Fire emblem:(working title)

[Salanewt]

My character is done! I think I will be a red Yoshi this time (as this is self-insertion, right?).

Character's Name: Salanewt
Forum Member: Salanewt
Character's Class: Yoshi (promotes to DracoYoshi)
Character's affinity: Anima

[spoiler=Stats]
LV. 3
HP. 14
MAG: 16
STK: 5
AGG: 18
GRD: 7
RES: 12
LUCK: 4

Growths: HP 45% Mag 65% Stk 20% Agg 70% Luck 35% GRD 20% Res 55%
[/spoiler]

Weapon Levels: Anima (E), can use Light after class-up.

Starting Inventory:

Eggstone (only usable when DracoYoshi, has Manakete effect (transformation during battle)). Perhaps not supereffective against anything, just a bit weaker than the Dragonstone. Maybe 10/10 uses left (a strong optional boss might be able to drop more, as long as you accept this character idea).
Vulnerary (3/3)

Background/personality/synopsis: One day, this young Yoshi was walking throughout Yoshi's Island, when a bright portal opened up. He was about to inform the others of the portal, when a Fire Bro started attacking him. With his injuries, he ran through the portal to escape the fireballs. The Yoshi was about to enter the porta for a second time, however, when it vanished right in front of his eyes. Bewildered, he started wandering before he found a small pendant. He noticed that with the pendant, he could recreate the portal and return to Yoshi's Island. However, he noticed some bandits looting a nearby village and decided to help. When the last bandit was defeated, the town's mayor rewarded him with the mysterious Eggstone, the only artifact that was not taken in earlier raids. The townspeople told him about the war, and that they were in danger of being slain by the corrupt royalty. He decided that he would take on the name of Salanewt and help fight the evil.

R-Button Info: A Yoshi from Yoshi's Island, he loves a tasty watermelon.
Death Quote: (I... I am sorry. I have to go back to my island now...)
(Explanation, which is not a part of the quote: The story is that he teleports instead of dies if he gets too weak)

Portrait: Red Yoshi, wearing a pendant with a small egg symbol on it.

So, how do I sound? Lol, if I can not insert myself as a character, then I can easily change the name. Am I missing anything?

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Lances and scythes DO exist in Golden Sun - every soldier holds a lance, and two of the most prominent antagonists hold scythes.  How many times have I said this now?  Not just in this thread, either.  I've pointed out the precedent time and time again, and yet NOBODY seems to listen.  It's getting annoying, guys.

@Kain:  AHA!  You're NOT listening!  It makes no sense in Fire Emblem, but what I've been telling you time and time again is that this is a GOLDEN SUN GAME using FIRE EMBLEM MECHANICS.  It makes PERFECT SENSE for a Golden Sun character to cast spells without a spellbook.  THUS, MY MAGIC TRIANGLE.


Look, guys, this is what I know about Fire Emblem.  This is where all of my ideas stem from - applying GS rules and lore to the few FE mechanics I know.

There's five physical weapons in fire emblem.  Three are in a triangle, two are not.

Swords, Axes, and Lances exist in a triangular relationship.  Swords beat Axes, Axes beat Lances, Lances beat Swords.  All three have precedent in GS, as I've already pointed out.
Daggers exist outside the triangle.  I don't know the specifics about them, but I know they're there.  I figure Light Blades would work here in a GS hack.
Bows exist outside the triangle.  They're Anti-melee - you cannot attack physically with them.  We really don't have precedent in GS with them, but we also don't have a reason not to include them, since in FE you're either one thing OR another.

FE has three magic types:

Dark, Light, and Anima.  They have a triangular relationship.  This relashionship is usable in a GS hack and fits with the thematics, so long as we REVERSE it.  Biggest problem we'd run into?  Dark and Light aren't elements in GS.  These would be adepts wielding seals and the pure essence of alchemy instead, which is stretching it QUITE a bit.  But it makes it doable.

Anima has its own triangle.  Fire, Lightning, and Wind, iirc.  I don't remember what beats what, but that's irrelevant - that won't work AT ALL in a GS hack.  In GS, lightning and wind are the same element, and you'd need four of them.  I made a suggestion about how we could do it, but... again, it's stretching things a bit.

GS does not have spellbooks in it.  FE does.  However, GS DOES have weapons typically attributed to mages - what we could do is have them be 'unleash types' instead that go off of the Magic Stat.  But it's gotta be done in a way that makes sense.  Thus, I suggested we change healing from staffs to Ankhs to go with symbolism, ans sticking with symbolism, Scythes are attributed to darker themes, maces to light ones, and staffs get the elemental themes.

If you cannot comprehend playing FE without magic books, stop playing FE in your mind for a second.  First, realize that we're trying to make this a GOLDEN SUN GAME.  In golden sun, mages DO have weapons.  In an FE hack of golden sun, we CHANGE HOW THOSE WEAPONS WORK.  Mages don't attack physically.  They cast spells.  So simply make those weapons unleash those spells.  A scythe user could hold up their scythe, causing the dark spell above them to form.  Then they slash the scythe in place (read:  THEY DON'T ATTACK WITH IT, they just make a slashing motion.  Ragnarok in GS does this with Isaac, for example) and the spell sends itself to the enemy.  Maces would work similarly with light.  Anima would look more traditional with its spells, and they'd move forward their hand, which would call the spell down.

So why do it?  Because the only thing that could be a spellbook in GS fits with a DIFFERENT FE mechanic.

What I know about classes:

There's three types of classes:  Training, Basic, Advanced.

Training is a rare class, not many people have it on the battle field.  It's got a max level of 10.
Basic is what most new characters are.  It's got a a max level of 20.
By using an emblem at a certain level, a basic unit can become an advanced unit.  It has a max level of twenty.
At changing class, the unit 'levels up' from level 10/20 to level 1 of the new class.

For the advanced classes, many base classes share advanced classes, but usually have one or two exclusive to them.  However, compared to GS, the classes are much more limited in selection.

This is why I said have the class in GS be based on base classes.  Each element could have one melee and one magic version, to keep things simple.  The advanced classes would be based on the top tier of the base class for the exclusive, and use Hybrid, Tri-hybrid, and/or Triple element classes for the advanced classes they share (Choas Lord, Ronin, and Master for example).  They'd require not djinn, but emblem thingies so as to keep with fire emblem.  For example, a Ninja's Scroll or something could be used on a Level 20 Squire or Guard to have them become a Master - a Bushido Code could make them become a Ronin instead, though.

How training becomes basic, I have no idea.  I donno how we'd even handle training classes in a GS hack.  Maybe we could make up Tier 0 classes for that purpose...

Alternatively, tier 1 classes could be training, and Tier 2 would be the Basic.

Laguz... are apparently lycans of some kind.  They can fit into GS, but... y'all'd have to come up with how.

That is pretty much all I know.  I have taken what little FE knowledge I know and applied Golden Sun to it.  Basicaly, you're playing a GOLDEN SUN GAME this way, but it uses FE mechanics.  That's why Mages have weapon-types, and are using them NOT like warriors, but like mages.  I didn't suggest hybrid classes because to my knowledge, there is no such thing in FE - you either use a weapon, OR you use a spell.  You cannot use both at once.  Even if you're capable of using both in your class, when you fight, you have to use one OR the other - you cannot attack with multiple weapons at once.

[leaf]

Lances and scythes DO exist in Golden Sun - every soldier holds a lance, and two of the most prominent antagonists hold scythes.  How many times have I said this now?  Not just in this thread, either.  I've pointed out the precedent time and time again, and yet NOBODY seems to listen.  It's getting annoying, guys.

We heard you the last 135413854328425842543284768 times. We don't care. You repeating the same thing over and over again is getting annoying, too. It's not that we need clarification. It's that you believe there's only one way to do things - yours. I'm not just talking about this, either; I'm talking in general, and it's getting very tiring. We're trying to come up with other ways to make this work that in our minds tie in closer to GS than what you're suggesting. Not everyone thinks like you do, and someone disagreeing with you does not necessarily mean they don't understand; they may just plain not like the idea. As it is, all you're doing is prematurely killing other ideas by not letting them develop.

@Kain:  AHA!  You're NOT listening!  It makes no sense in Fire Emblem, but what I've been telling you time and time again is that this is a GOLDEN SUN GAME using FIRE EMBLEM MECHANICS.  It makes PERFECT SENSE for a Golden Sun character to cast spells without a spellbook.  THUS, MY MAGIC TRIANGLE.

Sure, it makes sense for a GS char to cast without a spellbook. It doesn't make sense for them to cast for free, though. Either way, you're discarding a pretty major FE mechanic here, making it less about hacking GS themes into FE mechanics and more about hacking GS mechanics together with FE, which is a whole other matter.

edit: The big thing here is what everyone considers important to preserve from each game. I realize what I said about GS and FE mechanics could be applied to anything here, really.

---

Honestly, I think TNS had the best idea for this so far. It keeps the FE mechanics in play but applies GS themes to them.

[Rolina]

I'm not discarding mechanics.  I'm replacing one thing with another which serves the SAME FUNCTION.  IT'S an AESTHETIC DIFFERENCE.  They're LITERALLY THE SAME.  SYNONYM FOR WHAT I JUST SAID.

Edit:  Whatever.  You know what, y'all are the FE brats, you go have fun with that.  I tried to contribute in ways that didn't change ANY of the FE mechanics, but all I got was people telling me off and telling me how stupid my ideas were.  I was TRYING to do this is a way that changed it very, VERY little, so that y'all'd be happy, but nope.  Nobody listens to the mage.  Y'all have fun with this, I hope you like your final product, assuming you ever get off your butts and make it.  See ya, I'm off to play more minecraft.  I could do without people not listening at all to me.

Honestly, thinking that I was giving mages weapons... I may not know much, but I DO know that mages don't have physical attacks in FE... I'm not that stupid, you guys...

[Salanewt]

Some of what you say is true (probably most of it for the Gamebube and Wii), but most of the older games do not have Daggers, nor do they have any Lycanthropes (aside from Manaketes, which usually require a special stone to be able to attack at all). Also, it is not that your ideas are bad or anything, it is just that you have created ideas based on what you have heard or read, not based on what you have played.

Edit: One thing that you missed though, and this might help as a tiny bit of explanation for why we do not favour the scythe = magic idea (I like the weapon idea, just not for magic). Weapons have a limited amount of uses, as do almost all items. For example, an Iron Sword can only be used 40 times before you lose it (and the amount of uses will carry over to later battles, so you will lose it eventually), whereas a Silver Sword has only 20 uses. Scythes as weapons would look cool, but it would be very awkward for it to lose uses when you do only use the weapon as a channel for magic, and you are at most holding it up. The problem does not exist for tomes because that is where the magic energy comes from, and the mage units only control it.

Have a nice day.

[Kain]

GOLDEN SUN GAME using FIRE EMBLEM MECHANICS

GOLDEN SUN GAME

This topic is in General Hacking.

My common sense is tingling.  If this is a Golden Sun game, tell me why it's in GENERAL HACKING.  It's a Fire Emblem game using ideas FROM Golden Sun to make the FE game have a GS theme.  It's still Fire Emblem, you're just putting up new wallpaper.

I'll say it one more time.  Go play Fire Emblem.  You can easily pick up how the system works if you go play it because the game teaches you basic stuff as you play Easy mode.  Not to mention the manual AND the Help box in the game give you advanced tips and better explainations.

Don't want to play it?  Fine.  I can either get you that information or teach it to you myself.  All you need do is ask and I'll explain everything I know about the game.

Laguz are lycanthropic I suppose, but unlike the Manaketes (Or werewolves for that matter.), they do not require any object or anything to transform.  (They actually have a gauge for how long they can stay transformed.)  Manaketes require a certain stone to transform and attack as Sala just said.

On the Wii, clerics do have a physical attack, but it's a counter attack and it doesn't do much damage.

Honestly, thinking that I was giving mages weapons...

You WERE!  A mace IS a weapon and you wanted to give it to one of the mage classes.  You say it wasn't going to be used as a weapon, but it does not change the fact that it IS a weapon and a heavy weapon at that that would be better off being given to a Warrior or Hero unit, someone who could possibly use the thing, let alone LIFT it.

EDIT:  I missed it before, but I love the story you made for Yoshi.  I have to ask though, does he still look like himself or did he turn into a humanoid?  I'm sure most people would freak at the sight of a giant dinosaur.

Also, you said he got an eggstone right, I'm assuming that would give him his attack.  Why not slightly alter it like in other FE titles where you get many different stones (Examples, Manaketes had firestones, dragonstones and holystones.) ?  Watermelon stone lets Yoshi spit seeds or the Pumpkin stone lets Yoshi breath fire.  ^^

[Salanewt]

EDIT:  I missed it before, but I love the story you made for Yoshi.  I have to ask though, does he still look like himself or did he turn into a humanoid?  I'm sure most people would freak at the sight of a giant dinosaur.

Also, you said he got an eggstone right, I'm assuming that would give him his attack.  Why not slightly alter it like in other FE titles where you get many different stones (Examples, Manaketes had firestones, dragonstones and holystones.) ?  Watermelon stone lets Yoshi spit seeds or the Pumpkin stone lets Yoshi breath fire.  ^^

Thanks for the compliment! He is still a Yoshi, but he looks much more peaceful than other animals and people treat him as a pet. As for the Eggstone, it is basically like the dragonstone. However, I also gave him the Anima and Light magic because Manaketes tend to be pretty useless without Dragonstones (and that is also why I used the control enemy glitch in Sacred Stones to give Myrrh dark magic, so I could still use her). I like the idea of the different types of stones though.

Also, I think there was an enemy only stone in Shadow Dragon (not sure about the original or any of the remakes), and it would make them transform into a magic dragon (Magicstone?). I think there was also an Earth Stone, but it was a scripted item that would only work on one unit at the beginning of battle, since it was more like a useless Dummy item on my other Manaketes.

Have a nice day.

[Griever]

Fire Emblem game with a Golden Sun theme .... works for me ><
As for the weapons ..... if the Scyth is added to the game shouldn't it be a physical weapon rather than magic? maces for clerics works for me since most games gives it to them. keep the staff for magic. You can have both dark, light and anima magic cast with it, yes the game have different tomes for magic but if it will have a Golden Sun theme >< that shouldn't really matter ... from my point of view anyway.

Or instead of staff you can add psynergy stones that help casts psynergy, different stones for different psynergy (i think the dragonstone can be used for this but im not really sure) this should solve the whole magic and weapon problems. And to make it better the psynergy stones will have less durability than the tomes had. Fire tome had 40 used if im not mistaken, the psynergy stone can have for example 20 or 15 uses .... and not all of them should be sold in shops, only common ones like the flare, flare wall and flare storm ones for example the rest should be obtainable through chests or drops.

As for the elements. As far as i know or have seen till now...... Water > Fire > Wind > Earth > Water.
But again it can be done different ways ..... (can't seem to think of any at the moment).

Well thats all for now ...... nothing else coming to mind

Sorry Salanewt .... i kinda hate to see Yoshi in Fire Emblem .... (im not a Mario games fan) ... but i kinda liked the idea .....

[Charon]

If Sala's gonna be Yoshi, I want to be myself. If we are going to have ourselves in the game... we should probably be special units that only are recruitable under certain circumstances (like sidestories). Of course we can also open ourselves to unique classes, with unique weapons and all that. (that is, if you want to be a unique class)
I'll go into more detail later (edit button ftw!) but I'll probably be something like this:
[spoiler=stats]
Name: Rachel
Username: Charon the Ferryman
Base Class: Mydrimon (spelling ;-;)
Promotes: (not sure yet)
Affinity: (not sure yet :3)
Level: 5
(stats/growths not finalized, but has higher attack, speed and res. (well for a mya); not sure of everything else yet)

ALSO WE NEED AN AWESOME FREELANCER BUT I HAVE NO IDEA IF THEY'RE IN THE GBABLEMS[/spoiler]

Again I haven't played the GBAblems so I don't know all their quirks, but I have played other FEs and understand most of the jiz.

[Kain]

You're in luck!  Freelancer is indeed a class, but it's only on Shadow Dragon.

What the Freelancer does is: s/he copies another unit. You move him adjacent to an ally, pick transform or whatever it's called, and suddenly you have two of them. So let's say you have Xane target Cain. For the next five turns, you have two Cains, except that one of them is named Xane and is missing a bunch of health. (Xane's personal HP is low; copying gets him his target's max HP, but it doesn't heal him.)

Xane copies stats, class, level, weapon ranks, and even things like 'proficient with Rapier' or 'can pick locks'. He keeps his own inventory, so you'll want to borrow some weapons from your Transform target or plan ahead. He uses his copied level for EXP calculations, but keeps his own stat growth, which is applied to his untransformed base stats; since he can't actually fight when he isn't transformed, levelling him doesn't really matter, though.

After five turns the unit turns back. This happens at the start of your turn, fortunately, so you can just mimic someone again. But they'll need another heal.

So, the main disadvantage is, every fifth turn s/he can't attack and needs a heal. In return for this, you get an extra Unit X, where Unit X is your pick of whatever is in his movement range, and you can change your choice in five turns if you want to. And s/he doesn't even need you to direct any XP their way.

Also, before the Golden Sun theme was even brought up, I thought this WAS going to be a FE hack with personal sprites and all that.  If so, I'm going with good ol' Mercenary Class. ;)

[Charon]

NOOOOOOOO (I'm pretty sure were hackig FE7 or 8) *saddness as freelancers are lulzy and awesome*

We could probably have the users with more normal classes join in more normal ways (like you and me), but Sala's gotta have somethin' special (considering he's a freaking Yoshi XD)

[Kain]

Combat wise, the character looks the same, correct?  All we really need is a field sprite for movement.  Any combat animation can be done by altering an already existing sprite and renaming it.

[Charon]

I'd really love to do the sprites. I have a lot of work for AP art to do, but I'll try to fit that in. :D

[Kain]

While I would normally say use the same sprite from Shadow Dragon, I don't think it would fit visual purposes (What with SD being of higher quality.).  Perhaps an entirely custom sprite?

I've also found a FE Editor. :)  Once my computer is fixed at home, I intend to see what this things all about.

[Salanewt]

Oh yeah, they have a few programs for some of the Fire Emblem games now. Nightmare is useful, but the problem with it is that it was made with modules (so there is more to do with pointer switching than with anything else, but you can change text and stats as far as I know). For graphics, you could probably crack open YY-CHR or something. This was actually going to be my third (?) game to hack, after Link to the Past and Pokemon Sapphire. However, like those and Super Mario World, I have stopped working on them (and also means that I know the basics as to how those games work).

but Sala's gotta have somethin' special (considering he's a freaking Yoshi XD)

Totally fair. In fact, I had an optional dungeon in mind (and after beating it a certain number of times, tada!). Either that, or having a special flag after something that would be really hard to do, like having to rescue a civilian from the boss within 3-5 turns.

NOOOOOOOO (I'm pretty sure were hackig FE7 or 8) *saddness as freelancers are lulzy and awesome*

Yeah. However, to make up for it, there is a class which can produce Phantoms (weak minions that are likely to die quickly, but they are useful for luring).

http://faqsmedia.ign.com/faqs/image/article/763/763387/fire_emblem_8_class_promote.gif  For all of your Sacred Stone's class referencing needs.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Of course, if I can be a Yoshi at all. If not, then I can try crating a human character.

[thenightsshadow]

And I have a list of the classes I was able to hack into FE8, as well as their promotions.

-Edit: Attached-

[Hoopa]

[spoiler=submission]
Character's Name: Akira
Forum Member: Whizkidhv
Character's Class: Apprentice=>Strategist
Character's affinity: Dark

Stats
LV. 1
HP. 16
Dunno about the rest of the stats...

Weapon Levels
Axe: E
Sword: E
Bow: E
Lance: E

Basically proficient at all weapons, but they cap at level C

Starting Inventory

Emblem blade
Emblem axe
Emblem lance
Emblem bow


Background/personality/synopsis (optional):
Cool and calculating. Does not like to lose, and will do anything to save a friend, although he will never admit it.


R-Button Info: An apprentice under the famous tactician Mark.
Death Quote: Haha. I guess my plans weren't so perfect after all... forgive me Mark.

Portrait:
I'm not that good at spriting... it's the best I can do atm.

[/spoiler]

[Rolina]

Some of what you say is true (probably most of it for the Gamebube and Wii), but most of the older games do not have Daggers, nor do they have any Lycanthropes (aside from Manaketes, which usually require a special stone to be able to attack at all). Also, it is not that your ideas are bad or anything, it is just that you have created ideas based on what you have heard or read, not based on what you have played.

Edit: One thing that you missed though, and this might help as a tiny bit of explanation for why we do not favour the scythe = magic idea (I like the weapon idea, just not for magic). Weapons have a limited amount of uses, as do almost all items. For example, an Iron Sword can only be used 40 times before you lose it (and the amount of uses will carry over to later battles, so you will lose it eventually), whereas a Silver Sword has only 20 uses. Scythes as weapons would look cool, but it would be very awkward for it to lose uses when you do only use the weapon as a channel for magic, and you are at most holding it up. The problem does not exist for tomes because that is where the magic energy comes from, and the mage units only control it.

Have a nice day.

Wait, spellbooks don't have a limited number of uses?  I thought they did, just like weapons...  Okay, maybe I can see that, then...

[Salanewt]

Actually, books are limited too (but you are more likely to find one or two enemy-only tomes with infinite uses). Fire is the iron weapon of Anima magic, so it has 40 uses too. It would be a bit odd for a scythe or a mace to lose uses when the magic does not come from it is all that I was saying there.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

...


Clearly we're not on the same page here.  If you really want a GS hack, then that's your option.  If you want to destroy the source, then the mage DIES after 40 uses.  Have fun.