Community Hack?

[Salanewt]

Oh yeah, I like the idea of shape-shifting adepts.

Anyway, I have a minor idea for a cameo idea (not appearance, but idea). I suppose this could be both a Zelda and Golden Sun cameo... A Trading Mini-quest. Basically, this is like the one to get Catastrophe, but much longer. You could probably throw in one of the mushrooms that are already in the game, and maybe change the turtle into a bird. Basically, it is like extending something that is in the game, but has minor, subtle Zelda references (the mushroom and the bird should be easy to remember for some people).

Also, I think (if we have not already) we should start a discussions topic.

Have a nice day.

[Aile~♥]

Mushrooms are kind of a Mario cameo, but birds??? I don't really get it. I've never been much of a Zelda fan though. Are you referencing the bird that Link summons when he uses the Ocarina of Wind in Minish Cap?

[Salanewt]

Nope. Actually, I think I should tell you. The Mushroom (this one) is a reference to the Mushroom that is given to you in the Lost Woods, and the bird is a reference to the Cuccoo(s) that you can get during the trading Mini-quest.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

This Idea sounds like alot fun, I defiantely will help out. Are you planning on making an entirely new set classes or rebalancing the old ones? I would suggest if you plan on doing 8 party members have 4 human adepts and 4 lycanthrope (shape shiffted) adepts.

I don't really agree with this bit.  Choose one or the other - weapons or claws.  If you try to do too much at once, you go from a great concept to a game made of suck.

Here's what I say - either we go with 8 humans, or 8 lycanthropes.  Though I PREFER to work with humans, since I don't dislike how lycans are handled in Golden Sun are handled unlike MOST media (must be born as one, it's not some stupid disease), I'm willing to go that route if, and only if, we're going full-lycan.

Why?  Because they'll have two totally different weapon types.  I think we shouldn't have more than eight, the ones already present within the golden sun series - Axes, Spears (pretty much every guard has one), Long Swords, Light Blades, Scythes (see:  Prox Chicks), Maces, Staffs, and Ankhs.  This is why they're the eight weapons that I focused on in the weapon balancing - they're already present.  Things such as claws, beaks, talons, etc, the weapons that IIRC were mentioned in Garoh as the weapons of choice for lycans, would not only be difficult to implement in terms of sprites, but if used in conjunction with human weapons, we may find ourselves unable to include everything unless we actually REMOVE some human weapon types (for example - restrict human weapons to Axes, Long Swords, Maces, and Staffs).  Not to mention the chaos about which weapons and armor should be made for lycan use.  It involves a lot more work, and in my opinion, if both types are included, it will only serve to water down the final result.


So yeah, one or the other, NOT both.

We should be having new classes, but they should not yet be paired with characters.  Rather, instead of pairing a character with a class, pair them with a build.  This does NOT mean that each character should have their own strange combo of equipment types - Rather, I think we should keep it somewhat simple... 8 Characters, 4 Core Builds.

Sure, you can modify a build for a character...

If Isaac could use Spears, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Scythes
and Garet used Axes, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Maces

And you wanted to make Felix different from Isaac, but thought that Scythes fit him more than Maces due to his Anti-hero status, then you could give him Axes, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Scythes...
Which would leave piers with Spears, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Maces.

Swapping out a pair of weapons for a character is okay, so long as you keep the CORE of the build in tact...  Since the other four characters have mage builds, and you don't want things to get chaotic, it's best if you don't do something crazy like giving Felix Axes, Spears, Maces, and Scythes, which is a totally new build in and of itself.

Most importantly, we need BALANCE in the builds we use.  2 fighters and 2 mages in each team.  But you should have a balanced number of fighters who can equip a certain type of weapon.  I say either 2, or all 4.  Don't give three of them Axes, and leave the last guy out.

[Charon]

@Role - I think 4 lycanthanropes is a bit excessive myself. The problem resides with the fact that wolves are most likely going to be tied with Venus, but there's no unique base class for such, so we'd have some really painful djinn combinations to deal with - I've already had this in trying to add a bird class (Fledgling) so for it to work without some serious class resetup, the Jupiter adepts can only exist through a vigourous transformation upon their own bodies.

A dragon or fish based "animal-human" doesn't have this issue, due to Jenna and Piers having unique base classes.

The weapons issue - they could easily have an exclusive weapon to themselves, but lycanthanropes can still hold things, meaning they can hold weapons as well. Same would apply to bird humans - they would still have fingers (and some games and other works of creativity have done this, but they'd be covered in feathers, and they'd have beaks and talons. Birds would be the most difficult to transfer to the human anatomy, but looks like it's a problem that isn't difficult to solve.

(of course, feel free to add more or suggest something better - this is the community hack, after all)

Good ideas, everyone, especially the "changing parties ideas" from Atrius and the extended trade game from Salanewt.

Say, can you make it so that you gradually gain a back party throughout the story, or is it 100% necessary to have it that they come all at once? That can really limit story ideas, unfortunately.

You know, I was thinking again... trading reminded me of the trade system from several other games (the one that comes to mind is SIII, which in one town you can buy a trading item for about 70 potch and sell it in another for over 10000). Now while we probably couldn't do that much of a difference, we could possibly create a patch that multiplies certain prices by several random values from .5 to 3. Assuming that 5 values are chosen, we could use the item's index number divided by 5, then take it's remainder to determine which items will receive what boost. It would give the player more of an incentive for buying certain goods, such as herbs, nuts and vials, when in the original game they were used mainly as "emergency healing items".

We could all submit a single, subtle cameo of our own. I was thinking a random Lloyd in a certain town would be pretty funny for those who catch him.

[Aile~♥]

Lloyd FTW. But then again, I already have a ToS cameo: the Spinner weapon type.

[Charon]

Actually, a set of two swords as a unique weapon class would be awesome.

By spinner are you refering to Chakram? That's all that comes to mind :p

Also, Greaves would be interesting in a GS game XD

You know, cameos could be attacks as well. Something like, "Pow Hammer", "Hyper Beam" or "Objection" could all be interesting unleashes or rare psynergies.

[Aile~♥]

Marta Lualdi's weapon, the Spinner, from ToS: DotNW. I have added them as a weapon type. The Offence Mage/Ranger character build gets them. Oh, and the name of one of the unleashes is a reference too: Righteous Roar is the name of Marta's Mystic Arte.

[Charon]

DAMN ME AND MY NOT HAVING OF A WII SYNDROME

I should make a cameo topic for us to vote on 10 cameos throughout the game, XD

[Aile~♥]

Actually, I have a Brawl/Pit reference as well: Angel Ring is another name I used for an unleash, and it has about the same effect too.

[Salanewt]

Oh cool. Anyway, the lycanthropes would be okay to have... But only maybe one or two (if any at all). As Role first stated, it should be one or the other, but it could be neat to have that one odd character if it is so desired.

Anyway, Role...

If Isaac could use Spears, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Scythes
and Garet used Axes, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Maces

And you wanted to make Felix different from Isaac, but thought that Scythes fit him more than Maces due to his Anti-hero status, then you could give him Axes, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Scythes...
Which would leave piers with Spears, Long Swords, Light Blades, and Maces.

Where did Garet come from?

Have a nice day everyone!

[Aile~♥]

That wasn't nice Salanewt. You shouldn't be so mean to people! Especially Garet, he has feelings too! XD

[Atrius (He/Him)]

Say, can you make it so that you gradually gain a back party throughout the story, or is it 100% necessary to have it that they come all at once? That can really limit story ideas, unfortunately.

Theoretically, we should be able to add/remove party members at will with script editing.

[Aile~♥]

That's nice to know, but then again: "The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is none."

[Salanewt]

Ah, lol Jamie, lol...

Anyway, how was I being mean to Garet?

Have a nice day.

[Charon]

Say, can you make it so that you gradually gain a back party throughout the story, or is it 100% necessary to have it that they come all at once? That can really limit story ideas, unfortunately.

Theoretically, we should be able to add/remove party members at will with script editing.

I pretty much assumed as much - I was more worried about having 5-7 characters causing some kind of unforeseen issue.

By the way, Atrius, was that spritesheet of an original character or a cameo character? I couldn't recognize him XD

[Salanewt]

Oh, did you say Spritesheet? Oh yes, I had forgotten about it... Perhaps...

Have a nice day.

Hm... So, when are we going to decide who gets to work in each section? Are we going to do a tally sort of thing where people just post what they want and the first person to suggest something gets it, or will it be a poll, or... ?

Have a nice day.

[Ehic]

Good point Role on the weapon balancing. I don't think we should worry about cameos till after we get the core of the game down. I think it story wise it make more sense to have your party grow gradually, but gameplay wise it makes more sense to have symmetry in the party and have four join later.

[Salanewt]

That does make sense, but the story could most likely be extended if each party member joins at a different time (comparing it to some of the characters that already exist, replacing Garet with Kraden...).

Lets say that once you have a full party of 4 (Felix, Jenna, Sheba, Piers), another person wants to join. Perhaps... Ivan. Well, it might be odd to have 5 members. If the game makes it so when the first party is defeated, it brings up the one member. That would be a bit strange. So, perhaps Kraden joins while the script that makes Ivan join is active. This way, you have an even party of 6, and then the next two can come later.

Besides, you basically start with three people, get one more, and then four more. You should be able to get characters separately. Perhaps a game that starts with only one person? A script then activates for when that person first dies (probably better to be a scripted battle). However, this script brings them to the nearest town, where there is someone else waiting...

And these are some ideas brought to you by Salanewt.

Have a nice day.

[Rolina]

Good point Role on the weapon balancing. I don't think we should worry about cameos till after we get the core of the game down. I think it story wise it make more sense to have your party grow gradually, but gameplay wise it makes more sense to have symmetry in the party and have four join later.

Yeah... if we mix in Lycan weapons, it'll get too difficult to find the right balance of things, unleess you make a corresponding Lycan weapon for every Human weapon.  And to be honest, that's gonna take a LOT of work, and I REALLY don't wanna have to go though it.

It's best to keep things simple, yet effective, just like the original GS did it.  That's why either All Humans or All Lycans... for PCs, that is.

Also, I think we should split the story into three parts -- Part one has one party, part two has the second party, and part three is when they meet up and join forces.  Kind of like how Suikoden III did it, and in a similar example, GS2.  UNLIKE GS2, though, I think they should still all have important roles, and that you should have a solid third of the game left (or, since Team 1 and Team 2's journeys occurred at the same time, the second HALF of the game.)