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Is there anything you generally dislike about any GS game?

Started by Salanewt, 06, November, 2015, 10:24:24 PM

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Salanewt

Pretty much what the title says. For example, I honestly have to say that I really hate object shadows in the first two games. I mean, plain black circles suck when a lot of other things are actually a bit pretty to look at. I'll admit that battle shadows aren't too bad given how everything else in battle is distracting enough most of the time, but field shadows are the worst. It takes nothing to recolour them, but still. :|
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Any? I 'm sure Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is "Enough said!" for some people... But anyway... even with the main two games... there may be a number of things....

-What does everyone think of Piers? Should he have been on the first game, or removed altogether?
-Should GS2 have had more castles?
-And the usual... Should the story have went on/Basically, was it too short.
-Forced tutorials. (i.e. Flint/Echo tutorial.)
-Silent protagonist.

But anyway, I myself could extend some of the complaints to the GBA hardware itself... (Like do away with the OAM section, have that optionally done in RAM if still needed, have VRAM only contain pixel info for screen... nothing else... (Basically 1 layer/all layers flattened. That's 240*160*2 bytes) so also get rid of Palette section...) (@VRAM: Or, remove that section and have it in normal RAM to add additional ease... I/O could have a pointer to this section, in this case... But not so sure about that...) ; Much of that could have been I/O stuff... or dev coded... Basically everything that makes things a bit simpler to add-on/do stuff through any complex coding methods you may choose.... However, I can say the DS did make one good improvement by combining the two RAMs (WRAM and IRAM) into what is called Main Memory.

It would have been cool if there was a GBA-like system with such improvements, though... unfortunately... the DS kept with the VRAM complexity.... and having Extended Palettes and such.... And I have a feeling 3DS gets even worst...? (But I haven't looked at their VRAM formatting.)
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Salanewt

Oh yeah! In all honesty, I generally like silent protagonists to an extent. They work much better when they can act as a blank representation of the player though, which isn't the case in GS. The plot overall is okay, but there are so many points when characters would just ramble on about random stuff. There are also other points (many of them, in fact) where you could probably randomly assign their lines or remove their portraits and have almost no idea who is actually supposed to say them.

GBA hardware: Interesting... Basically making it so more can be left up to the developers themselves?
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

QuoteOh yeah! In all honesty, I generally like silent protagonists to an extent. They work much better when they can act as a blank representation of the player though, which isn't the case in GS. The plot overall is okay, but there are so many points when characters would just ramble on about random stuff. There are also other points (many of them, in fact) where you could probably randomly assign their lines or remove their portraits and have almost no idea who is actually supposed to say them.
Maybe both... but having to say "Yes" and "No" at times...  and other characters responding to you ...without ever knowing what your character said in verbatim..... (It'd seem weird if yes/no is the only thing you ever say.)... might seem strange.... For the most part... I think we can label it as controversial enough to put in the list...

@GBA hardware: Yeah... Pretty much....

Here's one randomly, quick theory... if we were going for a current gen console?
0x00000000 = BIOS
0x02000000 = Main RAM (32 MB?)
0x04000000 = I/O (Possibly including Video Output if not in Main RAM)
And ROM would probably not be memory mapped... data could be loaded via I/O... (If ROMs are 4 GB, there wouldn't be enough room to memory-map them, anyway... on a 32-bit address level.) - Unless maybe...There was a second "memory-map" specifically for the ROM alone.... and a way to select between these memory maps? (Perhaps alternate ldr/str instructions or something?) But thinking on that level would make me think that BIOS / Main RAM / I/O should be on separate memory maps as well. (Probably meaning three accessible ones, since directly accessing BIOS (Aside from swi commands) would be unnecessary.) Then again, if one bit is used for picking memory map... sticking to two could work:
Memory Map 1:
00000000 = I/O
80000000 = RAM
Memory Map 2:
00000000 = ROM
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

KyleRunner

Hmmm

1) Mia did not even tried to cure Dora when she was ill.
2) Isaac's party accepted to help Babi, even he being bad as the devil.
3) No Anemos.
4) Lame Lemuria.
5) "I'll fight enough for the both of us" line from Isaac in GS2 battle room.
6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Quote6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
That one. So I'll add another.

-GS1 and GS2 should have been in the same game. (?) Maybe. Especially since I don't think there were any lack of space issues.. (And even afterwards, there would still be plenty of ROM space available for a 3rd game...)

-Mt. Aleph was too small of a dungeon, and it's sad that there were no returning points to it.... You know like more hidden stuff to be found there or something. - Trickier puzzles so that it is more believable of Menardi/Saturos falling for the trap.  Well it is believable now... in a way... but still... The stars didn't feel very well guarded.
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Luna_blade

Okay. This topic was really bound to be made at some point.

I mostly dislike the low difficulty (mostly GS, though since I've played it a lot of times  and only GSTLA has a hard mode).
The lower difficulty also means less strategy (you never actually have to switch classes) for me.
GSTLA might had some issues with long dungeons.

Other than that I like both games.

GSDD however... IDK I haven't played it much. The beginning just felt like some nostalgia reference-fest.
I don't think GSDD has outragously bad gameplay, I think the story has not much to add to the other games.

Quote1) Mia did not even tried to cure Dora when she was ill.
Certainly weird.
Quote3) No Anemos.
This could have been done in the sequel/prequel.
Quote6) No returning to GS1 locations in GS2.
Yeah, that was kinda a big bummer.
Quote-What does everyone think of Piers? Should he have been on the first game, or removed altogether?
No I think he's fine in GSTLA. He's weird and we never get to know his age, but I didn't find that a bad thing.
It is actually weirder that they haven't put him in GSDD.
Quote-Should GS2 have had more castles?
Nah. Because of the cultural thing GS had, this turned out pretty good. ankara, medieval society. All other continents, mostly not-western societies.
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Rolina

That's because you haven't played it much.  There's a reason DD pissed the fandom off, and why for the most part I won't be taking it into consideration for my contrubution to the thread.


For me... The lazyness of the developers.  Look at the class system in the first game.  It's tailor made for Isaac's team.  Look at the class system in the second game.  It's tailor made for Isaac's team still... even though you're not playing as them for most of the game.  This led to two characters being virtual clones of their TBS counterparts, and for the other two characters have alt classes that completely change how you approach them.  Sure, Jenna's a Mage, but you set her up like a Warrior, didn't you?  Sure, Piers is a Warrior, but you sure didn't use him in that Alt-class run, did ya?  Then we get Dark Dawn, and still, pretty much every class is made with team Isaac in mind.  Heck, two thirds of the "new" classes are just old classes with small tweaks and different names.  That's right - only two classes that could actually be considered new.

Another thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks.  Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger.  Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD.  That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.

Luna_blade

Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AM
Another thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks.  Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger.  Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD.  That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.
Ha! Yes that exactly. I remember one of my first GS runs where everybody always attacked, except for Ivan sometimes.
The Dual-elemental classes have actually pretty good psynergy, in my opinion.
"Hear the sounds and melodies
Of rilets flowing down
They're the verlasting songs
Whispering all the time
As a warning that behind some rocks
There's a rigid grap even
Oreads fear the tread"

Johnstir

Ok, I'll contribute to this conversation.

-Felix's silence was OK when I was younger, but I honestly think he deserves a bit more personality then just "Why?" and "....!?" Chalk it up to being older and expecting more, I suppose.

-There was this one Island where I couldn't do ANYTHING to get a djnn. I think it was the one with the waterfall going DOWN the screen

-Doom Dragon's OPness.

I did like the class system though, it allowed for one to be quite the little tactician, even when in charge of a team of 4.

-Also didn't exactly like how I somehow managed to ignore Sheba for most of my life, which resulted in me never learning about her little "Destiny" thing.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Not sure if you knew, but "Why?" was a translation error... - So the existence of translation errors can surely be added to the list? (Although, not that much of a big deal as long as it's at least somewhat right.)
Also, getting stuck on one of the islands because you saved/reset passed the box that drops... bugs  like that... would be more deserving of being on the list....

Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

OpenGoldenSun

QuoteNo returning to GS1 locations in GS2.

This is up there as my biggest complaint. It is also the reason I chose Imil for my demo village. I loved the snow atmosphere personally, but I also wanted to do a demo based around Book 2 where the party visits towns in the first GS. So in terms of plot timeline it would be post party reunion and pre mars lighting.

Caledor

Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AM
For me... The lazyness of the developers.  Look at the class system in the first game.  It's tailor made for Isaac's team.  Look at the class system in the second game.  It's tailor made for Isaac's team still... even though you're not playing as them for most of the game.  This led to two characters being virtual clones of their TBS counterparts, and for the other two characters have alt classes that completely change how you approach them.  Sure, Jenna's a Mage, but you set her up like a Warrior, didn't you?  Sure, Piers is a Warrior, but you sure didn't use him in that Alt-class run, did ya?
This one, definitively. Above everything else.
The lack of a "magic power" stat is a close second, and after those 2, the uselessness of some status effects.

KyleRunner

Quote from: OpenGoldenSun on 10, November, 2015, 01:21:55 PM
QuoteNo returning to GS1 locations in GS2.

This is up there as my biggest complaint. It is also the reason I chose Imil for my demo village. I loved the snow atmosphere personally, but I also wanted to do a demo based around Book 2 where the party visits towns in the first GS. So in terms of plot timeline it would be post party reunion and pre mars lighting.

You're THE man to fix it! :)

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Yeah, so much could be done... He could do a remake with a bunch of extra good stuff and it'd be at least 2x better than the originals...

Oh yes, and having to go through dialogue to continue playing the game can also be annoying-ish if you don't like them. Push Start to make the characters get to the point, maybe?
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)

Rolina

Consider using the method Square enix uses - start to pause during the cutscene, then hit A to skip cutscene.  Have it bring up a dialogue to confirm the choice, and there you go.  That way it's there, but also can't be triggered accidently.

Aile~♥

— Lack of any sort of magic damage stat is up there. In GS1 it's somewhat made up for by the existence of a physical defence stat, which can lead to Psynergy actually dealing more damage than physical attacks. In GS2 and Dark Dawn, defence stats are universally too low.

— Piers. Just Piers in general. He shows relatively little personality, levels up stupidly slowly, has terrible stats in his base class, has mediocre base stats, and has very limited access to physical alt classes.

— Ridiculously low base activation rate of many status effects. With Luck having as much of an influence as it does and normal enemies dying in 1 to 2 turns anyway while bosses have such high Luck, a higher base activation rate would do a lot to make status effects more useful overall.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

I 100% with for the second and third points, though I only half agree with the first. There are the ePower/eResistance stats, and the idea behind having them rather than overall magic stats is pretty neat; the better you are in an element, the more powerful abilities of that element should be while also being able to resist those same spells yourself. Likewise, you'll do poorly with/against an element unless you equip some djinn or gear (or summon something) to make yourself better. The downside is that battles in general seem pretty lopsided towards the huge Attack and Agility growths that PCs gain, while enemies never gaining any useful stats or counters against them as you progress.

Plus, using a tier-4+ summon can easily cap your ePower if it's your base element (+100 to whatever element uses 4+ djinn and I think it lasts the whole battle, making gear that boosts it somewhat less useful). The base ePow/eRes stats even start off being or almost being literally halfway to their max totals.

Having higher defence stats and/or even some enemies that only take scratch damage from physical attacks in general would be a relatively minor fix to help make psynergy more useful, but a broader redistribution of stat growths and buffs would probably be better in the long run. At the very least so universal magic stats aren't needed as a quick fix. May not be to consider a very minor enemy scaling mechanic either, but that would have to be handled pretty carefully I think.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Rolina

Quote from: Rolina on 09, November, 2015, 08:12:50 AMAnother thing I don't like is the static/dynamic dichotomy present with spells and attacks.  Spells never grow in power, while every time you level up, get a new weapon, or hell, even get new armor sometimes, your ability to hit hard with the attack command gets bigger.  Add on the fact that the source of damage increasing for spells also increases the power of physical attacks, and you get the endgames of TLA and DD.  That is to say buffs and heals are the only spells ever used.
@Squirtle:  Actually, epower is @#$% tier for empowering spells, and boosts freaking physical attacks too.  Without legit stat support for psynergy, it'll never be as strong as they claim it is in game.  When a freaking wooden stick can outdamage Grand freaking Gaia, I don't wanna hear the Epower claims, especially with that lower power cap.

Daddy Poi's Oily Gorillas

Correct!

ePower boosts physical attacks as well... But I think it is by half as much...if I remember correctly...(i.e. Added Damage/Multiplier types...etc.) If your Relative Attack is around 0, then ePow-only spells could maybe be around ~x2 stronger, in that case? (Would prefer actually laying out some stats for confirmation, but anyway....) Edit again: If the enemy's defense is higher than your own attack... then could be something to think about... (Which was probably the purpose of this? - Almost want to test having Relative Attack being negative 2 times whatever power you set for the spell/attack. :P )
Edit again: And if you even catch up to the enemy's defense? Well! Give the enemy a Def UP status method/ability. (I know it isn't that simple, but I'm just saying it can take a lot of thinking....) I think I prefer creativity when not lazy... and maybe have different calculation methods as well... (Say like, there was one boss in RuneScape that's damage was based on how many fires you had out... and you own stats had no effect on them.)


Kind of the way I think of it: "Base Damage" means spell, and "Added Damage" means physical attack, I think....
Golden Sun Docs: Broken Seal - The Lost Age - Dark Dawn | Mario Sports Docs: Mario Golf & Mario Tennis | Misc. Docs
Refer to Yoshi's Lighthouse for any M&L hacking needs...

Sometimes I like to compare apples to oranges. (Figuratively) ... They are both fruits, but which one would you eat more? (If taken literally, I'd probably choose apples.)
Maybe it is over-analyzing, but it doesn't mean the information is useless.


The only GS Discord servers with significance are:
Golden Sun Hacking Community
GS Speedrunning
/r/Golden Sun
GS United Nations
Temple of Kraden

Can you believe how small the Golden Sun Community is?

2+2=5 Don't believe me? Those are rounded decimal numbers. Take that, flat earth theorists! :)