically those (from gs2codedatalist):

Attack = 30%
Defense = 20%
Resistance = 20%
Delusion = 30%
Confuse = 60%
Charm = 70%
Stun = 20%
Sleep = 50%
Psy-seal = 30%


I was wondering why stun and sleep are basically identical but have different healing rates. Also it's confusing me cause the wiki states that Stun heals faster than Sleep, but from the numbers here looks like it's the opposite.

PS. 4 turn curse is in GS1 and will be found in the next release. Thanks Fox!

Salanewt

#577
The wiki is wrong on this one, since this stuff isn't really known about in detail aside from around these parts. It certainly wouldn't be the first time at any rate.

Healing Haunt: As long as it isn't an early-game ability and/or in an easily accessible class. Otherwise you run the risk of having it outshine pretty much every other healing ability when you get it.


Edit: Also, happy to help!
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Caledor

Quote from: Lord Squirtle on 10, December, 2015, 11:14:18 AM
Healing Haunt: As long as it isn't an early-game ability and/or in an easily accessible class. Otherwise you run the risk of having it outshine pretty much every other healing ability when you get it.
Yup, that's pretty much what i had in mind. The most likely scenario is that only dedicated healers will have it (Angel, Pure Mage and Guardian), and will replace both cure poison and restore at higher tiers, like Ragnarok -> Odissey

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

#579
QuoteI was wondering why stun and sleep are basically identical but have different healing rates. Also it's confusing me cause the wiki states that Stun heals faster than Sleep, but from the numbers here looks like it's the opposite.
Same healing rates in GS1 as well... when I checked the other day. (Yes, that was when I documented those functions in GS1 Doc.)
@GS2: Sleep and Stun are also for 7 turns each.... so they were wrong there, also. (I wonder if we're missing anything?)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)