A present for Sala

[Rolina]

I thought up an idea.

A Mario Bros themed hack of GS.

Now, using the elements established in SMRPG, and the characters from NSMBWii...

The elements are:

Jump, Fire, Ice, Shock

You don't have djinn, you have powerup sets.  They are:

Propeller Shroom (Jump)
Fire Flower (Fire)
Ice Flower (Ice)
Thunder Flower (Shock)

These determine your class, and ultimately, what skills you use.

Innate elements are:

Mario:  Fire
Luigi: Jump
Blue Toad:  Ice
Yellow Toad:  Shock

"But Role, what about 1 Ups and Super Mushrooms?!"

1 Ups replace the Water of Life.  Mushrooms, Super Mushrooms, and Mega Mushrooms are recovery items.

"What about stuff like the Tanooki Suit and Penguin Suit?"

What do you expect to use as armor?  Those are artifacts, totally.  Tanooki boosts Jump affinity, Penguin boosts Ice.  Also, where's your love for the Hammer Bros suit?  It was the best of all of them, you know!

"And Yoshi?"

Yoshi is your transport.  You can move faster on land with Yoshi while riding him.  Blue Yoshi is used to traverse water.  Or something.  Basically, Yoshis are Yoshis, and do what Yoshis do best!~

"Enemies?  Not Vermin, right?"

...Goombas?  Hello, it's a Mario hack.  Hell, just go look at Mario RPG!  Or heck, even paper mario!  There's your basic for foes!  And many, many, MANY game mechanics and thematics...

So... Sala... Wanna add on to this?  I thought it up randomly over in ToK, and guess it made me come back here.  Guess I'll be more active here, huh?

[Salanewt]

 

I love this idea, and will definitely add on to it. Not fully sure if we should have two Toads though. Also, Yoshis for transport will be fine, as long as they are pretty much the main mode of transport (other than walking of course).

If this is for the Lost Age, then we could probably include another team of people, though an idea for a full team currently eludes me. I do have an idea for how we could include Peach, except that she does not really have an element affiliation, so it would be hard to include her.

Propeller Shroom (Jump)
Fire Flower (Fire)
Ice Flower (Ice)
Thunder Flower (Shock)

This is good, but instead of Thunder Flower, we could use the Volt Shroom from Paper Mario. Alternatively, we could also use common enemies to take these roles, but then it might feel slightly less like a Mario game, so... I like using items for this. As for a battle system, I agree that we could use mechanics from the other Mario RPG games. We should try to stay away from the Mario and Luigi games for battle system though, since it is possible to never take any damage during battle (time jumps and countering are in it).

Anyway, thanks for coming up with this idea, since I really like it. I will definitely add more to it in the future when I have more ideas.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

There's a Volt Shroom?  Perfect!  Okay, let's do that, then!

Also, no need for two parties.  One is enough.  I mean, just because we have space for it, doesn't mean we have to use it, you know?  And if you want, we can swap out Blue Toad for Geno, and Yellow Toad for Mallow...

Peach is the damsel in distress, of course.  The goal is to save her.  And Bowser's the big bad.  And of course, you'll have to take out every last Koopaling!

Now, how do you battle items?  Well, you don't, of course!  No, they'll be guarded by Hammer Bros, Fire Bros, Ice Bros... you know, the appropriate elemental bro doods.


Also, this is a golden sun hack.  Meaning, Golden Sun's battle system.  Modified, of course, to be a bit more balanced.

Anywho, I thought this up as a comparative example for a game that uses merely the system of a game, but abandons pretty much everything else.  But the scenario?  A Mario game in every truest since, using the Golden Sun engine?  Naturally, I thought of you.  I mean, you've been wanting to do this from the get go, right?  Story, characters, thematics, all different.  It's not djinn, it's power ups!  There's no elemental stars or mention of Weyard, this is the Mushroom Kingdom, and we've got Koopa King's shell to kick!  It's basically using the Golden Sun engine to make a totally different game.  We could use the community hack to show an example of how to make a GS based game with the system, but this game to show that we can make a drastically different game, too.

Now, instead of Treasure Chests, we'd have the ? blocks, of course.  We'd need a treasure opening animation, though.  A jump, of course.  And we'd need to mark that these are in the air... so there's gonna be a shadow to notate where to jump.  You know, because floating things casts shadows.  For "element bros" you fight, if it's on the world map, they'll drop the item after battle, so it'll be an automatic obtain.

If we use Geno and Mallow... that means Mario and Luigi are the fighters, and Geno and Mallow are the mage-types.  At least, in their base classes.  I don't want to have 'fighter' and 'mage' elements, per se, though.  So instead, mixing different items has effects independent of who's naturally what element.  So you can make Mario a mage if you want, and Geno a fighter.  You just have to give them the right combo of powerups!

Your thoughts so far?

[Atrius (He/Him)]

The original Mario RPG graphical style may even blend fairly well with Golden Sun's if you wanted to base it off of that, and use Mallow & Geno.  It's only unfortunate that the battle sprites only face one direction, and it's kinda at an awkward overhead angle for GS's battle system.

[Rolina]

That's what artists are for.  But I was thinking that either that, or maybe a paper mario-esque style would do well.  Also, aren't the battle sprites just... normal sprites, until they move to attack?  We'd have to lower the angle anyways, so... we should have at least 4 directions for all three characters... save for luigi.

[Salanewt]

For Super Mario RPG, I think that is how the sprites are. For Paper Mario, I do not think they are (well, they are two separate sets of sprites). For the Mario and Luigi games, both battle and overworld use different sprites about 95% of the time (during tutorials, overworld sprites might be used to change angles or if there are NPCs present, but that is about it).

Hammer Bro. variants? Sounds good, but I have a slight addition to your idea (though I think you already thought of this).

Hammer Bro. = Earth/Venus/Jump
Fire Bro. = Fire/Mars
Ice Bro. = Water/Mercury/Ice
Boomerang Bro = Wind/Jupiter/Shock

We could probably use Piranha Plants at times if we really wanted to (so one does not always expect a Bro.), but we would me missing a Jump type (some can spit Fireballs, some can spew Ice breath, and there is a variant from Superstar Saga that can spit Shockballs).

Also, Geno and Mallow would be perfect, and I could work on battle sprites, as well as portraits. First though, I want to get stuff for Yoshi in Superstar Saga out of the way, then I would like to work on Yoshi stuff for Golden Sun (using some of the Superstar Saga overworld stuff that I would have finished). As for battle system, what I had meant before was to adopt minor things, but still stick with the Golden Sun system. Had little time this morning, since I had to get ready for school, so I summarized it too quickly.

Blocks with shadows? I could try to search for what happens in Superstar Saga, since that game has the blocks with the shadows you described (better graphics are needed though). I can copy and edit those blocks tonight when I finish my work, then post them somewhere here (I even have some Mario cameo blocks to work with, so I will post each of them).

I would like to try to give as many ideas for this as possible, so you can expect many more ideas from me in the future.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Heh, you and me had the same idea there!

Piranha Plants... Sound like Mad Plants to me!  Or would that be a Smalix?


GS can do floating objects with shadows, GS1 showed this with the invisi-platform, for example.  We just need to make sure they can jump!

Don't try to match an art style yet, we've not settled on one.  I'll let you come up with the sprites, and we'll take that art direction from there, flesh it out into the world, etc...

Now for weapons, we need a set of melee weapons.  Which means Geno's gonna be a pain.  I do know that Geno will have Finger Shot in his base class, which will become Arm Canon.  It'll be an EPA for him, I figure.  But for the others...

Mario:  Gloves, Hammers, something else w/geno
Luigi:  Gloves, Cymbals, Hammers
Mallow:  Gloves, Sticks, Cymbals
Geno:  Gloves (might as well...), Sticks, something else/mario...

I figure everyone can use gloves, then two use sticks, two use Cymbals, two use something else, and Mario and Luigi share another weapon.

Mallow and Geno share Sticks, Mallow and Luigi share Cymbols, Geno and Mario share something, and the Bros share hammers (of course!)

I figure you'd be able to figure out the other two weapon types better than me, though.  Only Mario RPG I've played is... well, Super Mario RPG... I've had a grudge against Paper Mario ever since it replaced SMRPG2, and I've not gotten a hold of the first superstar saga game (won't play the others out of order!).  Got some ideas?

[Aile~♥]

Ooh! An awesome idea!

What we really need is something with multiple chapters or something, so at first it seems that the Koopa King is the big bad, but then somebody pulls an X-Nauts, and then maybe someone else pulls an X-Nauts on the previous X-Nauts?

I think the absolute hardest part of this will be allowing characters to jump, honestly.

[Insularity]

So basically... it's a Mario Game with the GS engine? I love it!

Well, there are a couple of things I might add, but keep in mind I've only ever played Superstar Saga and Partners in Time.

Mimics could easily become Thwomps, building up on the "?" block idea.

There could be a bit of a problem with the puzzle like dungeons, as a whole new series of sprites would be made, and, seeing a jump element, one would likely wonder- "Why don't I just jump onto the pillar?"

Well, here are my two cents on utility psynergies:

Reveal:Torch (Fire)

I can't see much allocation for a reveal psynerg, other than causing the surrounding dark and using a "Torch " psynergy as a light and giving the surroundings a redd hue. I think it's possible.

Whirlwind: Burn (Fire)

Simple. You burn grass instead of blowing it away, as we have no wind element. Unless I'm mistaken. Which is quite likely.

Hand Set Psynergies (Move, Catch, Lift, etc): Variety of Names (Jump)

A Luigi sprite, or whoever, replaces the hand image and jumps to the object, doing whatever the psynergy normally does.

Naturally, some can be kept like Frost or Burst, but yeah, most of them won't make much sense.

[Aile~♥]

Whirlwind could also easily become Wither (Ice): Instead of blowing grass away, you expose it to cold temperatures causing it to wither and die.

Why don't you jump to the pillar? Easy: Make it too tall. Maybe the characters have high enough jump to get on top of a Carry block, but not anything taller, so you'd have a LOT more jump-based puzzles. And a lot more spikes like in GS1.

Maybe include a cameo of Echo the Djinni if you look in just the right place? Maybe he promises not to eat your chips, but Mario doesn't trust him? (I'm honestly surprised that the "I promise I'm not going to eat your chips or anything!" line hasn't become a Meme. Especially considering it's pretty much a blatant example of Breaking the Fourth Wall.)

And are Hammer-based "psys" going to be Jump or non-elemental?

And are we going to scrap the whole "silent protagonist" thing and let Mario and Luigi talk?

And maybe after/if Bowser turns out to not be the true bad guy, he (along with some friendlies I guess) plays as the second party in the game? Kind of like the Bowser sections in Paper Mario: TTYD?

What if the Koopalings rebel against Bowser and try to take over the world themselves or something, so Mario and Bowser end up both trying to take them down without teaming up?

[Salanewt]

Before I reply to your posts, I will add one or two notes...

We actually do have a jumping Piranha Plant, from Super Mario World. It would jump out of a pipe before landing back in. Some would even spit two fireballs, so we could use this variant for the Jump Piranha Plant.

Don't worry, I am not going for an art style (in fact, I would rather avoid using them (especially Superstar Saga), since I prefer the graphics in Golden Sun (we could alter it if we want). One thing that did help make Superstar Saga successful was not only its similarity to the other Mario RPGs (more specifically Paper Mario), but also for some of its mild humour (eg. Luigi in a dress).

As for floating objects, Superstar Saga (and the other Mario and Luigi games) also have something similar, and they even create chadows (except that this also happens for NPCs and any other sprite based object if they are not on the ground, unless a script is unactive (no idea which one though, but it seems to be assigned to an object on the map)).

Oh yeah, "non-elemental" should become "other", so we can include abilities related to elements not used [often] by the protagonists, like Earth (Monty Mole could use something like 'Rock Throw', or 'Dig').

Jamie:

Interesting ideas about antagonist confusion, but I doubt it should be done with Koopalings (though maybe from a different angle, like Baby Bowser vs. Bowser?). We could make Luigi talk, but it might be a bit odd for one game to have Mario able to talk. Luigi is fine though, since he can speak in some games, and ends up doing so in at least three of the Mario RPGs (Paper Mario 1+2, and Superstar Saga (he never talks unless he is disguised as Peach though... ... ...)). Bowser not being the final boss seems like an idea, since almost every other Mario RPG does this. However, who would we have as our villain? Every Mario RPG game has had an original antagonist (except for Paper Mario 1, which did have Bowser (he had the Star Rod)).

Insularity:

Torch; I like this idea, but I also seem to remember Luigi having a flashlight. We could make it a bestowable item for a move which illuminates areas.

Burn; This works. What we could probably do as an alternative is to have a second type of Fire Flower (difference between Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros., for example). The other one could act like an item to be used either inside or outside of battle (I forget, can items also be used outside of battle for their effects, besides healing items?).

Hand Set; Naturally, but renamed. We should however try to make it so all characters have the same animations, just in case we want the same animations for a cutscene, or even to change who can be seen on the overworld.

Also, I have another idea... If we do only have one team, the sprites for the missing 4 could also have all 8 directions, so they can be used as really important characters (like Peach or Yoshi, for example).

Have a nice day.

[Aile~♥]

Now the question is what weapon should Mario share with Geno?

Maybe a Tennis Racket or Home-Run Bat? (lol Mario Tennis/Mario Baseball references)

[Salanewt]

No idea for a new weapon, but I do have one or two other ideas, which I could not say before due to how long the post was (and screen twitchiness). Also, not even sure of Geno can use a bat or racket, since his weapons normally consist of gun-like equipment, which seem to be attached to his hand.

How about we include Shoes and Badges? Shoes would act like Gloves when wearing them (but as boots obviously), while Badges would be like Undergarments (or something so only one can be work at a time). I will go into detail with my Badge ideas later, but a part of them would be based off of Superstar Saga and Partners in Time (Bowser's Inside Story used them differently).

I have an idea for Yoshi's Island, even for including a mini-game. However, I would prefer to wait for now before giving too many ideas about it (one of them involves allowing Mario and co. to ride a Yoshi in the area though).

Have a nice day.

[Aile~♥]

Another idea: In keeping with Mario RPG tradition, perhaps it would be possible to add Team Attack moves?

For example maybe a Glove that bestows an ability that damages the enemy and increase Attack for all other Glove wielders on the field?

Basically, what I'm getting at here is that all weapons would bestow a "combo" skill that gives some sort of bonus to all other wielders of that weapon type on the field.

Gloves would provide all manner of effects, but have weaker combos because everyone could wear gloves at the same time.

Hammers would focus on Attack and Crit boosts.

Cymbals could focus on restoration effects (HP/FP (Flower Power, replaces PP) restoration) or offensive status bestowing if possible (basically, gives allies a chance to inflict an offensive status when they attack)

Sticks would focus on Mage-type combos (boosts to EP and ER, etc.).

Whatever is shared between Mario and Geno would be defensive maybe?

For the Hand Psynergies, maybe use Stuffwell? I mean, come on, a little guy who goes off to help do stuff, he'd fit perfectly!

...This would make Geno Ice, wouldn't it? I haven't played Super Mario RPG, but I always thought Geno would be better as Shock elemental. Then again, I have no idea who Mallow is.

[Salanewt]

I like some of those ideas, but not every weapon should bestow a combo (in fact, we should limit it to a few weapons at most for unlocking combos).

Stuffwell... The suitcase from Partners in Time? Well, I suppose we could try to add a script to the game that makes each character only able to carry 10 or so items until he joins you.

Oh yeah, slightly new idea. This weapon would be an extremely rare artefact, but can be used by any party member. The Star Rod! Of course, it would be hard to get to make up for how powerful it could be. The only question is how we could implement it without making it too broken, as well as making it difficult to get (I am thinking Dullahan style, but multiplied). Alternatively, we could edit how the code system works. You beat the game, which gives you a code you could use, and you get access to new items next time you start a new file (that is, if you copy the code).

Well, I think I will start working on getting some of my custom Superstar Saga sprites done (since we can edit some of the sprites), and then I will work on sprites which could be used for Golden Sun, in Golden Sun style (which reminds me, maybe I want to add portraits in Superstar Saga if we ever find out how).

Have a nice day.

[Aile~♥]

No, I was talking about using Stuffwell for the Hand Psys like Move and Catch and whatnot. We'd probably need something else for Carry though.

I honestly think at least most weapons should bestow a combo ability of some sort.

[Salanewt]

Odd idea. Suitcase acting as psynergy? It has potential, but it seems a bit too much for a suitcase to do, when Mallow could probably move something with his storm power, which reminds me...

Gust = Move?

If you explain your reasoning for weapons, then I am more likely to agree, or come up with a more reasonable response. I agree that at least half of the artefacts could bestow a regular ability, but you should explain for combo abilities.

Have a nice day.

[Aile~♥]

For Combos, I want to do something similar to the Bros. Attacks in Superstar Saga, but available for any characters, since we have a four-character party. However, Bros. Attacks would be rather difficult to do, so this is my substitution.

I figure Stuffwell could easily grab an apple off a tree (catch) or flick a switch in a location the main party can't get at it (Force), due to being smaller and more agile.

[Salanewt]

That could work. As for combo, what I would have in mind something similar to the effect that one of the djinn has, I think a Jupiter? It can allow two people to attack at once. Anyway, when possible, we could try to implement other abilities to work like this if we want (I think?). I will have to do some research on it when we can edit Djinni.

Also, I have a Yoshi portrait ready, and will upload it soon. I have a feeling that we should have a different portrait for each Yoshi (or at least different colours), but this should work for now. Please keep in mind that it is still a work in progress, and I will likely update it a bit more in the future (I made it as close to Golden Sun style as I could). I would start a new topic for Mario based sprites, but I do not have enough for a topic. As for overworld sprites, I will end up basing them on what I have for Superstar Saga (well, at least for my Golden Sun hack which brings the worlds of Nintendo together), since Yoshi's Palette will be compatible, and has a nice selection of colours.



So, does anyone like my Yoshi portrait? I am going to work on more Yoshi stuff for Golden Sun, but I would not mind having different head angles for different Yoshis (does not matter, but I might as well to make them seem a bit different).

Have a nice day.

Edit: Notice how similar it is to my avatar?

[Atrius (He/Him)]

It looks pretty good for the most part, although you're not making the best use of the limited palette space.  I count 7 colors used for the red 'spikes' on the back of his head.  That's nearly half the palette used on something that makes up only around 10% of the portrait.  I recommend cutting back on the amount of colors used there so that you can add more shades of green and white to smooth out the more important parts of his face.

Also as far as overworld sprites for him go, depending on the graphical style you finally decide on I can get you his sprites from Mario Golf for GBA which greatly resemble GS style.