Plot holes

[zman9000]

my guess is that in GSDD the world isn't fixing its self but destroying its self dew to the sudden shock of power from the golden sun.

And the black holes are to try and fix that...

the saying is "to much of a good thing is bad"

I mean there is three levels to the Ocean!!
And the highest level is where the golden sun is, and also where the big black hole is....

(And if you go with "the world is alive thing" then you could say the world is in a feeding freinzy and then pukeing its guts out... every 10 years...)

[Rolina]

I'm ever asking why they removed the old GS1 world in Golden Sun TLA... In Dark Dawn they removed the GS2 world instead lol, and with that "Walking Forward With Determination" music it makes more exciting

What are you talking about?  The land in Dark Dawn is only what you saw Pre-Karagol Sea in TBS, only with a lot more detail.  So it's not just the GS2 world, it's that and half of the GS1 world as well.  However, the amount of detail they put into it made it feel as big as the GS1 overworld at times.  I'm actually excited to see the rest of the world fleshed out with greater detail and with more places and towns.  For example, Ayuthay was around in the first game, but your party was too concerned about getting through the Lamakan Desert alive to bother trekking south to find it.  To be able to see a lot of these towns and their histories from the previous games?

I'm all for it, personally.  I just hope that we see someone actually MAD at the adepts for unleashing alchemy.  Just being implied, but then everywhere you go "hey, it's the hero guys!  Let's try to be cool adepts like them!".  REALLY?  You make a big deal about the strife against adepts in the world, but everywhere I go Adepts are the coolest thing since sliced bread!  THAT is something I want to see addressed.

[zman9000]

I mean there is three levels to the Ocean!!
And the highest level is where the golden sun is, and also where the big black hole is....

I restate my point.

Role's quote.

but everywhere I go Adepts are the coolest thing since sliced bread!

I GSDD you don't leave the upper level of the world. And people are still better off then before.

But I bet the rest or the world is differen't.

Can't wait for GS 4!

[Rolina]

No, that's the world recrafting itself.

Some places in the ocean are supposed to be deeper than others.  Some lands at higher elevations.  The wreck caused by stagnation is suddenly being fixed, sharply and drastically, as though peroxide was just poured on the deep gashes in the world.  It's gonna hurt, ALOT, but in the end balance will be restored to the world.

As far as the tiered waters are concerned, they're probably filling up.  Won't be long before crossbone isle is but an underwater area.

[Salanewt]

Actually, Ayuthay never existed in the first Golden Sun. If you look to the left of Champa in both maps, you will notice a new peninsula in Dark Dawn. Ayuthay is actually on that new peninsula. Lamakan Desert is beside the area near Kalay, which has barely changed aside from deforestation. However, Champa was pretty much pulled far towards the east from where it once stood. Come to think of it, it looks like Angara grew nearly twice in size to be able to fit almost all of the central/southern areas (which explains the increase in detail).


So from this information, we can deduct that the oceans have probably gone down in size because of the massive expanding that the continents have done.

[Aile~♥]

Ayuthay had to have existed, considering its' supposed long history. After all, they're descendents of a tribe of ancients from before Alchemy was sealed in the first place!

[Rolina]

Actually, Ayuthay never existed in the first Golden Sun. If you look to the left of Champa in both maps, you will notice a new peninsula in Dark Dawn. Ayuthay is actually on that new peninsula. Lamakan Desert is beside the area near Kalay, which has barely changed aside from deforestation. However, Champa was pretty much pulled far towards the east from where it once stood. Come to think of it, it looks like Angara grew nearly twice in size to be able to fit almost all of the central/southern areas (which explains the increase in detail).


So from this information, we can deduct that the oceans have probably gone down in size because of the massive expanding that the continents have done.

I love how you believe that the TLA and TBS maps actually showed everything that was there.  Has it occurred to you that only places relevant to the plot or sidequests are shown?  Hell, most of the TBS towns weren't in TLA at all.  Apparently, they just stopped existing, since you're totally right in that Ayuthay couldn't have existed before Dark Dawn.

You know, despite the fact that it blatantly says it did, as Jamie pointed out.

[Salanewt]

I would understand the possibility of Ayuthay's existence if there were even just a tiny peninsula on southern Angara, but there isn't one there until Dark Dawn. Of course, the sea levels could have gone down since the events of the second game, and that would explain why the continents have grown in size. However, like all of the other new dungeons to have come out of nowhere, it technically did not exist on land in the time period of the first two games. While many of these places could have existed before, they were not likely shown because they were either underground or on the seafloor.

Of course, I could be as wrong about this whole thing as others were wrong about the likelihood of light and dark adepts.

Jamie: That is true, though I realize that I may have used a poor choice of wording. I was trying to say that the peninsula that it is on was not in the first games, and was therefore non-existent in the first two games. However, given the nature of the oceans, it is likely that the water went down enough to bring it back into the world above the sea. As for the people who live there, it is quite possible that they came from previously existing areas to explore for treasure; which might have given them their information. That would also explain why much of that area consists of desert-like landscapes for a part of the game too.

Role: I am not trying to pick a fight here, I am just making some observations. However, it is not just an increase in detail overall - I mean, Kalay and the Lamakan Desert were left in the same positions by Camelot. However, many other things were left in their positions as well, and now we have new mountains and stuff.


Hang on, why am I even debating anything? I just tried to talk about my input in this topic, some of which was rejected before I could explain my part more, and it has suddenly become a debate? I really have to stop talking in these topics...

[leaf]

The golden sun happens. Things get shifted around. A town that existed further inland is now on a peninsula that didn't exist before.

There. Now everyone can be happy.

[Salanewt]

... actually, I like it. Thanks leaf!

Edit: I am wondering if we managed to get off of the topic a while ago, since this topic is for discussing plot holes.

[luluthefirst]

Dunno what is that, and how can the Peninsula can forward over there? Maybe it goes to the top of this isle? Is that Indra going to be moved by the earthquake?

Aslo did you seen this near the Altmiller cave?



------------------GS1-----------------------------------------GS2

[zman9000]

I think this just means bad planning...

[Rolina]

The golden sun happens. Things get shifted around. A town that existed further inland is now on a peninsula that didn't exist before.

There. Now everyone can be happy.

This is actually the official answer.  Look at what happened to Kolima - it got moved halfway across the continent, and replaced a freaking swap.

[zman9000]

well that is explained some what in GSDD.

but how do you explain the fact that something that you were ment to see in GS 1 got deleted and changed In Golden sun TLA?!

I call bad planning... mostly because they started working on the project to be one game but it was to long and had to make it two.

But then.... WHY IS THE place where the Jupiter Light house moved farther away when Ivan's father (Can't remebr his name) talked about it being a place where he got lost when wandering around trying to find work. he diddn't have a boat! A storm came and he was rescued by A GROUP of wind adapts and then taken and given some advice.

You guys call it a plot hole.
Role calls it A plot device.

Well I call Shenanigans!

[luluthefirst]

Do you know where to download Golden Sun source code ? I remember I got it but I've lost it... It was from Golden Sun Hacking or somethings

[Salanewt]

zman: Hammet? That is/was actually Ivan's master, not father. Hey, I bet Ivan is the leader of Kalay now... anyway, perhaps the quake from Venus sent it further? The actual changes to Angara might have been poor planning, but it even shows the world on the map that way. It could also be possible that the overworld takes the shape of the map, and the world is only detailed the way that Isaac and co. look at it. That could very easily be a plot device, as Isaac and co. are not actually supposed to go to the places that are incorrect on the map.

[zman9000]

I know he is not his father! I just was forgetting his name and... Rember when Hammet said "Ivan I have always thought of you as a son" or something like that...

[Salanewt]

Yeah, but the technical term would not quite be father. I mean, I have had friends in the past who have considered me to be like a sibling of theirs, but that does not actually make it so. Anyway, it is possible that he wandered around certain parts of the world in a boat when he lost his way.

Lulu: What do you mean by source code, ROM? I am a bit confused by your request. Still though, I am not sure if it belongs in here.

[luluthefirst]

I remember it was an open-source clone of golden sun, because I saw GPL License v3 on top of every files

According to the worldmap:
http://www.goldensunhacking.net/downloads/TLA_WorldMap.gif

Why did they left the Crossbone Isle to the top left?

[zman9000]

umm your link failed....