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Class System Hacking Topic

Started by Rolina, 30, December, 2009, 01:25:24 PM

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Rolina

Okay, by far, the greatest problem we've come across in hacking this game seems to be the chaos that the class system turned out to be.  When experimenting with the class editor, please report your findings here.  This way, once we gather as much info as we can, we might be able to make heads or tales of this, and either Atrius will be kind enough to toss out the old one and program a much more user-friendly version via a patch (not likely), or we can find out how to actually manipulate the darned thing (also not likely, but more likely than the first option).

So, here's what I've been testing...

As you all know, I HATE Felix and Sheba, and have been struggling to make them not clones.  So, what did I do?  Previous testing suggested that the top value was a character value or something... Isaac and Felix seemed to be assigned value 1 for their base class, Garet value 2, Ivan and Sheba value 7, and so on...

I figured, all I had to do was swap Felix and Sheba's element levels (turning Felix into a Jupiter Adept and Sheba into a Venus adept) and make mockup base classes for them.  After a bit of work, I tested it...

Felix and Sheba's CLASSES swapped.  Apparently, it's not character values at all.  Now Felix was suffering from Piers Syndrome, only worse, because his base class was a mage now.  And Sheba was promoted to having Jenna Syndrome, being a mage-like character with a bunch of fighter classes.  Totally didn't work.  So I figured:  What happens if I swap Jenna and Sheba's values instead?

Jenna got Ivan's class.  Sheba got GARET'S class.  Interesting.  So I swapped Jenna and Piers this time, thinking that since I'm swapping the two who have unique classes in GS2, they'd get each other's.  Jenna got MIA'S class.  Piers got GARET's class.

Apparently, there's something in the code that is VERY SPECIFIC about how Jenna and Piers have their own unique base classes.  It has nothing to do with character number it seems...  Even by swapping the top value for their original base classes, they were stuck with the GS1 classes.  Apparently, value 13 in the top values refers to ONLY Jenna, and ONLY when she's got nothing but Mars Djinn equipped (likewise with Piers, his classes and mercury djinn, and the value 14).

Edit:  Pinned until we figure this out.  When testing with the editor, make this one of your top priorities, doods.

Zach

#1
Only thing we really have to do now is figure out what the bottom 2 numbers mean (underneath the levels & abilities) and how to separate Felix's and Isaac's class and Sheba's and Ivan's class. Only thing I remember about the bottom 2 numbers is that several classes share the same bottom 2 numbers. Here's a chart showing who shares what:

0 0
---
Water Seer Class Series
Swordsman Class Series (Both)
White and Pure Mage Class
Mariner Class Series
Pierrot Class Series

24 0
----
Seer Class Series (Both)

2312 0
-------
Brute Class Series
Samurai Class Series

3340 0
-------
Guard Class Series
Tamer Class Series

15391 0
--------
Squire Class Series

17177 0
--------
Apprentice/Page Class Series
Ninja Class Series
Flame User Class Series

17696 0
--------
Wind Seer Class Series
Dragoon Class Series
Hermit Class Series

19220 0
--------
Pilgrim Class Series
Ranger Class Series

21783 0
--------
Medium Class Series
Dark Mage Class Series

Only thing we really need to do is piece together the clues to discover an ever better objective

Atrius (He/Him)

One of these days I'll scan through the code and figure out what the unknown values are all about.

Quote... This way, once we gather as much info as we can, we might be able to make heads or tales of this, and either Atrius will be kind enough to toss out the old one and program a much more user-friendly version via a patch (not likely) ...
Not likely?  I wouldn't say the old one needs tossed out completely, but if there's something that can be done to improve it I'm more than willing to.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

Rolina

That idea basically said that you'd remove the old system, replace it with a new, similarly functioning one from scratch, and do all that debugging that goes along with it.  That is a LOT of effort.  Thus, Not Likely.

Aile~♥

The only thing I can suggest is that class values determine who can use the class. I tried changing Pilgrim (wind) around, switching the values to see if I could get it to be available in all stages to both Sheba AND Jenna. Didn't work. I kept getting NPC class.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Zach

#5
Well Jamie, if you were talking about Role, then here's her post (quoted) from a former similar topic with her findings.

Quote from: Role on 22, May, 2009, 05:32:00 AM
Greetings, fellow testers!  As we all know, there's quite a bit of stuff that we don't know what the hell it is.  This is the thread you will use to post your findings as you fiddle with stuff to find out what it is!

Now then, for the purposes of this thread, if something referrers to something character specific (such as in the class editor), don't refer to them by name, but rather by the character number (as seen in the character editor).

Alright, I'll start off with some of my findings in the class editor.


Class editor, top value.
1 = Character 0 and Character 4's base class.
2 = Character 1's base class
6 = Character 3's base class
7 = Character 2 and Character 6's base class.
12 = NPC class
13 = Character 5's base class
14 = Character 7's base class
15 = If Mysterious Card is equipped
16 = If Tamer Whip is equipped
17 = If Necronomicon is equipped.

After swapping values 13 and 9 between the Fire Monk series and Flame User, Character 5's base class was now the Fire Monk series, and after setting 5 fire djinn (I forgot to change the element level requirements for the Flame User series), character 3's class changed to Flame User.

I can tell these are linked to the characters, so what we need to do is figure out the specifics.  There must be a place in the code that says which class values a character can use.  If we could solve this and figure out how exactly it works, we could have 0.3 have a class selection thing in the character editor.  In otherwords, we could have a way to tell which classes a character can use.  VERY useful for making certain characters NOT SUCK due to having crap for class selection, and for taking out duplicate classes.  Not to mention the sheer potential it brings for custom classes.

Link to the previous topic: http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=135.0

To switch class do this (yes, I'm quoting myself)

Quote from: Zach on 08, June, 2009, 10:45:00 PM
Just remember this, when you switch classes, their requirements will swap. Example: I switched Felix's/Isaac's base class with the apprentice class. That makes the apprentice class exclusive and the Squire class available. However, in order to get the Squire class, Felix/Isaac had to equip a jupiter djinni to get the Squire class

Now if you were talking about my post, please do elaborate

Aile~♥

On second thought, it may be possible that the game is checking what elemental Psys they have, and making it available to those characters? Because in my hack, the Pilgrim (wind) class was given Jupiter Psys only until its 3rd stage, at which point it learned the Beam series and Rising Dragon (fire).
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Rolina

Yeah, that was the initial findings... Those values DO have something to do with classes, that's for sure, but apparently it's a LOT more than that.  If it was those values alone, my experiment with Felix and Sheba, swapping their element levels, would have worked.  But for some reason, it... well, didn't.  Instead of having the classes I made for them, they SWAPPED classes (which kind of pissed me off... I worked for a while on those!).  And I mean ALL classes.  I could make Sheba a Brute, and Felix a Pure Mage.  Funny, sure, but not the desired effect.  I was hoping that I could pull that off, and then after more experimenting I could find a way to make it so that we could just change the elemental order of team two in order to create the new classes... No such luck.

Rolina

Well, I found something that we CAN do!  And something that I really, REALLY like.

Item Classes that change depending on what element adept equips them.  That's right...

Let's say you want to make an 'uber attack mage' type class.  It uses the Grand Grimoire class item.  However, it's a MONO ELEMENTAL CLASS - basically, it grows in similar nature to base classes, requiring all of a single elemental djinn.  Here's what I did:

I took the Tomogathericon (class value 17) and made new classes (okay, test classes) for each element.  Each class line has 4 classes in it.  The base element level you need per type is 5, and adding 3 grows it by one.  To test to make sure it grew correctly, I started with the first class in each tier knowing two of the weakest psys.  Each class after that ups by one level for that psy group (so if the class improves, Flare becomes Flare Wall, for example), and the final one gains one more psy.  This shows that the class is progressing properly.  Another interesting thing it does is allow another adept to access the first two classes in any other element by adding between five and nine djinn of another element.

At least, that's what it was in theory.

Best part?  It works in PRACTICE, too!  I tested it, and it worked perfectly - the same item gave four different class progressions!  Worked.  Like.  A.  CHARM! :heart:

If you're going to use an item class in this manner, however, I will recommend AGAINST making it too complex.  If you do that, you'll run out of room for more classes!  So be careful how you approach it.

Still, it's nice to finally have one of these tests actually WORK (even though it was an item class). ^-^

Salanewt

So, Classes have covered psynergy/level requirements, how to get them, djinn requitements, element levels, and stat changes... Is there anything else that classes should influence?

Off topic for a second, is there any way to give someone a permanent psynergy, kind of like how Piers always has Douse? Perhaps it has something to do with base classes? Probably not though.

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Atrius (He/Him)

I still haven't discovered where that happens.
[sprite=220,4,0]I'm shaking my head in general disapproval of everything[/sprite]

Aile~♥

Would you be so kind as to tell me exactly how you did that? I'm trying to do it with the Mysterious Card, but I'm not having any luck.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

I think what Role did was to get the desired item, make the desired classes, and switch the numbers around (with the Mysterious card, the value for those classes would be switched with your new classes, so the item would give you the new classes, instead of the classes which they normally give).

It would still be nice to know how to create new classes without having to change the ones that an item bestows, but I have a feeling that those three items have scripts which enable this?

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Aile~♥

Problem is, I did just that, and am getting ? classes OTHER than the ones I made, despite the fact that the ones I made are the ones with value 15, the value of the Mysterious Card classes.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Salanewt

Hm... Well, sorry then, I can not think of any way to help right now.

What if you list the exact steps you did in order?

Have a nice day.
Oh yeah baby, £ me harder.

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak Adepts stronger.

Yoshi's Lighthouse is a hacking website in progress. Why not check it out if you like Yoshi or the Mario & Luigi games?

Hoopa

I think you have to change the required elemental levels of the first class. For example, the pierrot class has no requirements, so that automatically takes priority over any other class. You have to make it so that the element requirements for that first class is not 0.
"You seek the truth but are you able to handle it? What you find may not be what you expected... and it may ruin you in the end. Knowing that, will you continue onwards in your journey? Or will you give up and return to a life of apathy? The choice is yours..."

Aile~♥

I did, I set the requirements for the original class to 100 for each element. Instead it used the WRONG CLASS!!!
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Hoopa

#17
Strange. You're right. I guess you can't do the same thing with the mysterious card.

I made it work. Check the five ? classes before pierrot. If you were using it on Felix, those spots had the same id as the mysterious card, while having the normal elemental requirements for the squire class. That could be your problem.
"You seek the truth but are you able to handle it? What you find may not be what you expected... and it may ruin you in the end. Knowing that, will you continue onwards in your journey? Or will you give up and return to a life of apathy? The choice is yours..."

Aile~♥

#18
Strange, they aren't there for me, and I also tried it on Sheba with no luck.

Edit: I fixed it! XD I'd created the problem myself XD.
[sprite=16, 6, 0]:P[/sprite]

Lloyd: Easy as pie.
Genis: Sweet!
Presea: ...Sweetie pie...
Zelos: Let's not start on this again...

[spoiler=epic mindscrew][/spoiler]

Hoopa

#19
I just tried it on all the characters, and it works out fine for all of them...

Check to see if you have any ? classes that share the same requirements. Right now, I can see that as being the only reason why it isn't working.
"You seek the truth but are you able to handle it? What you find may not be what you expected... and it may ruin you in the end. Knowing that, will you continue onwards in your journey? Or will you give up and return to a life of apathy? The choice is yours..."